What has she done for the X-Men. Really

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#1 Posted by time (4970 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma Frost is a popular character. I would like know what she done for  the X-Men to make her that popular. Apart from being X-Men playboy poster girl? What has she done? I like her in Morrison & Joss Whedon run. That's it. Whether your a fan of her not, how does she compared to rest. A lot of people try to compare her to storm, which I find strange considering how long storm has been with X-Men. If you a fan of her or not, I would like to know what  you think?. 

#2 Posted by Shadowdoggy (3815 posts) - - Show Bio

well, for one, when she looked to back to her morally ambiguous ways, working with the Cabal and Norman Osborne, we found out that the only reason she went along with it was to get Prof X back and help bring Norman down  
when she COULD have turned coat again and would have easily been promised a HUGE piece of the pie, she was actually on the side of good the whole time 
well.....on the side of mutants, which is good in that context 
also 
she has done a lot of the younger mutants on Utopia (and at the academy before utopia) 
she's slutty and mean and rude and brash and very rarely nice.......but she's still looking out for the good guys when it comes down to it
#3 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio

she has done plenty for her students and as Headmistress thats what she is supposed to do

#4 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3531 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she made the X-Men more human; she is a very flawed character, and with characters like Storm, Wolverine and Jean Grey/Phoenix, they can sometimes be so heroic that they can be annoying for some to read (ie speeches every other limited series and victims of writers messing with personalities/power levels to fit a given story). Because she has moments of selfishness, nobility and arrogance balanced with intelligence, good powers and attractiveness, she balances out the cast with some fun. Morrison did a lot of good to use her to inject some humor into the storylines.
 
In  terms of the story, she is a shrewd businesswoman, and I think she is believable as a person that could keep the X-Men running after Xavier and his family fortunes were taken away. Especially with her background as the headmistress of The Massachusetts Academy from the Hellions/New Mutants and Generation X era. She really does seem to have reformed.

#5 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10321 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Emma and I think she adds value to the X-Men, mainly as an uber powerful telepath, and that has come in handy on a number of occasions, like when she blocked Sinister's Tp or stalemating Exodus's TP during Messiah Complex. I think she also makes the stories more interesting, especially with the conflicts she has with the veteran team members, like Storm, Logan and Kitty.

#6 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio

you know what i'm sure a real Emma fan will come by soon, and they will tell you

#7 Posted by Son Of Storm (11283 posts) - - Show Bio
@THUNDERBOLT30 said:
" I like Emma and I think she adds value to the X-Men, mainly as an uber powerful telepath, and that has come in handy on a number of occasions, like when she blocked Sinister's Tp or stalemating Exodus's TP during Messiah Complex. I think she also makes the stories more interesting, especially with the conflicts she has with the veteran team members, like Storm, Logan and Kitty. "
AND she brings a class to the X-men that no one else can. At least she used to.
#8 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio

Before Fraction wrecked her?  
  
@Son Of Storm said:

" @THUNDERBOLT30 said:
" I like Emma and I think she adds value to the X-Men, mainly as an uber powerful telepath, and that has come in handy on a number of occasions, like when she blocked Sinister's Tp or stalemating Exodus's TP during Messiah Complex. I think she also makes the stories more interesting, especially with the conflicts she has with the veteran team members, like Storm, Logan and Kitty. "
AND she brings a class to the X-men that no one else can. At least she used to. "
Agreed.
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#9 Posted by Son Of Storm (11283 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress
YES!
#10 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm: I HATE him. 
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#11 Posted by Son Of Storm (11283 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm: I HATE him.  "
You are not alone. I don't understand how he can be so good in Iron and be complete rubbish in Uncanny.
#12 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm: I HATE him.  "
You are not alone. I don't understand how he can be so good in Iron and be complete rubbish in Uncanny. "
I don't either. He sucks at keeping track of continuity and a lot of his characterizations (read Emma) are abysmal at best. 
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#13 Posted by Son Of Storm (11283 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm: I HATE him.  "
You are not alone. I don't understand how he can be so good in Iron and be complete rubbish in Uncanny. "
I don't either. He sucks at keeping track of continuity and a lot of his characterizations (read Emma) are abysmal at best.  "
I say we gather him and Land up for a good old smiting!
#14 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son Of Storm said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm: I HATE him.  "
You are not alone. I don't understand how he can be so good in Iron and be complete rubbish in Uncanny. "
I don't either. He sucks at keeping track of continuity and a lot of his characterizations (read Emma) are abysmal at best.  "
I say we gather him and Land up for a good old smiting! "
I'm so in!
Moderator
#15 Posted by Son Of Storm (11283 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

" @Son Of Storm said:

" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Son Of Storm: I HATE him.  "
You are not alone. I don't understand how he can be so good in Iron and be complete rubbish in Uncanny. "
I don't either. He sucks at keeping track of continuity and a lot of his characterizations (read Emma) are abysmal at best.  "
I say we gather him and Land up for a good old smiting! "
I'm so in! "
 
#16 Edited by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma's one of my fave characters and she has done alot. As people say she is a flawed character and kinda made the x-men more relateable in a sense. Getting over your own problems. Fighting personal demons. She adds a strong female lead since Jean left and Storm is either with the x-men or in wakanda so someone has to take over incase. She acts as a witty character with snarky comments and an attitude to boot. She cares for her students and fellow x-men even if she doesn't like to show that side sometimes. And i hate to admit it but just for the people who think she is a villain deep down, that keeps them reading just waiting for a change ( even though it most likely wont happen). She is a powerful addition to the team in TP and has proven a valuable member more than once often as a necessity more than anything. Emma is the diamond of the x-men. 
 
-GS

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#17 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
" Emma's one of my fave characters and she has done alot. As people say she is a flawed character and kinda made the x-men more relateable in a sense. Getting over your own problems. Fighting personal demons. She adds a strong female lead since Jean left and Storm is either with the x-men or in wakanda so someone has to take over incase. She acts as a witty character with snarky comments and an attitude to boot. She cares for her students and fellow x-men even if she doesn't like to show that side sometimes. And i hate to admit it but just for the people who think she is a villain deep down, that keeps them reading just waiting for a change ( even though it most likely wont happen). She is a powerful addition to the team in TP and has proven a valuable member more than once often as a necessity more than anything. Emma is the diamond of the x-men. "
You win so hard.
Moderator
#18 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @god_spawn said:
" Emma's one of my fave characters and she has done alot. As people say she is a flawed character and kinda made the x-men more relateable in a sense. Getting over your own problems. Fighting personal demons. She adds a strong female lead since Jean left and Storm is either with the x-men or in wakanda so someone has to take over incase. She acts as a witty character with snarky comments and an attitude to boot. She cares for her students and fellow x-men even if she doesn't like to show that side sometimes. And i hate to admit it but just for the people who think she is a villain deep down, that keeps them reading just waiting for a change ( even though it most likely wont happen). She is a powerful addition to the team in TP and has proven a valuable member more than once often as a necessity more than anything. Emma is the diamond of the x-men. "
You win so hard. "

lol thx huntress but its all true :)
Moderator
#19 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @god_spawn said:
" Emma's one of my fave characters and she has done alot. As people say she is a flawed character and kinda made the x-men more relateable in a sense. Getting over your own problems. Fighting personal demons. She adds a strong female lead since Jean left and Storm is either with the x-men or in wakanda so someone has to take over incase. She acts as a witty character with snarky comments and an attitude to boot. She cares for her students and fellow x-men even if she doesn't like to show that side sometimes. And i hate to admit it but just for the people who think she is a villain deep down, that keeps them reading just waiting for a change ( even though it most likely wont happen). She is a powerful addition to the team in TP and has proven a valuable member more than once often as a necessity more than anything. Emma is the diamond of the x-men. "
You win so hard. "
lol thx huntress but its all true :) "
Which is why it wins. ^_^
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#20 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
@time: Time, i've missed your threads <3
 
I don't think her fandom comes from how giving she is with her teammates though... so I kind of don't understand what you're looking for?
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#21 Edited by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

She is just a really controversial character if you think about it. Love her or hate her,  she deserves alot more credit than people seem to give her. 
 
-GS
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#22 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that God_Spawn basically hit the nail on the head with Emma.  
 
But I surpose this same question can be asked about any of the X-Men, single handedly what has each of the x-men really contributed to the team?

#23 Edited by SC (12966 posts) - - Show Bio
Within the confines of story:  Aided X-Men though her efforts alongside Banshee in Generation X. She is rich and the CEO of her own Business, so she no doubt financially aids X-Men directly and indirectly. Neutralized Cassandra Nova at a particular critical moment, and she has been instrumental in many other of there crucial battles in recent times or extremely significant etc. Against Sinister, Exodus, Dark Avengers, and the Sisterhood and not necessarily X-Men per say, but for many individual X-Characters she has aided a lot, X-23, Pixie, how she dealt with Kimura, etc plus I am not sure what longevity has on the bearing of actions and quality of those actions? Or the ways one could and should measure those things against each other? Some complicated ways to compare characters. Oh I forget, she managed to keep X-Men out of the mess that was Civil War really, will anyone forget her epic words towards Ms Marvel either? 
 
Within the greater context of X-Men as a brand/franchise: She adds yet another strong and distinctive female personality to a franchise that runs on them. X-Men has never quite had a character like Emma Frost though, she is considerably more narcissistic than any of them, and embraces her intelligence and wit much more than most of them as well, humility is for people that don't realize how screwed up the world is (and can't read the thoughts of people around them) and she owns her own sexual confidence. Its such an easy and cheap criticism of woman and men who independently and consciously choose how to dress and what to value and what to like, to accuse them of pandering to a generalized audience or judging them in similar ways, and there is no mistaking how intelligent and aware and independent Emma is, and so she is quite a cool character in that respect. Plus she has actually grown as a character. Rogue was never really that big of a villain and she was quite young and manipulated by her foster mum Mystique. Emma, eh, she actually learnt the hard way, though life experiences. There are lots of other ways she differs to other X-Females, and X-Characters, and that variety is welcome and appreciated and brings even more fans to the X-Men. Her addition to their ranks, makes them a better team. She explores and illustrates intelligence, confidence, wit, sticking up for yourself and more, and oh, I forget, she added a healthy amount of edge to the X-Men for a while there. Its all good being all lovely dovely and heroic among friends, how you work with your enemies to achieve goals that you both happen to share? Different story. Emma's goals have always been heroic, just not her ways to achieve them. At least formerly. She's getting there now. 
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#24 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Awsome lol
#25 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89 said:
"I think that God_Spawn basically hit the nail on the head with Emma.   But I surpose this same question can be asked about any of the X-Men, single handedly what has each of the x-men really contributed to the team? "

That is actually really true. The thing i like the most about the X-men is that they are a family, but i take the sense to think about what each one does personally for the team and if one of them leaves or dies or goes away the entire team will shaken. Every character just seems to have a part to play and the writers make it so it works well. Take Curse of the Mutants for example, when they turned wolverine he was coming attack the other X-men. If he left the team, they lose a trainer, a powerhouse ( maybe not strength wise but as wolverine is built as an anti-brick) . They lose a father figure to the likes or rogue, kitty, nightcrawler and such. X-men does a good way to root the characters into the team so and thats a reason it's my fave comics.
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#26 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

   She tried to help out Rogue and Gambit's relationship. It was a good try until Mystique posed as fox.  They won’t be in speaking terms for a long while.  
 

Mystique as Foxx


 

#27 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO? nothing, she's just a rude snotty  SNOB :D but toeach-hisown
 
Edited by Pixelized

#28 Posted by The Impersonator (5383 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma Frost is a valuable asset to the X-Men even though at times she finds herself having to choose sides between the Hellfire Club or the X-Men team.

#29 Posted by iLLituracy (13537 posts) - - Show Bio

Has "have a nice rack" been added to the list? Because that helps team morale, I'd wager. 

#30 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL @ Pix. ^_^ 
 
@iLLituracy: -__- 

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#31 Posted by iLLituracy (13537 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress: ...whut?
#32 Posted by SC (12966 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:  Thanks ^_^ 
 
@Hazlenaut:
 Oh yeah nice one, how could I forget how nice and helpful she was to one of my other favorite characters! 
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#33 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Impersonator said:
"Emma Frost is a valuable asset to the X-Men even though at times she finds herself having to choose sides between the Hellfire Club or the X-Men team. "

 i agree with the beginning but idk about the second part i disagree she hasnt done anything with the hellfire club in recent memory, but i could be wrong.
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#34 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn:   The only recent thing i can think of was with Rachel when they were in the casino and she kind of took her title of White Queen back from Courtney Ross.
#35 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:
How long ago was it? I couldve missed something
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#36 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

It was before House of M (by the way does that mean technically she is still the White Queen)

#37 Edited by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:
Idk to be honest if she is still the White Queen of the Hellfire Club but i doubt it. but house of M was a few a years ago and her mutant alias should still be called the white queen though, and  i meant something in recent like in the last year if she did anything with the hellfire club.
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#38 Posted by Shadowdoggy (3815 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think being such a focal part of the X-Men sort of would have to put the kibosh on her abiltiy to also lead a secret underground organization of elite mutants who wear knickerbockers 
and she has Sebastian Shaw in custody on Utopia 
that's got to have ramifications of her standing within the club 
but she'll always be the White Queen to me 
#39 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadowdoggy: @god_spawn:   Only reason i asked was because she had a card game basically over the title with Courtney Ross and Emma won thats why i thought she was still the White Queen even if in title only.  But i do like that she still uses the name it just shows where she has come from and she isn't ashamed to acknowledge it
#40 Posted by SC (12966 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:  I like that as well. Its like she is the owner of the name and title, its a part of her and no one can try and take that away. Its a good thing she didn't have a title like Mr Sinister or Apocalypse. Could you imagine if they started the school back up and either of those villains were on the side of Warren Worthington (aka Angels)  
 
"Good morning class, I am your headmaster Professor X, let me introduce you to your new Gym Teacher Apocalypse, after he whips you into physical shape, your biology class with Mr Sinister will begin, and students, please stop calling Mr Wolverine Badger, he may look tough, but I can tell you as a telepath, that he is crying on the inside, thank you, head to class now, assembly is Disassembled, hehe get it?" 
 
"Boo, Xavier your jokes suck"  
 
Xavier - *shuts down students mental functioning, the same way he did Magneto* 
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#41 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC:   She does own the title and it too ingrained into her character for it too be any other way.  When i think of the White Queen I automatically think Emma, not Courtney or Adrienne, or Ms Saville.  Emma is through and through the White Queen, even if in name only.
#42 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:
It's her alias, and it always has been, she might have been the White Queen of the hellfire club at first but now she is the White Queen of the X-men.
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#43 Posted by Shadowdoggy (3815 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:
you know what I love about your avatar? 
it's that, at first glance, it looks like Emma is holding Scott's head and pushing it down into her decolletage 
it's just the way the light is hitting his hair 
but it made me laugh
#44 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn:   True, but in uncanny x-men 452 Courtney Ross says that Emma "quit" the club to which Emma replies "did I?"  so i think she is still the White Queen of the Hellfire Club
#45 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:
true and i doubt they would make two white queens though, im just saying she hasnt really had any direct involvement in a few years with the hellfire club as you said earlier your example was pre M day so a few years and im saying she  has been more stable with the x-men in recent times but Emma will always be the White Queen, i completely agree it is ingrained in her character, for example is magneto, he was always a villain to the x-men but his name in the x-men is still magneto. They are not gonna just strip titles off the characters.
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#46 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadowdoggy:   Lol it does look a little odd  
 
@god_spawn: true.   
 
BTW just as a side note, is anyone thinking that they should have made the Emma + Shaw story in Uncanny a separate arc? Im really looking forward to the next issue just for their interaction and too see how Emma gets out of this one.
#47 Posted by Shadowdoggy (3815 posts) - - Show Bio
@uncanny89:
not odd- awesome
#48 Posted by uncanny89 (821 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadowdoggy: Lol,  i never said it wasnt :P
#49 Edited by antiterra (168 posts) - - Show Bio

When I got back into comics and hunted down past issues of the X-books, Emma quickly became one of my favourite characters because of how different she was, how she didn't quite fit in with the X-Men mould. I liked how she challenged everyone around her, how she saw shades of grey that the X-Men were often blind to, how she pushed Cyclops and made him grow more than Xavier or Jean ever could - who would've thought he could become such a convincing, undisputed and frankly badass leader?

One of the reasons that many writers struggle with her - and why I like her so much - is quite simply that she is a damn smart lady. Her ability to get into other people's heads hinges more on her intelligence and psychological finesse than on telepathy. However, for a writer, it's always easier to write a wisecracking powerhouse than a genuinely clever character who doesn't have visually impressive powers to show off. For Emma to shine, she needs someone capable of writing... well, "clever stuff" for her to do.


Another crucial aspect of her character - maybe my favourite thing about her - is how fiercely protective she is of the younger mutants, be they Hellions, Cuckoos or just students. There's a scene in New X-Men 150 where she holds a dying Esme in her arms and tells her that she's "especially most proud of [her]." That single scene - that single panel -  says more about Emma than an entire essay could. That scene was devastating for many reasons, but mostly, it hit me like a freight train how much Emma saw herself and her own insecurities in Esme. The renegade, traitorous Cuckoo, who had broken away from her sister to affirm herself as an individual, was simultaneously one of Emma's biggest successes and biggest failures. All the ambivalence of the character and her whole view of "good" and "evil" were perfectly summed up in that panel.


Those insecurities are the third element that good writers know how to draw upon - and that others overlook all the time, focusing solely on her confident exterior instead.

It's those insecurities that led her to submit herself body and soul to Sebastian Shaw, to let herself be shaped by him. And since she broke free of him, the arrogance, the narcissism and the constant sarcasm feel like the counter-reaction to that: it's almost as though she dares others to like her, she won't beg for acceptance, she won't make herself likeable, she won't bow down to anybody ever again. And those insecurities extend to her own judgement, prompting her to enlist Kitty Pryde, of all people, as her reluctant conscience. To me, the Emma/Kitty relationship is one of the best (and most overlooked) in X-Men history.


She's certainly one of the most difficult X-Men to write. Many writers just go, "Ice bitch, got it" and ignore everything that's under the surface.

As much as I like Fraction on Invincible Iron Man, he either didn't do his research or he simply doesn't get her. We'll see how Kieron Gillen does with her: I sincerely wish him the best of luck, because it's been ages since I've read a good Emma Frost. I've started re-reading Whedon/Cassaday's AXM and... wow, I'd forgotten just how brilliant, complex and poignant Emma can be. "With all my predator's art." Perfect writing and perfect art.

Remember when the X-Men were about the characters? Good times...

#50 Posted by Mercy_ (92685 posts) - - Show Bio
@antiterra You win so hard.
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