Emma Frost is a fictional character originating from Marvel Comics. Originally starting off as a super villain and enemy of the X-Men, during which she was the White Queen of the Hellfire Club, Emma Frost is a powerful mutant telepath who can transform herself into organic diamond. She has become a prominent member of the X-Men. A gifted teacher, Emma is renowned for her beauty, wit, and sense of fashion.
The scarlet witch beating the phoenix five this is not acceptable WHY IS SHE EVEN BACK...HOW IS SHE EVEN BACK ! the there is no way magik should have gotten beaten nor namor and EMMA ? really someone please clear this up why is she back I was enjoying everything until that psycho returned and why is Emma kissing Namor Jeez this cant be good I love Emma And Scott together I dislike Namor so much he chases EVERYONES wife and is pathetic !
.......This is the second time today I have to declare Pis shenanigans, used to be that I did that once every month or 2........What are comics coming to?
Isn't the Phoenix force supposed to be weak against chaos magic or whatever?
They said in an interview she has a connection to the PF making her able to affect them. They also said Iron Fist's K'un lun has a connection to the PF as well.
Isn't the Phoenix force supposed to be weak against chaos magic or whatever?
They said in an interview she has a connection to the PF making her able to affect them. They also said Iron Fist's K'un lun has a connection to the PF as well.
Next Captain America will have a "connection", then he'll beat up the Phoenix Force with his shield. Marvel has ran dry out of ideas.
The scarlet witch beating the phoenix five this is not acceptable WHY IS SHE EVEN BACK...HOW IS SHE EVEN BACK ! the there is no way magik should have gotten beaten nor namor and EMMA ? really someone please clear this up why is she back I was enjoying everything until that psycho returned and why is Emma kissing Namor Jeez this cant be good I love Emma And Scott together I dislike Namor so much he chases EVERYONES wife and is pathetic !
She has some connection the PF. This is why she was able to hurt Scott, hurt Magik and so on.
And Emma was manipulating Namor. She knows Namor has a thing for her and is using him as a means to her own ends since her and Scott have conflicting views right now. She's manipulative and I like they are showing that side of her, especially doing it to Namor. The only thing that bugs me is I think this is foreshadowing Emma being the most corrupted P5, hence why she ends up fighting Scott. I think it's stupid she becomes the most since she in the only telepath.
Isn't the Phoenix force supposed to be weak against chaos magic or whatever?
They said in an interview she has a connection to the PF making her able to affect them. They also said Iron Fist's K'un lun has a connection to the PF as well.
Next Captain America will have a "connection", then he'll beat up the Phoenix Force with his shield. Marvel has ran dry out of ideas.
^this.
Although.. I like Scarlett coming back.. the entire story is already full of PIS.. why not make it more fun?
Well, Scarlet Witch is does have the power to alter all of reality. Dr. Strange said that she altered the fabric of magic throughout the entire universe. Which begs the question of why the Avengers are coming down so hard on Hope while ignoring Wanda despite the fact that she's just as dangerous and unstable as the Phoenix Force. The fact that they're using her to protect Hope is even more insane since Hope can copy the powers of other mutants. Although it does make me wonder what would happen if Hope is possessed by the Phoenix Force and uses Wanda's powers at the same time. Maybe that's how they'll bring back the mutant race or nuke the universe.
Magik should be able to defeat scarlet witch fairly easily because her sword can be lethal to magic stuff.
If the PF powers up mutant powers, then Magik should be able to control time.Doctor Strange said if she was more skilled, than she can control time. She would be like zoom,and he's unstoppable.
The scarlet witch beating the phoenix five this is not acceptable WHY IS SHE EVEN BACK...HOW IS SHE EVEN BACK ! the there is no way magik should have gotten beaten nor namor and EMMA ? really someone please clear this up why is she back I was enjoying everything until that psycho returned and why is Emma kissing Namor Jeez this cant be good I love Emma And Scott together I dislike Namor so much he chases EVERYONES wife and is pathetic !
She has some connection the PF. This is why she was able to hurt Scott, hurt Magik and so on.
And Emma was manipulating Namor. She knows Namor has a thing for her and is using him as a means to her own ends since her and Scott have conflicting views right now. She's manipulative and I like they are showing that side of her, especially doing it to Namor. The only thing that bugs me is I think this is foreshadowing Emma being the most corrupted P5, hence why she ends up fighting Scott. I think it's stupid she becomes the most since she in the only telepath.
I never really saw it in that sense. That being a telepath would make you stronger against the corruption of the Phoenix Force, I mean sure the PF normally takes a telepath as its host but that just seems to me as the PF homing in on a signal in this case the signals are telepaths. I think the whole prevention on corruption is more on the persons willpower as opposed to the power they already posses.
Tony confirmed that their energies were connected in some way , and whenever she was in the presence of the P5 , her hex fields shot up . That's the reason why Cyclops , Magik and Namor were affected the way they were .
This K,un Lun bull.... better make sense in the end and where the hell where they when jean had the phoenix. There's more then wanda's return to be pissed at marvel for unimaginative bastards.
Scarlet Witch Vs the Nexus of Creation...you'd think it would be a clear outcome. But no, Marvel needs some way to stop the five Dark Phoenixes (because you *know* it's coming!) and Hope is such a poor copy of Jean, she'll need some help. So lets redeem the psycho with unimaginable power (at what point did Wanda become sooo ^&#@ing powerful?! I never liked the character, so I never paid her much attention.) and solve the Phoenix problem in one swoop. I can only hope that Hope is vaporized when this is all said and done. HATE Hope.
Also, how is the Phoenix Five aren't as powerful as any other Phoenix hosts? In 'Endsong', the Shi'ar agents said 'What is a fraction of infinity?' Or something to that effect. The Cuckoos had a fraction of the Phoenix and they stopped time!
I believe each phoenix has potential to be as strong as a whole. Phoenix's power is unlimited, their power is life itself. They don't get weaker just because the phoenix force gets divided into 5 pieces. People seem to underestimate Wanda. Her power is amped up by the life force and her chaos magic allow her to affect the whole multi-verse. She's a Nexus being, so it's possible for her to rival phoenix. Both Phoenix and Wanda are strong in their own rights. HOM should demonstrate how powerful she is.
I have take issue with Emma turning into the new Dark Phoenix. Emma's main weapon is her will. She out of the entire group should fall to the corruption last, if at all. The Phoenix has stolen much from her and she's has a personal vendetta against it. She's been possessed before. It's not as if this is her first time with the power. If anything she should be supremely aware of the Phoenix's corrupting effect and be taking steps to halt or hobble it. This is frustrating. Why does Scott need to be the perfect superhero and everyone else is just writer cannon fodder in this story. If she turns into the Dark Phoenix and dies I will be monstrously angry.
@joshmightbe: True but it's not the return to villainy that bothers me. It's the idea that Emma, who has more experience with the force than any other PF5 member is falling to its corruption. Also she's spent a great deal of time redeeming herself. It seems a tad silly that she's returning to old habits so easily. And what happened to her vendetta against the Phoenix? Also, this story just feels like another shining moment for Cyclops and that is also irritating.
I have take issue with Emma turning into the new Dark Phoenix. Emma's main weapon is her will. She out of the entire group should fall to the corruption last, if at all. The Phoenix has stolen much from her and she's has a personal vendetta against it. She's been possessed before. It's not as if this is her first time with the power. If anything she should be supremely aware of the Phoenix's corrupting effect and be taking steps to halt or hobble it. This is frustrating. Why does Scott need to be the perfect superhero and everyone else is just writer cannon fodder in this story. If she turns into the Dark Phoenix and dies I will be monstrously angry.
Thank you. If she dies I will be devastated. She has been one of my favourite characters since forever, and her will is a main weapon she has. Ugh. These writers are ridiculous. Lets just hope she doesn't get slaughtered off.
Well, Scarlet Witch is does have the power to alter all of reality. Dr. Strange said that she altered the fabric of magic throughout the entire universe. Which begs the question of why the Avengers are coming down so hard on Hope while ignoring Wanda despite the fact that she's just as dangerous and unstable as the Phoenix Force. The fact that they're using her to protect Hope is even more insane since Hope can copy the powers of other mutants. Although it does make me wonder what would happen if Hope is possessed by the Phoenix Force and uses Wanda's powers at the same time. Maybe that's how they'll bring back the mutant race or nuke the universe.
cool
@AgeofHurricane said:
Wanda Maximoff is an idiot.
/thread.
because all she seems to do is try to protect children ie young avengers/childrens crusade or protecting hope summers
@joshmightbe: True but it's not the return to villainy that bothers me. It's the idea that Emma, who has more experience with the force than any other PF5 member is falling to its corruption. Also she's spent a great deal of time redeeming herself. It seems a tad silly that she's returning to old habits so easily. And what happened to her vendetta against the Phoenix? Also, this story just feels like another shining moment for Cyclops and that is also irritating.
Agreed she swore she would repay jean or the phoenix for the loss of her clone daughters in war song iirc.
Well, Scarlet Witch is does have the power to alter all of reality. Dr. Strange said that she altered the fabric of magic throughout the entire universe. Which begs the question of why the Avengers are coming down so hard on Hope while ignoring Wanda despite the fact that she's just as dangerous and unstable as the Phoenix Force. The fact that they're using her to protect Hope is even more insane since Hope can copy the powers of other mutants. Although it does make me wonder what would happen if Hope is possessed by the Phoenix Force and uses Wanda's powers at the same time. Maybe that's how they'll bring back the mutant race or nuke the universe.
Wanda did what she did in HoM , because of the Life-Force . What she is doing to the P5 as of now , is because of some mysterious connection between her energies and the Phoenix Force . In the P5's presence , her hex fields shoot up to the nth degree .
Apart from these plot based external power-ups , she is nowhere near as powerful as you're trying to suggest . She's not even the most powerful mutant on Earth .She doesn't even come close . In the early issues of AVX , she had her hands full with MODOK alone .
Wanda did what she did in HoM , because of the Life-Force . What she is doing to the P5 as of now , is because of some mysterious connection between her energies and the Phoenix Force . In the P5's presence , her hex fields shoot up to the nth degree .
Apart from these plot based external power-ups , she is nowhere near as powerful as you're trying to suggest . She's not even the most powerful mutant on Earth .She doesn't even come close . In the early issues of AVX , she had her hands full with MODOK alone .
The explanations for her powers are so convoluted that I don't think they ever said that she lost those powers or how much of it was due to her mutant ability to use Chaos Magic.
As for her having trouble against MODOK, inconsistencies are pretty common. Heck, look at the way Hope is drawn, she looks like she's 10 years old. You also have Emma being hurt by the sentinel in Avengers Academy. Then there's how they make a point about the Phoenix Force giving them an always on telepathy with a huge range but then why don't they just read the minds of the Avengers to find Hope or read the minds of the world's population to see if they want them to create their Utopia? And there's how they haven't even bothered to do the one thing that they wanted to use the Phoenix Force for, restarting the mutant race.
Plus the Avengers already made the assumption that Wanda was that powerful even before they found out that she had a connection with the Phoenix Force. Even Wanda herself still seems to thinks that she's that powerful.
Riiiiiiight!?!? I wish after magik said the word die! She died =] And I know it hurts me to see because I love Scott and I love Scott and Emma because jean would get with wolvy and it pissed me off. But the thing about namor is that he's namor. People's wives chase him! He just leaves the trail of rose petals.
Wanda did what she did in HoM , because of the Life-Force . What she is doing to the P5 as of now , is because of some mysterious connection between her energies and the Phoenix Force . In the P5's presence , her hex fields shoot up to the nth degree .
Apart from these plot based external power-ups , she is nowhere near as powerful as you're trying to suggest . She's not even the most powerful mutant on Earth .She doesn't even come close . In the early issues of AVX , she had her hands full with MODOK alone .
The explanations for her powers are so convoluted that I don't think they ever said that she lost those powers or how much of it was due to her mutant ability to use Chaos Magic.
As for her having trouble against MODOK, inconsistencies are pretty common. Heck, look at the way Hope is drawn, she looks like she's 10 years old. You also have Emma being hurt by the sentinel in Avengers Academy. Then there's how they make a point about the Phoenix Force giving them an always on telepathy with a huge range but then why don't they just read the minds of the Avengers to find Hope or read the minds of the world's population to see if they want them to create their Utopia? And there's how they haven't even bothered to do the one thing that they wanted to use the Phoenix Force for, restarting the mutant race.
Plus the Avengers already made the assumption that Wanda was that powerful even before they found out that she had a connection with the Phoenix Force. Even Wanda herself still seems to thinks that she's that powerful.
She did lose them when Doom managed to briefly usurp the Life-Force from her . Apart from claiming that its power was greater than the Beyonder's , he didn't do much with it , because he lost it just as quickly . Chaos Magic , for all we know may never have been involved in M-Day to begin with . Fact of the matter is that in the most recent revelation pertaining to HoM , we are told that it was the Life-Force which enhanced her powers to a godlike level , and that is what I am going to go by , rather than indulge in irrelevant personal conjecture about whether or not Chthon's power had anything to do with this upgrade .
Her performance against MODOK , coupled with Tony's revelation , is indicative that she is that uber only in the presence of at least one member of the P5 . I wouldn't put too much weight into what the Avengers assume , as these are characters who clearly aren't authorities when it comes to above-herald-level(in terms of overall power) characters . Otherwise , Black Panther's claim that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 , should also be considered , when we clearly know that is not the case . Or the Dark-Avengers' version of Ms Marvel's claim that Sentry's going insane would make what Wanda did as believable in comparison , should also be considered . Thankfully , that is also not the case .
Its as simple as that : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
As far as what the X-Men have or have not done with the PF so far , the answer is very simple : its all plot based . The same reason applies for why Wanda is being used the way she is being used . This is an event which is being written , among others , by Matt Fraction and Brian Bendis . Its expected to be a disaster , seeing as how these two, especially Fraction with his Mighty Thor and Fear Itself arcs , have proven that they are good at character assassination .
Magik should be able to defeat scarlet witch fairly easily because her sword can be lethal to magic stuff.
If the PF powers up mutant powers, then Magik should be able to control time.Doctor Strange said if she was more skilled, than she can control time. She would be like zoom,and he's unstoppable.
She did lose them when Doom managed to briefly usurp the Life-Force from her . Apart from claiming that its power was greater than the Beyonder's , he didn't do much with it , because he lost it just as quickly . Chaos Magic , for all we know may never have been involved in M-Day to begin with . Fact of the matter is that in the most recent revelation pertaining to HoM , we are told that it was the Life-Force which enhanced her powers to a godlike level , and that is what I am going to go by , rather than indulge in irrelevant personal conjecture about whether or not Chthon's power had anything to do with this upgrade .
Her performance against MODOK , coupled with Tony's revelation , is indicative that she is that uber only in the presence of at least one member of the P5 . I wouldn't put too much weight into what the Avengers assume , as these are characters who clearly aren't authorities when it comes to above-herald-level(in terms of overall power) characters . Otherwise , Black Panther's claim that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 , should also be considered , when we clearly know that is not the case . Or the Dark-Avengers' version of Ms Marvel's claim that Sentry's going insane would make what Wanda did as believable in comparison , should also be considered . Thankfully , that is also not the case .
Its as simple as that : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
As far as what the X-Men have or have not done with the PF so far , the answer is very simple : its all plot based . The same reason applies for why Wanda is being used the way she is being used . This is an event which is being written , among others , by Matt Fraction and Brian Bendis . Its expected to be a disaster , seeing as how these two, especially Fraction with his Mighty Thor and Fear Itself arcs , have proven that they are good at character assassination .
But the way the story was written heavily implies that she still possessed those powers.
Wanda was never really concerned with confronting the Phoenix Five, she clearly thought that she was still as powerful as before. The Avengers made that same assumption. No one was surprised that Wanda was so powerful. No one went, "holy crap! How is Wanda able to take on the Phoenix Five? I thought she lost those power." They were just like, "well, of course she can do that, and we better let her help us" even before they discovered her connection with the Phoenix Force. Based on the way the story has been written, it seems like they're just going to retcon it so that Wanda's power was always connected to the Phoenix Force
She did lose them when Doom managed to briefly usurp the Life-Force from her . Apart from claiming that its power was greater than the Beyonder's , he didn't do much with it , because he lost it just as quickly . Chaos Magic , for all we know may never have been involved in M-Day to begin with . Fact of the matter is that in the most recent revelation pertaining to HoM , we are told that it was the Life-Force which enhanced her powers to a godlike level , and that is what I am going to go by , rather than indulge in irrelevant personal conjecture about whether or not Chthon's power had anything to do with this upgrade .
Her performance against MODOK , coupled with Tony's revelation , is indicative that she is that uber only in the presence of at least one member of the P5 . I wouldn't put too much weight into what the Avengers assume , as these are characters who clearly aren't authorities when it comes to above-herald-level(in terms of overall power) characters . Otherwise , Black Panther's claim that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 , should also be considered , when we clearly know that is not the case . Or the Dark-Avengers' version of Ms Marvel's claim that Sentry's going insane would make what Wanda did as believable in comparison , should also be considered . Thankfully , that is also not the case .
Its as simple as that : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
As far as what the X-Men have or have not done with the PF so far , the answer is very simple : its all plot based . The same reason applies for why Wanda is being used the way she is being used . This is an event which is being written , among others , by Matt Fraction and Brian Bendis . Its expected to be a disaster , seeing as how these two, especially Fraction with his Mighty Thor and Fear Itself arcs , have proven that they are good at character assassination .
But the way the story was written heavily implies that she still possessed those powers.
Wanda was never really concerned with confronting the Phoenix Five, she clearly thought that she was still as powerful as before. The Avengers made that same assumption. No one was surprised that Wanda was so powerful. No one went, "holy crap! How is Wanda able to take on the Phoenix Five? I thought she lost those power." They were just like, "well, of course she can do that, and we better let her help us" even before they discovered her connection with the Phoenix Force. Based on the way the story has been written, it seems like they're just going to retcon it so that Wanda's power was always connected to the Phoenix Force
The story implied no such thing . She was never depicted in that original Children's Crusade arc as having permanently regained the Life-Force powers .
Tony wanted to get more data on how she is able to affect the P5 the way she is able to do so .He was the one who made the discovery of the connection between Wanda's hex fields and the Phoenix Force . That doesn't indicate that the avengers were already completely confident that she could handle the PF easily .
As I said before the avengers are no experts when it comes to beings with such power-levels . Otherwise Black Panther's (erroneous) statement that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 should also be taken at face-value .
Cyclops himself on the other hand was stunned when he first discovered that Wanda could hurt him like that . Again , the proof is in the pudding .
Based on all this , I'll repeat once more : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
She's nowhere near being the most powerful being on Earth . Not even close . It just doesn't get any simpler than that .
The story implied no such thing . She was never depicted in that original Children's Crusade arc as having permanently regained the Life-Force powers .
Tony wanted to get more data on how she is able to affect the P5 the way she is able to do so .He was the one who made the discovery of the connection between Wanda's hex fields and the Phoenix Force . That doesn't indicate that the avengers were already completely confident that she could handle the PF easily .
As I said before the avengers are no experts when it comes to beings with such power-levels . Otherwise Black Panther's (erroneous) statement that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 should also be taken at face-value .
Cyclops himself on the other hand was stunned when he first discovered that Wanda could hurt him like that . Again , the proof is in the pudding .
Based on all this , I'll repeat once more : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
She's nowhere near being the most powerful being on Earth . Not even close . It just doesn't get any simpler than that .
Except the story does imply that in the characters' actions. Wanda always acted like she was still that powerful. Just look at the page posted at the beginning of this thread. Did she show fear, hesitation, or doubt when facing Magik? Not only was she confident but she was actually boasting of her power. She specifically says to Magik, "Don't you know what I can do?!?" How does that not imply that she was as powerful as before or at least believes that she was as powerful as before? How do you construe that as meaning anything other than Wanda saying that she still had those kinds of powers? What exactly do you think she meant by that comment?
Also, maybe you haven't noticed but the P5 aren't exactly invulnerable.
You don't see Emma stopping and running away after getting hurt by the sentinel or the arrow. So why would Scott let Wanda leave with Hope just because he got a boo boo on his hand unless he thought that Wanda was a much bigger threat?
The story implied no such thing . She was never depicted in that original Children's Crusade arc as having permanently regained the Life-Force powers .
Tony wanted to get more data on how she is able to affect the P5 the way she is able to do so .He was the one who made the discovery of the connection between Wanda's hex fields and the Phoenix Force . That doesn't indicate that the avengers were already completely confident that she could handle the PF easily .
As I said before the avengers are no experts when it comes to beings with such power-levels . Otherwise Black Panther's (erroneous) statement that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 should also be taken at face-value .
Cyclops himself on the other hand was stunned when he first discovered that Wanda could hurt him like that . Again , the proof is in the pudding .
Based on all this , I'll repeat once more : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
She's nowhere near being the most powerful being on Earth . Not even close . It just doesn't get any simpler than that .
Except the story does imply that in the characters' actions. Wanda always acted like she was still that powerful. Just look at the page posted at the beginning of this thread. Did she show fear, hesitation, or doubt when facing Magik? Not only was she confident but she was actually boasting of her power. She specifically says to Magik, "Don't you know what I can do?!?" How does that not imply that she was as powerful as before or at least believes that she was as powerful as before? How do you construe that as meaning anything other than Wanda saying that she still had those kinds of powers? What exactly do you think she meant by that comment?
Also, maybe you haven't noticed but the P5 aren't exactly invulnerable.
You don't see Emma stopping and running away after getting hurt by the sentinel or the arrow. So why would Scott let Wanda leave with Hope just because he got a boo boo on his hand unless he thought that Wanda was a much bigger threat?
Except she had already displayed the ability to hurt Scott , and based on this , the P5 themselves judged her as a major threat . Scott possessed 1/5th of the Phoenix Force , and he was utterly surprised that she was able to hurt him at all . He clearly considered himself as above being vulnerable to someone like her . When she showed him otherwise , he freaked out , and when this ability was further displayed on Magik , she too freaked out to the point of declaring her as "pure evil" .
What does that Emma-Sentinel scan prove ? The sentinel managed to give her pause for merely two panels , before getting violated by Emma . Compare this to Wanda , who not only had her hands full with MODOK , but in fact needed the help of Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman to eventually take him down .
Not to mention that when the Sentinel attacked Emma , the PF wasn't charged up in her(flaring up in flames as it normally does) , and when Hawkeye struck her down , she didn't even yell in pain , but was annoyed that he would dare to do such a thing . The Scott whom Wanda hurt , WAS charged up with the PF . Furthermore , Gladiator's punches in a recent bout didn't cause Scott to yell in pain . Again , in this case as well , Scott's Phoenix was charged up . What does this tell you ?
Your second scan destroys your own claim that the avengers were completely confident that Wanda was already powerful enough to take on the P5 by herself , because Hawkeye clearly screams at her to run . "Wanda , get the hell OUT--" .
Wanda isn't as powerful as before . What she is able to do to the P5 is based on a mysterious connection she has to the Phoenix Force , which amps up her hex fields to a point that it affects the Phoenix wielders themselves .This particular amp only takes place when she in the presence at least one member of the P5 .This is a FACT which was discovered by Tony himself recently , and it was only done so because Tony sent them on that mission to begin with as he wanted more data on how Wanda was able to do what she did . This indicates that they were surprised by her ability to hurt the P5 , and Tony wanted to understand it better(as it would prove to be useful in combating the X-Men) .
The story implied no such thing . She was never depicted in that original Children's Crusade arc as having permanently regained the Life-Force powers .
Tony wanted to get more data on how she is able to affect the P5 the way she is able to do so .He was the one who made the discovery of the connection between Wanda's hex fields and the Phoenix Force . That doesn't indicate that the avengers were already completely confident that she could handle the PF easily .
As I said before the avengers are no experts when it comes to beings with such power-levels . Otherwise Black Panther's (erroneous) statement that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 should also be taken at face-value .
Cyclops himself on the other hand was stunned when he first discovered that Wanda could hurt him like that . Again , the proof is in the pudding .
Based on all this , I'll repeat once more : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
She's nowhere near being the most powerful being on Earth . Not even close . It just doesn't get any simpler than that .
Except the story does imply that in the characters' actions. Wanda always acted like she was still that powerful. Just look at the page posted at the beginning of this thread. Did she show fear, hesitation, or doubt when facing Magik? Not only was she confident but she was actually boasting of her power. She specifically says to Magik, "Don't you know what I can do?!?" How does that not imply that she was as powerful as before or at least believes that she was as powerful as before? How do you construe that as meaning anything other than Wanda saying that she still had those kinds of powers? What exactly do you think she meant by that comment?
Also, maybe you haven't noticed but the P5 aren't exactly invulnerable.
You don't see Emma stopping and running away after getting hurt by the sentinel or the arrow. So why would Scott let Wanda leave with Hope just because he got a boo boo on his hand unless he thought that Wanda was a much bigger threat?
Except she had already displayed the ability to hurt Scott , and based on this , the P5 themselves judged her as a major threat . Scott possessed 1/5th of the Phoenix Force , and he was utterly surprised that she was able to hurt him at all . He clearly considered himself as above being vulnerable to someone like her . When she showed him otherwise , he freaked out , and when this ability was further displayed on Magik , she too freaked out to the point of declaring her as "pure evil" .
What does that Emma-Sentinel scan prove ? The sentinel managed to give her pause for merely two panels , before getting violated by Emma . Compare this to Wanda , who not only had her hands full with MODOK , but in fact needed the help of Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman to eventually take him down .
Not to mention that when the Sentinel attacked Emma , the PF wasn't charged up in her(flaring up in flames as it normally does) , and when Hawkeye struck her down , she didn't even yell in pain , but was annoyed that he would dare to do such a thing . The Scott whom Emma hurt , WAS charged up with the PF . Furthermore , Gladiator's punches in a recent bout didn't cause Scott to yell in pain . Again , in this case as well , Scott's Phoenix was charged up . What does this tell you ?
Your second scan destroys your own claim that the avengers were completely confident that Wanda was already powerful enough to take on the P5 by herself , because Hawkeye clearly screams at her to run . "Wanda , get the hell OUT--" .
Wanda isn't as powerful as before . What she is able to do to the P5 is based on a mysterious connection she has to the Phoenix Force , which amps up her hex fields to a point that it affects the Phoenix wielders themselves .This particular amp only takes place when she in the presence at least one member of the P5 This is a FACT which was discovered by Tony himself recently , and it was only done so because Tony sent them on that mission to egin with as he wanted more data on how Wanda was able to do what she did . This is indicates that they were surprised by her ability to hurt the P5 , and Tony wanted to understand it better(as it would prove to be useful in combating the X-Men) .
Exactly!
The PF/P5 and Wanda are Ying and Yang.. it's the best way to describe their power's connection for the time being til there's more info given.
The story implied no such thing . She was never depicted in that original Children's Crusade arc as having permanently regained the Life-Force powers .
Tony wanted to get more data on how she is able to affect the P5 the way she is able to do so .He was the one who made the discovery of the connection between Wanda's hex fields and the Phoenix Force . That doesn't indicate that the avengers were already completely confident that she could handle the PF easily .
As I said before the avengers are no experts when it comes to beings with such power-levels . Otherwise Black Panther's (erroneous) statement that "Thor is just as powerful" as the P5 should also be taken at face-value .
Cyclops himself on the other hand was stunned when he first discovered that Wanda could hurt him like that . Again , the proof is in the pudding .
Based on all this , I'll repeat once more : actual on-panel feats > all hyperbole(whether narrative or character based) .
She's nowhere near being the most powerful being on Earth . Not even close . It just doesn't get any simpler than that .
Except the story does imply that in the characters' actions. Wanda always acted like she was still that powerful. Just look at the page posted at the beginning of this thread. Did she show fear, hesitation, or doubt when facing Magik? Not only was she confident but she was actually boasting of her power. She specifically says to Magik, "Don't you know what I can do?!?" How does that not imply that she was as powerful as before or at least believes that she was as powerful as before? How do you construe that as meaning anything other than Wanda saying that she still had those kinds of powers? What exactly do you think she meant by that comment?
Also, maybe you haven't noticed but the P5 aren't exactly invulnerable.
You don't see Emma stopping and running away after getting hurt by the sentinel or the arrow. So why would Scott let Wanda leave with Hope just because he got a boo boo on his hand unless he thought that Wanda was a much bigger threat?
Except she had already displayed the ability to hurt Scott , and based on this , the P5 themselves judged her as a major threat . Scott possessed 1/5th of the Phoenix Force , and he was utterly surprised that she was able to hurt him at all . He clearly considered himself as above being vulnerable to someone like her . When she showed him otherwise , he freaked out , and when this ability was further displayed on Magik , she too freaked out to the point of declaring her as "pure evil" .
What does that Emma-Sentinel scan prove ? The sentinel managed to give her pause for merely two panels , before getting violated by Emma . Compare this to Wanda , who not only had her hands full with MODOK , but in fact needed the help of Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman to eventually take him down .
Not to mention that when the Sentinel attacked Emma , the PF wasn't charged up in her(flaring up in flames as it normally does) , and when Hawkeye struck her down , she didn't even yell in pain , but was annoyed that he would dare to do such a thing . The Scott whom Emma hurt , WAS charged up with the PF . Furthermore , Gladiator's punches in a recent bout didn't cause Scott to yell in pain . Again , in this case as well , Scott's Phoenix was charged up . What does this tell you ?
Your second scan destroys your own claim that the avengers were completely confident that Wanda was already powerful enough to take on the P5 by herself , because Hawkeye clearly screams at her to run . "Wanda , get the hell OUT--" .
Wanda isn't as powerful as before . What she is able to do to the P5 is based on a mysterious connection she has to the Phoenix Force , which amps up her hex fields to a point that it affects the Phoenix wielders themselves .This particular amp only takes place when she in the presence at least one member of the P5 This is a FACT which was discovered by Tony himself recently , and it was only done so because Tony sent them on that mission to egin with as he wanted more data on how Wanda was able to do what she did . This is indicates that they were surprised by her ability to hurt the P5 , and Tony wanted to understand it better(as it would prove to be useful in combating the X-Men) .
Exactly!
The PF/P5 and Wanda are Ying and Yang.. it's the best way to describe their power's connection for the time being til there's more info given.
Wanda is the Ying to the PF/P5 Yang
Something like that .
A simpler analogy would be that the P5 are kryptonians , and Wanda is kryptonite .
Although I anticipate that the Life-Force will end up being revealed as the Phoenix Force , sooner or later .
Except she had already displayed the ability to hurt Scott , and based on this , the P5 themselves judged her as a major threat . Scott possessed 1/5th of the Phoenix Force , and he was utterly surprised that she was able to hurt him at all . He clearly considered himself as above being vulnerable to someone like her . When she showed him otherwise , he freaked out , and when this ability was further displayed on Magik , she too freaked out to the point of declaring her as "pure evil" .
What does that Emma-Sentinel scan prove ? The sentinel managed to give her pause for merely two panels , before getting violated by Emma . Compare this to Wanda , who not only had her hands full with MODOK , but in fact needed the help of Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman to eventually take him down .
Not to mention that when the Sentinel attacked Emma , the PF wasn't charged up in her(flaring up in flames as it normally does) , and when Hawkeye struck her down , she didn't even yell in pain , but was annoyed that he would dare to do such a thing . The Scott whom Emma hurt , WAS charged up with the PF . Furthermore , Gladiator's punches in a recent bout didn't cause Scott to yell in pain . Again , in this case as well , Scott's Phoenix was charged up . What does this tell you ?
Your second scan destroys your own claim that the avengers were completely confident that Wanda was already powerful enough to take on the P5 by herself , because Hawkeye clearly screams at her to run . "Wanda , get the hell OUT--" .
Wanda isn't as powerful as before . What she is able to do to the P5 is based on a mysterious connection she has to the Phoenix Force , which amps up her hex fields to a point that it affects the Phoenix wielders themselves .This particular amp only takes place when she in the presence at least one member of the P5 .This is a FACT which was discovered by Tony himself recently , and it was only done so because Tony sent them on that mission to begin with as he wanted more data on how Wanda was able to do what she did . This indicates that they were surprised by her ability to hurt the P5 , and Tony wanted to understand it better(as it would prove to be useful in combating the X-Men) .
You keep missing my point.
1. My original point was how idiotic and hypocritical for the Avengers to use Wanda against the Phoenix Force due to what she did in the past and the power they still think she possesses.
2. There is nothing to suggest that people's perceptions of Wanda's powers have changed. Whether or not she actually is still as powerful as she was before is a separate point. Everyone, including Wanda, still thinks she's as powerful as before. Scott being surprised at being hurt by Wanda does not mean he thinks Wanda has lost her powers, it simply means that he thought that the Phoenix Force was more powerful.
3. My point with the sentinel and Hawkeye was that the P5 can be hurt but in those instances, they did not let injury get in the way of their goal. When they faced Wanda, Scott hurt his hand and then just gave up. That obviously shows they view Wanda as a much bigger threat. You've missed my point by assuming that I was making some kind of comparison between the P5's power and Wanda's power, which I in no way implied. Also, even when Wanda had that level of power, she was not invulnerable either. In fact, she was always shown as being fragile despite her power, kind of like Zatanna.
4. I never made the claim that the Avengers were completely confident in Wanda. You just made that up. I said that the Avengers assumed that Wanda was as powerful as she was before, which does not imply that they were confident that she could beat the P5 since as you pointed out before, the Avengers are not experts on that level of power so no one knows how powerful she was compared to the Phoenix Force. It simply means that they thought Wanda was their most powerful weapon against the P5 even before they learned about her connection with the Phoenix Force.
5. Whether or not Wanda actually is as powerful as she was before is inconsequential to my original point, which was not as much about Wanda's power as it was about the idiocy and hypocrisy of the Avengers. The Avengers went after Hope because of the potential danger of the Phoenix Force. Yet, they let Wanda loose despite still assuming she was as powerful as before.
Except she had already displayed the ability to hurt Scott , and based on this , the P5 themselves judged her as a major threat . Scott possessed 1/5th of the Phoenix Force , and he was utterly surprised that she was able to hurt him at all . He clearly considered himself as above being vulnerable to someone like her . When she showed him otherwise , he freaked out , and when this ability was further displayed on Magik , she too freaked out to the point of declaring her as "pure evil" .
What does that Emma-Sentinel scan prove ? The sentinel managed to give her pause for merely two panels , before getting violated by Emma . Compare this to Wanda , who not only had her hands full with MODOK , but in fact needed the help of Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman to eventually take him down .
Not to mention that when the Sentinel attacked Emma , the PF wasn't charged up in her(flaring up in flames as it normally does) , and when Hawkeye struck her down , she didn't even yell in pain , but was annoyed that he would dare to do such a thing . The Scott whom Emma hurt , WAS charged up with the PF . Furthermore , Gladiator's punches in a recent bout didn't cause Scott to yell in pain . Again , in this case as well , Scott's Phoenix was charged up . What does this tell you ?
Your second scan destroys your own claim that the avengers were completely confident that Wanda was already powerful enough to take on the P5 by herself , because Hawkeye clearly screams at her to run . "Wanda , get the hell OUT--" .
Wanda isn't as powerful as before . What she is able to do to the P5 is based on a mysterious connection she has to the Phoenix Force , which amps up her hex fields to a point that it affects the Phoenix wielders themselves .This particular amp only takes place when she in the presence at least one member of the P5 .This is a FACT which was discovered by Tony himself recently , and it was only done so because Tony sent them on that mission to begin with as he wanted more data on how Wanda was able to do what she did . This indicates that they were surprised by her ability to hurt the P5 , and Tony wanted to understand it better(as it would prove to be useful in combating the X-Men) .
You keep missing my point.
1. My original point was how idiotic and hypocritical for the Avengers to use Wanda against the Phoenix Force due to what she did in the past and the power they still think she possesses.
Maybe the more ignorant and knowledge lacking Avengers like Black Panther(who thinks that Thor is as powerful as the P5) . Not the intellectuals like Tony(or at least not until he had discovered the connection between her and the PF) .
2. There is nothing to suggest that people's perceptions of Wanda's powers have changed. Whether or not she actually is still as powerful as she was before is a separate point. Everyone, including Wanda, still thinks she's as powerful as before. Scott being surprised at being hurt by Wanda does not mean he thinks Wanda has lost her powers, it simply means that he thought that the Phoenix Force was more powerful.
Actually , they only (re)acquired that line of thought AFTER she was able to show that could hurt members of the P5 . Otherwise Hawkeye's exclamation "Wanda , get the hell OUT--" clearly indicates that your Avenger joe isn't/wasn't confident that she was capable of taking on a member of the P5 , not even after she had displayed the ability to hurt Scott(although the P5 had a different opinion) .
3. My point with the sentinel and Hawkeye was that the P5 can be hurt but in those instances, they did not let injury get in the way of their goal. When they faced Wanda, Scott hurt his hand and then just gave up. That obviously shows they view Wanda as a much bigger threat. You've missed my point by assuming that I was making some kind of comparison between the P5's power and Wanda's power, which I in no way implied. Also, even when Wanda had that level of power, she was not invulnerable either. In fact, she was always shown as being fragile despite her power, kind of like Zatanna.
And I have already showed you that when the Sentinel managed to hurt her , Emma's PF was NOT charging up(she wasn't surrounded in flames as she usually would be if the PF is charged up) . I also gave you the example of how Cyclops took Gladiator's punches in a recent bout , and in this instance the Phoenix WAS charged up in him :
My point is very clear . There are only two instances when you can really hurt a P5 member(enough to elicit a reaction of pain) :
1. When their respective PF portion isn't charged up .
2. When you're Wanda .
Your Emma-Sentinel scan is an example of case-1 .
Get it ?
4. I never made the claim that the Avengers were completely confident in Wanda. You just made that up. I said that the Avengers assumed that Wanda was as powerful as she was before, which does not imply that they were confident that she could beat the P5 since as you pointed out before, the Avengers are not experts on that level of power so no one knows how powerful she was compared to the Phoenix Force. It simply means that they thought Wanda was their most powerful weapon against the P5 even before they learned about her connection with the Phoenix Force.
I never said "beat them" , I said "take on them" . You accuse me of putting words in your mouth , yet you do the same . Btw , this post of yours
@KingofMadCows said:
But the way the story was written heavily implies that she still possessed those powers.
Wanda was never really concerned with confronting the Phoenix Five, she clearly thought that she was still as powerful as before. The Avengers made that same assumption. No one was surprised that Wanda was so powerful. No one went, "holy crap! How is Wanda able to take on the Phoenix Five? I thought she lost those power." They were just like, "well, of course she can do that, and we better let her help us" even before they discovered her connection with the Phoenix Force. Based on the way the story has been written, it seems like they're just going to retcon it so that Wanda's power was always connected to the Phoenix Force
seems to imply otherwise .
5. Whether or not Wanda actually is as powerful as she was before is inconsequential to my original point, which was not as much about Wanda's power as it was about the idiocy and hypocrisy of the Avengers. The Avengers went after Hope because of the potential danger of the Phoenix Force. Yet, they let Wanda loose despite still assuming she was as powerful as before.
That's more because of the crap plot of AVX , which is trying to somehow redeem an irredeemable character like Wanda . More than idiocy it is blatantly cruel to use her as a game-changer in this battle , because of what she did to the mutants to begin with . In fact the blame for this entire fiasco in a way , can be laid squarely on her shoulders , since she essentially stunted human evolution by killing of the mutant race , which ended up drawing the PF to Earth , resulting in this sh!tty event known as AVX .
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