Emma's biggest flaws.

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Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

I just need to get something off my chest and. Emma Frost is a powerful telepath, one of Marvel's best. She is a smart woman, from doing business, to teaching students and helping lead the X-Men. So Emma has a lot of positives to her as a character and what some love is what others hate. But to be honest, I don't see much growth left for her as a telepath. She is already powerful, already skilled in that art. So my biggest problems with the character, my personal opinion of her greatest flaws are her diamond form and lack of combat skill.

Her diamond form as quoted by Emma is "blessedly indestructible." We know it is not, but her durability in it is pretty high. Emma is bulletproof, has tanked shots from World War Hulk and eventually gets planted in the ground and still didn't break just to get taken out of the fight, blasts that sent her hundreds of feet from Bishop, hits from a highly amped and pissed off Sebastian Shaw, jet crashes, Genosha, and even recently a blast from the Dreaming Celestial's head when controlled by Mr. Sinister among other things. Her flaw is commonly known as her shatter point and even that took required circumstances. Aside from her one flawed spot, and recently lost an arm due to one of the Dreaming Celestial's probes. Considering one of the probes blasted Colossus across San Francisco, ripped a hole in his chest and cracked him even further along the torso which you don't see happen often at all with him, it showed quite a limit to her diamond form.

Now this is one of the big flaws, we look at her durability and compare it to her strength. According to handbooks, Emma is a supposed 2 ton limit and based off feats, some peak humans and people lower than that have better strength feats. She has a high end durability, but her strength is terrible. She is one of the X-men's most durable characters so she has the potential in that form to stand up to heavy threats, but her strength is severely lacking which hinders that. I'd like to think Marvel should at least make her a solid 10 tonner.

Another problem Emma has is a lack of combat skills. This could obviously be solved and used in conjunction with her diamond form. In comics, when characters lack a strength or speed against bigger, stronger and faster threats, they give said character a high skill level in combat to compensate or they have a fancy weapon. I know Emma has her telepathy as her primary offense but there are times that her telepathy can't work and it isn't unlikely more characters will develop higher resistances to telepathy or new characters will be made that are immune to it so she has her diamond form as a backup. Now Emma isn't a terrible fighter, but she is by no means a master and is only capable at best and has basic defense training. She did manage to fight off lizard creatures without powers, held her own against Bishop and Sage in diamond form before getting blasted away, and managed to hold off a lizard Gambit and Wolverine for a brief time.

She doesn't have to be Psylocke in terms of skill but she could be made a better fighter and combined with diamond form, she could be formidable in those confrontations when telepathy isn't going to work. The diamond form should technically add some weight to her blows and if she straightened out her fingers she could use her hands as dagger like weapons. Since Emma isn't the fastest character either, instead of just being a new Wolverine and tank shots constantly to get close, she could use her new skill level to dodge attacks and come in for a good punch or kick or finger stab/slash which I think could work. Scott is good fighter, he should show her a few new combat moves, or take a lesson or two with Psylocke. Emma has the resources and options at her disposal. All it needs is Marvel to get a little creative and realize it.

So that's my little rant on the subject. Some might say it isn't Emma to fight like that, but if it really wasn't she wouldn't have stood up to Hulk like she did, she would have left with the Celestial attacking, or the Vampires etc. She does fight when she has to and is smart enough to cover all her bases. I just hate that she is either a proverbial glass cannon or an adamantium water pistol. She is a powerful and skilled telepath in her human form but can be easily killed. In diamond form, she is just hard to put down without a knowledge of a shatter spot, but is next to useless when confronting a physical threat. I know she is good at mingling her abilities but like I said there are times that isn't going to cut it. Responses, comments, criticisms are always welcome.

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#1 Posted by Andy Steven Summers (4987 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind seeing some downtime scenes between Emma and Scott training in the danger room. Her getting some combat training, and maybe even her teaching him some more psychic defenses. Like something Storm touched on in the Pm, mention that sliver of the Void trapped in the black box and her helping him maintain that.

#2 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree man. I wouldn't want her to be any more skilled than she is.

#3 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought her biggest flaw was the fact that she's a complete b witch.

#4 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: I love that about her. And not all the time :P.

@ReVamp: That's fine. I don't expect her to be Psylocke or anything. I just think she needs an upgrade in strength or learn a few lessons how to use her skill better in and out diamond form in a bit more of a creative. She is pretty much as low as combat ability by MA standards since she doesn't seem to brawl and has some finesse and she is none too fast either. It's just her durability is too high and she goes up against the bigger threats in diamond form but is next to useless other than a shield when telepathy won't cut it.

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#5 Posted by Son Of Storm (11252 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree......with everything!

#6 Posted by Duchess (5995 posts) - - Show Bio

No to combat skill, a hell yes to being a ten-tonner.

#7 Posted by Charmix (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

@Son Of Storm said:

I agree......with everything!

what he said!

But Avenger said something about when Emma was stab by the purifiers, I think it was the admantium blade you were referring too, he said it had the ability to cancel out a mutants powers, which allowed her to bleed in that form.....

#8 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charmix: Still I wouldn't doubt adamantium piercing her.

@Duchess: I'm for either one. Something has to be done.

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#9 Posted by Charmix (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@Charmix: Still I wouldn't doubt adamantium piercing her.

@Duchess: I'm for either one. Something has to be done.

Has colossus be cut by adamantium before O__o just a question.

She should know how to fight she could easily download it into her brain from another person's mind.

#10 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charmix: Yes. Wolverine cut him in goes to hell (arguable since he was possessed). He scored the armor in a training session and on 2 other occasions Colossus has been afraid of the claws. I'd say with effort yes Wolverine can cut along him, he is not as durable as adamantium.

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#11 Posted by Duchess (5995 posts) - - Show Bio

I think if we start dipping into giving her better hand to hand capabilities we're taking away from Psylocke and making Emma look like a second version.

#12 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't want to see her become this expert fighter or to start going the stealth route, as that it most certainly Psylocke's territory. But I would like to see her better utilize fighting skills a bit (especially in diamond form). I feel like they could make amazing use of her in fights. She's not just a telepath, the girl has some serious strength and durability going on for her. Add in some fighting skillz and she becomes that much more of a threat.

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#13 Edited by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Duchess: I disagree to an extent. I'd rather have her gain some strength like you said, but she can just learn to hit harder or use her hands as piercing weapons. It is one or two skills learned, not a whole martial art. If Emma learns that it can compensate for a lack of strength without taking anything away from Betsy. Emma would have a lot of training to do to even pose a threat or even be uttered in the same sentence as her when it comes to skill. One or two tricks learned won't hurt anyone.

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#14 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

I don't want to see her become this expert fighter or to start going the stealth route, as that it most certainly Psylocke's territory. But I would like to see her better utilize fighting skills a bit (especially in diamond form). I feel like they could make amazing use of her in fights. She's not just a telepath, the girl has some serious strength and durability going on for her. Add in some fighting skillz and she becomes that much more of a threat.

That's pretty much what I'm saying. She doesn't need to be Pyslocke, but she can get better than they depict her. One or two tricks learned in a fight won't hurt her. Like I've been saying just make her hit harder or use her hands as blades, get creative. If not a strength upgrade, it is better option than just being one of the X's tanks but not having any strength or ability to make her useful.

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#15 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I still can't get over how badass she was against Mr. Sinister

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#16 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: That was awesome but off topic DH :P.

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#17 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Since when have I been known for staying on topic :)

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#18 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: Only when I try to get you off topic.

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#19 Posted by The Stegman (22998 posts) - - Show Bio
I thought her biggest flaw was the fact that she's a complete b witch.

this, her biggest flaw is her personality, man i hate her

#20 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Sorry, what was the topic again?

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#21 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: Who are you again?

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#22 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@The Dark Huntress: Who are you again?

COOL STORY, BRO!

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#23 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: New Jeanland Greytriots.

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#24 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: .............

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#25 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: Wasn't that a Giant kick in the ego?

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#26 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I will murderize you.

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#27 Posted by doddy (248 posts) - - Show Bio

arrogance

#28 Posted by lorex (945 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say one of the biggect problems Emma has is that writers for whatever reason cannot write for her very well.
Also I do think she could use some training in martial arts or something.

#29 Posted by ramj (21 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

I thought her biggest flaw was the fact that she's a complete b witch.

this, her biggest flaw is her personality, man i hate her

this!!

as for making her stronger emma is overpowered enough as it is

#30 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind seeing Emma actually train herself in combat skills, as long as the writers don't make her too much like Psylocke or she could use her diamond form for strength purposes such as lifting up some tons.

#31 Posted by thestepfordcuckoos (147 posts) - - Show Bio

I think your quite wrong when it comes to Emma her and her progression as a character. Emma herself has come along by far more than most characters. Emma was once said to be one of the X-Men's greatest villains and to come from being a great villain to one of the greatest super heroins I think it an amazing progression in itself. Especially when you find self in love with one of the one leading heroes and leaders. Though some people think that Emma is a bitch but I think more of it as a defense mechanism for her personality especially when reviewing Emma history. Emma as she has said had become a proverbially diamond even before Genosha. Personally I think Emma has a long way to go before she comes more "human" in a sense like we saw in X-Men: The End when she was her own children. Emma has lost a lot from her students (numerous amounts) to her own business which she personally gave up for Scott. In the end there are some hard choice that the X-men and their leaders have to make and some times (or then often) it's Emma who takes the choice in her hands and makes for everyone even when it she knows it'll make her seem still like the villainess she use to be.

Emma lack of fighting in battle I think is a personal choice before her and the team (and the writers). Her telepathy is a key factor in planing and keeping the team in connect with each other so I think Emma is mainly needed to do things mentally then physically until she needs too. This is a mostly a trend with people with mental powers other especially those without power that includes telepathy or other mental projections ie. Psylocke, Exodus, Jean Grey, Rachel Grey, Nate Grey, etc. who all have telekinesis or psychokinesis. Also we don't know what Emma personally knows in combat as she rarely takes the time for it and I think you need to give Emma the benefit of the doubt because Emma could easily mental "download" combat knowledge from any of the X-men and their opponents and we doubt know if she's already done it and is has her combat skills waiting in the wings until it's time for her to really fight for her life.

Also, Emma has never been stabbed with a adamantium knife. The knife in which you are speaking of was made of vibranium not adamantium. And even I don't think Emma is vulnerable to it because you also have to take into consideration that the weapon was especially for designed to take out Emma using Nimrods mutant database (which all the weapons that took down the mutants at the school during Stryker's "Crusade where made specifically to take down certain mutants such as knife, the mental probes/blocks that his soldiers had placed in their minds to defend against psyches, and the special bullets used for Hellion (Julian Keller) which passed through his telekinetic shield). Also, I agree that Emma should be a 10 tonners when it comes to strength but I think it maybe proportioned to the weight of her diamond form. It's not like Emma muscle become plates of diamond over lapping each other but her form as a whole becomes diamond which her strength would be proportioned to it. Also I think that Emma having a "flaw" in her diamond is perfect become it means that Emma isn't as perfect as would like to be bring her down to a human level. Emma's flaw can be only broken/cracked another diamond ie. the diamond shaped bullet in which Esme of the Stepforc Cuckoos had Angel Salvadore shoot her with (the diamond that we see everyday are usually shaped by another diamond cutting it by a mechanic). I don't see that happening often.

Anyways I think Emma is perfect as she is.

#32 Posted by Mercy_ (92431 posts) - - Show Bio

@doddy said:

arrogance

It's not arrogance, it's confidence. There's a fine line between the two, but it's most certainly there.

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#33 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@thestepfordcuckoos: First off, half of what you wrote has nothing to do with my topic at hand. I do not have a wrong grasp on her progress as a character as this is not a blog about her evolution and stated nothing about her progress over the years, but something more I hope with her progression. I already said she is a powerful telepath but there is not much she can really do with it IMO. I already know she is skilled in psychic surgery, psi blasts, illusion casting, sending messages, mind wipes, stimulation etc. This isn't even about her personality either. Second she very well could have downloaded some fighting techniques, we don't know but she does not have many feats which I think could be expanded on in a time when telepathy isn't going to work and I gave my own preferences of what could be done. The only thing I was wrong about was the knife and thank you for correcting me and thank you for the reply.

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#34 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: You love h2h combat, don't you?

#35 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Comes with my street leveler love. But for the character I just think she needs something. She has durability that can compare to Colossus yet her strength is no more than 2 tons based on hand book definitions and her best feat was cracking a brick wall and holding a person in each arm. If telepathy and psi attacks aren't going to work it's kind of pointless to have such a high defense level and not have the strength to back it up like in the fight with WWH. A simple learn how to hit harder technique would be good, peak humans do it and it allows them to kick down steel doors, break trees, bricks etc. And since her hands are diamond they could be used like bladed weapons. She doesn't need to be uber skilled, just a trick or two would good or at least shown if she hasn't already.

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#36 Posted by 2000_years_anthem (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't scott already teach emma how to fight?

it's somewhere in the astonishing x-men when emma told ororo that scott teach her how to throw a feign,i forgot which issue though ..

#37 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma is fine as is. She has extra-ordinary telepathic powers and a secondary mutation to boot - if there is any dissatisfaction in regards to her not being able to hold her own in hand to hand combat, then maybe its more of a writer fallacy.

I don't recall seeing Xavier kicking and smacking his way out of trouble - not to mention the Stepford Cuckoos or even Quentin for that matter. Anything more would make Emma boringly powerful. To me - her greatest ability is to verbally smack down her opponents. Don't mess with a great thing. If I had to change anything, it would be her annoying co-dependency with her boyfriend. How about some dialogue that doesn't contain Scott in it? That's what I'm waiting for.

#38 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@2000_years_anthem: Possible. I haven't read Astonishing consistently since Whedon and that was awhile ago.

@lykopis: I'm fine with the way Emma is over all, if I wasn't I wouldn't have her as my favorite female comic character or 2nd fave character over all. She doesn't have to engage in a fist fight enough it really makes a difference. But I wouldn't mind if she was just made at least a 10 tonner to get some strength with durability or gave her a few h2h feats or tricks like just to hit harder when it calls for it and some ways I think they could go about doing it and none of that would make her "over powered". I don't want her to be a diamond Colossus/Jean/Psylocke mix or anything of the sort and If Marvel does none of what I mentioned I wouldn't care nor is it gonna ruin my love for the character. Thank you for the reply lykopis.

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#39 Posted by Lifeguard85 (392 posts) - - Show Bio

In Generation X and X-Treme X-Men, Emma has been shown to have enough combat skills to hold her own, she just prefers not to do it. I also think she has a number of skills that have not been utilized recently since she became more popular in the main X titles.

#40 Posted by 2000_years_anthem (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I found it,it's in astonishing x-men #28,here it's the dialogue

Ororo: How well are you going to be able to cope without powers,emma?

Emma: Scott's been instructing me in h2h,and i can feign a dead faint.you?

i guess lykopsis was right,LOL.

but hey the girl is in love head over heel for him,it's okay i guess,their still in "new couple" mode on marvel terms.

#41 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3449 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I don't like her diamond form secondary mutation - it's ironic, but since getting it, she seems to give up on using her telepathy offensively to get increased durability. In a medium where pretty much every character is somewhat protected by plot armor, it just gives writers an excuse to let her get knocked around.

I think her flaw is that she's becoming too nice and "safe". Considering that in her first appearances, she had psionic boosting equipment, weapons in her cape and etc., it always seemed like she had more weapons training and didn't need to rely on hand-to-hand combat. I'd like her to produce more Frost Enterprises tech instead of her diamond form and combat skills. Basically, rely on cunning versus canned action-hero-hth-skill. That's part of what made her interesting before. Something akin to "Hallo. I'm no genius, but this laser pointer I'm holding has frozen your nerves. So even though you're immune to telepathy, I own you now."

#42 Posted by thestepfordcuckoos (147 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: @Lifeguard85: I second theses.

#43 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@jrock85: Comes with my street leveler love. But for the character I just think she needs something. She has durability that can compare to Colossus yet her strength is no more than 2 tons based on hand book definitions and her best feat was cracking a brick wall and holding a person in each arm. If telepathy and psi attacks aren't going to work it's kind of pointless to have such a high defense level and not have the strength to back it up like in the fight with WWH. A simple learn how to hit harder technique would be good, peak humans do it and it allows them to kick down steel doors, break trees, bricks etc. And since her hands are diamond they could be used like bladed weapons. She doesn't need to be uber skilled, just a trick or two would good or at least shown if she hasn't already.

I get what you're saying, but asking for good character development from Marvel is like asking the sky not to be blue. LOL

#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Emma is a fantastic character and has had some of the best development over the years IMO. It is true what you speak though. Schism and before Cyclops (though my fave character) was not on a good developmental path and was heading downhill being a cold, callous, leader. And Emma too, she was just there cause of Scott. Gillen comes along with UXM and has Emma almost leave Scott, get her back to her b*tchy self reasserting herself as a strong female lead and had Scott shed some of that militaristic attitude so he doesn't take her for granted. So far he is repairing Scott and Storm's relationship or it seems like it to me, and Emma is back to how she should be and Scott is a bit more compassionate. Now this whole AvX event is coming along and based on the spoilers released the other day, Cyclops is back to how he was. Good job Bendis, Fraction, Brubaker, Aaron and co are just going to undo what good Gillen has done so far and I think it sucks. We know the X-men will probably lose and be the bad guys so the Avengers can look good for this movie. I really hope that team of writers can make me eat my words.

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#45 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@jrock85: Emma is a fantastic character and has had some of the best development over the years IMO. It is true what you speak though. Schism and before Cyclops (though my fave character) was not on a good developmental path and was heading downhill being a cold, callous, leader. And Emma too, she was just there cause of Scott. Gillen comes along with UXM and has Emma almost leave Scott, get her back to her b*tchy self reasserting herself as a strong female lead and had Scott shed some of that militaristic attitude so he doesn't take her for granted. So far he is repairing Scott and Storm's relationship or it seems like it to me, and Emma is back to how she should be and Scott is a bit more compassionate. Now this whole AvX event is coming along and based on the spoilers released the other day, Cyclops is back to how he was. Good job Bendis, Fraction, Brubaker, Aaron and co are just going to undo what good Gillen has done so far and I think it sucks. We know the X-men will probably lose and be the bad guys so the Avengers can look good for this movie. I really hope that team of writers can make me eat my words.

You're hoping for that team of writers to do something that's actually progressive and beneficial for the characters involved? You know better than that, my friend. LOL

#46 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Whoa I never said they would. I was being sarcastic saying good job to them at undoing what little good Gillen has done since he is 5 issues into the relaunch.

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#47 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I gotcha. I was replying to your comment about "hoping that they would make you eat your words".

#48 Posted by PowerHerc (81458 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

I thought her biggest flaw was the fact that she's a complete b witch.

This.

#49 Posted by God_Spawn (37293 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Ah my mistake. Yeah I have no hope for them at all which is why if this event has something decent come out of it without killing what little good steam the X-men are on or have left, I will take back everything negative I said.

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#50 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I firmly believe that your negativity will be vindicated after this event is over.

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