Emma in AvX.

#1 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Emma and think she's brilliant and dynamic. But I just really like don't like her portrayal in AvX. I didn't mind the first couple of issues, but then the Phoenix 5 stuff started to happen.

It's hard to judge how much the Phoenix Force is influencing them all, but it's seems to have emphasised the Phoenix 5's most dominant characteristics. Emma's known for her cunning and conniving side. But she uses them for good. She knows how people work and how to use that to her advantage. But with the Phoenix, Emma is not the feisty woman I love, and AvX is just leaving me sour with how she is being portrayed.

Here is a couple of things that are bothering me:

  • The kiss with Namor is what pushed me over the edge. The Phoenix emphasised their lust probably, but when Marvel messes with Emma and Scott for a stupid plot device, I'm not a happy lass. They're an incredibly loyal couple and great partners, but this love triangle is just not an entertaining complication. Give them drama, but not in a way that is harmful to their character's development.
  • Her being a Phoenix Host. The Phoenix is Jean's thing. I don't like the association Marvel has built up with Emma and the Phoenix. Endsong was fine, but it seems like they're giving her too much of Jean's "things", and Fraction's run really is what set up that mentality for me with her being Scott's wife basically. Every time he called her "babe" I cringed. But yeah, I like Jean, but I'm tired the same motifs being inserted into these two characters.

I have a few other issues, but I was wondering what everyone else thought of her portrayal.

#2 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

The minute she became PF'd out I was unhappy, but then I just disliked the portrayal more and more .Severely hurting Hawkeye, Siding with Namor, and destroying that kids Sentinel "he loved it dammit!" were all moments that have soured her for me abit. I want to believe Marvel wouldn't throw a decade of building and characterization out the window, but it has not been pretty for Ms. Frost.

#3 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel's the latest character the "architects" have decided to destroy. Just ignore everything that's happened and hope for her death(or theirs) so that their butchering of her will end. 

#4 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, there's plenty of people rooting for Cyclops to be killed at the end of this so I'm already bracing myself. -_-

#5 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1333 posts) - - Show Bio

Welcome to the WTF have you done to my fav character club.

AvX has not being kind to emma and scott at all. This from a jean fan.

#6 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Just think what i think: Avengers VS. X-Men is not canon.

Xavier just had a really, really bad dream.

#7 Edited by lorex (954 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to agree that I really dont like AvX in general, and I really don't not like the portrayal of Emma. Yes Emma does have a dark side, but she has worked very hard for years to work toward making a better life for mutants. The stuff with Namor, well I let that slide as it building on flirtation from earlier. The foreshadowing that that Cyclops dieing also sucks, but I suppose when Marvel decides to tear someone down they go all the way. Hopefully they do a good job buildinig him back up after the fall.

#8 Posted by God_Spawn (37907 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist:

The kiss with Namor is what pushed me over the edge. The Phoenix emphasised their lust probably, but when Marvel messes with Emma and Scott for a stupid plot device, I'm not a happy lass. They're an incredibly loyal couple and great partners, but this love triangle is just not an entertaining complication. Give them drama, but not in a way that is harmful to their character's development.

The Phoenix didn't enhance their lust. If anything the PF IS corrupting them and it is obvious after AvX 8 that Emma is the most corrupted here with Scott seemingly having the greatest handle on the power. Emma kissed Namor manipulating him to go attack Wakanda. Not because she likes him, not because they can't keep their hormones in check, but she is corrupted and wants more power. She probably knew he would be defeated then the Phoenix Shard in him would split amongst the others increasing their power. She even danced around the question when Magneto brought Namor's actions to Scott and he asked her. This triangle (it really isn't even one) Emma, when in her right state of mind, has shoved Namor away every chance he tried on her. The relationship E and S have has always had its ups and downs, and Namor is just playing the part of Wolverine in this one.

And this whole event has had a pretty poor representation of the X characters with certain writers doing a better job than others in different books. However, ever since gaining the PF I find it obvious that the X-Men who have it have been acting differently than they normally do and I'm not trying to sound rude, but I don't get why people are acting as if it is just Emma being a cheater when she isn't in her right mind and it is shown in the books.

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#9 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

I think its best to just pretend like the events of AvX aren't canon.

#10 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Marvel's the latest character the "architects" have decided to destroy. Just ignore everything that's happened and hope for her death(or theirs) so that their butchering of her will end.

@jrock85 said:

I think its best to just pretend like the events of AvX aren't canon.

Couldn't agree more.

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#11 Posted by God_Spawn (37907 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: Damn, you want Em to die?

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#12 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Yes and no. I'm tired of her character being either poorly written or just full-on fcked over. It would break my heart if she died, she's my favorite. But at the same time...it breaks my heart seeing her sh!t on like this. If they end up making her the villain of this story or something like that...ugh.

Sometimes death is better than misuse.

Moderator
#13 Posted by God_Spawn (37907 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: All 5 of the X-Men are being sh*t on. Except Namor. Him going to war on Wakanda was actually pretty cool IMO and I gained a new found respect. But that is a different story. I still don't see her and Scott dying at the end of this and I'm kind of looking forward to Bendis' take just on the concept of the 05 react. And at least for now we have Gillen for a few issues and the wrap up 5 issue series as well. But then again, amongst our group, I am the most optimistic.

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#14 Posted by Queen's Halo (2431 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Marvel's the latest character the "architects" have decided to destroy. Just ignore everything that's happened and hope for her death(or theirs) so that their butchering of her will end.

Exactly. I've been praying for her death after she attacked Juston Seyfert's Sentinel. She used to be a b!itch but she could back it up. Now she's a b!itch and needs to die. Hopefully very painfully.

#15 Edited by kamionero (313 posts) - - Show Bio

At first I was really pissed about it all. I hate how her characterization completely goes against what was built during her best arcs (in New X-men and Whedon's Astonishing). Those are trully Emma's shining moments as an X-woman. And im bored with they blaming it all on her past... lets be honest... she hasnt been a vilainess since the early 90s... Whedon really zipped that chapter such with that Hellfire arc. So seeing her become villainous really is lame backpedalling.

However... I am interested to see how this plays out. I think the story has potential to give her a little Oomph as a character if done properly. Because ever since the Whedon stories she has been just Scotts girlfriend and the X-men telepath. Nothing more than a damn phone with a hot pair of legs. So this could revive the character a bit if they take it the right way. What I REALLY REALLY hope is that they dont use the ex-vilainess as an escape goat. I hope its not like "Oh... well Scott was misguided, but in the end he stood up to Emma and her trully nasty intentions and methods, so he's aigh't" and then she ends up as the scourge so Scott can go back to being goody good.

BTW... am I the only one who thinks the Avengers are the ones being TOTAL dicks?!? Who made them the deciders of what is good and fair? Im with Beast in this one... they are being asses. Especially that bitch Wanda. This is all her damn fault, some one kick her face in and off her damn high horse.

#16 Posted by akaouji (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamionero said:

What I REALLY REALLY hope is that they dont use the ex-vilainess as an escape goat. I hope its not like "Oh... well Scott was misguided, but in the end he stood up to Emma and her trully nasty intentions and methods, so he's aigh't" and then she ends up as the scourge so Scott can go back to being goody good.

BTW... am I the only one who thinks the Avengers are the ones being TOTAL dicks?!? Who made them the deciders of what is good and fair? Im with Beast in this one... they are being asses. Especially that bitch Wanda. This is all her damn fault, some one kick her face in and off her damn high horse.

i literally just made an account to tell you i love you so fricking much for this. like this is perfect. seriously phoenix has nothing to do with them first of all so avx is sucking already next they didn't even show up to end song or war song so why the f--- are they there now. lastly Wanda is an arrogant psycho unapologetic bitch that everyone puta on the pedestal all the goddamn time even x-men fans does it even though she is not even the supposed killer of of the mutant race or whatever (i don't really care, M-day and house f M was crap and give people to believe that she can 'pwnz' phoenix force, eternity living tribunal etc), she is.

anyways, yeah i agree mos of the above. sigh, this emma forum always make me so happy because i feel not alone. i fricking love her/].

#17 Edited by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@akaouji said:

@kamionero said:

What I REALLY REALLY hope is that they dont use the ex-vilainess as an escape goat. I hope its not like "Oh... well Scott was misguided, but in the end he stood up to Emma and her trully nasty intentions and methods, so he's aigh't" and then she ends up as the scourge so Scott can go back to being goody good.

BTW... am I the only one who thinks the Avengers are the ones being TOTAL dicks?!? Who made them the deciders of what is good and fair? Im with Beast in this one... they are being asses. Especially that bitch Wanda. This is all her damn fault, some one kick her face in and off her damn high horse.

i literally just made an account to tell you i love you so fricking much for this. like this is perfect. seriously phoenix has nothing to do with them first of all so avx is sucking already next they didn't even show up to end song or war song so why the f--- are they there now. lastly Wanda is an arrogant psycho unapologetic bitch that everyone puta on the pedestal all the goddamn time even x-men fans does it even though she is not even the supposed killer of of the mutant race or whatever (i don't really care, M-day and house f M was crap and give people to believe that she can 'pwnz' phoenix force, eternity living tribunal etc), she is.

anyways, yeah i agree mos of the above. sigh, this emma forum always make me so happy because i feel not alone. i fricking love her/].

What do you mean by unapologetic? Wanda tried to kill herself and would have succeeded if her son didn't stop her. She also tried to take responsible for what happened and went quietly with the X-men, but Magneto and the Avengers stopped her.

#18 Posted by akaouji (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry: yes she did and she chose death. i never said i wanted her to die. dying is a simple way out, dying is like giving someone a free pass so they won't see what they did from the perspective of others and grow (because Marvel characters NEVER stay dead LOL), her dying might even pool in fan support and herald a faster forgiveness due to the 'heroic of choosing death' which is all bs because that is not how life work and it would really turn me off, dying doesn't convey grievance for past mistakes she need to own up to her action to the race she had cripple and nearly destroyed not Captain America and his band of non-mutant and the help of her fanbase to repent and ask for forgiveness. i'm also not asking her to try and fix everything because that would require more stupid power up storyline in which she goes to beat up living tribunal for power t throw up rainbows whereas now she need to keep her powers in check. they need to take some non-dazzle X-men moment and have her go around the world learn about the consequence of her action through he eyes of those she robbed of their powers. some might be good stories in which it somehow helped other tragic. i am not asking her to live and wallow in guilt although she definitely should show more than what she did but i am blaming that on avx in general because 'YOU WANT ME TO DIE MAGIK FOR MY ACTIONS AND CRIMES!? DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!! OMG HUSBAND I KILLED YOU I AM SAD THAT YOU HAVE NOT FORGIVEN ME YET DESPITE ME WANTING TO KILL MYSELF TO UNDO IT..." sorry she's a lot more classy than that obviously but her 'do you know who i am' superiority complex pisses me of and rates high on my unapologetic radar.

anyways yeah i want her power to be in check (and not overpower [so i won't have to look at her fans in the battle thread claiming she can kill Eternity]) i want her to repent (be truly sorry to everyone she affect ad take distrust, insult, hate and lack of forgiveness in stride like a grown up and realize it's life) be on probation (no heroics for now must repent first) and earns back the trust of not only the Avengers but the mutant race as well. also getting her psycho-ness work out this has some part to do with her crazy family and fortunate circumstances but she must move on grow and learn from it etc. be a better woman basically, i want conclusion or closure etc not cover up (look! i totes killed Mr. Sinister and stopped the phoenix love me again!) or sweep under rug (yeah, no that was Doom and Life Force's fault, Wanda no cray-cray okay?) type of repentance from her.

#19 Edited by Crimsonlord53 (1333 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else think scott and emma could use some time in a white hot room?

Before this event started I was wondering why marvel had scott thinking an untrained teenage girl could withstand never mind control the phoenix.

#20 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist: Marvel is trying to separate Jean from phoenix even though they are practically the same person or at least thats what marvel has made it seem ever since Jean met the phoenix force and even before she did. To me honestly there will be no host like jean grey the phoenix five are absolute garbage uhg scarlet witch please kill them all. Also they are only proving that phoenix is jean thing even more with the phoenix five in my opinion.

On regards to the Namor thing I think its stupid and unnecessary like WTF they spent years growing Scott and Emma's relationship and now she is cheating on him -_- karma's a bit*h (Scott). With Namor really -_- oh well what can you do.

#21 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crimsonlord53: Lol RIGHT? Also these punk ass phoenix five cant control 1/5 of the phoenix. JEAN COME BACK and show them how its done

#22 Posted by EmmaGraceFrost (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@oviouslyjeangrey: How could you compare them to JEAN ?

#23 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

@EmmaGraceFrost: what do you mean?

#24 Edited by EmmaGraceFrost (44 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean Jean grey is made for the phoenix or its made for her however whoever & who cares blah blah blah but for what im seeing they are doing a SPECTACULAR JOB handling even the little piece of the phoenix they do have besides from jean who has manage to screw everything and everyone up whenever the phoenix is even mentioned with her in the same sentence I just don't think that's fair and you say "JEAN COME BACK and show them how its done" out everyong that should show anyone how its done in your words it damn well should'nt be JEAN GREY if she could teach them anything it's how to die repeatably and come back o also how to loose a marriage :)....(MY OPINION)

#25 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamionero: i couldnt agree more with you i want my bitchy meany emma back

#26 Posted by arcano_19 (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@EmmaGraceFrost:

dear just five words "white phoenix of the crown"

#27 Posted by EmmaGraceFrost (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcano_19: And One Word "DESTRUCTION"

#28 Posted by Sufferthorn (1738 posts) - - Show Bio

I think one of the biggest issues here, is that the Phoenix Force is functioning on a weird emergency-level. Iron Man did something weird to it, and so it took Cyclops/Emma/Magik, etc.

The individuals it was MEAN'T for, was Hope, and the 5 mutants that were mean't to share the power with her. That is why it was shown that there were only 5 places where Hope could possibly be.

The Phoenix is controlling them, and altering their state of mind in a desperate attempt to fullfill it's cycle. Hope still has a big role to play in this. Stop being scared, this is canon to me....it was canon when they did the Civil War and turned Iron Man into MORE of a jerk.....but it turned out alright.

....Just wait, to see what happens.

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