Emma Frost is X-Men worst leading lady

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#1 Edited by time (5048 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men worst leading lady is Emma Frost

Avengers VS. X-Men #7

I decided to create this blog, to share my views on Emma Frost and why I think she one of X-Men worst leading ladies.

Let me explain why I feel this way.

I think Emma has had everything handed to her on a plate. If no one agrees with me on this, then they haven’t be reading X-Men comics properly. Since Emma became X-Men leading lady. She has faced no real competition from any other X-lady. Infact, all the X- ladies have been treated very poorly by marvel, marvel made most them irrelevant, or not portraying them properly in comics.

Let me elaborate :

They sent Jean Grey packing, she been gone for over 8 years now. Now a younger version of her will be return, not the old Jean that we once knew. With Emma surviving the Avengers VS. X-Men event. She not really going to face much competition from Jean Grey. Jean is a teen and she not as powerful as she once was, so she won’t be a real threat to Emma, cause she still is a kid. So once again marvel has treated Jean Grey poorly and disappointed her fans to, yet again.

Then there is Psylocke, she was killed off in 2001, then she briefly return in 2006 and bonded with Rachel, then she ended up in that title ‘Exiles’, a rubbish series by the way.

So she didn’t become major player in the X-Men world until 2009, when she came back in the Sisterhood story arc. Since then, she been a part of three teams, hook up with two men, became more powerful and choose to work for both Cyclops and Wolverine. There has been more interesting developments in Psylocke character in the last three years, and then has been with Emma Frost in the last 8 years, you know what that tells you something. To add to that to that, Psylocke has been poorly treated by marvel for 9 years now, which is really shocking, considering how popular she was back in the day.

Then there is Storm, who marry Black Panther, then became a background character for about fours years in half. Having less voice or no voice in the decision making in X-Men teams. It looks like she may even loose leadership with her current X-Men team, according to rumours.

Then there is Polaris and Rachel who ending up in space for about three years and a half. Then there Jubilee, can’t really say much about Jubilee, she been poorly portray in comics, ever since she left the X-Men team in the 90.s Then they return her and make her a vampire and then she joint some sort of vampire team..

So the only competition that Emma has face is from a bunch new students, who not that experience, not very popular, not that powerful, not that important and not that interesting, with the exception of Hope. Hope seems to be the only new student, that’s really that important to the X-Men team.

Then there is Kitty and Rogue and both of these characters have been poorly treated by the writers.

Rogue had her own series, which was great and everything. X-Men legacy was a good series. However, she not as powerful as she used to be, she lost Ms Marvel powers, so she not as strong, as she once was. She not as fun as she used to be, her personality has change a quite abit. She has been demoted by Cyclops. She went from being a leader, to a mentor, to being a teacher. She been dating Magneto and instead of Gambit. Like I said before, poorly treated by Marvel and now she joined The Avengers, could it get any worse for her.

Then there is Kitty, her rivalry with Emma Frost was really interesting in Joss Whedon run. I also think her runion with Colossus was really interesting . Then she ended up in that bullet and she was gone for about a year. Then she return and couldn't touch anyone, and then her and Colossus broke up. Then she chose Wolverine side, instead of Cyclops.

So like I have said before, not much competition for Emma Frost.

Now let’s compare Emma to Jean Grey

People are always saying that Jean Grey needs more development, which I find very strange to here, because she had more things happen to her than most. She went on to be one of the most powerful X-Men. She has had better relationships with all the X-Men and she done more for X-Men than most.

Let’s take a look at Emma Frost character, let’s look at her developments over the years. She replace Jean, became Cyclops women, X-Men main telepath and X-Men’s leading lady. All she really done is lived in Cyclops shadows.

Cyclops has been barking orders at everyone, making the big decisions, while she just sat back and just took orders from him. Jean Grey, Storm, Psylocke and even Rogue have been better leading ladies than she has, voices there opinions and making big decision over the years etc.

Then she has the Cuckoos, who are her daughters, clones of her and they been host of the Phoenix force as well. That’s not different to Rachel Grey, daughter of Jean Grey, who has been the host of the force or Hope Summers another Jean Grey rip off. Who is tied to as well. Then there is Maddie, who is a clone of Jean Grey and wanted to get her hands on the Phoenix as well. So the Characters that are connected to Emma Frost, are not that different to the characters that are connected to Jean Grey. People keep on saying that’s Jean Grey needs more development, cause there are other characters that are like her. If anyone needs more development, it’s those characters. They don’t have strong identity of there own, most of there character attributes are connected to Jean Grey one way or another. So they need a lot of development, not her.

Then Emma became part of the Phoenix five, a host over the force. One again thinks turn ugly for the person, who has been a host of the Phoenix force. Emma turn evil and tied her own people in chains and became a killer. So both Emma and Scott turn evil and it’s like marvel are recycling same ideas connected to Jean Grey. The only surprise was Cyclops becoming Dark Phoenix. So a lot that happen to Emma Frost, has happened to Jean Grey before, so like she following in the same footsteps as Jean Grey. Becoming a host of the Phoenix force and turning evil.

Then there is the love triangle between Cyclops, Emma and Namor. People keep on giving Jean Grey grief, for being a love interest for Cyclops and Wolverine. Do we need to take a look at Emma Frost character?

Ever since Namor joined the X-Men, which was about three years ago. It’s mainly about him trying to get into Emma Frost snickers. Cyclops has been too busy saving the world and looking at the bigger picture and Namor has been trying to get with Emma ever since. Infact Namor, only with the X-Men, cause of Emma. Marvel made him join the X-Men, to make her more interesting. They been dragging this Emma and Namor thing out for about three years now and they made out in the Avengers vs X-Men event.

A least the love triangle between Cyclops, Jean and Wolverine was interesting, Jean Grey had an interesting relationship with Cyclops and a interesting friendships with Wolverine. It created one of the most popular rivalry in X-Men comics, of all time. Unlike Emma Frost love triangle, which has been drag out and force down are throats for about three years. Which not surprising, considering Emma and Scott relationship has been boring for last couple of years, they only had one good series and that was Joss Whedon run. He was the only writer that made there relationship interesting, everyone other writer has fail to that. So Emma ended up being some sort love interest, too. Do people see where I’m going with this, she just following the same footsteps as Jean Grey.

I’m not even sure why Emma Frost so popular, people keep saying that she done more for Scott Summers then Jean Grey has. Now whether I hear that statement. I think it’s absurd and I think it’s a ridiculous statement to make and you want to why.

How has Emma Frost done more for Cyclops that Jean has. Emma and Scott have been together for about 9 years now, compare to 20yrs+. Which is how long Jean and Scott have been together for. How does 9 years compared to 20 yrs+ ? . It’s doesn't Emma history with Scott, doesn't compare to Jean Grey and Scott summers history.

Let’s look at this in detail. Lets’ look at some of the decisions that Cyclops has made over the last couple of years

Cyclops created the X-Force. Did Emma have any say in creating the X-Force? No. She didn’t even know about it. When she found out about it, she didn’t like it. Cyclops created the X-Force and Wolverine lead the team and then Wolverine created his own X-Force team.

Are the X-Men divided, cause of Emma ? No. Infact Emma had no say in it whatever. The X-Men are divided, cause of Wolverine and Cyclops. Both of them don’t agree, they don’t agree on what’s best for the X-Men. Both of them were being stubborn and very naïve, on how to run to the X-Men. Emma has no impact on decision making of X-Men. The only thing she done, it fund Utoptia and she only doing that, cause Angel stop doing that.

Is she the reason why Cyclops went to war with the Avengers,

No. I don’t think Cyclops had much of choice in matter, Captain American came Utopia, with an army. Demanded Scott to hand of Hope. I think Emma could of done more in the first chapter or so, she could of used her telepathy powers, she could of heard the thoughts of the Avengers on the Jet and she could of warned the X-Men and Cyclops about it. Cyclops could of order Magneto and Storm do destroy the aircraft. The story should have been handle better though and It wouldn't of been so easy for The Avengers take over Utopia.

Was Emma the one who decided to kick Charles Xavier out of the X-Men? No. Emma Frost wanted to become headmistress of the X-Men when Jean grey die and she wanted Cyclops to lead the X-Men with her. Scott Summers didn’t, he wanted to walk away from X-Men and it wasn’t till Jean gave him the nudge to accept Emma offer.

So was as it her decision to kick Charles Xavier out of the X-Men.?

No. It was Cyclops decision, it was Cyclops decision to place more trust in Magneto, then Charles. Emma had no say in it whatever. She only physic attack Charles in X-Men legacy, under Cyclops orders, just like she let him, Beast and other mutants get torture in the Utopia story arc. In fact she let it happen, she follow Scott orders and let it happen.

Is she the reason why, Cyclops has no problems with sending young mutants to there deaths. Is she reason why Cyclops allows students to become killers? No. Cyclops used X-23 and hand no problem with letting Oya become a killer. In fact Emma had nothing to with.

Was she one that decided to turn Utopia into some sort of army base? No! She wanted to focus on teaching young students, teachings is what she loves to do. Unfortunately she hasn’t been able to do that for years, it wasn’t until the X-Men divided up and then she decided to speak up. That wouldn’t of happen if Wolverine and Cyclops didn’t fall out.

Is Emma the reason why Scott has fallen out with his friends in the X-Men? No. Cyclops has falling out with Charles, Beast, and Wolverine. He even had disagreements with Rogue and Storm. Has Emma had anything to do with that? No she hasn’t...

So can I ask what Emma Frost done for Scott summers and how she done more for him and then Jean Grey?

Most of the decisions that he has made over the years, has had nothing to do with her. She sat back and took orders from him.

I supposed you could argue that, Cyclops wouldn't have become leader of the mutant race, if he was still with Jean Grey. Well that debatable at best. Would the mutant race be a endanger species to begin with, if Jean Grey was around. Not likely. Jean is a far more powerful telepath than Emma and if she had the Phoenix force, she probably would of stop Scarlet Witch on M-DAY. She would of found way to repopulate the mutant race too. Even if she fail on both accounts and she was around when the whole Charles and Emperor Vulcan business went down. She would stuck by the man she loves the most and not her mentor who has lied to husband.

Cyclops has became the leader he is, cause he step up and made those decisions. Him being leader of the X-Men has more to do with the absence of Jean Grey, then being with Emma Frost. Him being a leader of mutant race, also has to do with the treatment done Charles Xavier character in the last couple of years, then being with Emma Frost. Also the treatment done to Storm and Magneto character over the years, has more do with Cyclops being leader of the X-Men, then being with Emma Frost. May I remind people, Jean never once held Scott back, if anyone held Scott back, it was Charles, the X-Men writers and himself as well. If anything, she wanted him to loosen up a bit. If Jean Grey was around, he wouldn’t of made so many bad decisions over last couple years .

So how has Emma Frost done frost more Cyclops than Jean grey? Well lets look at Jean Grey character. Some people have said she useless and there either saying that cause, there not a fan of hers or they haven’t been reading comics probley.

Here is a brief list of what she done for Scott and the X-Men

Scott Summers

She saved Scott Summers life, Scott wouldn’t be alive, if it wasn’t for Jean Grey. She separated him from Apocalypse with help with Cable.

She also help him raise Cable 12 years in the future, Cable is the fighter he is today, cause she play a part in his upbringing.

She flew Cyclops and herself both to a deserted area, where she removed Cyclops' ruby quartz visor, and told him to open his eyes. Cyclops opened his eyes and realized that he could see without needing the visor to hold back his optic blasts. had used her telekinesis to keep Cyclops' powers in check. It was the first time since puberty that Cyclops was able to see without the aid of ruby quartz.

When Mr Sinsiter kidnapped Cable, Cyclops was unable to fight him, cause Mr. Sinister had planted mental blocks inside of Cyclops' mind and as a result he was unable to help while Sinister defeated the X-Men and X-Factor. With Marvel Girl's help, and Havok using his powers to overcharge him, Cyclops was finally able to use his optic blasts on Sinister. It was the first successful strike against Sinister, as he was unable to adapt to the blasts. Cyclops unleashed an extremely powerful attack, blasting Sinister's body to pieces.

As well as that they three kids and three of them have grow up in alternative futures and realities. So there is a lot of history there, as well as a lot of relationship’s to explore.

There is also the Dark Phoenix saga, which is one of the most important stories arcs, which focused on Jean and Scott Summers.

She also force Scott Summers to move on with Emma, Emma and Scott have future together, cause of her.

X-Men

She has save Emma Frost life three times. Removing the Phonix force out of Emma Frost body. Putting her body back together in new X-Men, as well as taking over Emma body, when the Helfire club came under attack by the Sentinels. Jean kept Emma frost and herself alive.

She gave Psylocke a power upgrade, after dealing with Shadow King

She kept Wolverine alive, after Magneto rip the Adamantium out of his body. It was Jean grey who kept him alive on Avalon. Wolverine would of die, if wasn't for her.

As said Jean was able to take Xavier's memory and spread it to mutants across the globe and put his consciousness into his body. Look into the future, projected her thoughts from Galacticus's ship to the inhabitants of earth and urge them to resist the Magus's takeover, transferred her mind into Emma's body to save herself from dying, telepathically spent an issue with Storm from across the world and braided her hair with her TK etc.And she did all of this under her own power.

When the X-Men and Avengers were fighting Onslaught, the Hulk pleaded with Jean to shut off the "Banner Persona" which she does and the Hulk destroys Onslaught`s psychic armor with a powerful punch, so powerful that the Hulk and Bruce Banner were separate. Which allow Scarlet Witch dive into Onslaught`s energy form which causes him to be weaken.

She also has save the X-Men many times before in the past.

So how has Emma frost done more for Cyclops than Jean Grey has, from what I have said above, she clearly hasn’t. The only think I’ve seen is some of her disrespectful attitude rump off on him and that’s it and that hasn’t really help him either. If anyone thinks Jean Grey is useless, than you need to read up on X-Men history.

Emma Frost has had it too easy, for too long. She has been X-Men leading lady for nines years now and she has nothing to show for it. She has face not real competition from any other x-Lady. Some people believe she earn her right to be X-Men leading lady, but she didn’t, it was given to her and handed to her on plate. Marvel got rid of Jean Grey and made most of the other X-Ladies irrelevant.

I'm not huge fan of Emma Frost, as you can see. I feel she has just lived in Cyclops shadows, for far too long and as long as X-Men remain about Cyclops, I feel she will pay the price for it. A lot of people have said she has done more Cyclops, then Jean Grey has. As you can see, she hasn't and I think it's greatly exaggerated, what she done for Scott Summers. I think people are giving her too much credit for it. She been allowed to shine in X-Men comics, for the past nine years and she has done nothing to show for it. Which why I think she one of X-Men worst leading lady.

What do you think? I'm interesting to hear your views on the topic.

#2 Edited by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't compare Emma to Jean. That is the first point I disagree with you on. Also -- your points about why other X-Women are more worthwhile than Emma reads just as a list of what they have done over the years, not in comparison to Emma. Emma has never, ever had anything handed to her on a platter, contrary to what some X-Men fans may say and I suggest you read up on her 12 issue series to get some background information on her.

As for living in Cyclops' shadow, I don't see that at all. What I do see is a supportive partner who never once allowed him to get away with sanctimonious crap he hid behind, especially when with Jean. Jean and Scott's relationship was wonderful. Yes, lots of history there. But they were the annoying Barbie and Ken of the X-Men and by the time Jean became the headmistress of the Xavier institute, even I was getting annoyed with her, and I consider myself to be a pretty big Jean fan.

Emma Frost is an extraordinary character, I love everything about her and that's as a female comic fan. She is independent, blunt, non-patronizing and take-me-as-I-am-proud-of-my-sexuality woman. Pretty much what Jean wasn't. And that's a perfect match for Scott. Let's not forget, if it wasn't for Emma, there would have been no Utopia after Schism.

She has given up everything for her love for Scott -- several times over and to compare her to Jean in an effort to malign her character does both women a disservice. Enough with the Emma bashing and Jean idolizing. Its getting old.

#3 Posted by IllyanaRasputin (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

Let’s take a look at Emma Frost character, let’s look at her developments over the years. She replace Jean, became Cyclops women, X-Men main telepath and X-Men’s leading lady. All she really done is lived in Cyclops shadows.

Alright. Emma Frost has probably been one of the most developed and well written female X-Ladies in X-Men history. I understand that you're a Jean Grey fan, and this whole topic you're basically comparing Jean Grey and Emma frost's relationship with Cyclops, and how you like Jean Grey better with him. But, nor here nor there - there is a lot to Emma Frost (who has been in the X-Men comics since Uncanny X-Men 129), that you haven't even mentioned. Do I agree that she has been in Cyclops' shadow LATELY hell to the yes. But that does not erase the past she's had in the Marvel Universe, so if anything at this point in time Emma Frost is being treated POORLY by writers, but that does not erase how well written she was in the past. And to boot a lot of the characters you mentioned such as Psylocke, Rogue, and Storm have recently been treated really well by writers - Psylocke is in 3 X-Books, Rogue has had her own on going series for a hell of a long time now, and Storm sure was Queen of Wakanda so she was defintiely written out of the X-Books for a while, but now she's been in the X-Men v.3 for a while now and she's also going to be a leading lady in the new X-Force book.

Lets get this straight. There is NO LOVE TRIANGLE between Emma Frost, Cyclops and Namor. Emma and Cyclops are happy together and Namor is a horny fish who want's to get it in with Emma Frost. It is nothing like Cyclops, Jean, and Wolverine's love triangle at all. And if you mention Emma's affair she had with Namor while they were possessed by the P5 that's just silly and will be left behind because again - the P5 was in control and like Emma said, the slightest thought would trigger something which she couldn't control.

And basically you're listing things that Emma (as a character even though it's the writers writing her) had no control over. Did any of the other X-Men make or control Cyclops' decision? No they did not. Emma Frost is the character who moulded Cyclops into the leader he is today because she see's him as HIS PARTNER, she fell in love with Cyclops and she supports what he does. Does that mean living in his shadow, some would say yes, but others would say that she's being a good partner. Emma Frost has always been a character who's wanted to teach students and train young mutants. She has always stuck by that and after the Schism Emma wanted to do that - does that mean she was going to leave Cyclops and betray him and teach at Wolverine's school, no, again, you would say it's because she's living in Cyclops' shadow - but others such as myself would say no because she's obligated to her partner and she believes that most of what he does is right.

Emma Frost has been The White Queen of the Hellfire Club, the Headmistress at her Massachusetts Academy, Headmistress of Generation X and then a teacher at Genosha. She became an X-Men because she turned over a new leaf - nothing was handed for her she became a leading X-Lady and Co-Headmistress at Xavier's because she has had enough experience dealing with mutants and students. If you compare her to Kitty Pryde running schools, Emma Frost hands down was a better headmistress.

And again, you're basically comparing Emma Frost because of the writers, you stated how Rogue wasn't as powerful anymore - I don't know what books you have been reading but she is just as powerful but she also has control over her powers now, which is much better than she had it before. All in all I get it, you don't like Emma Frost - but I do not think she has gotten everything handed to her whatsoever. She's been in the Marvel Universe for an infinite amount of years, and I think your problem is that you are comparing her to Jean Grey because you like Jean Grey with Cyclops better - which is totally fine, your opinion is your opinion.

To me, Emma Frost has not gotten things handed to her - she's had to gain the trust and loyalty to the X-Men ever since she came around in Uncanny X-Men / X-Men (Phalnax arc), and she's done a darn good job at it for these past 10+ years. All in all, everyone has their own decisions - but to me you're just upset with how writers treated other characters not the fact that Emma Frost is a leading X-Lady.

#4 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Ignoring everything above, she's now a non-factor. Her character is 'ALL ABOUT SCOTT', she doesn't appear unless he does or has something to do with it. That's what it is. Period.

#5 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

She served her purpose just like Jean and Ororo did before her. She matched the style of the X-Men at that point in time. I think the X-Men are growing past a leading lady, because ask someone who their favorite X-Woman is and our answers are going to be very different. My favorite and the X-Woman I will always say their leading lady is Storm, but others will say Jean or Emma, maybe Rogue, Kitty, or Psylocke. At this point I don't think it matters.

#6 Posted by XsPectre28 (726 posts) - - Show Bio

Agrees......

#7 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

shes not the worst but she could be better, if she wasn't so cute with cyclops all the time yuck lool, i miss bitchy emma loool

#8 Posted by wickedfun (61 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiss_lamia: I couldn't agree more. It seems the "bitch" has been taken out of HBIC and replaced with "mary-sue".

#9 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

@wickedfun: yeah i think they need to start having some arguments so she can let go a bit i think loool

#10 Posted by Mercy_ (92764 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll have a response up to this before the weekend's over...

Moderator
#11 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Rogue is!

#12 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

I stopped reading once I read the part that is anyone disagrees with you they are being naive and aren't reading the stories properly. If you expect people to read your long a** post(s) then don't insult them for possibly disagreeing with you.

#13 Posted by ComicMan24 (147093 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

I'll have a response up to this before the weekend's over...

I am dying to see that response lol

Also is god_spawn aware of this?

#14 Posted by Mercy_ (92764 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicMan24 said:

@Mercy_ said:

I'll have a response up to this before the weekend's over...

I am dying to see that response lol

Also is god_spawn aware of this?

Oh, I bet lol

He sure is :)

Moderator
#15 Edited by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

This is growing tiresome. Not only is there a lot wrong in the blog, but calling fans naive because they don't agree with you that you think she had everything handed to her on a plate or read X-Men properly is BS. I can understand not liking a character or having difference in opinions but when 80% of your posts and topics you create are targeting characters you don't like, and worse , putting them out of context and insulting other users because you are so deep in your own personal bias that it clouds proper judgement is really no better than spamming up threads. This hate against Emma and Cyclops is just constant and is really no better than all the useless Storm threads in her forums that certain users make. I may not like Jean Grey, and I have admitted to that before, but almost a year ago I made a blog in response to her possibly coming back and why she wouldn't have fit in if it was actually her and I included ways AROUND everything so that she could be in. I did so in a respectful manner and a not so apparent bias filled post that isn't even correct. I am a huge Emma fan and you and practically this entire board knows it, but they also know I am fair in decisions and judgments on characters whether they agree or not cause I can look at both sides, so you can respond to this and call me a fanboy, which is true, but I'm not so ignorant to ignore reason and insult other users just because I don't like a character which if most people visit the X-Men board can find true on your end.

Moderator
#16 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: Happy now?

Moderator
#17 Posted by Mercy_ (92764 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Yes :)

Moderator
#18 Posted by time (5048 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

I stopped reading once I read the part that is anyone disagrees with you they are being naive and aren't reading the stories properly. If you expect people to read your long a** post(s) then don't insult them for possibly disagreeing with you.

@god_spawn said:

This is growing tiresome. Not only is there a lot wrong in the blog, but calling fans naive because they don't agree with you that you think she had everything handed to her on a plate or read X-Men properly is BS. I can understand not liking a character or having difference in opinions but when 80% of your posts and topics you create are targeting characters you don't like, and worse , putting them out of context and insulting other users because you are so deep in your own personal bias that it clouds proper judgement is really no better than spamming up threads. This hate against Emma and Cyclops is just constant and is really no better than all the useless Storm threads in her forums that certain users make. I may not like Jean Grey, and I have admitted to that before, but almost a year ago I made a blog in response to her possibly coming back and why she wouldn't have fit in if it was actually her and I included ways AROUND everything so that she could be in. I did so in a respectful manner and a not so apparent bias filled post that isn't even correct. I am a huge Emma fan and you and practically this entire board knows it, but they also know I am fair in decisions and judgments on characters whether they agree or not cause I can look at both sides, so you can respond to this and call me a fanboy, which is true, but I'm not so ignorant to ignore reason and insult other users just because I don't like a character which if most people visit the X-Men board can find true on your end.

It's actually funny that you guys have said that. I have insulted people, even though they have done the same to me on my previous threads. Whether I have criticize there favourite characters, they have gang up on me and been rude to me, for just saying something bad about a character they like. You don't see people making a big deal out of that do you?

I like to apologized, if I have offended anyone, I wanted to get my points across strongly and that's the way I had to do it.

Just for a record this is not a hate thread at all. This me telling people why I'm not a huge fan of Emma Frost and why I feel she one of X-Men worst leading ladies. As you can see I have share quite abit on the topic.

#19 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

She better step up in marvel now or there are gonna be a lot of angry fans out there. As to the OP look at the time frame with jean gone emma was the only adult beside storm who could have steped up. Emma's paid her dues and earned this jean fans respect over the years.

#20 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

I'll have a response up to this before the weekend's over...

I'm gonna look forward to this.

Moderator
#21 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

This is growing tiresome. Not only is there a lot wrong in the blog, but calling fans naive because they don't agree with you that you think she had everything handed to her on a plate or read X-Men properly is BS. I can understand not liking a character or having difference in opinions but when 80% of your posts and topics you create are targeting characters you don't like, and worse , putting them out of context and insulting other users because you are so deep in your own personal bias that it clouds proper judgement is really no better than spamming up threads. This hate against Emma and Cyclops is just constant and is really no better than all the useless Storm threads in her forums that certain users make. I may not like Jean Grey, and I have admitted to that before, but almost a year ago I made a blog in response to her possibly coming back and why she wouldn't have fit in if it was actually her and I included ways AROUND everything so that she could be in. I did so in a respectful manner and a not so apparent bias filled post that isn't even correct. I am a huge Emma fan and you and practically this entire board knows it, but they also know I am fair in decisions and judgments on characters whether they agree or not cause I can look at both sides, so you can respond to this and call me a fanboy, which is true, but I'm not so ignorant to ignore reason and insult other users just because I don't like a character which if most people visit the X-Men board can find true on your end.

Don't drag Storm fans into this, I do my best damnit to keep that crap to a minimum.. Also good post

#22 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: I meant the few certain users, not you guys in general and I said it to make a point. There are more good Storm fans than bad.

Moderator
#23 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@Blood1991: I meant the few certain users, not you guys in general and I said it to make a point. There are more good Storm fans than bad.

Lol I was just making a point too, as stated. I agree with your statement, I absolutely HATE hate threads and think we can state our opinions on a character without making a thread about it or being incredibly rude.

#24 Edited by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Exactly. Think we can have bashing posts every now and then, everyone loses their cool. It becomes apparent however, when bashing is continuous and X amount of users call you out on it.

Moderator
#25 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@Blood1991: Exactly. Think we can have bashing posts every now and then, everyone loses their cool. It becomes apparent however, when bashing is continuous and X amount of users call you out on it.

I think creating a thread about it is just despicable and shows no respect towards other peoples opinions. I don't like Red She Hulk, but I would never create a Thread about it.

#26 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Despicable is a harsh word for it IMO but I agree, it is disrespectful to people's opinions. What bugs me is the consistent tendency of doing it. Like I said, everyone can lose their cool once in awhile but time has bashed Cyclops and Emma Frost consistently with a bunch of different threads.

Moderator
#27 Posted by Mercy_ (92764 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: O_o you're about to surpass me >:(

Moderator
#28 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@Blood1991: Despicable is a harsh word for it IMO but I agree, it is disrespectful to people's opinions. What bugs me is the consistent tendency of doing it. Like I said, everyone can lose their cool once in awhile but time has bashed Cyclops and Emma Frost consistently with a bunch of different threads.

Perhaps a little extreme, but I feel like we are more mature than that or at least should be

#29 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: I already have. Give it a bit.

Moderator
#30 Posted by Mercy_ (92764 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: T___T

Moderator
#31 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: What makes it better is it completes the trifecta for my fave characters. Top poster on Cyclops, Wolverine and now, Ms. Frost.

Moderator
#32 Posted by Mercy_ (92764 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: hmmmph

Moderator
#33 Edited by time (5048 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991 said:

@god_spawn said:

@Blood1991: Exactly. Think we can have bashing posts every now and then, everyone loses their cool. It becomes apparent however, when bashing is continuous and X amount of users call you out on it.

I think creating a thread about it is just despicable and shows no respect towards other peoples opinions. I don't like Red She Hulk, but I would never create a Thread about it.

@god_spawn said:

@Blood1991: Despicable is a harsh word for it IMO but I agree, it is disrespectful to people's opinions. What bugs me is the consistent tendency of doing it. Like I said, everyone can lose their cool once in awhile but time has bashed Cyclops and Emma Frost consistently with a bunch of different threads.

You want to know what's despicable, people who gang up and be rude to person, just for criticizing there favourite characters and you know what, that's a type of cyber-bullying. Me bashing Cyclops and Emma, how is that different to someone bashing Jean Grey, Wolverine or any other character. I've seen a lot of hate threads created about Jean Grey, you don't see me throwing a fit about it.

You want to know what you two are doing, your bullying someone. Your criticizing the thread itself and me and then you don't have any relevant thing to say about the topic at hand.

Just for record, it's not hate thread, this me sharing my views on Emma Frost. I haven't done that in quite a while. I can see you two people are not bother about reading the actual topic and instead your rather criticize the user, like you have been.

#35 Posted by time (5048 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

who that's for ?

#37 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Boring and predictable. As usual.

Stop with this crap.

#38 Edited by time (5048 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Boring and predictable. As usual.

Stop with this crap.

Once again Cyber-bullying.

What crap, read the topic.

#39 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyber-Bullying? What?

You call Emma fans naive, but they can't call you topic predictable and boring, because its been done?

#40 Posted by ComicMan24 (147093 posts) - - Show Bio

Rogue is not as powerful now? She has better control over her power and can now copy powers without endangering the lives of others.

#41 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@John Valentine said:

Boring and predictable. As usual.

Stop with this crap.

Once again Cyber-bullying.

What crap, read the topic.

I'm such a cyberbully.

I did actually manage to read through it. It was pretty hard given how you write, but still.

I think the jist is "I don't like Emma because she's not Jean. Wah, wah, wah!".

#42 Posted by SC (13148 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with a few points, I'll explain why and I will limit myself to a few. Other than that I love seeing lengthly posts and blogs where people express themselves, so mad props and respect.   

"I think Emma has had everything handed to her on a plate. If no one agrees with me on this, then they haven’t be reading X-Men comics properly. Since Emma became X-Men leading lady. She has faced no real competition from any other X-lady. Infact, all the X- ladies have been treated very poorly by marvel, marvel made most them irrelevant, or not portraying them properly in comics." 

Emma is a fictional character she isn't handed anything and the character received incredible amounts of fan backlash, as she was intended to, because Grant Morrison is the type of writer to shake up things and get people talking. Even though he isn't my favorite X-Men writer (Chris Claremont is) and even though they have very different writing styles, if you look at Chris Claremont's writing, moments like Storm drastically changing her look, having a villain character join the X-Men (Rogue) having writers do something controversial with the possibility of fan backlash has always been a part of the X-Men. I don't agree and I know the X-Men and everything like the back of my hand. How does one define competition? When Emma was introduced Jean was given equal billing and X-Men thrived, Rogue has gotten great exposure as well, and more panel time isn't always a good thing as Fraction proved with his systematic destruction of Emma that she has barely recovered from before AVX further distanced the character from the qualities many people liked about her. Emma has suffered from poor writing too.  
 
Erm okay rereading I don't really feel like I need to add more points lol. Emma is a great X-character and leading lady because she isn't redundantly the same as any of the other X-Characters. She brings something original to the table, and has positives and negatives that all characters have and that mix allows for great conflict and great interaction with other characters. Look at how different the X-Men female characters are? Rogue is sassy, optimistic and stubborn, with a certain pigheadedness and issues involving emotional and physical distance, and this distinguishes her from say Storm, who is tempered, weathered, refined and confident, a natural leader, but also a character that has so many different facets per her varying roles which contrasts with Emma's sarcastic intellectual cynicism, and willingness to clash with people and taking delight at people she dislikes misfortune. I mean they are all strong female characters but the cool thing is they are different. They are diverse, its really great. Emma is a great character because she provides natural tension and conflict with so many of the X-Characters who are more naturally optimistic and nice and the thing about conflict is that resolution follows, which is also great. I mean look at Rogue and Dazzler's older interaction, that stuff was great. Team members getting along well with everyone is so fake and contrived. Its so cheesy. Throw some bite into the story, I love Emma, and I love Jean and so I loved there stories together like their Nuff Said issue in Xavier's mind.  Rogue and Storm use to have a bit of conflict as well. Emma and Betsy, love both, and they have had some great moments too. Moments you can't get between Storm and Psylocke. Oh and how did I forget Emma and Kitty moments? Emma and Iceman moments, Emma and Beast moments. Emma is a great character because she allows us to see characters in a different light and they in turn allow us to see Emma in a different light. The friend (Beast) the lover (Cyclops) the antagonist (if you prefer Jean a bit more) the protagonist (if you like Emma a bit more) the rival (Kitty, interchangeable with Jean) and much less subtle parts. A few months ago one of the organizers of the Slut Walks referenced Emma Frost by name. Out of all the female comic book characters she could have mentioned, it was Emma Frost who was mentioned as a character that exemplified what being a modern, smart, intelligent, confident, independent, sexually secure, woman is all about. Emma won't shut up, she won't back down, and its great since when she is written best she doesn't need everyones approval, just those willing to look at her and recognize a great character!               
 
Great thread once again, and always great to see people having opinions and expressing them in so much detail. 
Moderator
#43 Edited by Veitha (3347 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehm, I don't think so. Emma's got a lot of personality, she's the X-Men's diamond while Jean is their cheerleader.

@SC said:

I disagree with a few points, I'll explain why and I will limit myself to a few. Other than that I love seeing lengthly posts and blogs where people express themselves, so mad props and respect.

"I think Emma has had everything handed to her on a plate. If no one agrees with me on this, then they haven’t be reading X-Men comics properly. Since Emma became X-Men leading lady. She has faced no real competition from any other X-lady. Infact, all the X- ladies have been treated very poorly by marvel, marvel made most them irrelevant, or not portraying them properly in comics."

Emma is a fictional character she isn't handed anything and the character received incredible amounts of fan backlash, as she was intended to, because Grant Morrison is the type of writer to shake up things and get people talking. Even though he isn't my favorite X-Men writer (Chris Claremont is) and even though they have very different writing styles, if you look at Chris Claremont's writing, moments like Storm drastically changing her look, having a villain character join the X-Men (Rogue) having writers do something controversial with the possibility of fan backlash has always been a part of the X-Men. I don't agree and I know the X-Men and everything like the back of my hand. How does one define competition? When Emma was introduced Jean was given equal billing and X-Men thrived, Rogue has gotten great exposure as well, and more panel time isn't always a good thing as Fraction proved with his systematic destruction of Emma that she has barely recovered from before AVX further distanced the character from the qualities many people liked about her. Emma has suffered from poor writing too. Erm okay rereading I don't really feel like I need to add more points lol. Emma is a great X-character and leading lady because she isn't redundantly the same as any of the other X-Characters. She brings something original to the table, and has positives and negatives that all characters have and that mix allows for great conflict and great interaction with other characters. Look at how different the X-Men female characters are? Rogue is sassy, optimistic and stubborn, with a certain pigheadedness and issues involving emotional and physical distance, and this distinguishes her from say Storm, who is tempered, weathered, refined and confident, a natural leader, but also a character that has so many different facets per her varying roles which contrasts with Emma's sarcastic intellectual cynicism, and willingness to clash with people and taking delight at people she dislikes misfortune. I mean they are all strong female characters but the cool thing is they are different. They are diverse, its really great. Emma is a great character because she provides natural tension and conflict with so many of the X-Characters who are more naturally optimistic and nice and the thing about conflict is that resolution follows, which is also great. I mean look at Rogue and Dazzler's older interaction, that stuff was great. Team members getting along well with everyone is so fake and contrived. Its so cheesy. Throw some bite into the story, I love Emma, and I love Jean and so I loved there stories together like their Nuff Said issue in Xavier's mind. Rogue and Storm use to have a bit of conflict as well. Emma and Betsy, love both, and they have had some great moments too. Moments you can't get between Storm and Psylocke. Oh and how did I forget Emma and Kitty moments? Emma and Iceman moments, Emma and Beast moments. Emma is a great character because she allows us to see characters in a different light and they in turn allow us to see Emma in a different light. The friend (Beast) the lover (Cyclops) the antagonist (if you prefer Jean a bit more) the protagonist (if you like Emma a bit more) the rival (Kitty, interchangeable with Jean) and much less subtle parts. A few months ago one of the organizers of the Slut Walks referenced Emma Frost by name. Out of all the female comic book characters she could have mentioned, it was Emma Frost who was mentioned as a character that exemplified what being a modern, smart, intelligent, confident, independent, sexually secure, woman is all about. Emma won't shut up, she won't back down, and its great since when she is written best she doesn't need everyones approval, just those willing to look at her and recognize a great character! Great thread once again, and always great to see people having opinions and expressing them in so much detail.

I totally agree with this post. The best thing about Emma Frost is that she's a wild card, you don't know what she'll do or what she's done and you don't know what the characters around her will react to her actions.

#44 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

Ehm, I don't think so. Emma's got a lot of personality, she's the X-Men's diamond while Jean is their cheerleader.

@SC said:

I disagree with a few points, I'll explain why and I will limit myself to a few. Other than that I love seeing lengthly posts and blogs where people express themselves, so mad props and respect.

"I think Emma has had everything handed to her on a plate. If no one agrees with me on this, then they haven’t be reading X-Men comics properly. Since Emma became X-Men leading lady. She has faced no real competition from any other X-lady. Infact, all the X- ladies have been treated very poorly by marvel, marvel made most them irrelevant, or not portraying them properly in comics."

Emma is a fictional character she isn't handed anything and the character received incredible amounts of fan backlash, as she was intended to, because Grant Morrison is the type of writer to shake up things and get people talking. Even though he isn't my favorite X-Men writer (Chris Claremont is) and even though they have very different writing styles, if you look at Chris Claremont's writing, moments like Storm drastically changing her look, having a villain character join the X-Men (Rogue) having writers do something controversial with the possibility of fan backlash has always been a part of the X-Men. I don't agree and I know the X-Men and everything like the back of my hand. How does one define competition? When Emma was introduced Jean was given equal billing and X-Men thrived, Rogue has gotten great exposure as well, and more panel time isn't always a good thing as Fraction proved with his systematic destruction of Emma that she has barely recovered from before AVX further distanced the character from the qualities many people liked about her. Emma has suffered from poor writing too. Erm okay rereading I don't really feel like I need to add more points lol. Emma is a great X-character and leading lady because she isn't redundantly the same as any of the other X-Characters. She brings something original to the table, and has positives and negatives that all characters have and that mix allows for great conflict and great interaction with other characters. Look at how different the X-Men female characters are? Rogue is sassy, optimistic and stubborn, with a certain pigheadedness and issues involving emotional and physical distance, and this distinguishes her from say Storm, who is tempered, weathered, refined and confident, a natural leader, but also a character that has so many different facets per her varying roles which contrasts with Emma's sarcastic intellectual cynicism, and willingness to clash with people and taking delight at people she dislikes misfortune. I mean they are all strong female characters but the cool thing is they are different. They are diverse, its really great. Emma is a great character because she provides natural tension and conflict with so many of the X-Characters who are more naturally optimistic and nice and the thing about conflict is that resolution follows, which is also great. I mean look at Rogue and Dazzler's older interaction, that stuff was great. Team members getting along well with everyone is so fake and contrived. Its so cheesy. Throw some bite into the story, I love Emma, and I love Jean and so I loved there stories together like their Nuff Said issue in Xavier's mind. Rogue and Storm use to have a bit of conflict as well. Emma and Betsy, love both, and they have had some great moments too. Moments you can't get between Storm and Psylocke. Oh and how did I forget Emma and Kitty moments? Emma and Iceman moments, Emma and Beast moments. Emma is a great character because she allows us to see characters in a different light and they in turn allow us to see Emma in a different light. The friend (Beast) the lover (Cyclops) the antagonist (if you prefer Jean a bit more) the protagonist (if you like Emma a bit more) the rival (Kitty, interchangeable with Jean) and much less subtle parts. A few months ago one of the organizers of the Slut Walks referenced Emma Frost by name. Out of all the female comic book characters she could have mentioned, it was Emma Frost who was mentioned as a character that exemplified what being a modern, smart, intelligent, confident, independent, sexually secure, woman is all about. Emma won't shut up, she won't back down, and its great since when she is written best she doesn't need everyones approval, just those willing to look at her and recognize a great character! Great thread once again, and always great to see people having opinions and expressing them in so much detail.

I totally agree with this post. The best thing about Emma Frost is that she's a wild card, you don't know what she'll do or what she's done and you don't know what the characters around her will react to her actions.

I totally agree with this, she's a wild card and every time she does something that seems like a villain it makes you think as a reader that she's been putting up a front but comes around and surprises you once again. I have to say she isn't the BEST X-men leading lady but she isn't the worse either. It's definitely a writers deal. Hell look at Psylocke and the big push she's gotten with Remender and X-Force and now she's leading her own XF in early 2013.

Pretty much many if not any X-women could be a viable candidate dependent on the writer of course.

#45 Posted by lorex (955 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not think Emma is the worst X-Men leading lady but she has not been written well over the last few years. Not because the writing has been bad, (well in soms cases it has been bad) but because a disproportinate share of attention was being paid to too few chartacters. This not only afflicted Emma but other X-Men characters. Also it is unfair to compare Emma to Jean as asside from telepathy and their taste in men they are not very much alike. I view Jean as Cyclops high school sweetheart and Emma and a mature adult relationship. 
 
As for who is the worst well I guess thats a matter of pesonal opinion. For a time Storm was the leading lady in the X-Men becoming the team leader. Sometimes it really depends on what characters are being used and how frequently. Rogue has been in the spotlight for the last few years and is not on Uncanny Avengers a flagship title. I would say right now Kitty is the worst leading lady. not because she is a bad character but she is not geting very much on page time lately and is mostly appearing in only one book and no I do not consider Ultimate titles because for me the X-Men in the 616 universe are the only ones that count.

#46 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

Time is right about a lot of things. I mean people say, "oh jean grey is lame she need to be more dynamic," and cr*p like that. Why dont you say that to all her ripoff? That their soul existence is to replace Jean. Which Emma is by the way, but I will get into that later. She does not need to be more dynamic she just "boring" because there are hunders of her runing around. The truth is everything the ripoffs did she done it. Also Emma frost is sooo a Jean replacement dont deny it. If it werent for Jean Grey Emma would not be as involved in comics as she is. Why arent all other the other inner circle villains as involved as Emma? The only reason Emma is involved as much as she is; is because she was made to replace Jean. Jean is the orginal Emma, Hope, Rachel, and Maydlin are replacements.

As for Emma being the wrost leading lady; considering the other X-men leading ladies are Jean, Kitty, Storm, and rogue of corse she the worst lol.

#47 Posted by nyx (114 posts) - - Show Bio

In the last few years, Marvel has treated Emma like Cyclops's arm adornment and his yes man. Look back at a few issues, where is Emma usually located? Behind Cyclops. They've muddled down Emma's personality and made her Cyclops's Mrs. Bigglesworth. All she's missing is a rhinestone collar with Cyke holding the leash. She's not a terrible leading lady, Marvel has just mistreated Emma just like any other female character. The only reason she's 'lead' lady is because she has big boobs and an S&M aspect to her personality.

Saying Jean has done more is, ah, no duh! Jean has been on the X-Men since...what, the 70s?! Do ya THINK she's done more?!

#49 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: AND WHAT?

#50 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha: Wrong she not their cheerleader; she their QUEEN XD.

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