Off My Mind: Is Eddie Brock Better as a Hero or Villain?

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Posted by G-Man (32252 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man has always had a colorful gallery of villains. While formidable, none, save Norman Osborn, really proved to be deadly. Most had cool designs but they never really gave Spider-Man too much of a fight. But then came along Eddie Brock.

Eddie first appeared as a newspaper reporter. He might have been a bit of a jerk but that didn't make him a Spider-Man villain. Eddie Brock got a tip as to who the Sin Eater was. Running the story was big for his career. When Spider-Man captured the true Sin Eater and Eddie was fired for writing a false story, his hatred for Spider-Man began.

Contemplating ending it all, the alien symbiote suit found him, they joined and Venom was born. Armed with Spider-Man's powers and knowing his secret identity, Eddie became a deadly enemy. Constantly threatening to eat Spider-Man's brains, there was no limit to what Eddie would do as Venom. Up until he decided to become a lethal protector and moved away from being a pure villain. Now as Anti-Venom, Eddie is adamant that he wants to be a hero. Is this the best move for the character?

== TEASER ==

The reality is, when villains become overly popular, the common practice is to turn them into a hero or anti-hero. Whether it's the fans or the publishers, the idea of a deadly insane killer having their own comic or miniseries is something we don't usually see.

Sometimes villains can successfully be turned good without the character completely losing their identity like Magneto or Emma Frost. Other times they simply revert back to their dark ways like Sabretooth or Sandman. The premise of the Thunderbolts is villains become heroes. Eddie Brock/Venom as a hero just never felt right.

The name Anti-Venom may not be the best but Eddie's new look and powers have potential. Eddie just hasn't been cool since he turned into a hero. There are benefits such as more exposure. I mentioned villains not being able to or allowed to carry their own books. This means they're limited to their appearances as the villain fighting a hero in the hero's book.

We all know the hero always wins and so the villain ends up looking like a chump. If a villain continued to pop into different styles, they lose their charm. Being defeated in battle after battle makes them look bad.

Seeing Eddie talk about trying to be a hero, even though he's been claiming to want to be one for years, still doesn't sound right. He almost sounds silly and juvenile claiming to have the desire to fight the real bad guys. This isn't the Eddie Brock I knew and enjoyed. Eddie needs to regain that deadly edge he once had. I'm not saying he needs to start trying to eat people's brains again but what it comes down to is, Eddie seems like a wuss.

I know I can't be the only one that wants to see Eddie simply cut loose again. In Amazing Spider-Man #663, he's chasing a drug dealer trying to find Mr. Negative. After he can't get information out of him, he simply tosses him in the river. Ooooh, real scary Mr. Brock. I'm not saying he should rip off his head or anything but throwing someone into the water isn't that big of a deal, even if the guy didn't have a towel to dry off afterwards.

The solution Marvel will most likely stick to is continue to make him an anti-hero. He could be a cold vigilante like Punisher and unleash his violent ways on the scum of the Earth. The execution of this still needs work.

In his recent miniseries, Anti-Venom: New Ways to Live, Eddie trying to save a junkie felt absurd. It's important for a character to have a human side so we can relate to them easier, especially when they're tearing their enemies apart. Eddie needs to return to his darker roots. He doesn't have to be a pure villain since they often come across as one-dimensional. Let's see a less child-like Eddie use his new powers to tear apart his enemies. Harping on about wanting to be taken seriously and not have people think he's crazy makes him sound...crazy.

I don't want Eddie necessarily to become a full-on villain again. That reduces him to villain-of-the-month appearances. It's great that he wants to do the right thing but the way he says it makes him sound too childish. Where is the harsh-talking Eddie Brock we used to have? He's been around for too long to be reduced to this need-for-redemption state. I want to see him get raw on his enemies. We don't need a touchy-feely Eddie Brock. We need something closer to what he once was.

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#1 Edited by NightFang (9976 posts) - - Show Bio

I like him as a little of both.

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#2 Posted by thesilverbeatle (645 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightFang said:

I like him as a little of both.

I definitely agree with that

#3 Posted by dementedtheclown (747 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved the team up in Spiderman Ultimate Carnage Game. He makes a great anti-hero while fighting off the deadly venom.

#4 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

" Eddie seems like a wuss." 
 
How? Because he threw someone in a river? He's trying not to be a serial killer lunatic anymore. That's the entire point. He wants to be a hero. 
 
It doesn't seem like the Eddie you read about? You kidding? He always said he was good guy. Even as Venom. The reason he was busting heads was because he had a homicidal alien messing around in his brain. And as Anti-Venom, he's still violent a lot of the time. Because he's Eddie Brock, and that's what he got used to doing. Not ripping guys in half all the time doesn't mean he's a wuss. 
 
The entire point of "saving a junkie" (who has a name, and a page on CV by the way, Jenna Cole) was to illustrate how Eddie has changed. As Venom, he could only see the bad qualities in good people (Spider-man). As Anti-Venom, he could only see the good qualities in bad (or shady) people, like Jenna.  
 
There's nothing wrong with Anti-Venom/Eddie Brock as of now.  
 
" Where is the harsh-talking Eddie Brock we used to have? He's been around for too long to be reduced to this need-for-redemption state. I want to see him get raw on his enemies. " 
 
And you just posted the picture of him shrugging off the option of TEARING OFF SOMEONE'S HEAD as "details" next to that statement. 
  

How? Tell me. Tell me HOW IS THIS NOT VICIOUS?!  
You need to re-read Anti-Venom's appearances if you think he's soft. 
 
 This is a panel STRAIGHT out of the 90s. 



Oh and by the way, these pics (minus the first big scan)? All found in Eddie's image gallery. I didn't have to quest for the holy grail to know that Eddie Brock's not a wuss as Anti-Venom. SMH.
#5 Posted by UnosInfinitos (149 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the problem with pure bred villain book is that people don't like seeing selfish people get their way, that's the whole point of giving villains redeeming qualities. Like Lex Luthor desire to be seen by the world in positive light, The Joker's humor and goofy/sexy sidekick Harley and evil Doctor Light's lameness.
Because as we seen with anti-heroes like Punisher people don't care if their heroes are murdering psychopaths, ironic considering the saying "actions speak louder than words" . As long as the hero has a reason to his/her rhyme and that reason isn't selfish everything ready to set sail.

#6 Posted by FNspiderdan (38 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 
 thank you for saving me time. i was going to say and do all of that hahaa

#7 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

InnerVenom just slaughtered this article, lmao.

#8 Posted by Man of Lengend (1001 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCerealKillz said:
InnerVenom just slaughtered this article, lmao.
indeed
#9 Posted by Batmarcus (103 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think of him as a hero he's an anti-hero and personally I like him more as Anti-Venom then as Venom (sorry Eddie/Venom fans its an opinion.)

#10 Posted by Eyz (3095 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sort of used to Eddie being an anti-hero. 
As in, a hero most of the time,
but still wanting to eat Pete's brains. :D
 
@InnerVenom123 said:

" Eddie seems like a wuss." 
 
How? Because he threw someone in a river? He's trying not to be a serial killer lunatic anymore. That's the entire point. He wants to be a hero. 
 
It doesn't seem like the Eddie you read about? You kidding? He always said he was good guy. Even as Venom. The reason he was busting heads was because he had a homicidal alien messing around in his brain. And as Anti-Venom, he's still violent a lot of the time. Because he's Eddie Brock, and that's what he got used to doing. Not ripping guys in half all the time doesn't mean he's a wuss. 
 
The entire point of "saving a junkie" (who has a name, and a page on CV by the way, Jenna Cole) was to illustrate how Eddie has changed. As Venom, he could only see the bad qualities in good people (Spider-man). As Anti-Venom, he could only see the good qualities in bad (or shady) people, like Jenna.  
 
There's nothing wrong with Anti-Venom/Eddie Brock as of now.  
 
" Where is the harsh-talking Eddie Brock we used to have? He's been around for too long to be reduced to this need-for-redemption state. I want to see him get raw on his enemies. " 
 
And you just posted the picture of him shrugging off the option of TEARING OFF SOMEONE'S HEAD as "details" next to that statement. 
  

How? Tell me. Tell me HOW IS THIS NOT VICIOUS?!  
You need to re-read Anti-Venom's appearances if you think he's soft. 
 
 This is a panel STRAIGHT out of the 90s. 



Oh and by the way, these pics (minus the first big scan)? All found in Eddie's image gallery. I didn't have to quest for the holy grail to know that Eddie Brock's not a wuss as Anti-Venom. SMH.

He says/screams ENOUGH!!! a lot though, no? :P
#11 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
@Eyz: He only said "ENOUGH" one time. How is that "a lot"??? 
#12 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio

I for one enjoy him being Anti-Venom and think he should stay that way now. Flash as Venom on the other hand, I'm not that sure yet.
#13 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
@pulseangel666 said:
I for one enjoy him being Anti-Venom and think he should stay that way now. Flash as Venom on the other hand, I'm not that sure yet.
 
 How about now? 
#14 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio

im likin eddie the way he is now the anti-venom look is great, but his personality is really getting annoying nowadays he's always goin"drugs are bad, im hear to heal people of their sickness'" and its gettin real old real fast. 
 
we get it you had an addiction, and got cancer, Shut up at fight crime, don't ***** about it.

#15 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

what in the world is an anti venom

#16 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio
@jubilee042 said:

                what in the world is an anti venom
           

In the comics, Eddie Brocks new alias, as a hero, in real life, something you give to people that have been bitten by snakes, spiders and such..
#17 Posted by tbone1225 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

can't he be both?

#18 Posted by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

I really dig Eddie's awesome new threads.

#19 Posted by cyberninja (10413 posts) - - Show Bio

May be anti-venom should change his name to anti-hero.

#20 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio
@NightFang said:
I like him as a little of both.
#21 Posted by Frobin (96 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never really liked Eddie Brock as Venom, though I really love Venom as a villain. But he's a "vivtim character" in my opinion, a bit like Bruce Banner/ Hulk - just Venom being really bad. I also don't see anything interesting in a Hero or Anti-Hero-Venom ... it's just lame. 
 
Venom in my eyes is an alien monster in need for a human host. Togehter with the host it makes the characters and Venom at it's best means he has a host nearly as bad as himself - so Venom is a major threat.  
 
I really loved MacGargan as Venom ... totally maniac, totally wayward, untamable ... and I love Carnage. Really great! I see no sense in an Anti-Venom. Venom and all his offsprings has to be major threat beasts and monsters.

#22 Posted by ClawRavenscroft (98 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like him no matter if evil, good or semi good. 
He could just disapear and never show up again. :P
#23 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
He would be best as an anti-hero.
#24 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCerealKillz said:
InnerVenom just slaughtered this article, lmao.
Yeup. 
 
I like Eddie fighting supervillains but as a Spider-Man villain. He should want to kill and eat Spider-Man, but only because he sees him as a supervillain.
#25 Posted by EnSabac (40 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm liking this story path for Brock. I thought them writing that he was dying of cancer was pathetic. Eddie makes a great anti hero as the Anti-Venom but he needs to find a new name.

#26 Posted by NottheFacePlease (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-hero.

#27 Posted by Sammo21 (692 posts) - - Show Bio

Both...Brock was always at odds with spider-man and the way he wanted to deal justice out...shouldn't be any different.

#28 Posted by brc2000 (1679 posts) - - Show Bio

He's been pretty fun as Anti-Venom so far. With all the anti-heroes in Marvel it's nice to have one that has a slight goofy tinge but isn't over the top goofy like Deadpool, or completely heartless like Fantomex.

#29 Posted by Mr. Dead Pool (2625 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123: You hit the nail on the head my friend! 
#30 Posted by Erik (32265 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the better question is: Who really cares?

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#31 Posted by zombietag (1493 posts) - - Show Bio

i think the best thing about eddie is that he isnt a hero or a villian, hes inbetween but hes not quite a typical anti-hero. 
 
hes someone who really wants to be good but is just a little sick. thats what makes him fun, he wants to do the right thing but sometimes it a twisted version of how others would do it. i love it.

#32 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Eddie seems to be the guy that wants to do good, but had such a messed up life he cant do good things properly

#33 Posted by pspin (891 posts) - - Show Bio

I like him as both, more as Anti-Venom because we see him more instead of every once in a while. 
 
I see what G-Man is saying when it seems like some of these actions are out of character for Eddie/ Anti-Venom and he has a point. From what I have seen he has not been that violent until the last several encounters with Mr. Negative . 
 
When he sees Mr. Negative, he goes ballistic and startes trying to kill everyone in a Venom-like fashion. But when he is going up agsinst a street level thug he gets soft. 
 
I think the writers need to find balacne for him. Personally I would like to see him more violent because it reminds me of classic Venom, one of my favorite supervillains
#34 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11652 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:
" Eddie seems like a wuss." 
 
How? Because he threw someone in a river? He's trying not to be a serial killer lunatic anymore. That's the entire point. He wants to be a hero. 
 
It doesn't seem like the Eddie you read about? You kidding? He always said he was good guy. Even as Venom. The reason he was busting heads was because he had a homicidal alien messing around in his brain. And as Anti-Venom, he's still violent a lot of the time. Because he's Eddie Brock, and that's what he got used to doing. Not ripping guys in half all the time doesn't mean he's a wuss. 
 
The entire point of "saving a junkie" (who has a name, and a page on CV by the way, Jenna Cole) was to illustrate how Eddie has changed. As Venom, he could only see the bad qualities in good people (Spider-man). As Anti-Venom, he could only see the good qualities in bad (or shady) people, like Jenna.  
 
There's nothing wrong with Anti-Venom/Eddie Brock as of now.  
 
" Where is the harsh-talking Eddie Brock we used to have? He's been around for too long to be reduced to this need-for-redemption state. I want to see him get raw on his enemies. " 
 
And you just posted the picture of him shrugging off the option of TEARING OFF SOMEONE'S HEAD as "details" next to that statement. 
  

How? Tell me. Tell me HOW IS THIS NOT VICIOUS?!  
You need to re-read Anti-Venom's appearances if you think he's soft. 
 
 This is a panel STRAIGHT out of the 90s. 



Oh and by the way, these pics (minus the first big scan)? All found in Eddie's image gallery. I didn't have to quest for the holy grail to know that Eddie Brock's not a wuss as Anti-Venom. SMH.
Thank you! I was bout to say something about then I see you. You made my day with this post. = )
#35 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123: Just EPIC. Very well written post man. 
:)
#36 Posted by Band Lone (1789 posts) - - Show Bio

Hes better as a lethal protector

#37 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
@InnerVenom123: Just EPIC. Very well written post man. :)
Thanks! And while you're here, you can help me prove my point! 
 
 I'd say beating the tar out of Spider-man for a simple misunderstanding is VERY MUCH SO like the Eddie of olden days. 
#38 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

I think he is a good villian and a decent anti hero...not really a good hero. In the most recent issue I thought painted him kinda as an idiot.
#39 Posted by spidey 15 (17756 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123: LOL, true. 
:)
#40 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12931 posts) - - Show Bio

i like him as both. he seens to have overall the same personality just with some minor adjustment. 
nice too see he still has his long monlolouges about so and so being scum. 
#41 Posted by HellionVulcan (3725 posts) - - Show Bio

Eddie brock is alot like the Juggernaut in how they're handled ,they're always sorta a villain then sorta a hero but anti-hero is where he should stay .

#42 Posted by maxicere (936 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Eddie Brock in Venom costume, like villain. I don't like de Anti Venom

#43 Posted by VSG413 (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets keep Anti-Venom as an Anti-Hero and everything in the world would make a lot ore sense. :-)

#44 Posted by leokearon (1788 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-Venom the Anit-Hero
#45 Posted by AlKusanagi (602 posts) - - Show Bio

I always considered Venom (as in the symbiote itself) to be the villain, where Eddie was just it's pathetic pawn. The actual character of Eddie Brock was a broken man, with nothing left but hatred for a single individual, and the suit used it to its advantage. Once Eddie started to "find himself" and gain a measure of control over the suit, he probably started to become the man he was before his life was "destroyed" by Peter.

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#46 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

Villain, the big two's really de-fanged their best villains. 

#47 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
@They Killed Cap! said:
I think he is a good villian and a decent anti hero...not really a good hero. In the most recent issue I thought painted him kinda as an idiot.
How is he an idiot? He's overly optimistic and unstable. That's not idiocy. 
#48 Posted by Kairan1979 (16723 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's keep Anti-Venom as anti-hero. Eddie as a hero doesn't make sense.

#49 Posted by ImperiousRix (1069 posts) - - Show Bio
@alkusanagi said:

I always considered Venom (as in the symbiote itself) to be the villain, where Eddie was just it's pathetic pawn. The actual character of Eddie Brock was a broken man, with nothing left but hatred for a single individual, and the suit used it to its advantage. Once Eddie started to "find himself" and gain a measure of control over the suit, he probably started to become the man he was before his life was "destroyed" by Peter.

I agree, and as such I think that people who like the character of Eddie Brock himself rather than the symbiote, Venom, like him regardless of his status as hero, anti-hero, or villain.  I think the problem right now is Eddie's getting too much "direction" from too many different writers, and nobody knows what exactly to do with him.
#50 Posted by kfhrfdu_89_76k (3724 posts) - - Show Bio
@erik:   
I do. (Nyah nyah.) 
 
I like him as both. But more as the darker version of Spidey. 

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