Should she just become Ronin again?

#1 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't have lots of Maya Lopez exposure before she was Ronin but I think she was kinda interesting as Ronin. I don't think she should continue to pretend to be a man but she could redesign her Ronin costume to be more feminine and be a badass ninja again. I'd just like to hear from her again.

#2 Posted by Shadowsnake89 (415 posts) - - Show Bio
@PrinceIMC: Sadly thanks to Michael Bendis she won't be heard from ever again. She got killed by Count Nefaria in the last Moon Knight book.
#3 Posted by Mercy_ (92871 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shadowsnake89 said:

@PrinceIMC: Sadly thanks to Michael Bendis she won't be heard from ever again. She got killed by Count Nefaria in the last Moon Knight book.

WAIT WHAT. How did I miss this? D:

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#4 Posted by FinnVarra (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly they should just let the whole Ronin concept die off. They took a pretty massive mistep with that whole Alexei Shostakov business.

#5 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@Shadowsnake89 said:
@PrinceIMC: Sadly thanks to Michael Bendis she won't be heard from ever again. She got killed by Count Nefaria in the last Moon Knight book.
o_O she may come back eventually though. You cant ever count characters out in comics. But that sucks. Echo has/had great potential.
#6 Posted by Shadowsnake89 (415 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler: It seems weird that Bendis put so much characterization into characters like her and then kills them off. He even got Madame Masque a few issues later.
#7 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shadowsnake89: I don't think he ever liked Echo...

Look at how he handled her:

- Bendis wanted Daredevil to be Ronin... he couldn't so he postponed introducing Ronin... when he still couldn't use Daredevil, he decided to make it Echo... some obscure Daredevil character from a couple of years ago.

- After one short story fighting ninjas, Echo doesn't join the team properly and disappears for 20 issues without any mention whatsoever.

- She returns later but only to conveniently give the Ronin identity to another character.

- She hangs around in the background doing absolutely nothing except sleeping with Clint in one issue.

- She disappears without any mention after Secret Invasion and none of the characters care.

- She returns in a panel in New Avengers in the nanny gag page pointing out how forgotten about she is.

- She returns in Moon Knight to die.

This isn't the work of a man who cared about the character. It's naive to say he did.

#8 Posted by Shadowsnake89 (415 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35: All good points. I just hope he doesn't do the same to the Hood. One of my favorite villains, also he is the only person who felt like using him. As long as he doesn't kill him off I'll still give him a chance.
#9 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35 said:

- Bendis wanted Daredevil to be Ronin... he couldn't so he postponed introducing Ronin... when he still couldn't use Daredevil, he decided to make it Echo... some obscure Daredevil character from a couple of years ago.


Interesting, I had never heard of that. But the (slightly off topic) question is, why couldn't he use Daredevil? He was the writer of both books at the time, so I'm not certain who might had vetoed the use of the character in New Avengers as Ronin.
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#10 Posted by TDK_1997 (14988 posts) - - Show Bio

She was interesting as Ronin and I would love to see her as Ronin again.

#11 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@X35 said:

- Bendis wanted Daredevil to be Ronin... he couldn't so he postponed introducing Ronin... when he still couldn't use Daredevil, he decided to make it Echo... some obscure Daredevil character from a couple of years ago.

Interesting, I had never heard of that. But the (slightly off topic) question is, why couldn't he use Daredevil? He was the writer of both books at the time, so I'm not certain who might had vetoed the use of the character in New Avengers as Ronin.

Actually, he'd just finished writing Daredevil or was very nearing the end at the time (I think a few issues were still to come out, but behind-the-scenes Brubaker was starting to write his stuff). Something like that... I think the fact he didn't get to play with his preferred choice shows considering how Ronin vanished after that first arc only to come back and give the costume to another character Bendis thinks is "cool". It stinks of "crap... we've had Ronin appear on all our covers but we've not actually had him in the book yet... Ed says we still can't use Daredevil... uh... I know, i'll introduce the character now as someone else and just drop them until something better comes along... that's it..."

#12 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35 said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@X35 said:

- Bendis wanted Daredevil to be Ronin... he couldn't so he postponed introducing Ronin... when he still couldn't use Daredevil, he decided to make it Echo... some obscure Daredevil character from a couple of years ago.

Interesting, I had never heard of that. But the (slightly off topic) question is, why couldn't he use Daredevil? He was the writer of both books at the time, so I'm not certain who might had vetoed the use of the character in New Avengers as Ronin.

Actually, he'd just finished writing Daredevil or was very nearing the end at the time (I think a few issues were still to come out, but behind-the-scenes Brubaker was starting to write his stuff). Something like that... I think the fact he didn't get to play with his preferred choice shows considering how Ronin vanished after that first arc only to come back and give the costume to another character Bendis thinks is "cool". It stinks of "crap... we've had Ronin appear on all our covers but we've not actually had him in the book yet... Ed says we still can't use Daredevil... uh... I know, i'll introduce the character now as someone else and just drop them until something better comes along... that's it..."

The other reason was that Marvel wanted Echo's identity to remain a mystery, and every guessed it was Daredevil straight away, so Marvel decided to change it to someone else. 
#13 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: Actually, people assumed that but Bendis says that isn't the case in the introduction to the New Avengers hardcover I have (don't ask why i bought it).............he seems quite sincere and pithy because he logically couldn't use Daredevil since Brubaker was following through with having him being in jail and having Danny Rand being Daredevil........Bendis kinda shot himself in the foot anticipating the next Daredevil writer wouldn't follow up on his plot.......

of course nowadays, Bendis would just use him anyway and probably have a brush off comment like "oh, no jail can hold the man without fear"...

#14 Posted by Purgy (419 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@X35 said:

@Morpheus_ said:

@X35 said:

- Bendis wanted Daredevil to be Ronin... he couldn't so he postponed introducing Ronin... when he still couldn't use Daredevil, he decided to make it Echo... some obscure Daredevil character from a couple of years ago.

Interesting, I had never heard of that. But the (slightly off topic) question is, why couldn't he use Daredevil? He was the writer of both books at the time, so I'm not certain who might had vetoed the use of the character in New Avengers as Ronin.

Actually, he'd just finished writing Daredevil or was very nearing the end at the time (I think a few issues were still to come out, but behind-the-scenes Brubaker was starting to write his stuff). Something like that... I think the fact he didn't get to play with his preferred choice shows considering how Ronin vanished after that first arc only to come back and give the costume to another character Bendis thinks is "cool". It stinks of "crap... we've had Ronin appear on all our covers but we've not actually had him in the book yet... Ed says we still can't use Daredevil... uh... I know, i'll introduce the character now as someone else and just drop them until something better comes along... that's it..."

The other reason was that Marvel wanted Echo's identity to remain a mystery, and every guessed it was Daredevil straight away, so Marvel decided to change it to someone else.

They need to bring Echo back.

#15 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Purgy: Considering she just died in a story by the only writer who ever "used" her......the same writer who seemed to hate her.........i doubt she has much chance of returning.......

#16 Posted by Purgy (419 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@Purgy: Considering she just died in a story by the only writer who ever "used" her......the same writer who seemed to hate her.........i doubt she has much chance of returning.......

That is correct unless another writer takes it and some how or some way brings her back.

#17 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35: It was roughly six months before the Murdock Papers concluded, and afterwards Brubaker would have had Daredevil being imprisoned, but honestly, I don't see that being as a major problem; the Ronin story could have simply been set prior to events of Brubaker's Devil in Cell Block D. It just seems odd not to use Daredevil because of that, is all.
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#19 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35: Thanks. 
 
It more so seems that the switch was made because everyone thought it would be Daredevil (along with the additional reveal), not because Daredevil was unavailable, at least at first.
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