Dragon Debate.

#1 Posted by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is a debate that has gone on between myself and a customer in the comic book store I work at. I would like you all to weigh in on this.

Troy (Me): Okay so if you had to pit a gargatuan red dragon against a behemoth from the final fantasy series. just a regular behemoth and not king. the fight takes place in the middle of the arctic mountains, dragon is allowed to fly. who wins the battle. honestly though I think I made this battle too easy for the behemoth.

Jeff: Nope, Dragon wins. just for the sole purpose it can fly.

Troy: Wait, the dragon is a lizard right?

Jeff: Magical Lizard..

Troy: okay but even for a moment if we had to give normal classifications it would still be deemed a reptile by any definition.

Jeff: Yeah okay. so you are saying it would be affected by the cold weather much like a regular lizard?

Troy: that is EXACTLY what im saying. the cold air would slow it down, allowing the behemoth to finish it off.

Jeff: Its a red dragon it would give off a heat aura.

Troy: I give off a heat aura naturally, but does that mean it protects me from 45 mph winds in arctic weather.

Jeff: Even still. its a large creature that is used to the cold of underground caves which have been know to have some ice forming.

Troy: Not even, Red Dragons are notorious for stealing treasure to line its caves to act as a nest.

Jeff: Shiny objects are not exactly my idea of insulation for a cave. that is hardly debatable.

Troy: Your mom is debatable, I still think the red dragon would lose to the behemoth based on reptile like physiology and anatomy.

So what do you all think? am I right about the dragon losing based on physiology? please leave your answers down below.

#2 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

No, because Dragons are magic and magic doesn't give two s***s about physiology. 

#3 Posted by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

even if it is magical its a tropical/temperate dragon in a arctic area. he is at a tactical disadvantage due to it would be slowed down based on the cold air.

#4 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Trodorne said:

even if it is magical its a tropical/temperate dragon in a arctic area. he is at a tactical disadvantage due to it would be slowed down based on the cold air.

Except magic could nullify that advantage.  
After all it's not natural for lizards to spit fire. 
Freakin' magic is the great equalizer. 
#5 Posted by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite:

Okay even if the damn LIZARD was magical, the spells it would use are based on its nature. which would be fire, as well as evil spells and maybe some illusionary spells. it would have natural resistance to certain types of damages, in a red dragons case fire. but in this case they are still not immune to the laws of nature. That dragon if making a snap decision would either run cause its not in its own tactical advantage or fight and die in cold Arctic weather.

#6 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Trodorne: You're assuming that the magical beast of immense power is under the same rules as a common creature.  
Dragons are mostly known for living in cold northern regions(think Skyrim for instance) so your argument that they'd be unable to survive in such an environment is kind of null there pal.  
Anyway, I don't think you understand my opinion here, I think that magic usurps natural stuff in most cases. 
#7 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Machida beats Overeem goddammit!

#8 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're going by D&D standards, the dragon would be having a tough time because dragons can't fly too well if the conditions are harsh in any environment, and red dragons in particular are actually susceptible to cold attacks and cold damage, moreso than other types of damage.

If we're going by common mythology, I have no idea.

#9 Posted by ImmortalT1000 (3170 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trodorne said:

even if it is magical its a tropical/temperate dragon in a arctic area. he is at a tactical disadvantage due to it would be slowed down based on the cold air.

this

#10 Posted by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: Skyrim was different but the same. When you look at the dragons there, they were doing one of two things, it was either sleeping to conserve energy, or they were flying and looking for food. and even in skyrim there were a variety of dragons based on the areas you went too from frost dragons to fire dragons. but the game was super glitchy its hard to get accurate assessment.

#11 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Trodorne: My point is just because they're lizard like doesn't mean they follow the same rules as other lizards. 
Because they're magic. 
#12 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

If you're looking for a non-magic answer, then yes, the dragons would be screwed for multiple reasons in that climate.

1: They're unfamiliar with it.

2: They might not be able to fly with those winds.

3: The cold is something they are susceptible to as lizards, I believe red dragons are supposed to be in relatively warm climates or mountainous but arid areas (i.e. probably not much ice)

4: Metallic objects made out of silver or gold are conductors, not insulators, so they would offer next to zero insulation long-term

5: Visibility in snowy, windy climates is very low for animals not adapted to those climates

6: Fire breath might, just might, not work as well in that climate, but that is purely conjecture.

If we're counting magic and crap, and not going by D&D... I have no idea.

#13 Posted by Matchstick (565 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry but there is no clear winner to this argument. In attempting to answer the question you are forced to make certain assumptions on how the dragon's physiology works. Since dragons don't have universal attributes across all their depictions it really depends on what portrayal of dragons you use for a reference.

#14 Posted by MFrenzy11 (467 posts) - - Show Bio

i think the dragon would win cuz of the fire breath

#15 Posted by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont think trying to mix logic with Magic is ever a good plan for an argument.

#16 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

Your reply "Your mom is debatable" made me LOL. That was the equivalent of the white man's version of a 'yo mama' joke that blacks are famous for. Classic and off putting with the subtlety and all.

#17 Posted by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if we count magic. the idea is that magic though can do just about anything still works within a realm of reason and science. Creating a magical fireball in your hand does not mean ****, if 34 mph head winds keep blowing it out. So magical flames in the physical sense still react to the physical environment around them as regular flames.

#18 Posted by Lunacyde (17976 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trodorne: You can't just disregard the fact it's a mystical creature. There are dragons that live purely in arctic regions (fictionally speaking). Cold should not effect it.

#19 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually there are several instances of magical flames being unaffected in several depictions spread across fiction. So even now your assertions about how magic is effected by natural laws falls apart. 

#20 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trodorne: Cold-ass Skyrim never seemed to slow the Dragons down much

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#21 Posted by Trodorne (2574 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lunacyde: Im not saying it is not magical. most of its spells and spell like abilities for the red revolve around evil,fire, and chaos domains. None of which focus on protecting it from natural elements. in terms of the ice based dragons they would exist but are retarded as all hell. that is why im basing this on the red dragon.

@Jonny_Anonymous: In skyrim you had different dragons spread across the place so its hard to actually gauge if the cold weather has lasting effect if they just flown in on the cold parts of the place. last I checked only 3 kingdoms were perpetually covered in snow. Windhelm which rarely saw dragon attacks, Dawnstar saw more than the others, Winterhold which was in perpetual snow storm all the time. Ive had 1 dragon fight in that city once and they always flew out of the city to a more open area.

@Decoy Elite: You are comparing a magical creature out of its element trying to take down this...

#22 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Trodorne: I'm not arguing the fight, I'm arguing what you purposed in the thread. I couldn't care less about who wins the fight, I'm only here to say that magic totally can and usually does nullify natural laws. 
If you want people to argue the fight then you need to make a Battle thread.
#23 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trodorne: the Dragon attacks (unless named) are random in Skyrim, it doesn't matter if you didn't see many in the colder parts of the map because that's not definite across the board for all players

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