What Nightwing Needs to Be A-list

#1 Posted by AwesomeHobos (5 posts) - - Show Bio

This is my first post so forgive me for spelling errors and/or any other mishaps.

There are three things the new-52 Nightwing needs to be A-list: Swagger, Mythology, and Exposure Outside of Comics

Swagger:

Nightwing as a character needs swagger. In the New-52, while he hasn't been put in too many situations where you could see a true Nightwing swagger, he hasn't shown much of it. What I mean by swagger is that confidence he has from years of training and the cockiness that just comes with being Nightwing.

Then of course there is the costume. The new Brett Booth one is amazing (except for the fact that it's red and doesn't have his symbol). While it solves most of the problems he has it needs to stay long enough to become iconic. Then there needs to be an incorporation of his symbol. If it was me it would be added to the stripe of the chest. It wouldn't be touching the rest of the stripe and the holes would be filled in with red (blue if they keep the red costume) and there would be a red outline on the rest of the stripe, all the way down to the finger stripes.

The last thing when it comes to swagger is the fact that it's time for the mane to go. I know I might get a lot of flack for this, but it needs to be cleaner, something like the Injustice model, but with a little more volume.

Mythology

This is the biggest issue. Everything Dick's ever had has been torn down when it was convenient for a batman story (Haly's Circus and Bludhaven (probably spelled that wrong)). He need's his own supporting cast, which he'll probably get in Chicago, and they should bring back the years when he was a police officer, something that would put a good bit of distance between him and Bruce. He also needs a nemesis, one he can call all his own. Not Deathstroke, he could almost be called Green Arrow's Nemesis and Blockbuster just doesn't work. There is no one in the new-52 so that is a major area to address. He needs to stop being defined as "Oh he used to be robin"

Exposure Outside of Comics

He need's a tv show, a movie, a game, and an animated tv show. I also believe that when the new Justice League movie comes out he should take Batman's place. Bruce has been in to many movies, what if they got it wrong for the JL movie. Use Christian Bale to cameo and put Nightwing in his place

That's it. Thanks for reading.

#2 Posted by mpierce2690 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

He really needs to just distance himself from Batman a bit.

Nightwing is a more than respectable hero in his own right and in a lot of ways, rivals Batman. He needs to build up his own rogues gallery, his own supporting cast, and moving to Chicago will be good for him because this is likely going to be the outcome.

#3 Posted by Extremis (2959 posts) - - Show Bio

This is my first post so forgive me for spelling errors and/or any other mishaps.

There are three things the new-52 Nightwing needs to be A-list: Swagger, Mythology, and Exposure Outside of Comics

Swagger:

Nightwing as a character needs swagger. In the New-52, while he hasn't been put in too many situations where you could see a true Nightwing swagger, he hasn't shown much of it. What I mean by swagger is that confidence he has from years of training and the cockiness that just comes with being Nightwing.

Nightwing has shown his confidence IMO. We shouldn't confuse Dick's confidence with cockiness though. I don't want Nightwing to be misrepresented as cocky. Damian was cocky. Jason (as Robin) was cocky. Dick is confident.

#4 Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Dick as a character one of my favorite Batman characters. and dosen't he have a series Nightwing (2012-)?

#5 Edited by Alak (867 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Nightwing's feats were pretty good in his own books (aside from that ridiculous one-sided "fight" with Shiva). It's his representation in the other books that I find iffy. It's like whenever he joins up with the bat-family, the writers really downgrade him so that he doesn't steal Batman's thunder. I agree that a supporting cast is a definite must-have for Dick, kind of like his neighbors in Bludhaven before Blockbuster had the apartment blown up. He's probably the most social DC hero, so it's really important to give him friends to interact with to show the reader more about his true character.

#6 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

In terms of "Swagger", i'd say Dick has and always has had the confidence angle down. That's a trademark of his character that other Robin's can only ever imitate. The costume bit I agree on personally. In general, Dick's logo needs to become more mainstream. Anyone from the 90s will recognize this one:

And the recently, and unfortunately, cancelled Young Justice series used a similar one:

making these versions of the logo very well known. However, i've never felt that Dick's comic chest symbols have received nearly as much attention. It's fairly easy to come across a T-Shirt or hoodie with the logos from the animated series, or even YJ, but i've never seen one from the comics. Brand recognition is a major part of a character's popularity, and while I love both BTAS and YJ, and will always watch the episodes, I think Nightwing as he exists in the comics needs more attention.

Then I completely agree with the "Mythology" part of things, even made my own thread about it lol that's what i'm hoping for most from this new city. He needs his own supporting cast, his own rogues gallery, and his own story that's separate from the rest of the Bat Family.

Also agree with exposure outside of the comics. I don't agree with him being in the JLA movie, but its definitely time for Dick to get his own series. It began with BTAS and TNBA, then continued in TT, which focused on Dick more than any other character. Led to YJ, which again did the same and placed him in a leading role next to Bruce. If he got a good series, animated or live action, he'd become even more mainstream and be put on the map.

#7 Posted by SuperJedi17 (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Some1 should tweet brett booth and kyle higgins about incorporating the symbol to his suit eventually.I really want to see that.

#8 Edited by Dark_Guyver (2059 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing is A list! Everything you mentioned he already has.

#9 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing is A list! Everything you mentioned he already has.

When did he get his own movie, tv show or video game?

Also have to point out he's currently lacking in the supporting cast/mythology area.

#10 Edited by Dark_Guyver (2059 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: There are tons of A listers that don't have their own movies, games, or tv shows. That argument is totally invalid.

#11 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark_guyver said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: There are tons of A listers that don't have their own movies, games, or tv shows. That argument is totally invalid.

Uh, that's part of what the OP listed as his definition of an A-List character, and you said Dick already had all that. Then there's also the lack of a supporting cast that he mentioned. I'm pointing out that by the OP's definition of it, you're wrong.

#12 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2059 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: No, you're wrong. But I have better things to do than argue with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

#13 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: No, you're wrong. But I have better things to do than argue with someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Whatev's man.

"Everything you mentioned he already has"

OP mentioned a game, Nightwing has no game. Mentioned a movie, Nightwing has no movie. Mentioned a TV Show, Nightwing has no show. Mentioned an animated series, Nightwing has no series. Mentioned a strong supporting cast, Nightwing has none. LOL but somehow Nightwing has all these things as you said? Ok dude.

#14 Edited by tec79 (144 posts) - - Show Bio

A good solo title would be where to start, think about where Green Lantern was a decade ago. Finding a good way to explore Nightwing's time as Batman and using the 5 year gap to show some of his history and set up a respectable rogues gallery would help a lot. DC has to find a way to raise his profile outside of appearances in Batman titles and tie ins. I think after 19 issues it is time for a new creative team and no editorial interference, allowing the character to grow organically in the New 52.

#15 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

@tec79 said:

A good solo title would be where to start, think about where Green Lantern was a decade ago. Finding a good way to explore Nightwing's time as Batman and using the 5 year gap to show some of his history and set up a respectable rogues gallery would help a lot. DC has to find a way to raise his profile outside of appearances in Batman titles and tie ins. I think after 19 issues it is time for a new creative team and no editorial interference, allowing the character to grow organically in the New 52.

So when you say solo title do you mean just making his current title better, or a completely separate title? Similar how to Batman has so many titles that explore different aspects of his character, and GL tends to do the same thing nowadays.

#16 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing is an A-list character, due to him being the most famous Robin, and everyone knows who Robin is because he;s always shown with Batman.

#17 Posted by fodigg (6094 posts) - - Show Bio

Exposure

This is pretty much all he needs. If they announced they were continuing Nolan's trilogy with a new run of "Nightwing" films, starring what's-his-face instead of Grayson, the character would be a household name overnight. "Robin" is one of DC's most widely known properties, which makes Nightwing an easy concept to sell.

"Nightwing? Who's that?"

"He's the first Robin all grown up."

"Oh. Nice ass."

"Yeah, that's his bat-symbol."

Easy.

#18 Edited by tec79 (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: Just improving his current solo title and building his mythology out form there. Once that is accomplished I would love to see him appear in a team book.Without the benefit of a strong rogues gallery, I do not see how he could carry a second solo title unless it was set in the past and featured him moving on from his time as Robin.

#19 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

@tec79 said:

@nathaniel_christopher: Just improving his current solo title and building his mythology out form there. Once that is accomplished I would love to see him appear in a team book.Without the benefit of a strong rogues gallery, I do not see how he could carry a second solo title unless it was set in the past and featured him moving on from his time as Robin.

Yeah that's what I thought you might mean when you mentioned his history as Batman.

#20 Posted by Jayc1324 (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

He was the first robin and always will be, you can't wipe that away. Everything he is is because of batman, or he still would've been in an orphanage. Batman defines him.

#21 Posted by SmoothJammin (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Call me crazy but I sort of enjoy his status as borderline A-Lister. I've always thought his gateway to being an elite guy starts with joining the league. Not as leader of course, we already have one of those on the team (your mileage may vary as to whom it is). I like the idea of him being a gifted prospect on the team, and Supes/Bats recognizing it early, thus creating a power struggle where both men seek him out and help to guide him on his path to greatness leading Dick to have to choose between the two at times.

Typing on your phone while buying groceries is tough man.

#22 Posted by vernierhawk001 (514 posts) - - Show Bio

Call me crazy but I sort of enjoy his status as borderline A-Lister. I've always thought his gateway to being an elite guy starts with joining the league. Not as leader of course, we already have one of those on the team (your mileage may vary as to whom it is). I like the idea of him being a gifted prospect on the team, and Supes/Bats recognizing it early, thus creating a power struggle where both men seek him out and help to guide him on his path to greatness leading Dick to have to choose between the two at times.

Typing on your phone while buying groceries is tough man.

So I kind of want to see Dick and Bruce have more of that brotherly relationship that seems to be implied by the new timeline. More legit partnership than Batman saying "nightwing, do this...."

#23 Posted by vernierhawk001 (514 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

He was the first robin and always will be, you can't wipe that away. Everything he is is because of batman, or he still would've been in an orphanage. Batman defines him.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting to totally cut the Batman connection. It just seems that DC tends to let Batman overshadow him in laughable ways. Pre-N52 they found ways to make Nightwing stand on his own feet, as it were (primarily through his interaction with other characters).

#24 Posted by Knightfall225 (1113 posts) - - Show Bio

they would never replace batman with nightwing in a justice league movie.....

#25 Edited by NovaRichRider (327 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm fine with the way Nightwing is. I don't want to see him making meaningless appearances in other comics like Batman or Wolverine.

#26 Posted by dropkickjake (27 posts) - - Show Bio

So I kind of want to see Dick and Bruce have more of that brotherly relationship that seems to be implied by the new timeline. More legit partnership than Batman saying "nightwing, do this...."

Yeah, as much as I hate the father/son relationship being taken away, I am interested in the new potential dynamic. Their interaction in the first 15 or so issues of Batman make it clear that Bruce still has a tighter bond with Dick than with the other Batfamily members (minus Alfred of course). I'm open to this being because of quality of relationship rather than quantity of time. It can be more like uncle nephew than father son. I'm cool with that.

#27 Posted by vernierhawk001 (514 posts) - - Show Bio

@vernierhawk001 said:

So I kind of want to see Dick and Bruce have more of that brotherly relationship that seems to be implied by the new timeline. More legit partnership than Batman saying "nightwing, do this...."

Yeah, as much as I hate the father/son relationship being taken away, I am interested in the new potential dynamic. Their interaction in the first 15 or so issues of Batman make it clear that Bruce still has a tighter bond with Dick than with the other Batfamily members (minus Alfred of course). I'm open to this being because of quality of relationship rather than quantity of time. It can be more like uncle nephew than father son. I'm cool with that.

Agreed. Admittedly, it has taken me a while to come to this point (I was completely miffed at the father/son relationship being destroyed as can be evidenced from my rants on older threads) but, since I obviously have no power over at DC, I have gotten used to the idea. And I, too, want to see this new relationship dynamic being developed (more like big brother, younger brother than father/son as you said). I think the writers must be careful to recognize the subtle differences between this and the previous continuity when writing Bruce/Dick interaction in the future. To his defense, I think Scott Snyder has done a LOT to open up the door for Grayson being considered more as Batman's partner than subordinate. And I LOVE Higgins' handle on Grayson's voice

What do you think @smoothjammin, @nathaniel_christopher, @vampireselektor

#28 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1486 posts) - - Show Bio

@dropkickjake said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

So I kind of want to see Dick and Bruce have more of that brotherly relationship that seems to be implied by the new timeline. More legit partnership than Batman saying "nightwing, do this...."

Yeah, as much as I hate the father/son relationship being taken away, I am interested in the new potential dynamic. Their interaction in the first 15 or so issues of Batman make it clear that Bruce still has a tighter bond with Dick than with the other Batfamily members (minus Alfred of course). I'm open to this being because of quality of relationship rather than quantity of time. It can be more like uncle nephew than father son. I'm cool with that.

Agreed. Admittedly, it has taken me a while to come to this point (I was completely miffed at the father/son relationship being destroyed as can be evidenced from my rants on older threads) but, since I obviously have no power over at DC, I have gotten used to the idea. And I, too, want to see this new relationship dynamic being developed (more like big brother, younger brother than father/son as you said). I think the writers must be careful to recognize the subtle differences between this and the previous continuity when writing Bruce/Dick interaction in the future. To his defense, I think Scott Snyder has done a LOT to open up the door for Grayson being considered more as Batman's partner than subordinate. And I LOVE Higgins' handle on Grayson's voice

What do you think @smoothjammin, @nathaniel_christopher, @vampireselektor

Eh, for me there's no way for them to be save Father and Son. However all their interactions haven't been bad Post-Flashpoint, and i'm growing used to the new relationship. t's very, very clear that Dick is basically Bruce's right hand man and still has a special relationship with him, whereas there were times in the past it was doubted. That's something i've been glad to see. The whole "Brother" angle makes it easier for them to be portrayed in this way I think.

#29 Posted by vernierhawk001 (514 posts) - - Show Bio

@vernierhawk001 said:

@dropkickjake said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

So I kind of want to see Dick and Bruce have more of that brotherly relationship that seems to be implied by the new timeline. More legit partnership than Batman saying "nightwing, do this...."

Yeah, as much as I hate the father/son relationship being taken away, I am interested in the new potential dynamic. Their interaction in the first 15 or so issues of Batman make it clear that Bruce still has a tighter bond with Dick than with the other Batfamily members (minus Alfred of course). I'm open to this being because of quality of relationship rather than quantity of time. It can be more like uncle nephew than father son. I'm cool with that.

Agreed. Admittedly, it has taken me a while to come to this point (I was completely miffed at the father/son relationship being destroyed as can be evidenced from my rants on older threads) but, since I obviously have no power over at DC, I have gotten used to the idea. And I, too, want to see this new relationship dynamic being developed (more like big brother, younger brother than father/son as you said). I think the writers must be careful to recognize the subtle differences between this and the previous continuity when writing Bruce/Dick interaction in the future. To his defense, I think Scott Snyder has done a LOT to open up the door for Grayson being considered more as Batman's partner than subordinate. And I LOVE Higgins' handle on Grayson's voice

What do you think @smoothjammin, @nathaniel_christopher, @vampireselektor

Eh, for me there's no way for them to be save Father and Son. However all their interactions haven't been bad Post-Flashpoint, and i'm growing used to the new relationship. t's very, very clear that Dick is basically Bruce's right hand man and still has a special relationship with him, whereas there were times in the past it was doubted. That's something i've been glad to see. The whole "Brother" angle makes it easier for them to be portrayed in this way I think.

Yup...agreed. But I won't admit it too readily because that means admitting that perhaps DC knew what they were doing :)

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