The Character Assassination of Dick Grayson

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#51 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: I will deifintely respond to this Monday ( i dont have enough time to give this the respect it deserves) all i gotta say is well said and good job

#52 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf said:

@nathaniel_christopher: I will deifintely respond to this Monday ( i dont have enough time to give this the respect it deserves) all i gotta say is well said and good job

Thank you! Nice to have your work appreciated and I look forward to seeing your thoughts on everything.

#53 Edited by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with everything you said.

Robin at 16 - This cuts out/truncates 6 years of stories, training, and relationship building. He used to be like a true son to Bruce and now he seems like a total outcast that just got training from a bunch of people and Batman happened to be included in that group.

Robin for a Year - That might be a little off depending on how accurate the old arc is anymore when Dick moves on from being Robin. He also most likely lost his Nightwing origin (seeking advice from Superman). I could see him becoming Robin at 16, being robin until 19-20, being Nightwing for a year, being Batman for a year, then him being Nightwing again. This still doesnt give him nearly as much training and stories as before but it would be better then being Robin for a year.

Lost his Entire Teen Titans History - This might not be the case. We do know he adventured with Kori and Red Arrow among "others" when they were younger they just didn't have an official name for the team supposedly

Wally West and Donna Trow being Thrown into Limbo - This aggravates me. I really dislike Barry Allen. While he is a decent enough character he is dry and boring in my opinion. They made all the characters very serious. Wally could have really lightened things up. While i like Diana's new origin i hope they give Donna a similar one and bring her in soon (or show that she is Diana's daughter (Fury) on Earth-2

They ruined Dick's relationship with the Bat-family - He was like a true son to Bruce and closest person to him. Was like a true brother to Tim and Damien, and always wanted the best for his psychotic killing foster brother Jason. Now Jason is pretty much normal with anger issues and has taken Dick's friends and old uniform. Whats worse is Tim is closer to Jason then anyone and he said they were close before Jason died but that would mean Bruce adopted Tim before Jason died meaning either Bruce had two Robins at once or Tim was living a a rather normal foster child.

The Batman Arcs - I have actually been ok with these. I liked the addition to dick's mythos. Im glad he has his own ties to Gotham as i always felt his ties to Gotham were only the Bat-family. I actually kind of wanted him to get the Talons healing ability but i think that would mean he would have had to die. I didnt like that Nightwing got B$%^ slapped and got a tooth knocked out by a simple back hand.

Haley's Circus - I am iffy on this one. While i always hated that he would occasionally travel with the circus (basically giving away who Nightwing really is) i also understood that the circus is obviously a major part of his back story i just didnt think he needed to rehash that area. I Did like Saiko and the girl and i was starting to like some of the characters but i am still not sure how i feel about the circus as a whole. I was hoping Nightwing could make amusement mile into his own like he did with Bludhaven (i would like to see bludhaven return) but i was only ok with the circus if Nightwing was just the owner and not a performer. Also it seemed pretty evident that if there would be a circus in Gotham Joker would ruin it.

I think They need to come up with a character that Batman just can understand like Dick does so Batman could never take down and needs Dicks help. I thought Jason would be this villain for Dick until the new 52.

#54 Posted by Denam_Pavel (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf said:


Robin for a Year - That might be a little off depending on how accurate the old arc is anymore when Dick moves on from being Robin. He also most likely lost his Nightwing origin (seeking advice from Superman). I could see him becoming Robin at 16, being robin until 19-20, being Nightwing for a year, being Batman for a year, then him being Nightwing again. This still doesnt give him nearly as much training and stories as before but it would be better then being Robin for a year.

Jason was stated to have trained with Batman for years so Dick was definitely only Robin for a year or so. Especially when you consider that Jason also trained under a crapload of other people after he was resurrected and still was able to return to Gotham before Bruce disappeared and Dick became Batman and on the other side Batman was active without Robin for a good portion of that first year from what we can tell.

#55 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

On Wally, I think it's fairly clear that the powers that be at DC have a massive hateboner for the Redheaded speedster and a somewhat lesser but still colossal ragerection for Kyle Rayner. For the crime of supplanting Barry Allen and Hal Jordan.

#56 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

@batwatch said:

Very nice work Nathaniel. Very nice indeed. I'm a little jealous right not, actually. (grins)

Before I comment on all your good thoughts, let me add the biggest change that has hacked me off which I cannot believe you left out. Dick is no longer Bruce's son or ward. He had a Terry McGinnis style relationship with him where he just helped out. This undermines Dick's attitude towards Dick as his father. He is now just an employed/mentor.

2. I agree while DC has put a 5 year limit on things i just ignore that when it comes to the bat family bc it just doesnt work

7. Everything was torn apart and not everyone died but after DOTF the Carnies told Dick its over and they wouldnt stay in Gotham or work for him. Plus Nightwing spent every penny he had to rebuild Amusement mile so he is broke again.

I hate what they are doing to his past too and the best thing they could do is do a major cross over where the main heroes are removed from the situation (similar to the upcoming event) and Dick gets looked to by everyone as the natural next leader in the order (similar to what i hear will be going on in Forever Evil)

I didnt know that the Ward of the state thing changed. That really changes his relationship with Bruce. I thought Bruce eventually asked him to be his son though? That really aggravates me

I loved the Pre-New 52 Nightwing Series and battle for the Cowl but i have read roughly 10 Nighwing comics from the new 52 and havent picked any up since March. I keep up with whats going on but i just couldnt stand the changes. I will eventually buy them in TPB or cheap in digital

#57 Edited by AColombia (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf: they did in Gotham Knights 21 pre new 52 Bruce officially adopted Dick. Now that's thrown out, way to go DC.

#58 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

@acolombia: Thats what i thought, Bruce didnt "ADOPT" Dick until he was in his 20's it seemed in the old DCU

#59 Posted by AColombia (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf: yea but he did it and he even said it didn't really change anything, since Dick was already his son.

#60 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

@acolombia: correct. I would like to see that moment reestablished

#61 Edited by AColombia (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf: same but til then can't cus DC sucks

#62 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

@degraaf: same but til then can't cus DC sucks

Well im hoping that this Villains Month thing going on will at least reestablish that when the big 3 are away (or when the main JL team is away) that people know and look to Nightwing for guidance. (i know it looks like Lex is probably running the show)

#63 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still pretty annoyed that he's no longer Bruce's son officially. The change is pointless and makes no sense in my eyes. I think it's clear he and Bruce are still the closest, he's still second in command, but DC needs to do more to show it. Having him interact more with Tim at some point would help, re-build a brotherly bond there where Tim's still his own man, but defers to Dick's experience and wisdom. Have him kick Jason's ass for making comments about how Dick doesn't really care about Kori. Let's get back to the basics here.

#64 Posted by AColombia (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: since Dan Didio doesn't like Grayson he wanted him stripped of all his best qualities.

#65 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

@acolombia: Is that right? I had no idea.

Did he tell you this himself?

#66 Edited by SuperJedi17 (300 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: He wanted to kill dick during a crisis,but fan outcry made the decision change to Superboy dying,I think.To be honest,I'm unsure,I actually started reading in the New 52(not so "new" now) but I know a few per N52 things,just wanted to state I don't pretend to know what i 'm talking about....I guess....lol

#67 Posted by AColombia (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: he said himself during a interview "nightwing amd I go way back. If at first you don't succeed...and he's always made it known he doesn't like Nightwing.

#68 Posted by nightwingism (47 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick is still the son of Bruce, instead of being a ward he was adopted right off the bat (half of you are going to be pissed that he was never a ward) as in Nightwing 0 he asked Alfred if he was a good son. Why would he ask that if he wasn't his son? Just because he didn't have 11 years of Robin to bond with Bruce doesn't mean they aren't close, because they had 5 years of bonding time and Bruce said it himself Dick knows Bruce the second best behind Alfred. And in the new 52 it doesn't seem like Dick had a fallout with Bruce when becoming Nightwing, so he didn't have a year of just not being around Bruce, heck he might of even stayed in the manor while as Nightwing while helping train Jason to be Robin. And the back story of Haly's Circus didn't take away anything. Before it was just a place Dick grew up in and where he learned most of what he knew ans translated into being Robin. Kyle Higgins added this without getting rid of the Dick's fond memory of the Circus Life that he expresses through the way he fights crime. He added characters to the Haly's Circus mythos without taking anything away, that I can't see anyways. And the whole Blue to Red thing that makes the fan up in arms is just kind of silly. I mean, yeah his blue outfit was great and if the suit would come back it'd be great for many. But why aren't people complaining about wanting the discowing suit back? People want original, but in the way they want it. I like the red outfit, and the way it is, but if Kyle, Will, Andrew and DC just gives in and be like "guys the nightwing fandom wants nightwing blue. So make him blue" I wouldn't complain. It is just a suit, I read the comic for Dick Grayson and all his quips and just him being him, not for a blue V on his black leotard. People also hate on the way nightwing has been written too, and early in the comics I could understand why, but Kyle wasn't confident in himself to write nightwing the way he is and because of that he turned down some of the personality. But ever since he moved Dick to Chicago, it is almost like he has never left. Speaking of Chicago, why are some people so mad that Dick isn't in Bludhaven now? Bludhaven was destroyed by chemo, and nightwing went to New York. So some of you want it to have all these stories included, but you want every story before Bludhaven was destroyed to be retconed? I read those comics and don't get me wrong I loved the idea of Dick being the guardian of his own city, but why does it have to be Bludhaven? Why can't he be somewhere else? I can't defend nightwing not having his best friends from the teen titans, or his connections with heroes being severed, but maybe one day dan didio can pull his head out of his ass and figure out that those characters are suppose to be in the universe. But the new 52 is only reaching 2 years, they could always add them in and maybe, as an optimist, give them justice on an entrance by giving them a good writer.

#69 Edited by Denam_Pavel (152 posts) - - Show Bio
@nightwingism said:

Dick is still the son of Bruce, instead of being a ward he was adopted right off the bat (half of you are going to be pissed that he was never a ward) as in Nightwing 0 he asked Alfred if he was a good son. Why would he ask that if he wasn't his son? Just because he didn't have 11 years of Robin to bond with Bruce doesn't mean they aren't close, because they had 5 years of bonding time and Bruce said it himself Dick knows Bruce the second best behind Alfred. And in the new 52 it doesn't seem like Dick had a fallout with Bruce when becoming Nightwing, so he didn't have a year of just not being around Bruce, heck he might of even stayed in the manor while as Nightwing while helping train Jason to be Robin. And the back story of Haly's Circus didn't take away anything. Before it was just a place Dick grew up in and where he learned most of what he knew ans translated into being Robin. Kyle Higgins added this without getting rid of the Dick's fond memory of the Circus Life that he expresses through the way he fights crime. He added characters to the Haly's Circus mythos without taking anything away, that I can't see anyways. And the whole Blue to Red thing that makes the fan up in arms is just kind of silly. I mean, yeah his blue outfit was great and if the suit would come back it'd be great for many. But why aren't people complaining about wanting the discowing suit back? People want original, but in the way they want it. I like the red outfit, and the way it is, but if Kyle, Will, Andrew and DC just gives in and be like "guys the nightwing fandom wants nightwing blue. So make him blue" I wouldn't complain. It is just a suit, I read the comic for Dick Grayson and all his quips and just him being him, not for a blue V on his black leotard. People also hate on the way nightwing has been written too, and early in the comics I could understand why, but Kyle wasn't confident in himself to write nightwing the way he is and because of that he turned down some of the personality. But ever since he moved Dick to Chicago, it is almost like he has never left. Speaking of Chicago, why are some people so mad that Dick isn't in Bludhaven now? Bludhaven was destroyed by chemo, and nightwing went to New York. So some of you want it to have all these stories included, but you want every story before Bludhaven was destroyed to be retconed? I read those comics and don't get me wrong I loved the idea of Dick being the guardian of his own city, but why does it have to be Bludhaven? Why can't he be somewhere else? I can't defend nightwing not having his best friends from the teen titans, or his connections with heroes being severed, but maybe one day dan didio can pull his head out of his ass and figure out that those characters are suppose to be in the universe. But the new 52 is only reaching 2 years, they could always add them in and maybe, as an optimist, give them justice on an entrance by giving them a good writer.

Admittedly, I remember some early issue referring to him being adopted but they hadn't figured everything out yet. Just like early installments referred to the Teen Titans and listed Vic and Gar among Roy's friends. At the end of the first year, when his 0 story was written this is what they settled on "We made an arrangement at the orphanage, giving me a "part-time job" at the Manor." So no, not adopted. His question concerning himself being a good son was asked in relation to his deceased parents. Bruce visits his parents graves as often as he can, Dick as little as he can. Dick sees Bruce as being a good son, himself as not.

And no, he knew Bruce for 4 years he disappeared for one of them remember? As for him being the closest to Bruce save for Alfred, I first have to say, Dick used to be first not Alfred. And secondly in what is that reflected exactly? When it comes to letting people know his secret identity, he's gone from the first Batman willingly revealed it too, to about the twentieth to know at all. Bruce has him defer to Red Hood's leadership on all things Talia. So far it seems to yes he didn't actually go his own way upon becoming Nightwing. I can't say for certain until we see that part of his history but it'd hate to limit the eventual writer of it like that. As for Haly's Circus, I myself am not a fan of everything being connected to Gotham's history but Court of Owls was on the whole good crossover so I'm fine with it. Haly himself being evil, I don't mind at all we weren't invested in him.

The problem is how different it makes him from Bruce. Bruce was a 8 year old boy when he lost his parents. They left him in alone in thar big empty mansion with nothing but a manservant. Dick now, is a 16-year old with a promising career and a wide family of friends whose closesness with which is heavily emphasised on. I'm sorry but a sixteen year old should have a good chance of being able to move past this. Especially if unlike Bruce he was surrounded by supporting friends, which Dick was. As for the uniform. It's a minor thing but I prefer blue because freaking everybody wears red now. Blue would serve to contrast him Red Hood and the others. Bludhaven I don't have a problem with them ommitting.

#70 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick is still the son of Bruce, instead of being a ward he was adopted right off the bat (half of you are going to be pissed that he was never a ward) as in Nightwing 0 he asked Alfred if he was a good son. Why would he ask that if he wasn't his son? Just because he didn't have 11 years of Robin to bond with Bruce doesn't mean they aren't close, because they had 5 years of bonding time and Bruce said it himself Dick knows Bruce the second best behind Alfred. And in the new 52 it doesn't seem like Dick had a fallout with Bruce when becoming Nightwing, so he didn't have a year of just not being around Bruce, heck he might of even stayed in the manor while as Nightwing while helping train Jason to be Robin. And the back story of Haly's Circus didn't take away anything. Before it was just a place Dick grew up in and where he learned most of what he knew ans translated into being Robin. Kyle Higgins added this without getting rid of the Dick's fond memory of the Circus Life that he expresses through the way he fights crime. He added characters to the Haly's Circus mythos without taking anything away, that I can't see anyways. And the whole Blue to Red thing that makes the fan up in arms is just kind of silly. I mean, yeah his blue outfit was great and if the suit would come back it'd be great for many. But why aren't people complaining about wanting the discowing suit back? People want original, but in the way they want it. I like the red outfit, and the way it is, but if Kyle, Will, Andrew and DC just gives in and be like "guys the nightwing fandom wants nightwing blue. So make him blue" I wouldn't complain. It is just a suit, I read the comic for Dick Grayson and all his quips and just him being him, not for a blue V on his black leotard. People also hate on the way nightwing has been written too, and early in the comics I could understand why, but Kyle wasn't confident in himself to write nightwing the way he is and because of that he turned down some of the personality. But ever since he moved Dick to Chicago, it is almost like he has never left. Speaking of Chicago, why are some people so mad that Dick isn't in Bludhaven now? Bludhaven was destroyed by chemo, and nightwing went to New York. So some of you want it to have all these stories included, but you want every story before Bludhaven was destroyed to be retconed? I read those comics and don't get me wrong I loved the idea of Dick being the guardian of his own city, but why does it have to be Bludhaven? Why can't he be somewhere else? I can't defend nightwing not having his best friends from the teen titans, or his connections with heroes being severed, but maybe one day dan didio can pull his head out of his ass and figure out that those characters are suppose to be in the universe. But the new 52 is only reaching 2 years, they could always add them in and maybe, as an optimist, give them justice on an entrance by giving them a good writer.

As @denam_pavel was kind enough to point out, quite simply you're wrong. Dick Grayson is no longer Bruce Wayne's son.

Having the time spent with Bruce reduced from 9-13 years to 4-5 is a major change, and goes hand in hand with him no longer being Bruce's son, and it also reduces the amount of experience the character has as a whole, not only in terms of his own crimefighting career, but his career fighting crime with others.

It doesn't seem like he had a fallout with Bruce when he became Nightwing, but it certainly doesn't seem like he had anything to do with training either Jason or Tim.

I'd say the new backstory of Haly's circus didn't add anything that was needed. The whole Gray-Son thing, many may disagree on this, but I found to be stupid and a way to add more weight to the name, similar to what the Return of Bruce Wayne arc (And numerous other stories) have tried to do to the Wayne family name. And when at the end you don't even have a character from the new mythos stick around, and then destroy the circus anyways in the next arc, it looks like poor planning and lack of a long term goal.

Different people have different preferences as to what matters to them about a character, so I don't find the "blue to red thing" to be silly at all, as people complain about the costume of pretty much any character they like. (Bruce, Jason, Tim, and Damian being just some examples.) Then when you have each of the Robins now wearing the exact same color, it just makes them less individual as a whole in my mind, and when it's not a necessary change that's stupid.

I don't know what to say about people being mad about Dick not being in Bludhaven, as I haven't seen any sign of that, and personally i'm just glad he's no longer in Gotham. There was potential for the character to grow and develop there, but it's potential that I see now only existed Pre-Flashpoint. Post-Flashpoint, with the numerous elements removed from the character it was no longer possible.

#71 Posted by nightwingism (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@denam_pavel: okay that was a bad example on my part as I took it out of context, however how about the scene in Batman and Robin #10 when they are doing the family portrait? I mean, Kyle knows Dick is adopted by Bruce and as a fan himself wouldn't take that away.

Your part about identity and who knows who better I have to agree with, but also disagree with. I don't know I think if anyone would know more about Bruce than Dick it would be the man who raised him since his parents died, who BBC is like a second dad to him. And thank you I forgot about the year as Batman. My mistake. And I too hate everything being connected to Gotham but Haly wasn't really connected, wasn't it just a stop and they saw William doing his juggling act at Gotham? I don't remember reading that this circus was made from Gotham. Unless you are talking about Dick's roots, which would mean from his father side he's connected. I don't mind that much because that's only one side of his family.

And now, he didn't really have that promising of a career since the Court of Owls were going to make him fake his death and make him a talon. And he really dis get over it though, I might be taking it out of context again but in nightwing 0 didn't he talk about how the pain he felt from his parent's death change? The red outfit is kind of like a honoring of his days as robin. With blue, he separated himself from the batfamily in a way. Now as red, with all of them wearing red it shows a bond they all had of working with The Batman. That's how I get over it anyways.

Oh and thanks. I actually expected people to be hostile and you weren't so thanks.

#72 Edited by Denam_Pavel (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwingism said:

@denam_pavel: okay that was a bad example on my part as I took it out of context, however how about the scene in Batman and Robin #10 when they are doing the family portrait? I mean, Kyle knows Dick is adopted by Bruce and as a fan himself wouldn't take that away.

Your part about identity and who knows who better I have to agree with, but also disagree with. I don't know I think if anyone would know more about Bruce than Dick it would be the man who raised him since his parents died, who BBC is like a second dad to him. And thank you I forgot about the year as Batman. My mistake. And I too hate everything being connected to Gotham but Haly wasn't really connected, wasn't it just a stop and they saw William doing his juggling act at Gotham? I don't remember reading that this circus was made from Gotham. Unless you are talking about Dick's roots, which would mean from his father side he's connected. I don't mind that much because that's only one side of his family.

And now, he didn't really have that promising of a career since the Court of Owls were going to make him fake his death and make him a talon. And he really dis get over it though, I might be taking it out of context again but in nightwing 0 didn't he talk about how the pain he felt from his parent's death change? The red outfit is kind of like a honoring of his days as robin. With blue, he separated himself from the batfamily in a way. Now as red, with all of them wearing red it shows a bond they all had of working with The Batman. That's how I get over it anyways.

Oh and thanks. I actually expected people to be hostile and you weren't so thanks.

He didn't know that however. As far as Dick and Bruce knew he had a family of friends that he was now leaving behind entirely to do crimefighting. That's very different from Bruce, Tim, Jason or anyone else. Also Batman used to wear blue when Dick was still Robin.

#73 Posted by nightwingism (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@denam_pavel: Bruce didn't know but he did know the way Dick felt, at the time. No way Bruce would know that Dick had his four friends around to help him through it. And it is different, and sometimes different is good. And Dick used to wear a super V neck top with a collar that could swallow him whole. How about we go back to that outfit?

#74 Edited by Denam_Pavel (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwingism said:

@denam_pavel: Bruce didn't know but he did know the way Dick felt, at the time. No way Bruce would know that Dick had his four friends around to help him through it. And it is different, and sometimes different is good. And Dick used to wear a super V neck top with a collar that could swallow him whole. How about we go back to that outfit?

Sometimes. Not every single time. Dick was the one Robin that went through the same thing Bruce did. Robin came about because Bruce saw himself in Dick. Having Dick be in a completely different stage of his life (very close to adulthood in fact) when he loses his parents and then over empathesise how much family and friends he still had at Haly's Circus takes away from that. A lot. And I don't see Batman overlooking basic facts of his new interests life.

And yeah, the disco outfit was pretty silly but Batman wearing blue is very iconic, it's still in certain comics, cartoons, artwork and actionfigures. Blue is color associated with Batman and the night. Nightwing wearing blue does not distance him from the batfamily.

#75 Posted by nightwingism (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@denam_pavel: But the thing is, they didn't over emphasize family and friends. He had 3 friends that were added. Bryan wasn't there, the clown wasn't there yet. It was just those 3, Haly himself and his parents. When his parents died he would sneak out at night and fight people trying to find Zucco. And when Bruce learned this and started training him he started out the training wanting to avenge, but down the line it changed and he didn't feel that hurt anymore. Because he is older he was able to get over it faster.

And yes, batman was blue and turned to black. The light gray with blue turned dark gray with black and sometimes was just full black but that was mostly in movies. And it doesn't distance him from the batfamily but the red makes him closer to the Robins since the red is like a binding of the Robins

#76 Edited by Denam_Pavel (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwingism said:

@denam_pavel: But the thing is, they didn't over emphasize family and friends. He had 3 friends that were added. Bryan wasn't there, the clown wasn't there yet. It was just those 3, Haly himself and his parents. When his parents died he would sneak out at night and fight people trying to find Zucco. And when Bruce learned this and started training him he started out the training wanting to avenge, but down the line it changed and he didn't feel that hurt anymore. Because he is older he was able to get over it faster.

And yes, batman was blue and turned to black. The light gray with blue turned dark gray with black and sometimes was just full black but that was mostly in movies. And it doesn't distance him from the batfamily but the red makes him closer to the Robins since the red is like a binding of the Robins

The entire first arc was about him reconnecting with the circus and I'm pretty sure the clown was there even if we don't see him in flashback.

"But as I stand here tonight, looking at all the hard work everyone at Haly's has put in... Well, being here reminds me that even though I lost my parents... I'll never lose my family. And with THAT kind of support there's nothing I can't handle." That's what Bruce tore him away from now. Good job Bruce. As for the red being binding of the Robins. why do we want that? Tim is THE Red Robin. That's kind of an oxymoron now. Red Hood is no friend of the other Robins or of the idea of Robin when they choose their outfits.

#77 Posted by nightwingism (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@denam_pavel: and if bruce never took him in, in this universe, he would of became a talon instead and forced to leave. No matter what, he would of been taken by someone to fight in a war. Why did bruce take dick before, away from the other no name carnie folk and haly who obviously loved him and would of took care of him? Good job Bruce.

And why don't you, personally, want a binding of the robins? Why can't they have a similarity of a suit after they outgrown the robin costume? Red Hood is now friends with Tim, which has been pointed out already in this forum. And Jason wore one of Dick's old outfit, which connects him to the Robin thing in a way.

#78 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

As Bruce himself said, they're each already connected by the fact they were all once Robin. The wore the outfit, the R, and bore it with dignity and distinction. They did the name honor. So as far as Batman himself is concerned, that's enough of a connection for them. (Then there's the fact they were all raised by the same man, look visually similar, and every now and again return to the same city they grew up in.) The idea they need to be further bound together by a color is redundant in my eyes, and completely unnecessary. They have enough connection as it is.

Heck, the original Robin outfit was created by Dick, and all outfits that came after were based around that one. That's another connection. There's really no reason any future costumes have to continue to share similarities.

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