Alright! Creating yet another thread for Dick Grayson! XD He's one of my favorite character along with Spidey! However, I find myself baffled because he's hilariously underestimated at times! In the comics, yeah, it's part of him developing as a character. However, even in these sitess, he still is! And I find it often that people take his "beatings" out of context. For example: Bane and Nightwing's fights!
Months ago, I posted "Bane vs Nightwing". I always wondered this. Especially when he was Batman! So I decided to post it! However, the reception I had was VERY NEGATIVE! I allowed all feats to be considered too! Pre-52 and New 52! And yet, people got on me for making a thread, saying he's dead or it's a curbstomp. Some people actually thought he had a chance. Others said "Nope" and locked the thread! However, a leading picture here was shown! And it was these two pictures!
I even came across a site talking about Bane from the comics and being adapted into the Dark Knight Returns. One of the things said was that "He embarassed Nightwing". And For a time, I counted t as a low showing! UNTIL yesterday, I was looking around tumblr for Bane pics, Tim drake pics, etc! Just wanted to see funny pics of the Batfam drawn by weird people on Tumblr! Then I stumble upon the comic page in which showed a different light of the Nightwing and Bane fight. And got where it was from. Batman:Bane(1997) one-shot! So I did more research and pulled up a cbr file of it and did some investigating. And as it turns out....those 2 pages above this didn't quite happen like that! Those pictures above you, mind you, CAME FROM COMICVINE! Here's what ACTUALLY HAPPENED!
These scans prove that Nightwing was snuck up on and got KOed because of it! This is not that far from Batman getting beat up and broken by Bane himself! GRANTED that he was exhausted. But he still snuck up on Batman and broke his back due to exhaustion, not pure skill! Him sneaking up on Nightwing and KOing him was a feat of stealth and skill, not fighting prowess! IN THIS ONE! There's another scan for that. However the next one will show him tied up and that he was just knocked out.
He then escapes later! and has another run-in with Bane! This is the scene where most take the picture of Bane "owning" Nightwing manifests.
This scene did not display a "ownage" as people claim! Nightwing underestimated his skill and striking power! That's why he said "This guy is no pushover". He's not the first hero to do this,etiher! As a matter of fact, Batman has done so himself! I remember seeing him fight Lady Shiva for the first time in Death of the Family. He didn't want to fight her and actually underestimated her! It wasn't until this realization that he fought! he said that she had the striking power of Ra's Al Ghul and agility of The Sensei! Just because she landed that one attack that surprise him, does this mean that she curbstomps him in every battle? NO! In that "Scuffle" as I call it, the fight didn't even begin yet! Because Batman intervened before he could show off what he could do!(That sucked because I really wanted to see that!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXPn4iAKlCE (Lady Shiva vs Batman and Robin)
The video above show you the fight between them! In that, this show what happens when you underestimate someone! You get beat. Does this mean everytime Batman and Shiva fight, she curbstomps with ridiculous ease? NO! You have to look at the 2 character and what they do and consistency before saying so when you put em in the Battle forums and read the OP! I say in an actual fight where they square off without the use of gadgetry or outside assistance and pure martial arts, it's a stalemate! Why? I think Shiva is better then Batman in MA, speed, and agility but not enough to make a difference where as Batman is tough in strength, endurance, and is more resilient! It depends of the scenerio! Not a curbstomp! Speaking of which, that has happen to Nightwing as part of a low showing! He ALSO ended up underestimating her striking power and kicks him to the side! Peopel said Shiva curbstomped him from that ONE KICK! In actuality, he was fine. Dazed because like Batman, underestimated her striking power! HOWEVER, then was interrupted with ninjas to keep him occupied as Connor Hawke fought Shiva. Before the fight between them in the New 52, people kept saying "He's outa her league by a LONGSHOT! HE DIES" and all that and use that kick to prove he's outclassed when he was OKAY and UNDERESTIMATED HIM! I'm not saying he can beat shiva because IMO, out of his league. However, that one kick she did does not prove! I'd have to go find it sometime and show you the scan! If you can't take my word for it, that's fine. You'll see it soon!
Back to Bane vs Nightwing. Also, I saw a thread where people debated can Nightiwng beat Bane. This was before mine was made, too. Someone posted this.
After this, even I was like "Whoa". But then someone pointed out it was just a holographic construct and then proceeded to say how ridiculous someone try to pull it off as the real thing! And then when someone mentioned that Batman did have that to prepare the Batfamily to fight him, it would be spot-on! Someone argued no. And why? Because he was using a gun.
Well guess what? Batman had a reason why he did have the construct use a gun in that scenerio. CAUSE HE DONE IT BEFORE!
While the Bane construct isn't exactly Bane, it was close enough. Debunking that feat because "it wasn't acting like him" was ridiculous because it was.
The point of this thread was that I'm tired of people putting out things like Nightwing(he seems to attract this xD) getting "owned" before people look at the context of that! Not saying Nightwing beats Bane in a fight! No. That's can be debating. However, taking 2 shots of things outa context and using that as "proof" or "evidence" that he's outclassed is ridiculous. Especially when someone actually took time to put it together to fool people into thinking he loses to Bane horribly when in actuality, you can debate he has a shot based on certain circumstances or whatever the OP says! And they do it to benefit one character and be one sided. I understand you like this character. I love Nightwing! But im not going to be the idiot to sit here and tell you he can win against superman or Batman. Like no! I'm not that ridiculous! I understand and acknowledged when he's out of his league! However, when I post a fight or when anyone does in that matter, present CLEAR evidence with some context provided! You can't just take a little part of the panel and say "oh he beats him" when there's more to show and that it wasn't meant to be taken as a "Nightwing vs Bane".
These type of things happen to a lot of popular character. Bane is actually an example. People forget he broke Batman cause he was exhausted from fighting his rogues continously and tracked him down to the Batcave. While that's REALLY COOL, this does not mean Bane is smarter then him. He's a good enough tactician to get Batman into a bad day. Then in various threads, against Nightwing, Robin, Lady Shiva,etc, people say "Oh he's even smarter then Batman". Which is wrong. He might have a surprisengly high intellect but people like Batman & Nightwing are one of the greatest tactician in the world! Batman runs the Justice League as their leading Tactician. I really don't need to get into him. We all know that. Nightwing is too but many people don't know that because they only see low showings and take that. Nightwing has also outsmarted the Crime Syndicate Pre-Reboot and even Owlman. And as part of his Robin test, evaded Batman and set up a trap for him. And a lot more people don't consider. People like Deathstroke too are overestimated also. They don't understand the reason he fights well with teams is because he utilizes Tactical attacks to break them down! He had a harder time fighting one-on-one, where people are less prone to make mistakes(because no one is bailing you out if you get down) then team. That's also like saying Spider-Man had solos out the X-Men so this clearly means anytime he goes up against ANY X-Men, he wins in a ridiculous curbstomp and because they cant touch him with Spidey sense. That's hard to believe, as many character have feats to back up the fact that would make it a tough fight or a good one AND the fact Spidey Sense isn't an "auto-dodge". People tend to take one little thing and think just because someone did this, that means they can beat anyone lower. ABC logic doesn't help you in a debate! There's bad things about being in teams. If your team is dysfunctional, I don't care if they're the most powerful being on the planets individually, you have the potential of being taken down due to tactical advantage. Also, a lot of times, people don't consider the context nor read the story and find the scan elsewhere. Perhaps they just got doesn't in a danger room exercise?
Lesson of the Thread: Get your context. Might do a general discussion of this.