Higgins just tweeted (in the last few minutes) with regard to the Death of the Family arcs.

"Nightwing doesn't HAVE to be Dick Grayson, right :)" and "I mean it IS called Death of the Family #nothingtoseehere"

Is Higgins trying to fool us all or is he hinting at what might happen in the storyline?

He does have a point, the name of the arc suggests someone will die. Although saying that I'm hoping that the title is meant to mislead us and that actually the family dynamic of the Bat-family will 'die' rather than any member of the group.

AHHH D:

I hope not...though you've got a point...the name does indicate that someone is going to die

Oh, boy

....s**its not even funny.

Jason Todd for Nightwing!

I kid I kid!

Could it be that Dick Grayson might be going back to being Batman? hahaha naw the die hard fans would just eat themselves if that happened again.

Nah I think that Alfred would more likely be killed off and that Kyle is just doing more to prop up the story and as he should it seems like it will be an awesome return of the clown prince of crime.

O_O Kyle whatttt are you doing O_o

@Mercy_:

Self-promotion he's building buzz for his work so you buy it.

Also I would laugh my ass off if Bruce is killed off or something. This might be in Dick loses his eye.

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

Well I suppose the only positive thing is that none of them will ever be killed of permanently.

If they kill Dick then DC is gonna get a lot of hate from fans.

However as I said earlier the arc is called Death OF the Family, to me this implies that either all of them die (as is probably Joker's plan, to bring about the death of all of them) or that we see the death of the family dynamic of the group. Its not quite like the Death in the Family arc, with that arc you knew hands down that someone in the Bat-family would die and it wasn't even left open for debate.

Kyle, what did I tell you about hanging around with that Snyder boy

I'm starting to think the whole staff doing New 52 now are all high on something, in all honesty now, when revelations like this are made :/

@LuigiBat said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

Well I suppose the only positive thing is that none of them will ever be killed of permanently.

If they kill Dick then DC is gonna get a lot of hate from fans.

However as I said earlier the arc is called Death OF the Family, to me this implies that either all of them die (as is problem Joker's plan, to bring about the death of all of them) or that we see the death of the family dynamic of the group. Its not quite like the Death in the Family arc, with that arc you knew hands down that someone in the Bat-family would die and it wasn't even left open for debate.

Yeah, the one thing everyone should know about Dick Grayson fans is that they are almost all totally loyal to Dick Grayson. DC would get a ton of hate mail.

@Funrush said:

@LuigiBat said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

Well I suppose the only positive thing is that none of them will ever be killed of permanently.

If they kill Dick then DC is gonna get a lot of hate from fans.

However as I said earlier the arc is called Death OF the Family, to me this implies that either all of them die (as is problem Joker's plan, to bring about the death of all of them) or that we see the death of the family dynamic of the group. Its not quite like the Death in the Family arc, with that arc you knew hands down that someone in the Bat-family would die and it wasn't even left open for debate.

Yeah, the one thing everyone should know about Dick Grayson fans is that they are almost all totally loyal to Dick Grayson. DC would get a ton of hate mail.

I remember in a DC Nation column that Didio said his bags were held by a check in attendant at an airport who wouldn't give them back unless Didio promised that Dick Grayson would be safe during Infinite Crisis. A rumour was going around back then that Dick Grayson would die but it turned out to be Conner Kent who bit the dust.

@LuigiBat Even if he died and came back I wouldn't really be happy with that, because i'm not actually a fan of people dying and then coming back, like death is a revolving door. It lacks any impact, because you know the person (If popular enough) is going to come back eventually.

I agree though, it sounds to me like the actual family would be dying, not just a single person.

@Lvenger: Nightwing was next on Death's list. Like Final Destination.

From a DC Nation panel at Wizard World Philadelphia 2006:

The Pulse reports: “When asked if there was a character that he would have liked to see killed during Crisis, Didio pointed to Nightwing as his choice. He felt as though the natural progression of the storyline should have lead to his death. Geoff Johns was vehemently opposed to killing Nightwing.”

Newsarama reports: “When each panelist was asked who they would have killed, if given their druthers, as part of Infinite Crisis, Johns declined to answer; however, Didio, after discussion, said, “I wanted Nightwing dead,” and explained that, if you follow the Nightwing story through the miniseries, you can see fairly clearly that he was supposed to die. ”

----

Snippets of information taken by the fine people at titanstower.com below

Q: Why didn’t you kill Nightwing in Infinite Crisis?

Waid: Because Geoff Johns and I took turns holding a big club over Dan once we learned he wanted too.

Perez: And speaking for guys who actually earn residuals off of Nightwing, we like him too.

Q: Why was it even considered?

Waid: Yeah Dan, why?

Wayne: And don’t say again, “Because Bob said it would sell.”

Busiek: Have you ever drunk a lot of Scotch? Dan has.

Waid: Yeah, what has he ever done to you?

Didio: We were looking for the big death in Infinite Crisis – the big moment. We were looking for something that would have equal import and merit and weight in this story. One of the things I’ve been proven wrong about is that I had felt that Dick Grayson was a redundant character – Tim Drake had filled his role as Robin, he would never be Batman, so where could he go?

My big fear was that Nightwing would get older than Batman. The thought was that if we removed Dick form the equation that would allow Bruce Wayne to stand alone as Batman, and to firmly establish Tim Drake as Robin. So now – Marv is showing us why we like him, his place in the DC Universe, and more importantly, his potential in the DC Universe.

----

If you ask me, Infinite Crisis was a fantastic read and it's actually interesting to re-read the story at the same time knowing Grayson was intended to die. I think I'm going to go read through it again just for sh!ts and giggles.

@SmoothJammin: Interesting. I never knew the full backstory behind Didio wanting to off Dick. This makes me want to buy Infinite Crisis and the New 52 Nightwing series now. Thanks for the comic book fact of the day!

Of course friend. :) PM,reply me or whatever if you have any random Nightwing questions, I'm at ur service!

@Funrush said:

@LuigiBat said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

Well I suppose the only positive thing is that none of them will ever be killed of permanently.

If they kill Dick then DC is gonna get a lot of hate from fans.

However as I said earlier the arc is called Death OF the Family, to me this implies that either all of them die (as is problem Joker's plan, to bring about the death of all of them) or that we see the death of the family dynamic of the group. Its not quite like the Death in the Family arc, with that arc you knew hands down that someone in the Bat-family would die and it wasn't even left open for debate.

Yeah, the one thing everyone should know about Dick Grayson fans is that they are almost all totally loyal to Dick Grayson. DC would get a ton of hate mail.

I'd personally head up a campaign against DC if they killed Dick.

I can see why they did consider killing him off before though. He's a more popular character within the DC Universe than Bruce, his death would resonate far more than Bruce dying, how many other characters would honestly call Dick a friend and look up to him? Now ask yourself how characters would consider Bruce a friend?

@LuigiBat said:

@Funrush said:

@LuigiBat said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

Well I suppose the only positive thing is that none of them will ever be killed of permanently.

If they kill Dick then DC is gonna get a lot of hate from fans.

However as I said earlier the arc is called Death OF the Family, to me this implies that either all of them die (as is problem Joker's plan, to bring about the death of all of them) or that we see the death of the family dynamic of the group. Its not quite like the Death in the Family arc, with that arc you knew hands down that someone in the Bat-family would die and it wasn't even left open for debate.

Yeah, the one thing everyone should know about Dick Grayson fans is that they are almost all totally loyal to Dick Grayson. DC would get a ton of hate mail.

I'd personally head up a campaign against DC if they killed Dick.

I can see why they did consider killing him off before though. He's a more popular character within the DC Universe than Bruce, his death would resonate far more than Bruce dying, how many other characters would honestly call Dick a friend and look up to him? Now ask yourself how characters would consider Bruce a friend?

Of course. I understand full well the reasoning, I just wouldn't support it lol because if it happened i'd want him to stay dead. So the death would never lose impact or be cheapened by him being revived within a year. When that happens to a character I say they might as well as not have killed the character to begin with.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@LuigiBat said:

@Funrush said:

@LuigiBat said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

Well I suppose the only positive thing is that none of them will ever be killed of permanently.

If they kill Dick then DC is gonna get a lot of hate from fans.

However as I said earlier the arc is called Death OF the Family, to me this implies that either all of them die (as is problem Joker's plan, to bring about the death of all of them) or that we see the death of the family dynamic of the group. Its not quite like the Death in the Family arc, with that arc you knew hands down that someone in the Bat-family would die and it wasn't even left open for debate.

Yeah, the one thing everyone should know about Dick Grayson fans is that they are almost all totally loyal to Dick Grayson. DC would get a ton of hate mail.

I'd personally head up a campaign against DC if they killed Dick.

I can see why they did consider killing him off before though. He's a more popular character within the DC Universe than Bruce, his death would resonate far more than Bruce dying, how many other characters would honestly call Dick a friend and look up to him? Now ask yourself how characters would consider Bruce a friend?

Of course. I understand full well the reasoning, I just wouldn't support it lol because if it happened i'd want him to stay dead. So the death would never lose impact or be cheapened by him being revived within a year. When that happens to a character I say they might as well as not have killed the character to begin with.

Yeah I agree 100%.

I find it acceptable in a case like Jason Todd's, where the vote was rigged and one guy programmed his computer to ring in nearly 200 times to choose the 'death option', because if you take out those votes more people wanted to see him survive than those who wanted to see him die.

I wouldn't want Dick to die but if he did die it'd have to be for keeps just to avoid cheapening the impact of his death. The trouble is that DC don't work like that, they'd kill Dick off to create a big buzz and boost sales only to bring him back in a few years time if sales are slumping in the hope of generating a similar buzz to revitalise sales figures.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

That tweet isn't funny, and i'd drop all comics related to the Bat family if it happened.

I'd drop DC period. It would save me a lot of cash. Besides DC books I only get Winter Soldier.

@LuigiBat Yeah Jason Todd's death was a special circumstance, and even then they didn't bring him back for decades!

Exactly. They'd make some huge event out of it, get some money, and revive him within a year or two.

@richardjohngrayson It'd save me money too, though I get many marvel titles as well.

@richardjohngrayson@Nathaniel_Christopher

If I dropped DC Comics I'd cease to be a comicbook reader altogether :P.

I would hate DC forever if they killed off Dick Grayson. They considered killing him off back when Infinite Crisis was being written and Geoff Johns convinced them not to kill him off. Maybe he can talk to Higgins and the other Batman writers.

Would be funny if Lincoln March is the one who ends up getting killed by the Joker.

@Suprman said:

I would hate DC forever if they killed off Dick Grayson. They considered killing him off back when Infinite Crisis was being written and Geoff Johns convinced them not to kill him off. Maybe he can talk to Higgins and the other Batman writers.

Does he have a Twitter account? If so I think everyone needs to spam him asking him to do what you just said.

@entropy_aegis said:

Would be funny if Lincoln March is the one who ends up getting killed by the Joker.

I wouldn't mind if they did kill Lincoln (or Thomas Wayne Jr?) but what impact would his death really have?

@LuigiBat: As much impact as his reveal,yeah that's right NONE.

...Guys... you realize that was a teaser, right?

Not a spoiler, a teaser...

@X9 said:

...Guys... you realize that was a teaser, right?

Not a spoiler, a teaser...

Of course.

I don't think anyone's taking it as a dead cert that Dick or anyone else will be killed off. What we're mainly discussing is the fact that it seems like DC could (once again) be considering Dick to be 'killable' within the universe.

Bruce dies.

Tim takes the Nightwing mantle.

Dick takes the Batman mantle.

@TheCrowbar said:

Bruce dies.

Tim takes the Nightwing mantle.

Dick takes the Batman mantle.

No! Can't Dick have one thing his "brothers" don't have to rip off.

>__>

jason todd stays dead? if only...

the death of the family coud reference to the fact that the relationship between the batfamily will be destroyed due to Joker's plan. it seems that the joker knows the identities of the family and even knows about Alfred. this seems like more of a psychological game to destroy Batman and his allies, and might mean that Dick not want to Nightwing, that his life is too dangerous. probably not exactly, but it is a thought

@richardjohngrayson:

No. That's what brothers do.

@TheCrowbar said:

Bruce dies.

Tim takes the Nightwing mantle.

Dick takes the Batman mantle.

At the moment it seems like they're trying to make Tim special amongst the Bat Clan (Was never Robin, started the Teen Titans, etc.) So I don't really see this happening. I mean, I imagine they're annoyed as it is that no matter what they do Tim's still using an identity that two of his older brothers used before.

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

They may do what they did to superman, kill ''Dick Grayson" but live Nightwing alive.That means Dick adopting a different identity.

Personally i believe that the bonds of the family will deteriorate.

OR HIGGINS IS PLAYING US!

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

Exactly. However I feel that the writers have done a good job of keeping the Joker out of the spotlight. Characters of his level (Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Ra's, etc.) shouldn't be used too often, because they'll start to lose impact.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

Exactly. However I feel that the writers have done a good job of keeping the Joker out of the spotlight. Characters of his level (Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Ra's, etc.) shouldn't be used too often, because they'll start to lose impact.

Most def. Like I said, I'm all for seeing Joker return...especially Joker under Snyder. And I'm even more interested to see how he attacks each member: specifically Nightwing but also Jason, Damian, Barb (is Killing Joke canon in New 52) etc. In fact, I am probably the least interested in the actual Joker vs Batman dynamic. lol!

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

Exactly. However I feel that the writers have done a good job of keeping the Joker out of the spotlight. Characters of his level (Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Ra's, etc.) shouldn't be used too often, because they'll start to lose impact.

Most def. Like I said, I'm all for seeing Joker return...especially Joker under Snyder. And I'm even more interested to see how he attacks each member: specifically Nightwing but also Jason, Damian, Barb (is Killing Joke canon in New 52) etc. In fact, I am probably the least interested in the actual Joker vs Batman dynamic. lol!

I'm pretty sure Killing Joke is canon in the New 52.

I guess what makes this whole thing more exciting is that previously when Joker's done anything to Dick, Jason, Barbara or the others its been simply as a means of getting to Batman. Now he's going to be gunning for each of them specifically which makes everything a lot more interesting. We know how the Joker vs Batman thing will end, it always ends the same way with a different journey to that end used every now and then. With this Joker vs Bat-family individuals thing I can imagine it'll be far more unpredictable.

@LuigiBat said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

Exactly. However I feel that the writers have done a good job of keeping the Joker out of the spotlight. Characters of his level (Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Ra's, etc.) shouldn't be used too often, because they'll start to lose impact.

Most def. Like I said, I'm all for seeing Joker return...especially Joker under Snyder. And I'm even more interested to see how he attacks each member: specifically Nightwing but also Jason, Damian, Barb (is Killing Joke canon in New 52) etc. In fact, I am probably the least interested in the actual Joker vs Batman dynamic. lol!

I'm pretty sure Killing Joke is canon in the New 52.

I guess what makes this whole thing more exciting is that previously when Joker's done anything to Dick, Jason, Barbara or the others its been simply as a means of getting to Batman. Now he's going to be gunning for each of them specifically which makes everything a lot more interesting. We know how the Joker vs Batman thing will end, it always ends the same way with a different journey to that end used every now and then. With this Joker vs Bat-family individuals thing I can imagine it'll be far more unpredictable.

I just keep asking myself, what can Joker do to Dick that would really tear him down. Sure there's the old "you couldn't save xyz in time" thing but that's kind of cliche at this point in comic book history. I really hope they use this opportunity to really dredge up some of Dick's dirt and make him confront this twisted sick plot in a way that doesn't mimic a run-of-the-mill superhero story.

Babs' stroyline is pretty much laid out already ("how do you confront the single worst night of your life? the guy that put you in a wheelchair, laughing the whole time"). And I like that idea. It could do a lot for showing how Barbara has progressed. In addition, it seems like a relatively fresh idea to me. Hope they do something similar (really dig into his psyche and find an original plotline) for Grayson

@vernierhawk001 said:

@LuigiBat said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

Exactly. However I feel that the writers have done a good job of keeping the Joker out of the spotlight. Characters of his level (Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Ra's, etc.) shouldn't be used too often, because they'll start to lose impact.

Most def. Like I said, I'm all for seeing Joker return...especially Joker under Snyder. And I'm even more interested to see how he attacks each member: specifically Nightwing but also Jason, Damian, Barb (is Killing Joke canon in New 52) etc. In fact, I am probably the least interested in the actual Joker vs Batman dynamic. lol!

I'm pretty sure Killing Joke is canon in the New 52.

I guess what makes this whole thing more exciting is that previously when Joker's done anything to Dick, Jason, Barbara or the others its been simply as a means of getting to Batman. Now he's going to be gunning for each of them specifically which makes everything a lot more interesting. We know how the Joker vs Batman thing will end, it always ends the same way with a different journey to that end used every now and then. With this Joker vs Bat-family individuals thing I can imagine it'll be far more unpredictable.

I just keep asking myself, what can Joker do to Dick that would really tear him down. Sure there's the old "you couldn't save xyz in time" thing but that's kind of cliche at this point in comic book history. I really hope they use this opportunity to really dredge up some of Dick's dirt and make him confront this twisted sick plot in a way that doesn't mimic a run-of-the-mill superhero story.

Babs' stroyline is pretty much laid out already ("how do you confront the single worst night of your life? the guy that put you in a wheelchair, laughing the whole time"). And I like that idea. It could do a lot for showing how Barbara has progressed. In addition, it seems like a relatively fresh idea to me. Hope they do something similar (really dig into his psyche and find an original plotline) for Grayson

I'm with you there man. Higgins recently tweeted something along the lines of "Just looked at some of the new art, safe to say its NOT looking good for DG", its most likely to create suspense and put people on edge prior to release but it makes me wonder as to what they could do to Dick that would ruin him. At this point you kind of look at Dick and think that there isn't all that much he hasn't experienced.

My best bet is that Joker is going to destroy the family dynamic by making each member of the group doubt each other, he'll set each a situation where they rely on one of their 'family members' to help them only to make it impossible for said family to help but then make it appear that they simply abandoned the individual in question. At the end of the day who can they kill in this arc? For all Higgins' toying with us I highly doubt Dick will die and none of the other family members can be killed off either so soon into a reboot of the universe. I mean, they didn't bring Babs out of the wheelchair to put her into a grave a year later, nor did they make Bruce younger so as to kill him off once more after a year.

@LuigiBat said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@LuigiBat said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

I kind of agree with the sentiment that something about the family is going to deteriorate. Not sure exactly what (and I don't really want to see a whole lot more Batfamily drama). I really hope they leave Alfred alone. I think the only characters they could kill who would effect the whole family dynamic would be Dick and Alfred. I'm pulling for them both to make it through. Actually, I'm hoping this arc elevates Grayson's character somehow

The thing that I hate, is that it seems like the family just finally started to get together (Save Damian attacking the others) and put the drama behind them. For something to happen now to destroy that just really sucks.

I am excited for the Joker's return however.

Understood. I am also excited for Jokers Return but if the family dynamic is destroyed....it just seems so soon. Like you said, seems like things were just calming down. Sometimes you just want folks to be happy (in this case, not actively seeking to kill each other) for a while. Dang

Exactly. However I feel that the writers have done a good job of keeping the Joker out of the spotlight. Characters of his level (Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Ra's, etc.) shouldn't be used too often, because they'll start to lose impact.

Most def. Like I said, I'm all for seeing Joker return...especially Joker under Snyder. And I'm even more interested to see how he attacks each member: specifically Nightwing but also Jason, Damian, Barb (is Killing Joke canon in New 52) etc. In fact, I am probably the least interested in the actual Joker vs Batman dynamic. lol!

I'm pretty sure Killing Joke is canon in the New 52.

I guess what makes this whole thing more exciting is that previously when Joker's done anything to Dick, Jason, Barbara or the others its been simply as a means of getting to Batman. Now he's going to be gunning for each of them specifically which makes everything a lot more interesting. We know how the Joker vs Batman thing will end, it always ends the same way with a different journey to that end used every now and then. With this Joker vs Bat-family individuals thing I can imagine it'll be far more unpredictable.

I just keep asking myself, what can Joker do to Dick that would really tear him down. Sure there's the old "you couldn't save xyz in time" thing but that's kind of cliche at this point in comic book history. I really hope they use this opportunity to really dredge up some of Dick's dirt and make him confront this twisted sick plot in a way that doesn't mimic a run-of-the-mill superhero story.

Babs' stroyline is pretty much laid out already ("how do you confront the single worst night of your life? the guy that put you in a wheelchair, laughing the whole time"). And I like that idea. It could do a lot for showing how Barbara has progressed. In addition, it seems like a relatively fresh idea to me. Hope they do something similar (really dig into his psyche and find an original plotline) for Grayson

I'm with you there man. Higgins recently tweeted something along the lines of "Just looked at some of the new art, safe to say its NOT looking good for DG", its most likely to create suspense and put people on edge prior to release but it makes me wonder as to what they could do to Dick that would ruin him. At this point you kind of look at Dick and think that there isn't all that much he hasn't experienced.

My best bet is that Joker is going to destroy the family dynamic by making each member of the group doubt each other, he'll set each a situation where they rely on one of their 'family members' to help them only to make it impossible for said family to help but then make it appear that they simply abandoned the individual in question. At the end of the day who can they kill in this arc? For all Higgins' toying with us I highly doubt Dick will die and none of the other family members can be killed off either so soon into a reboot of the universe. I mean, they didn't bring Babs out of the wheelchair to put her into a grave a year later, nor did they make Bruce younger so as to kill him off once more after a year.

Agreed all around. I simply don't see anyone dying. If Final Crisis had never happened, I could see Bruce dying. If it wasn't so soon after a Reboot, I could see Dick dying. If his story wasn't going as well as it is, I could see Jason dying. If DC wasn't trying so hard to separate him from the rest, I could see Tim dying. If Bruce and Damian had actually had a decent relationship/partnership up until now, or Damian was still working with Dick, I could see him dying. As you said, Barbara just got out of the chair (A major change in the character's life after years of being quite successful as Oracle) So all that considered I think something's going to happen internally between all the family members, not just Bruce and Dick or Jason and Tim, but everyone will be effected by this. Don't really want this to happen, because as I have said it seems like the family is just really starting to come together as a whole, and Dick's got his whole "Prince of Gotham" thing going on now.

I for one am ready to be blown away. The solicits for Nightwing sound kind of lame to be honest, I'll brace myself nonetheless.

@SmoothJammin said:

I for one am ready to be blown away. The solicits for Nightwing sound kind of lame to be honest, I'll brace myself nonetheless.

Really? What have you heard/seen?