Should Nightwing have had a "Falling Out" with Bruce?

#1 Posted by nmiller1939 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

First, let me clarify: I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about when he first took the identity. Do you like the idea that he and Bruce had a fight and they split off from each other, or that Dick just felt he had outgrown the role and it was time to move on? It's been done both ways: Judas Contract made it just a personal choice, but that was changed by COIE. BTAS had the falling out, but in Young Justice, he seems to have just moved on (hasn't been shown, but there is no apparent tension between Bruce and Dick, and it wouldn't make sense to me for them to have that in the time gap but for it to ultimately never matter at all).

So which do you prefer? Personally, I like the idea that he just felt ready to move on. I never really liked that conflict, and Judas Contract made the transition beautifully. I just think it makes the identity look better. If he did it on his own, it really is him just maturing and becoming his own man. If he was fired from the role or did it out of anger at Bruce, it makes it look a lot less like maturing and more like a teenage rebellion.

#2 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the idea of the argument and it still could have happened in Young Justice time frame.

#3 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

@nmiller1939: Both ideas work, but to be honest, I agree with you. I'll go with the maturity choice.

#4 Posted by Nightwing_Beyond (153 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer him just moving on. In the timelines which had them split up due to arguements, it always made Nightwing angsty like in btas. Also, in the fight scenerio, Nightwing's story always becomes about proving himself to Batman, not becoming the leader and hero that Dick knew he could be if he left the Robin mantle behind him.

#5 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@nmiller1939: I loved the idea. Marv Wolfman and Chris Claremont were the reason I developed a love for comics. Bats need to be put on the back burner so Nightwing could come about. It was just perfect!

#6 Posted by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

Well except Damian ( Who is AWESOME), the rest of the Bat Family have now had their fallout with Batman after DOTF.

#7 Posted by dicksihavestudied (35 posts) - - Show Bio

I love The Judas Contract and am not a big fan of Nightwing: Year One (which has the most developed fight scenario). With the fight, Bruce looks like a horrible person, especially by YO. He fires Dick for no reason, takes away an identity he had no right to take away (Dick created the Robin identity himself by this time and the name was a tribute to his mother, His mother! Bruce, of all people, should understand the sensitive nature of that), and generally acts like a jerk. I think Judas Contract is also better because it feels relatable and bittersweet: we all group up and it can be sad. But, ultimately, we forge ahead and become better people. YO and its ilk threw in too much unnecessary drama. Instead of feeling moved, I was pissed.

#8 Posted by Thorcules (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Think it was he was to mature. Yep I like that.

#9 Posted by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

I rather he just matured

#10 Posted by DEGRAAF (7876 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the argument should still stand.

#11 Posted by smiling4ever (35 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nightwing_Beyond said:

I prefer him just moving on. In the timelines which had them split up due to arguements, it always made Nightwing angsty like in btas. Also, in the fight scenerio, Nightwing's story always becomes about proving himself to Batman, not becoming the leader and hero that Dick knew he could be if he left the Robin mantle behind him.

I agree.

#12 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1607 posts) - - Show Bio

Both work and I like them for different reasons. The maturity example is the crowning moment of the classic dynamic duo relationship, with the proud father watching as his son finally decides to leave the cave and take to the skies where he belongs. It's handled with the utmost amount of care and respect to both characters, with each feeling the weight of the moment and recognizing the end of an era. Put simply, it's storytelling at it's finest. The firing example however works for the new age, with a darker Batman, touching on the ways both have changed over the years. It highlights a more strained relationship between the two, one that many fathers and sons go through as the son grows older, with the father being too controlling. Both relationships are true and can be seen in real life I think, and therefore neither really trumps the other.

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#13 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Both work and I like them for different reasons. The maturity example is the crowning moment of the classic dynamic duo relationship, with the proud father watching as his son finally decides to leave the cave and take to the skies where he belongs. It's handled with the utmost amount of care and respect to both characters, with each feeling the weight of the moment and recognizing the end of an era. Put simply, it's storytelling at it's finest. The firing example however works for the new age, with a darker Batman, touching on the ways both have changed over the years. It highlights a more strained relationship between the two, one that many fathers and sons go through as the son grows older, with the father being too controlling. Both relationships are true and can be seen in real life I think, and therefore neither really trumps the other.

Great post. I definitely agree that both approaches are equally valid.

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