Rogue Gallery Villains?

#1 Posted by JayAaerow (452 posts) - - Show Bio

Who would you choose to be a rogue gallery villain for Nightwing?

#2 Posted by batmannflash (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: what do u mean by rogue gallery villaln?

#3 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

I assume you're asking who we think should be on Dick's Rogue's Gallery?

Deathstroke

Lady Shiva

Doctor Light (He recently died though I believe, and was also more heroic than in the past. A revival and switch to villain could easily change that though)

Blockbuster

Brother Blood

A Clayface (There have been so many that honestly I think Batman could spare one)

James Gordon Jr.

Black Mask/Jeremiah Arkham (He appeared as Black Mask during Dick's tenure as Batman, so I only think it's fitting that this version stay as one of Dick's Rogues)

Prankster (Obviously)

Saiko (Should never have been killed off, but I don't believe we ever saw a body. In comics that means you're available to be used in future storylines)

The Heretic (If he hadn't been killed off it we could've gotten some interesting stories from Dick fighting not only Damian's killer, but a twisted version of his partner/little brother. As it is, it's always possible that Talia had another clone somewhere)

#4 Edited by JayAaerow (452 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8600 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: There is only one Clayface in new 52,but he have Spinebinder which is very similar. New 52 is re-rebooted to be able to keep up with powerhouses,then nope. Doctor Light and Bother Blood is a very long shot.....and would be overkill. Read Batman inc 13 when Ra's Al Ghull take over League of Assassins again and shown a room full of clones. Jeremiah Arkham is a good person now and won't return to villany for a very long time.

New 52 rogues gallery:

Court of Owls (They still wants Dick to be a part of it).

Talon/William Cobb (His own Grandfather).

Paragon and the Republic of Tomorrow.

Lady Shiva (She's both nightwing and batman villain).

Tony Zucco.

Feedback.

Prankster.

Spinebinder (shape-shifter villain).

#6 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: There is only one Clayface in new 52,but he have Spinebinder which is very similar. New 52 is re-rebooted to be able to keep up with powerhouses,then nope. Doctor Light and Bother Blood is a very long shot.....and would be overkill. Read Batman inc 13 when Ra's Al Ghull take over League of Assassins again and shown a room full of clones. Jeremiah Arkham is a good person now and won't return to villany for a very long time.

New 52 rogues gallery:

Court of Owls (They still wants Dick to be a part of it).

Talon/William Cobb (His own Grandfather).

Paragon and the Republic of Tomorrow.

Lady Shiva (She's both nightwing and batman villain).

Tony Zucco.

Feedback.

Prankster.

Spinebinder (shape-shifter villain).

Well none of these are expected to take place tomorrow or within the next few weeks. It's takes time to effectively establish a Rogue's Gallery, so there's really all the time in the world to create a new Clayface. Arkham being good now, like Doctor Light, doesn't mean anything, especially when he was good before and still went down the criminal path. I stopped reading Batman Inc and am just waiting for the collected volume's to drop to get the full story, but if Ra's showed a room full of Damian clones then that's just asking for a writer to use one as a future villain.

#7 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8600 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: Dc was already stablished there is only one Clayface, there will not be another because this cause confusion,have characters with the same name and powers, so forget and there is spinebinder for that. Forget Doctor Light he's dead and will not come back,since his body was used as bomb in JLA 7 and not mention received a massive upgrade as does with Brother Blood.

Add more and more villains will only cause others to be forgotten, assimcomo happened with almost 50% of Batman's rogues gallery, as more characters were added others were forgotten and were not developed. Then is better develop these villains before created another as is being doing with Prankster,they're establishing him.

#8 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: Dc was already stablished there is only one Clayface, there will not be another because this cause confusion,have characters with the same name and powers, so forget and there is spinebinder for that. Forget Doctor Light he's dead and will not come back,since his body was used as bomb in JLA 7 and not mention received a massive upgrade as does with Brother Blood.

Add more and more villains will only cause others to be forgotten, assimcomo happened with almost 50% of Batman's rogues gallery, as more characters were added others were forgotten and were not developed. Then is better develop these villains before created another as is being doing with Prankster,they're establishing him.

That argument could be made for so many characters causing confusion among fans, yet they always manage just fine, so that argument doesn't hold up in the slightest. If the name was really that big of an issue they could just change the name slightly, and along with a different look and origin it'll work itself out, similar to Captain Cold, Killer Frost, and Mr. Freeze. Oh please, characters die and get revived all the time. Discounting a character just because he's currently dead is silly, and like I said this list is looking down the line, years in the future where what's currently going on really won't mean anything. I'm not saying they should add all of these people at once, what they're doing with Prankster is perfect. 5-10 years in the future they could've done the same with a dozen other villains and have each be just as established in Dick's life as Bruce's Main Rogue's and the Flash's Rogues are in their's.

#9 Edited by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher:

he may soon return becuase it looks like that's who Bats and NW are fighting in Batman and Nightwing #23 on Wednesday or more then likely its just a flashback. but theoretically he could be brought back at any time as the Last Batman Inc revealed there were many many Damian clones that could also be aged and enhanced.

#10 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8600 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not know why he has to catch villains from other heroes,for a chance he had useless vilains or dumb writers? they aren't capable to created or developed these villains?

If the name was really that big of an issue they could just change the name slightly, and along with a different look and origin it'll work itself out, similar to Captain Cold, Killer Frost, and Mr. Freeze.

They are characters with similar powers and not equal, apart from that there are many characteristics to differentiate them,their personalities,costumes,names and motives are totally different,then there is not point in mentioning them.

Oh please, characters die and get revived all the time. Discounting a character just because he's currently dead is silly, and like I said this list is looking down the line, years in the future where what's currently going on really won't mean anything. I'm not s

How many characters are resurrected during New 52? Only Black Adam (if he really died in JL 21).If you read the various interviews about the new 52 would know that this kind of thing is being avoided to the maximum and most likely will not happen for a long time. Why would be needed add characters who are ridiculous above his league? To prove he is A-list hero?

. I'm not saying they should add all of these people at once, what they're doing with Prankster is perfect. 5-10 years in the future they could've done the same with a dozen other villains and have each be just as established in Dick's life as Bruce's Main Rogue's and the Flash's Rogues are in their's.

How long took to establish the Court of Owls and the Talons? Six months? One year?

#11 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21 said:

I do not know why he has to catch villains from other heroes,for a chance he had useless vilains or dumb writers? they aren't capable to created or developed these villains?

If the name was really that big of an issue they could just change the name slightly, and along with a different look and origin it'll work itself out, similar to Captain Cold, Killer Frost, and Mr. Freeze.

They are characters with similar powers and not equal, apart from that there are many characteristics to differentiate them,their personalities,costumes,names and motives are totally different,then there is not point in mentioning them.

Oh please, characters die and get revived all the time. Discounting a character just because he's currently dead is silly, and like I said this list is looking down the line, years in the future where what's currently going on really won't mean anything. I'm not s

How many characters are resurrected during New 52? Only Black Adam (if he really died in JL 21).If you read the various interviews about the new 52 would know that this kind of thing is being avoided to the maximum and most likely will not happen for a long time. Why would be needed add characters who are ridiculous above his league? To prove he is A-list hero?

. I'm not saying they should add all of these people at once, what they're doing with Prankster is perfect. 5-10 years in the future they could've done the same with a dozen other villains and have each be just as established in Dick's life as Bruce's Main Rogue's and the Flash's Rogues are in their's.

How long took to establish the Court of Owls and the Talons? Six months? One year?

Of course they can as has been shown with the Prankster. However, the question the OP's asking calls for characters that exist at this moment, characters we currently know of.

Everything you stated about them is exactly what could be done with Clayface.

You talk about it being avoided for a long period of time, as i've mentioned before i'm specifically talking about a Rogue's Gallery that won't exist for a long period of time, so that's not really an issue. I also don't have any confidence in DC avoiding reviving dead characters forever. If you do, then that's on you. Also, Batman also faces people that are "above" his league. Every non-powered hero does. It has nothing to do with being A-List in my mind, it's simply to add a general trend of variety amongst the Rogues group and allow for the hero to face different situations and confront problems from various angles, without backup every once in a while.

It was a little over a year to establish the Court of Owls over multiple titles (And that wasn't just establishing but introducing, expanding, and wrapping up their entire story, in what was a massive event.). So as I said, and i'm once again imagining this in the future tense, in 5-10 years they could've established a decent Rogue's Gallery for Dick without a problem

@ritchieb And there you go then. Again, if clones were revealed then that's just bait being laid out for another writer to pick up at a certain point.

#12 Edited by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher:

I agree. there is no way that DC is not going to bring back some characters. the sad part is DC never invests in Dick Grayson and he is still a very popular character just look at his sales. I mean Dick has been around almost as long as Bruce and he should already have a large rouge gallery of villains. but DC's problem is as soon as they make a great villain they automatically add him to the Bat Gallery or give him to another character. None of Nightwings villains stay with him.

. for example

Deathstroke- Major villain from his TT days and there were a lot of good stories between Deathstroke and NW. Now DS has gone after Jason Todd and I think Tim's Titans as well but has not even seen Nightwing.

Blockbuster- changed into a minor villain in the JLA series.

Gordon jr, - Now a bab's villain and in the suicide squad now

Court Of Owls- should be exclusive Nightwing villains since he is the "Grey-son" but have been changed into Batman and Talon Villains

Saiko- killed off

Nightwing has had not had a single villain that has lasted through out his entire run. as were Batman always has had the Joker ( joker was never killed off or anything or made into another characters main villain)

Supes has always had Lex.

the problem is not the writers inability to create great villains its DC's inability to invest in Nightwing.

I also strongly disagree with the other guy these villains are not way above Nightwings level and in truth Dick should ultimately be a better hero then Bruce. Now before every one cries " oh Dick can never ever beat Bruce cuz Bats is the bestest"

Pick up Batman Zero Year (Bruces first year a Batman) and compare it to Dick's first (and only) year as Batman. Then honestly compare them side by side and tell me who was the better Batman and it's obviously Dick. (once again only considering those two comics side by side)

now consider the fact the Bruce started when he was around 25/26 Dick became Batman before he as 21 (because that's around the age he is now). then add four more years to that and Nightwing will be far above Bruces level in the future.

If you got in a time capsule and plucked 25 year old Bruce from the first issue of zero year and went into the future four more years and took Nightwing from the first issue four years from now. Nightwing would absolutely destroy Bruce Wayne.

Now there's all this BS saying " Bruce is a better detective and blah blah blah" but look at Dick Grayson's Batman. he was much more serious and much more focused then he had been previously as Nightwing. The simple fact is Nightwing has a ten year advantage (in the new 52) over Bruce Wayne. so even if it took Nightwing ten years to catch up to Bruce Wayne on a detective level, Nightwing would be better because Nightwing has already surpassed Bruce in some aspects like leadership.

#13 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb Yep. The potential is and always has been there, they just never put the time in. When they do, it always seems as if it's only temporary before they just tear everything apart for Dick and start over again. None of his villains every stay his villains, or alive for that matter. I still think Saiko was a terrible waste of a character. At least Blockbuster was around for a while to challenge Dick.

#14 Posted by Alak (926 posts) - - Show Bio

Arch-nemesis: Deathstroke

- James Gordon Jr.

- Blockbuster II

- Lady Vic (she belongs to Dick, forget about Batwing)

- Brutale

- William Cobb

- Lady Shiva

- Paragon

I also miss the days when Jason Todd would be Dick's rival during his run as Batman. Given how everything's playing out in the New 52, it seems like this match-up would be unlikely. However, it'd now be cool to see crossovers where they team-up and Nightwing gets to fight Red Hood's rogues.

#15 Posted by JayAaerow (452 posts) - - Show Bio

@alak said:

Arch-nemesis: Deathstroke

- James Gordon Jr.

- Blockbuster II

- Lady Vic (she belongs to Dick, forget about Batwing)

- Brutale

- William Cobb

- Lady Shiva

- Paragon

I also miss the days when Jason Todd would be Dick's rival during his run as Batman. Given how everything's playing out in the New 52, it seems like this match-up would be unlikely. However, it'd now be cool to see crossovers where they team-up and Nightwing gets to fight Red Hood's rogues.

I agree with everything except Paragon. I don't like him and was surprised they actually prolonged the fight due to Nightwing being in enclosed spaced(That was a dumb reason) and to me, he sucks! He just randomly founds a group and tries to lead them, ends up killing them, and then somehow gives Nightwing a hard time. The fact they didn't even explain where he got the skills from and somehow is able to give Nightwing a hardtime was a headache. He wouldn't last more than 3 or 4 pages in Batman's book. He was almost as bad as Saiko IMO. Random character able to all of a sudden give him trouble. At least Saiko had training that was described.

I share the same opinon with Lady Vic. Screw Batwing having her. That's just unfair! That character was specifically for Nightwing, not Batwing. Urgh!

#16 Posted by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: @alak:

I love the fact that Nightwing is being featured in villains month but I have been wondering if having his villains take over his book might be needed even more. I mean seriously who can you put on Nightwing's take over book? Saiko is dead. Prankster is already being featured. and Paragon was weak. Shiva was only passing by. So who could DC really needs to add some one. Nightwing building his rouge gallery would be really helpful in September since that what a lot of the other books are getting. Hopefully he gets both main featured and builds up some villains along the way.

#17 Posted by JayAaerow (452 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb: From what I heard, no villain is taking his book, which is sad because a hero like him that has been around this long already should have. Some heroes who have been around less than him gets some. -_-

#18 Edited by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: We're coming upon his 75th anniversary right? One has to wonder if DC is doing this on purpose.. by this time next year he can easily be sitting at the helm of an illustrious team like JL. If Forever Evil doesn't launch him into super stardom they're only shooting themselves in the foot. He will never seize a better opportunity than this. There will be other chances down the road, but none will have the same impact/momentum as we're witnessing in Forever Evil.

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