Off My Mind: Will Nightwing and Batgirl Hook Up in DC's 'New 52'?

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#101 Posted by Tyranisrex (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Could be an interesting dynamic for the duo (no pun intended).....still, Grayson seems to be DC's resident Ladies Man, eiter way some good story can come out of it.
 
~Rex

#102 Posted by Gregomasta (333 posts) - - Show Bio

Not need a man, psh.  People need people. 

#103 Edited by thewidowsbite (138 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm personally a huge fan of Dick and Babs, but Nightstar1 does bring up a compelling argument. However in adressing the retcons in developing Dick and Babs love story, how many times have retcon's happened in DC or comics in general that we've grown to accept as canon? Power Girl's name has come up quite a bit and she's a prime example: she went from being Kara Zor-L from Krypton, to Kara of Atlantis, back to Kara Zor-L from Krypton again... Retcons are cheap and usually very annoying, but in this instance I like the relationship between Dick and Babs no matter how it began. Like the other guy said, I didn't grow up with the New Teen Titans and Dick and Kory's relationship and for me his relationship with Babs isn't really a retcon, so forgive me if I might be a little biased. I love Kory and her relationship with Dick. I loved it in the comics (I read the graphic novels of the 80's New Teen Titans) and in the animated show. However I also loved Dick's relationship with Babs in Batman the animated series (the show I grew up with).

It's late where I am, so I'm kind of talking in circles... but I feel that Dick and Babs have a lot of chemistry and a great deal of longing for one another. They obviously love each other very much and have a relationship that was never really given a chance. It seems he and Kory have hooked up a lot since the last time they really had a relationship. I feel that because of this and their never really getting back together (aside from random sexual encounters) that trying to get back together for them is like beating a dead horse. Yes, they're still very attracted to one another which is only natural since they are both incredibly attractive people, but they just can't seem to find a way back together as a real couple. I think for Dick, hooking up with Kory was convenient and though he no doubt still cares for her and may still have some feelings for her, he doesn't really lobe her anymore the way he loved her in his college years. They've grown up, they're more mature adults now, if they can't seem to get it right now, it seems they understand that their relationship will never have that hopeless love it once had. I feel this is a good thing because it's realistic: people fall in love, people break up, people still have moments of lapsing back into love and/or sex, people realize that sometimes love between two people just doesn't last. 
 
Babs and Dick have rarely had much of a relationship in recent times aside from the proposal, and I feel that because of the flashbacks and extreme longing between one another on a more emotional level demonstrates that the love they share is beyond simply sexual which, like it or not, Dick and Kory's relationship had been reduced two (i.e. Outsiders and Titans). Not all great relationships and love stories have to be personified with sex, you can love someone from afar more than someone you're with physically.
 
I just think that Babs helps keep Dick grounded and that he helps bring some more of the fun-loving side of her. I feel like they deserve at least a chance. Even if historically they had little more between each other than a mildy significant age difference before, you can't deny that they look really good together and seem to be very happy when they're together (NOT counting the above image from Batgirl #3, which is most likely misleading to the actual storyline that takes place within). 
 
I'm not saying they deserve to be together anymore than Dick and Kory do, but they deserve a chance, and us Dick/Babs fans deserve a chance to see their love for each other explored and not yanked around.
#104 Posted by ArkhamInmate (40 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they belong together in a special way... if they would make it official they probably would break up after some time so I prefer the idea of Dick and Babs having some moments without the big "the crime - fighting loving pair" thing 
With the freedom - loving Dick having some other girls and Barbara not willing to admit her real feelings their relationship keeps being interesting  
That's what I think but in general I think they belong to each other 
 
(Sorry bout my English fellows ;) )

#105 Posted by dondasch (926 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still more concerned with how Gail Simone will miraculously grant Barbara Gordon the use of her legs again.  I know she is a great writer, but this retcon bothers me.  Killing Joke was such an awesome novel.

#106 Posted by blackair9 (96 posts) - - Show Bio

dick and Kory is cool but but I would be find with Dick and Babs, just no more green arrow/black canary fiasco its like all the writers are afraid to write about superhero couples.

#107 Posted by andrea_mendoza1997 (342 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm kind of in the middle of this.

#108 Posted by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor Starfire. Getting shafted by the DC editors. And not by Dick.

#109 Posted by Henrypm (30 posts) - - Show Bio

why they should hook eachater

#110 Posted by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio
@summers_frost

I'm sorry, but I disagree with a couple of things that you wrote. I care about these characters and their past histories together, that they be treated with integrity and respect and as long as one person cares, it matters. To me these two women and their pasts together are equally important to who Dick is or will be and because of this I came to relize while writing my post that both of them still have the potential of being the best woman for him.

But the vast difference is that the real history of Dick and Kory has been replaced with the retconned history of Dick and Babs. Batgirl was created in the comics for the campy Batman television series. At the time when Dick was in high school, Barbara was out of college and working. In the comics, when Dick was going to college at Hudson University, Barbara was a congresswoman. He might have flirted with her, but she didn't take him any more seriously than Dick Grayson took Bette Kane (Flamebird). The sad part is that DC got both greedy and lazy. They got greedy because they took back a Dick Grayson/NIghtwing which they gave away 13 years earlier and took all the work that the Titans writers had put into him and threw it in the garbage. He's a completely different character. And then they got lazy. Instead of Dick and Kory breaking up and Dick finding that he had an interest in Barbara Gordon AFTER THE FACT and start a history with her, they had to make stuff up. They basically made stuff up about when and how Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon were in a relationship.  
 
 

Since I keep reading that the reboot won't affect the Bat Family so much, I think there is a good chance their pasts won't change in the new cannon and until we know for sure whether or not it does, the past should matter to the fans of these three. 

Well, of course it won't matter to the Bat-Family. Kory and Dick's relationship isn't relevant to the Bat-Family since they're retconned Dick and Barbara's relationship. And the past won't change from what? The years of monogamous relationship that Dick and Kory shared in the TItans books? Or the one where Dick and Barbara were sleeping together the night before Dick and Kory were to be married? Or are they going to retcon it to the point where she was just another notch on his bedpost like Huntress? I can't wait to see how DC manages the Dick/Kory relationship. My guess is that they'll use the final draft as a piece of toilet paper.  
 
My contribution to the whole reboot nonsense is to not care about it. Why throw money at DC for making more useless changes. 
#111 Edited by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio
@thewidowsbite:   

Like the other guy said, I didn't grow up with the New Teen Titans and Dick and Kory's relationship and for me his relationship with Babs isn't really a retcon, 

Whether or not you read Titans or "consider" it retcon, Dick and Babs relationship was retconned. In fact, I can't find an issue of any comic that shows him being interested in her (that isn't taken by her as being 'not serious") before 1998 when the conning began.  
 
And what is even more disheartening is that a character so perfect as Barbara - being flawed, vulnerable but with strength and a wonderful mind is being retconned into someone perfect. Now, she's younger and stronger and Perfect - a genius, even! With some supposed inner struggles or some such BS. I mean, Barbara Gordon is becoming her own Mary Sue. How sad is that? They're taking a good character - a positive role model for people with disabilities. She had a great crime fighting career, had a tragedy and managed to work out an even greater crime fighting career, and now they're making her into a Steprford super heroine.  Thanks DC. 
#112 Posted by thewidowsbite (138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nightstar1 said:


                    @thewidowsbite:   

Like the other guy said, I didn't grow up with the New Teen Titans and Dick and Kory's relationship and for me his relationship with Babs isn't really a retcon, 

Whether or not you read Titans or "consider" it retcon, Dick and Babs relationship was retconned. In fact, I can't find an issue of any comic that shows him being interested in her (that isn't taken by her as being 'not serious") before 1998 when the conning began.   And what is even more disheartening is that a character so perfect as Barbara - being flawed, vulnerable but with strength and a wonderful mind is being retconned into someone perfect. Now, she's younger and stronger and Perfect - a genius, even! With some supposed inner struggles or some such BS. I mean, Barbara Gordon is becoming her own Mary Sue. How sad is that? They're taking a good character - a positive role model for people with disabilities. She had a great crime fighting career, had a tragedy and managed to work out an even greater crime fighting career, and now they're making her into a Steprford super heroine.  Thanks DC. 

                   

               

Yeah... that's why I said for ME it didn't feel like a retcon. And I never denied it was one, I just said that like any other retcon it should (and has) be considered as fact like any other retcon there ever has been in DC. The way I see it, DC is turning into a giant retcon as a whole; look at Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, and now the upcoming reboot. These writers are constanty changing any and everything about every aspect of the comics in order to pull in more readers. Half the things that are changed are either welcomed or overlooked by fans. So if you're against Dick and Barbara's relationship because it happened via retcon, you might as well be against everything pertaining to DC comics at all.
#113 Posted by Nwing77 (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@thewidowsbite said:
@Nightstar1 said:


                    @thewidowsbite:   

                  
               

Yeah... that's why I said for ME it didn't feel like a retcon. And I never denied it was one, I just said that like any other retcon it should (and has) be considered as fact like any other retcon there ever has been in DC. The way I see it, DC is turning into a giant retcon as a whole; look at Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, and now the upcoming reboot. These writers are constanty changing any and everything about every aspect of the comics in order to pull in more readers. Half the things that are changed are either welcomed or overlooked by fans. So if you're against Dick and Barbara's relationship because it happened via retcon, you might as well be against everything pertaining to DC comics at all.


That's asinine logic.  'If we're against the Babs & Dick relationship via retcons, we're against all of the DCU'?  No.  The two are not even comparable.  Post Crisis and Zero-Hour were planned out events that solidified what DC was changing and rebooting all across the board.  Dick and Koriand'r's relationship was still in existance post Zero-hour.  It was never erased or altered.  Not until years later when Bat editorial wanted to pump up Bab's presence in Dick's past.   
 
And unlike some changes that are made long after IC & ZH, it wasn't a minor thing or singular storyline being retconned.  You're talking nearly 14 years of storyline that become tainted because the Bat crew wants to write the 'wholesome, human looking' Barbara on top of the 'evil, slutty alien' Kory who is now just a barrier to destined 'true love'...  which wasn't a thing with Dick and Bab's until, what, 1995?  Nice. 
 
   
Also, I get the impression that our age differeneces are not that great, as I grew up with the animated series as well.  The difference is I actually LIKE the character of Dick Grayson in the comic books and don't need over a decade's worth of character development destroyed to service the idea of him and Babs as a couple. 
 
Bottom line is that while Dick and Barbara had some cute scenes and good chemistry when written in present-day, unfortunately much of their relationship is written in flashback or through retconned history--usually at the cost of Dick's personal canon.  No relationship should rely on that much cosmetic surgery to make this coupling feel true or iconic.  If that's your cup of tea, more power to you, but I don't have to accept it because 'its comics and things change all the time'.  I just look at the lineage of that relationship against how other prominant couples have unfolded over shifting eras, and assume one has low standards. 
 
#114 Edited by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio
@U R Sofa King We Todd Did:

  Where are these two scans from? 
 


Nightwing Annual 2. The Retcon Continues.  Here is the stunned review of that issue. 
 
http://www.4thletter.net/2007/04/on-nightwing-annual-2/ 
 
The review was the first one my internets hit on. Not a particularly good one, but if you search, you might find someone who thinks this issue is good. 
#115 Edited by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nwing77@Nwing77 said:

@thewidowsbite said:

@Nightstar1 said:



                   

@thewidowsbite

:   

                  
               

Yeah... that's why I said for ME it didn't feel like a retcon. And I never denied it was one, I just said that like any other retcon it should (and has) be considered as fact like any other retcon there ever has been in DC. The way I see it, DC is turning into a giant retcon as a whole; look at Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, and now the upcoming reboot. These writers are constanty changing any and everything about every aspect of the comics in order to pull in more readers. Half the things that are changed are either welcomed or overlooked by fans. So if you're against Dick and Barbara's relationship because it happened via retcon, you might as well be against everything pertaining to DC comics at all.
That's asinine logic.  'If we're against the Babs & Dick relationship via retcons, we're against all of the DCU'?  No.  The two are not even comparable.  Post Crisis and Zero-Hour were planned out events that solidified what DC was changing and rebooting all across the board.  Dick and Koriand'r's relationship was still in existance post Zero-hour.  It was never erased or altered.  Not until years later when Bat editorial wanted to pump up Bab's presence in Dick's past.    And unlike some changes that are made long after IC & ZH, it wasn't a minor thing or singular storyline being retconned.  You're talking nearly 14 years of storyline that become tainted because the Bat crew wants to write the 'wholesome, human looking' Barbara on top of the 'evil, slutty alien' Kory who is now just a barrier to destined 'true love'...  which wasn't a thing with Dick and Bab's until, what, 1995?  Nice.     Also, I get the impression that our age differeneces are not that great, as I grew up with the animated series as well.  The difference is I actually LIKE the character of Dick Grayson in the comic books and don't need over a decade's worth of character development destroyed to service the idea of him and Babs as a couple.  Bottom line is that while Dick and Barbara had some cute scenes and good chemistry when written in present-day, unfortunately much of their relationship is written in flashback or through retconned history--usually at the cost of Dick's personal canon.  No relationship should rely on that much cosmetic surgery to make this coupling feel true or iconic.  If that's your cup of tea, more power to you, but I don't have to accept it because 'its comics and things change all the time'.  I just look at the lineage of that relationship against how other prominant couples have unfolded over shifting eras, and assume one has low standards.  
Well said.  
#116 Posted by Obsurity (263 posts) - - Show Bio

Never really read up on Dick's and Barbara's relationship. I'd probably go with Kory but that might just be because I enjoyed Teen Titans.
#117 Posted by GT-Man (4054 posts) - - Show Bio

It could always be a threesome!

#118 Posted by Nightstar1 (48 posts) - - Show Bio
#119 Posted by X9 (757 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope things finally work out definetely for Dick and Babs. It's worked before, and it was delightful to watch the development of their relationship during the years.

Plus, I think Barbara has much more to offer Dick as a lover/partner than Kory. She and Dick had/have nothing to do with each other and it's clear enough he'll always rather Babs than the allien.

She'd be a better company for Jason. I'm loving what's going on between them, hope they don't blow it (and by "they" I mean the writers hehe)

#120 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people go nuts over these two? Like Babs can't hook up with anyone else or it's taboo

#121 Posted by X9 (757 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not a taboo, at least not for me. It's just that any relationship that she or Dick get into seem much weaker than the one they have with each other.

#122 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick + Kory has been done to death...

#123 Posted by X9 (757 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed. Enough of this, even Kory's fans know it won't work out. Never really did for me. Kinda of an excuse for Dick not be considered a completely disaster when it comes to women. Or aliens :P

It'd make a lot more sense if both Dick and Barbara matured and changed enough till find their way back. As it's supposed to be.

#124 Posted by among (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Where are the first three strips from?

#125 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

They don't belong together. I think they should see other people. That whole 'Batgirl falls in love with Robin' thing annoys me.

#126 Edited by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive: Hell yea. I can't stand her with Nightwing. I feel like I'm reading about a married couple already, hate it!

#127 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio

Babs x Dick = DC OTP

Moderator
#128 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

Babs x Dick = DC OTP

...and again.

#129 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Mercy_ said:

Babs x Dick = DC OTP

...and again.

It's scary, right?

Moderator
#130 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

@ReVamp said:

@Mercy_ said:

Babs x Dick = DC OTP

...and again.

It's scary, right?

Yes. And I can't even troll right now, Grayson is serious sh!t.

#131 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

Grayson is serious sh!t.

Probs my favorite DC character.

Moderator
#132 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

@ReVamp said:

Grayson is serious sh!t.

Probs my favorite DC character.

<3

You get bumped the fck up in my cool people list.

#133 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

God, I love them together.

#134 Posted by X9 (757 posts) - - Show Bio

@oraclefyre said:

God, I love them together.

Yeah, and I liked how their relationship is portrayed in the New 52. It's sweet and promising hehe.

#135 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl #3. Hard to believe it was so long ago... This get an official Vamp Bump.

#136 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing and Batgirl need to hook up.

B!tch a$$ hoe needs to give her suit back to Steph Brown cause so I can see my dream team up.

#137 Posted by Saucedo17 (135 posts) - - Show Bio

No I don't want to see Dick and Babs get together

#138 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

This needs to happen.

#139 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist: I'd rather see her hook up with Jason :P

#140 Posted by Imperius_Rex (452 posts) - - Show Bio

I think dick needs to throw a curve ball and nail the huntress he needs some crazy chick to balance his good heart haha

#141 Posted by ZenTzen (56 posts) - - Show Bio

anyone but Babs

#142 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

"SIGH" I could write an essay on this topic. At the moment its too late for that though. Let me just say that as of right now he's been in relationship's with both Babs and Kori in the New 52. I think both of those past relationships need to be fully explained so that we know what we're working with here, or we need to be told if they're exactly the same as they were Pre-Flashpoint. I see him interacting with both women at different points, but to be honest i'd like to see him with someone new. Not just someone different, but a completely new character that can be built from the ground up and develop her own history with Dick. That's one of the things i've noticed Bruce has over Dick. He's had relationships with numerous women and not just flings, but actual important relationships so that when we debate on his greatest love/soulmate more than two names come up.

#143 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

"SIGH" I could write an essay on this topic. At the moment its too late for that though. Let me just say that as of right now he's been in relationship's with both Babs and Kori in the New 52. I think both of those past relationships need to be fully explained so that we know what we're working with here, or we need to be told if they're exactly the same as they were Pre-Flashpoint. I see him interacting with both women at different points, but to be honest i'd like to see him with someone new. Not just someone different, but a completely new character that can be built from the ground up and develop her own history with Dick. That's one of the things i've noticed Bruce has over Dick. He's had relationships with numerous women and not just flings, but actual important relationships so that when we debate on his greatest love/soulmate more than two names come up.

I'd be willing to bet that his relationship history with Kori and Babs is exactly the same/similar as what occurred Pre-Flashpoint purely because DC haven't bothered to change all that much in the New 52.

#144 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1638 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

"SIGH" I could write an essay on this topic. At the moment its too late for that though. Let me just say that as of right now he's been in relationship's with both Babs and Kori in the New 52. I think both of those past relationships need to be fully explained so that we know what we're working with here, or we need to be told if they're exactly the same as they were Pre-Flashpoint. I see him interacting with both women at different points, but to be honest i'd like to see him with someone new. Not just someone different, but a completely new character that can be built from the ground up and develop her own history with Dick. That's one of the things i've noticed Bruce has over Dick. He's had relationships with numerous women and not just flings, but actual important relationships so that when we debate on his greatest love/soulmate more than two names come up.

I'd be willing to bet that his relationship history with Kori and Babs is exactly the same/similar as what occurred Pre-Flashpoint purely because DC haven't bothered to change all that much in the New 52.

Exactly. So in that case he'd have two past relationships that have failed in the past. I honestly don't have a problem with Dick and Barbara hooking up, but if things are like they were Pre-Flashpoint I think it may just turn into retreading old territory. Better to introduce someone new to expand the franchise and character.

#145 Posted by DurararaFTW (73 posts) - - Show Bio

Well let's look at the changes that the new 52 have brought about.

Starfire, the clear obvious true love of Dick's life has been rebooted to having significantly less capacity to have a equal relationship with a human being then before and what's more is put in a what has to pass for one with Dick's former friend Roy and put in a team under a bitter enemy of Dick to boot. The second most important woman in Dick's life after Starfire, Donna had to pay a steeper price yet, she has been deleted from continuity altogether. Additionally, Wally has followed Donna into nonexistence, Cyborg has been confimed to have been in an uninterrupted membership in the Justice League the entire time and Beast Boy has been similiarly repurposed for a different comic meaning that any chance of a Titan reunion or a Nightwing featuring title to exploit the success of the Teen Titans and Young Justice cartoon has been extinquished. And with Haly's circus now bolted down in Gotham Nightwing has become a completely dedicated Gotham character now.

Course Babs is so unapproachable a character that this hardly would have been enough, plus with everyone deaged as off the reboot there maybe other prospects in Nightwing's life. Worry not, Barbara's biggest threat in Gotham Helena Bertinelli has been revealed to have died five years ago having never had the chance to become Huntress, Stephanie and Cassandra have been ejected from continuity as well. Even Supergirl and Powergirl had to pay the price for having established a friendly rapport with Dickbats while being members of the fairer sex. Neither have ever met Dick as of the reboot and powergirl is charted off the different dimension.

So rest assured, Dick is being firmly railroaded into a relationship with Barbara and any remote obstacle that could appear will likely follow the fate of it's predeccesors. No, you know what, I'm still holding out for Kory. I don't even care.

#146 Posted by ComicKing7 (124 posts) - - Show Bio
@leokearon: agreed
#148 Edited by chalant123 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope not because I want him and zatanna to

#149 Edited by chalant123 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Hope not i really want him and zatanna to date

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