Nightwing Issue 0

#1 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

Was on Twitter earlier and saw someone had asked Kyle Higgins about what would be covered in Issue 0 of Nightwing. Higgins said that the issue would cover Dick's shift from being a circus kid to becoming Robin and would not touch on his transition from Robin to Nightwing. Slightly disappointing news really, given that the previous issues in the series have chronicled his transition from circus kid to Robin well enough for even new readers to understand.

However, I did ask Higgins if he would cover the transition from Robin to Nightwing in future issues. His response was (and I quote) "I really want to".

Am I the only one who finds it a little strange how they're planning to cover the origins of Grayson becoming a member of the Bat-family without touching on how he became Nightwing? Particularly given that the issue will be published under the Nightwing name.

#2 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude that is too funny, bro. I am @tothemat. I asked the circus kid question.

#3 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

It don't mind this being Higgins take on Robin's origin always time to do a new 52 Nightwing origin later. I hope this means he's going to take his time and tell a good story no rushing it. I love Kyle Higgins books so I trust it will be great.

#4 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim Drake was never Robin.

Dick Grayson became an orphan at 16

...Sigh...

#5 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

Grayson @ 16 was DC's call as for Drake I dont know what the hells going on there.

#6 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson: I know it was DC's call, that doesn't mean I have to like it. He could easily have gone under Batman before the 5 Year thing.

#7 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

Why couldn't they have just explained all these things from the beginning? Or made a decent plan from the start?

#8 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@richardjohngrayson: I know it was DC's call, that doesn't mean I have to like it. He could easily have gone under Batman before the 5 Year thing.

No bro. I didn't mean it was a good call I just meant I think Drake was a Scott Lobdell which stinks on ice.

#9 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11626 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

Tim Drake was never Robin.

Dick Grayson became an orphan at 16

...Sigh...

Lost faith in everything batman from that one post.

#10 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

Why couldn't they have just explained all these things from the beginning? Or made a decent plan from the start?

I've recently just awoken and realized its been a couple of lies, which would explain why. But I don't want to promote that school of thought.

@richardjohngrayson said:

@ReVamp said:

@richardjohngrayson: I know it was DC's call, that doesn't mean I have to like it. He could easily have gone under Batman before the 5 Year thing.

No bro. I didn't mean it was a good call I just meant I think Drake was a Scott Lobdell which stinks on ice.

I think Lobdell didn't decide to make him just Red Robin, but he was the one who decided to make him an olympic athlete.

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

@ReVamp said:

Tim Drake was never Robin.

Dick Grayson became an orphan at 16

...Sigh...

Lost faith in everything batman from that one post.

Sorry to bring you down with me, Broski.

#11 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

Why couldn't they have just explained all these things from the beginning? Or made a decent plan from the start?

I've recently just awoken and realized its been a couple of lies, which would explain why. But I don't want to promote that school of thought.

@richardjohngrayson said:

@ReVamp said:

@richardjohngrayson: I know it was DC's call, that doesn't mean I have to like it. He could easily have gone under Batman before the 5 Year thing.

No bro. I didn't mean it was a good call I just meant I think Drake was a Scott Lobdell which stinks on ice.

I think Lobdell didn't decide to make him just Red Robin, but he was the one who decided to make him an olympic athlete.

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

@ReVamp said:

Tim Drake was never Robin.

Dick Grayson became an orphan at 16

...Sigh...

Lost faith in everything batman from that one post.

Sorry to bring you down with me, Broski.

olympic athlete? I don't read TT please explain if you don't mind.

#12 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson said:

olympic athlete? I don't read TT please explain if you don't mind.

Well, its bee announced that for the TT issue 0, Tim's going to get a "new" origin. ot much is really known about it (at least that I've heard), but he's going to be an olympic athlete and I think an expert computer hacker. A little hazy on the last part, so it might be slightly messed up.

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp: The thing about the DC New 52 continuity is that:

That's it in a single hyperbole. I mean, there is a continuity in the Batman and GL universes, its just that it being altered where they said they wouldn't...

#14 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Yeah, Green Lantern is it, really. Batman's is being hurt as we can see, but neither of them make any sense in the New 52 continuity. It's just a bunch of ideas thrown together that really don't work out in the end.

#15 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp: Yeah, Green Lantern is it, really. Batman's is being hurt as we can see, but neither of them make any sense in the New 52 continuity. It's just a bunch of ideas thrown together that really don't work out in the end.

And its really kinda sad...

#16 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@richardjohngrayson said:

olympic athlete? I don't read TT please explain if you don't mind.

Well, its bee announced that for the TT issue 0, Tim's going to get a "new" origin. ot much is really known about it (at least that I've heard), but he's going to be an olympic athlete and I think an expert computer hacker. A little hazy on the last part, so it might be slightly messed up.

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp: The thing about the DC New 52 continuity is that:

That's it in a single hyperbole. I mean, there is a continuity in the Batman and GL universes, its just that it being altered where they said they wouldn't...

Jeez I'm glad I am Grayson fan and not a Drake fan this sucks. Weird thing is he is doing ok by Jason Todd so far.

#17 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp: Yeah, Green Lantern is it, really. Batman's is being hurt as we can see, but neither of them make any sense in the New 52 continuity. It's just a bunch of ideas thrown together that really don't work out in the end.

And its really kinda sad...

Very sad.

I could retype all this stuff in a way that makes it better for this thread, but here's my big problems. Copy and pasted from a Teen Titans thread.

Reboots are the easy way out of a problem, but they tried to please old fans too and keep the history of the Green Lanterns and the Bat-family in tact (sorta). Problem is they don't fit in with the new parameters establish. Especially Nightwing, Arsenal (is he Red Arrow right now? I don't read the Outlaws), and Starfire. I guess Wally, Tempest, and Donna Troy never existed at all.

I get that they wanted to avoid having to retell all the stories that lead to them where they are now, but they should have looked at these problems right away. These are huge continuity issues and could have easily been handled. They could have released some one-shots or something telling what happened, or just cleared it up within the ongoings.

Or they could have done Titans with the older characters and Young Justice with the younger ones, like I say all the time. Both of these books would have sold and they had books they knew were going to fail.

And even besides all these continuity issues, the new Teen Titans run is horrible. I can't stand it. It is just so bad.

#18 Posted by haydenclaireheroes (9071 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe they will try to show the tranistion of Robin to Nightwing in another story arc. That would be cool

#19 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@richardjohngrayson said:

@ReVamp said:

@richardjohngrayson: I know it was DC's call, that doesn't mean I have to like it. He could easily have gone under Batman before the 5 Year thing.

No bro. I didn't mean it was a good call I just meant I think Drake was a Scott Lobdell which stinks on ice.

I think Lobdell didn't decide to make him just Red Robin, but he was the one who decided to make him an olympic athlete.

Which was a stupid decision

#20 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson: I'm going to be honest, I really like what Lobdell is doing. Out of his three books, Titans is the only one that he's not doing right by, quite sincerely.

@TheAnnihilator: He's Arsenal. I'm going to be pissed if they retcon Wolfman's Titans. Real pissed.

#21 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

Which was a stupid decision

Indeed it was and it pisses me off as well, BUT him being solely Red Robin is on a completely different level.

#22 Posted by TheAnnihilator (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: As far as I can tell his run never happened. They made the Teen Titans like bad 90's X-Men. Ravagers makes that more evident.

I don't hate Lobdell, Superboy is decent, but I really dislike what he's done on Titans.

#23 Posted by hunter5024 (128 posts) - - Show Bio

I think maybe he plans to cover a Robin to Nightwing transition in more depth later and so he's choosing not to go over it in this 1 issue.

#24 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@BlackArmor said:

Which was a stupid decision

Indeed it was and it pisses me off as well, BUT him being solely Red Robin is on a completely different level.

I refuse to even accept the not being Robin thing as cannon, it's all just some weird fervor dream Lobdell had after eating some bad sushi or something and when he wakes up everything will be normal again.....it has to be

#25 Edited by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Vamp...I believe Wolfman's run is already said to be retconed.

at the Young Justice panel from SDCC Lobdell said:

If Red Robin just started the Teen Titans, how is the flashback with Nightwing explained? "It doesn't show the Teen Titans, it shows people who used to be on Teen Titans hanging out together. There was no reference to Teen Titans. My feeling is that in the DC New 52, yes, these characters have crossed paths before, but there was no previous version of the Teen Titans. That group you saw in flashback was there, but they were not 'Teen Titans.'" Lobdell says that originally there was going to be more history with the Teen Titans, but plans changed along the way, and might change again.

#26 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAnnihilator said:

@ReVamp: As far as I can tell his run never happened. They made the Teen Titans like bad 90's X-Men. Ravagers makes that more evident.

@richardjohngrayson said:

@ReVamp: Vamp...I believe Wolfman's run is already said to be retconed.

at the Young Justice panel from SDCC

If Red Robin just started the Teen Titans, how is the flashback with Nightwing explained? "It doesn't show the Teen Titans, it shows people who used to be on Teen Titans hanging out together. There was no reference to Teen Titans. My feeling is that in the DC New 52, yes, these characters have crossed paths before, but there was no previous version of the Teen Titans. That group you saw in flashback was there, but they were not 'Teen Titans.'" Lobdell says that originally there was going to be more history with the Teen Titans, but plans changed along the way, and might change again.

Yeah. But to me, I don't care what they were called. I want the history. They ca be retconned to be called the Outsiders for all I care. And yes, I realize its porbably not going to happen, but I have hope okay?! Lol.

I don't hate Lobdell, Superboy is decent, but I really dislike what he's done on Titans.

I think his Titans is meh and Superboy is good.

@BlackArmor said:

@ReVamp said:

@BlackArmor said:

Which was a stupid decision

Indeed it was and it pisses me off as well, BUT him being solely Red Robin is on a completely different level.

I refuse to even accept the not being Robin thing as cannon, it's all just some weird fervor dream Lobdell had after eating some bad sushi or something and when he wakes up everything will be normal again.....it has to be

I'm with you, give me some of that rotten sushi too.

#27 Posted by SmoothJammin (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

This is all one big clusterf*ck. As a fan I'd be pleased to see Nightwing's origins in zero issue, just not if it means more editorial garbage crammed into one comic. If Kyle is going to cover it thoroughly it's something worth giving him time to tell. I'm willing to wait, too many things are happening too fast.. maybe it's okay if we don't have all the answers from the get.

#28 Posted by Z3RO180 (6560 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp:im sure tim drake was robin

#29 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33483 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is everyone moaning about Drake? I was under the impression he was still Batmans sidekick but he was just never called Robin

#30 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous him not being Robin is a very big deal. It changes a lot of key Batman storys. Also he was the Robin most of us grew up with. I'm a hardcore Grayson fan and this still bums me out.

#31 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

I wanted to see Robin to Nightwing and circus boy to robin

#32 Posted by Romulus9000 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

Tim Drake was never Robin.

Dick Grayson became an orphan at 16

...Sigh...

Hahahaha, when was the last time DC did EVERYTHING right, eh?

Also i can not stand what they are doing to Roy.

FINALLY he became red arrow and then they tore it all to pieces. I haven't read red hood since issue 6.

#33 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson said:

Dude that is too funny, bro. I am @tothemat. I asked the circus kid question.

Really?

Thats not the first time something like this has happened to me. I got retweeted by a football (soccer) commentator and a guy I know on another forum then posted about said comment without realising it was me.

(P.S. You are now being followed by me).

(P.P.S, haven't been able to post for a couple of days due to flood control, hence the late response)

#34 Edited by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

lol small world, dude. I am following you as well.

#35 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

Tim Drake was never Robin.

WHAT.

#36 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate to say it, but the teen titans/robins mess is the most inconsistent mess of post-flashpoint continuity. If they were going to crap on the middle Robins, they shoulda just cut them and only had Dick and Damian.

#37 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@ReVamp said:

Tim Drake was never Robin.

WHAT.

Apparently he never called himself Robin. He started with calling himself "Red Robin", which is dim-witted, but everything we've seen says that he still "counts" as a Robin to Bruce and the other Robins.

#38 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg I agree. I wouldn't want them to cut Tim but sometimes I think it should of just been a full reboot and had Dick be Robin. Trying to have their cake and eat it to has made a big mess.

#39 Posted by SmoothJammin (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

If Tim wasn't Robin then how does the photo of Batman and himself exist?? Or in Batman issue 1 stating his former status as Robin~

#40 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1653 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

If Tim wasn't Robin then how does the photo of Batman and himself exist?? Or in Batman issue 1 stating his former status as Robin~

You seen any of Lobdell's explanations for these yet? LOL they're a real trip.

http://www.comicvine.com/news/interview-scott-lobdell-on-superboy-jason-todd-and-tim-drake-not-being-robin/145050/

I appreciate them not wanting to have to go through all the stories again, but DC needs to admit they've screwed up with the Bat Family. Putting Tim aside, Bruce and Dick are sloppy as hell. There's no possible way all of their past adventures still happened. No way on God's green Earth. The simple and intelligent thing to do was for them to release some one shots all across the board (Specifically in terms of the Bat and Arrow family) and explain what adventures were still canon. They had more than enough time to plan all of this out before and during Flashpoint. Instead, they did nothing of the kind and have apparently just decided to decide as they go, and then make contradictory statements later.

#41 Posted by Funrush (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm assuming the fact that it's only going through the Robin origin is because there's not enough room to fit in the whole Nightwing stuff, and that they can't do more than one zero issue. Besides, if they do do a Nightwing origin thing, I don't think 20 pages would be enough development for the tension that builds between Dick and Batman and... wait... no New Teen Titans in the N52. :`( I would prefer a Nightwing origin story to be 2-4 issues, starting with Dick and Bruce's first fight that led up to the split and ending with Dick wearing the Nightwing costume.

#42 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1653 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funrush said:

I'm assuming the fact that it's only going through the Robin origin is because there's not enough room to fit in the whole Nightwing stuff, and that they can't do more than one zero issue. Besides, if they do do a Nightwing origin thing, I don't think 20 pages would be enough development for the tension that builds between Dick and Batman and... wait... no New Teen Titans in the N52. :`( I would prefer a Nightwing origin story to be 2-4 issues, starting with Dick and Bruce's first fight that led up to the split and ending with Dick wearing the Nightwing costume.

With the whole New 52 and the lack of the Teen Titans (Specifically the New Teen Titans) i've been wondering if there was any tension or fight at all that led to Dick leaving. Or if Bruce still fired him. They might've reverted to something similar to the Pre-Crisis era where Dick chose to pass the Robin mantle onto Jason and Bruce and Dick parted on good terms.

#43 Posted by richardjohngrayson (429 posts) - - Show Bio

With such a condensed timeline and no Teen Titans I tend to think Dick may've just passed the torch because he out grew the red and green. Just my two cents.

#44 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson said:

With such a condensed timeline and no Teen Titans I tend to think Dick may've just passed the torch because he out grew the red and green. Just my two cents.

I dunno, there still seems to be a bit of tension between Dick and Bruce which makes me think there is more to it than Dick simply passing on the torch to Jason. The condensed timeline once again rears its ugly head in scenarios such as this. It means we'll probably have to settle for some bodged together explanation (though I trust Higgins to do a good job of it) of why Dick became Nightwing which doesn't really have any worthwhile impact in the long run. I personally always liked the idea of there being tension between Bruce and Dick, it made things interesting because although Bruce knew Dick was his greatest soldier he would rarely ever call upon him.

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