My predictions for Nightwing in Forever Evil

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#151 Edited by richardjohngrayson (414 posts) - - Show Bio

If that rumor is true.........My thoughts are:

Taking him out of a solo series and putting him in a F***ING team book does absolutely NOTHING to help Dick Grayson as a character. He goes from the star of HIS OWN BOOK to a member of an ensemble cast of characters. Also it's hard enough explaining that Dick was the first Robin, then Nightwing, then Batman, then Nightwing again and now something else. I'm so fed up with this crap. And calling someone else Nightwing is utter horse $**T! Watch how fast the sales on the Nightwing book plummet if Dick Grayson isn't Nightwing.

#152 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^^This is why casuals don't know who Nightwing is. Fkin Henry Pym is a better guess than Dick Grayson. All roads lead back to the shadow of the bat............

#153 Posted by youknowwhattodo (906 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^^This is why casuals don't know who Nightwing is. Fkin Henry Pym is a better guess than Dick Grayson. All roads lead back to the shadow of the bat............

To be fair though, people are starting to know about him thanks to Young Justice, and DC/WB are trademarking Nightwing, so they are planning to do expose him more to the casual audience. Now before you say "how can they do that when he's no longer NW in the comics", I would respond by saying that Peter Parker is dead and we still have Spider-Man films with him in it. There's nothing to say that in the future he can't become Nightwing again.

With regards to "shadow of the bat", I hope they don't do that, it doesn't look it though. It looks like he's going to be leading a new team come March and there will be an ultimate team up later on (possible that his team and Red Hood's team meet and Teen Titans), so I don't think he's going to be a shadow of Batman. On another note, I remember watching an old DC-All Access video on youtube and on a white-board, the names of Donna Troy and Wally West were written there, long stretch but maybe those two are going to be part of Dick's new team?

If it sounds like I'm being overly optimistic, I might be. I will say though, my concern is that the new alter-ego he chooses is not as interesting as Nightwing and the team that he leads is lame, combined with bad writing could really set his character back.

#154 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

"Even if I do bring him home alive....Richard Grayson's life's been destroyed."

Pretty much, yeah.

#155 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

If that rumor is true.........My thoughts are:

Taking him out of a solo series and putting him in a F***ING team book does absolutely NOTHING to help Dick Grayson as a character. He goes from the star of HIS OWN BOOK to a member of an ensemble cast of characters. Also it's hard enough explaining that Dick was the first Robin, then Nightwing, then Batman, then Nightwing again and now something else. I'm so fed up with this crap. And calling someone else Nightwing is utter horse $**T! Watch how fast the sales on the Nightwing book plummet if Dick Grayson isn't Nightwing.

To be honest, it's not a great book as it stands. B-list at the very best. I'd rather have him as the star of a team book produced by an A-list creative team.

#156 Edited by richardjohngrayson (414 posts) - - Show Bio

It isn't a strong book because poor Kyle Higgins has been weighed down by terrible editorial mandate and constant crossovers. The book had great potential but was never allowed to be the best it could be. I will follow Dick Grayson on whatever path he is put on but I go into it knowing DC doesn't care for the character or his fans.

#157 Posted by SuperJedi17 (299 posts) - - Show Bio
#158 Posted by Transformers1024 (1732 posts) - - Show Bio

So is Dick Grayson still going to be Nightwing?

#159 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't completely buy into the whole "Team Book" upcoming thing with "Outlaw Justice" and the "New Nightwing" just yet. This stuff has been around for a little bit and only got told more recently due to Forever Evil. The "New" Nightwing might not really be the case. Don't forget, she's said to be a "new" character. She might look like Nightwing, but DC tends to pull our legs a lot. Remember how we thought NW was going to be Batman in Forever Evil? And it was plain old Bruce? Yeah. DC tends to do that. Plus, you honestly think they'll let those rumors come true? It's obvious they don't wanna spoil what happens after Forever Evil just yet. Kyle Higgins recently said Geoff Johns had plans for Nightwing and discussed them with Kyle. Those rumors aren't look to be true. Don't buy into them just yet. Maybe Dick will get a new Identity. Maybe he won't. Who knows? We got 2-3 more months to go.

@richardjohngrayson said:

It isn't a strong book because poor Kyle Higgins has been weighed down by terrible editorial mandate and constant crossovers. The book had great potential but was never allowed to be the best it could be. I will follow Dick Grayson on whatever path he is put on but I go into it knowing DC doesn't care for the character or his fans.

That's true. Kyle Higgin had planned certain things. Like a Arc of him being a "Prince of Gotham". He also planned having Deathstroke and Nightwing crossover. Both of them didn't happen. Now his direction with Nightwing in Chicago, which was a good idea and had potential of being a Newer and more improved version of Bludhaven has now been tossed out of the window thanks to Forever Evil. Really, Kyle only wrote the Tomorrow People Arc and The Chicago Arc all to himself. Those 2 Arcs are the only Arcs he's ever done that is all him. Those Arcs to me are good(The Tomorrow People was fine and the Chicago Arc was fun, as he finally did something that mattered. Saving a city was a cool change to doing absolutely nothing but being support). It's really sad because in all, he is a fine writer. For him to try and write Nightwing the best of his ability, despite all the crossovers, it wasn't too bad. It was only disappointing he didn't get to do what he wanted. He did make Nightwing surprisingly outsell some notable books and showed people do care for Nightwing.

I wouldn't say DC hates or doesn't care for Nightwing when I sit down and give it some thought. Really, DC has a totally different perception of him then fans do. They certainly care enough to sit and try to make sure he doesn't outshine Batman in anyway possible. You basically have 3 types of writers in DC.

You have writers who love him and want to make him the best he can be! These people include Mark Wolfman, Chuck Dixon, Peter Tomasi, and Kyle Higgins. These people seem to love to write for Nightwing and have given him the best writing for the character. These people find some way to define Nightwing. Even Kyle Higgins, despite his problems with writing Nightwing, has graced us with keeping his personality intact from the reboot and tries to get some good stories.

Then you have Writers like Geoff Johns and Morrison. They're the very notable writers in DC. You hear their names all the time or for some, you hear them every once in a while. They respect Nightwing and it's cool to know higher up writers at least will respect him. However, these writers are also willing to put him through angst or put him as Batman Support. They do not always get that Nightwing's story is based off of getting out of being merely Batman Support. They do sometimes give him stories of his own. But then sometimes slap him back into Batman Support or being canon fodder in some fashion.

Then you have writers who don't seem to care or know what kind of character Nightwing is! I won't put names, but you can take your best guess. These writers normally have not written for Nightwing, but, has characterized him negatively. These writers are basically the reason why Nightwing tends to be inconsistent or look bad. They tend to use him as leverage for other characters. They tend to use thing he got for him and give it to others. They also tend to think the wrong things about him. Relationships for examples. A lot of Comic book character have these writers at one point. Normally, you can just not think about it and that be it. The problem is these writers tend to be well known to some extent and hurt the character in ways it stays forever stamped on him. It's because of these writers we're here complaining in the first place.

@richardjohngrayson said:

If that rumor is true.........My thoughts are:

Taking him out of a solo series and putting him in a F***ING team book does absolutely NOTHING to help Dick Grayson as a character. He goes from the star of HIS OWN BOOK to a member of an ensemble cast of characters. Also it's hard enough explaining that Dick was the first Robin, then Nightwing, then Batman, then Nightwing again and now something else. I'm so fed up with this crap. And calling someone else Nightwing is utter horse $**T! Watch how fast the sales on the Nightwing book plummet if Dick Grayson isn't Nightwing.

To be honest, it's not a great book as it stands. B-list at the very best. I'd rather have him as the star of a team book produced by an A-list creative team.

You have a point there. It's about B-List. Mind you, though, this book has been able to outsell even iconic heroes who have their own solo series like Flash and Wonder Woman. Overall, the book isn't too bad. I like the Court of Owls stuff and Chicago. It's DOTF The Paragon Arc, and the end of of the Tie-in in with the Owls that made it feel generic to me. Those Arcs reminded me that he's not allowed to do anything cool. Simply put, the stories seen in his book are original and don't deprive from something from the past, BUT, with what the character has lost in terms of history and how limited he is, moderately B-List doesn't do wonders whatsoever overall. Though he's the top selling Bat-related book. He's also consistenly made the Top 50-60 comics book sold monthly.

I would love for a A-list creative team, but those writers tend to be the ones who make him canon fodder. It's why people are skeptical about him being in team books. DC has shown more interest in positively characterizing Jason Todd then Nightwing recently. Character development is shared in team books, too. However, the bigger plays DC likes benefit from it. If I put Batman in a Team with.....Plastic Man and Supergirl, You know that team will be another Bat-related book with Batman as a star. Seeing as they rid of Nightwing history, do you really think they'll consider making him a MVP for once? Who knows? Problem is DG fans are tired of uncertainty in direction. He been north, south, east, west, and 360 degrees. And he /STILL/ doesn't have a reoccuring archnemisis like EVERY SUPERHERO /NEEDS/ that doens't go in other's book often and more. And honestly, it's not that hard to give him direction. They just can't stick with it cause it risks making Batman look not as interesting. DC doesn't want him to be a more interesting character or go beyond Batman Support.

#160 Posted by DEGRAAF (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

"Even if I do bring him home alive....Richard Grayson's life's been destroyed."

Pretty much, yeah.

I love this. Im glad he feels so guilty and so much emotion for Dick.

#161 Edited by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

A lingering thought as I make way through all these recent developments. As one chapter of Dick's life closes and a much different one emerges, how improbable is it to believe his upcoming identity might have something to do with his family's roots in the Court of Owls? Consider this, if the rumors are true and Tynion is to be heading this new direction wouldn't it make sense(for DC atleast) to stick the one writer who's been handling all of the Talon stuff as well covering Night of the Owl's backups for Scott Snyder on a title reflecting all these changes? Talon itself is getting cancelled in March and there is talks of replacing Nightwing with another book. Dick Grayson's character has undergone many transformations throughout the years, as an inquiring follower of the character it is hard for me not to disregard this possibility.

Also, has anyone here read detective comics 27..? It's supposed to be a celebration of Batman's debut in Tec, only I'm not in a big hurry to spend 8 bucks on a title I don't regularly follow. What I do find intriguing is the lack of Nightwing on the variant cover which makes sense considering Dick's either in Chicago or held hostage by the crime syndicate.. We get these ragtag bunch of misfits instead.

Who is Owlman?

#162 Posted by Dzeytoun (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, has anyone here read detective comics 27..? It's supposed to be a celebration of Batman's debut in Tec, only I'm not in a big hurry to spend 8 bucks on a title I don't regularly follow. What I do find intriguing is the lack of Nightwing on the variant cover which makes sense considering Dick's either in Chicago or held hostage by the crime syndicate.. We get these ragtag bunch of misfits instead.

Who is Owlman?

Yes, I have read Detective 27. It is a series of separate stories dealing with various aspects of Batman's career and legacy. Dick appears in two of them. He appears as Nightwing in a fantasy of Bruce Wayne's 75th birthday (but Damian appears in that one as well, so it's clearly AU) and in a short entry where the Phantom Stranger shows Bruce what the world would have been like had his parents not been murdered. In that one he is on death row for the murder of Zucco. Dick/Nightwing does not appear in Gothtopia, which is the only ongoing entry. But most of Batman's associates don't appear in that, and Gothtopia appears to be out-of-continuity in any case.

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