My predictions for Nightwing in Forever Evil

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#1 Posted by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

1. There will be two Dick Graysons (one blue from earth 3 the other one in red) (also explaining the promo image)

2. Dick Grayson will be either connected to the prisoner (from JL 23) or will be the prisoner (escaping in the initial struggle showed at the end of JL)

3. Earth 3 Grayson will have started as villain in his home world and became hero (remember this is a reverse world where all heroes are villains)

4. Earth 3 Grayson had a relationship with Superwoman and then turned hero (explaining why Superwoman hates Dick Grayson, think Injustice how everyone still hated Luthor even though he was good)

5. The Crime Syndicate will have a counterpart (something like the Legion of Justice) that has waged war all over earth 3 leaving it nearly destroyed

6. The two Graysons will work together uniting villains and heroes to prevent the Crime Syndicate taking over and get the JLs back

7. Dick Grayson (earth 3) will die giving his life to finally defeat the crime syndicate and restoring peace to both Earths (Dido creams in his pants)

8. Dick Grayson (ours) will finally get a team of his own after the conclusion

#2 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1556 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd read it.

#3 Posted by AColombia (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb: we already know he'll be forced to tell the world his identity.

#4 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb: we already know he'll be forced to tell the world his identity.

That part is pure speculation.

#5 Posted by comicbookfan93 (393 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure that earth-3 is destroyed because of the Darkseid attack

#6 Edited by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicbookfan93:

where did u get that, i believe where u are confused is the part in JL 23 that mentions Darkseid. it never said Darkseid invaided World 3 it says when he invaded World 1 it weakened the barrier between universes (darkseid lives in another dimension not another planet) there is nothing that states Darkseid has ever been to earth 3. his invasion simply allowed the crime syndicate to move into this dimension

@acolombia

there is nothing from DC that states that, what ur referring to is a prediction by Bleeding Cool. it is not official

#7 Posted by comicbookfan93 (393 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb: I read somewhere that Darkseid's invasion happended at the same time across earth-1 and 2 and I believe 3 as well but that may just be me getting confused as you say

#8 Edited by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicbookfan93:

I know he invaded one and two but i dont know about 3. as far as i know world three wasn't revealed until justice league 23 so I dont think it has much of a back story. However even if Darkseid did invade it does not mean he destroyed the planet. Earth 1 wasnt destroyed, Earth 2 got the crap kicked out of it but still wasnt destroyed. So there is no way to know definitively what or if Darkseid did anything to Earth 3. Honestly Earth 3 might have faired the best because they must be thousands of years more advanced than us. we know this because they were able to facilitate interdimensional travel when Earth 1 was still very primitive. ( we know this because Pandora's box was created before the Olympian Gods and the box opens dimensions)

#9 Edited by Mickey_Angelo (25 posts) - - Show Bio

My personal theory is that Dick takes over the Batman mantle (hence why Batman is on the cover) during FE. If/when Superwoman forces him to reveal his identity he will either admit he is Nightwing rather than Batman, or if he does reveal his actual identity the Syndicate captive will take the fall for him (I agree he is Dick Grayson from Earth 3).

On a side note: with the Justice League missing, now would be a great time for DC to bring back Wally and Donna to help Dick

#10 Posted by vernierhawk001 (533 posts) - - Show Bio

.....I hate mulitverses...-___-

#11 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1556 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that happened, good job DC. Good job.

#12 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2294 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@ritchieb: @nathaniel_christopher: We know there are two Graysons now, both former partners of Batman. The Dick Grayson of Earth 3 will almost surely play a part in this now. His fate remains a mystery but the fact that Power Ring mentions Owlman was fond of him means his presence, whether alive or dead is going to be a game changer. I think Owlman will cut him loose and keep tabs on him...

#14 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that happened, good job DC. Good job.

Didio is probably super happy right now.

#15 Posted by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio

1. There will be two Dick Graysons (one blue from earth 3 the other one in red) (also explaining the promo image)

I don't believe so at this point.

2. Dick Grayson will be either connected to the prisoner (from JL 23) or will be the prisoner (escaping in the initial struggle showed at the end of JL)

I think it might be either Earth 3 Luthor or someone related to the new gods like Metron who created the many Pandora Boxes. It would explain the relation to the Mother Boxes.

#16 Edited by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy said:

@nathaniel_christopher said:

Well that happened, good job DC. Good job.

Didio is probably super happy right now.

You know. Him being umasked was somewhat ridiculous. Seriously. He's only been in Batman Inc. a couple of time and was in some team with Arsenal and Starfire. Other then that, he's in no team. So him having "many friends" just didn't seem to hold water for me. Not to mention he got caught cause he was taking Zsasz back to Arkham when he's went to Chicago for unknown reasons. Shadow of the Bat strikes again! The most ridiculous yet.

Can't get a break from being screwed.

#17 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

IL license eh? So the Nolanverse really solidified Gotham as a standin for Chicago, huh?

#18 Edited by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy said:

@nathaniel_christopher said:

Well that happened, good job DC. Good job.

Didio is probably super happy right now.

You know. Him being umasked was somewhat ridiculous. Seriously. He's only been in Batman Inc. a couple of time and was in some team with Arsenal and Starfire. Other then that, he's in no team. So him having "many friends" just didn't seem to hold water for me. Not to mention he got caught cause he was taking Zsasz back to Arkham when he's went to Chicago for unknown reasons. Shadow of the Bat strikes again! The most ridiculous yet.

Can't get a break from being screwed.

That gave me a good laugh. The whole "Grayson has many friends and many places he calls home" and Ultraman vowing to destroy everything/everyone he holds dear was total facepalm. Maybe If we're talking 09-10 Dick Grayson when the timing was ripe but present Nightwing is a virtual unknown. I bet new readers were as confused as Lex Luthor when his identity was revealed. If you didn't read the issue and just got spoiled then congratulations we just saved you from breaking news you would have been slammed with all week long, I mean come on we're talking Forever Evil here get with the program. Did you really think you could get away with skipping this event? While we're on the subject, the shadow of the bat is a thing, it's REAL and curses anyone ensnared within its grasp.

What disappoints me is just when we think Nightwing has moved on and is kicking ass in Chicago like Mr. Higgins has convinced us on many occasions, we get this for our troubles. Three steps backward again. I know I probably sound like a moany b1tch right now but this is a character I'm passionate about! I'm upset having to watch how Dick has lost everything he's worked for, his immediate family is broken, his little brother just DIED--HE'LL NEVER HUG DAMIAN AGAIN, THEY'LL NEVER GET A CHANCE TO PLAY SWORDWALKERS, EVER. His childhood friends betrayed him and guess what? The Shadow of the Bat swallowed them whole soon after. C.C Haly, a man who is everything you'd a expect a beardless Santa Claus to look and act like confessed to knowing Nightwing's secret and is killed over his involvement with the Court of Owls. Did he even love Grayson, as an uncle would his nephew, to begin with? The circus troupe(Haly's) in question have forsaken Dick Grayson the one man looking out for their best interests and disbanded. Of course Batman gets off scot-free. Expect him to escape this event with his credibility intact and an iron clad resolve at the detriment of his poor ex-sidekick.

#19 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow said:

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy said:

@nathaniel_christopher said:

Well that happened, good job DC. Good job.

Didio is probably super happy right now.

You know. Him being umasked was somewhat ridiculous. Seriously. He's only been in Batman Inc. a couple of time and was in some team with Arsenal and Starfire. Other then that, he's in no team. So him having "many friends" just didn't seem to hold water for me. Not to mention he got caught cause he was taking Zsasz back to Arkham when he's went to Chicago for unknown reasons. Shadow of the Bat strikes again! The most ridiculous yet.

Can't get a break from being screwed.

That gave me a good laugh. The whole "Grayson has many friends and many places he calls home" and Ultraman vowing to destroy everything/everyone he holds dear was total facepalm. Maybe If we're talking 09-10 Dick Grayson when the timing was ripe but present Nightwing is a virtual unknown. I bet new readers were as confused as Lex Luthor when his identity was revealed. If you didn't read the issue and just got spoiled then congratulations we just saved you from breaking news you would have been slammed with all week long, I mean come on we're talking Forever Evil here get with the program. Did you really think you could get away with skipping this event? While we're on the subject, the shadow of the bat is a thing, it's REAL and curses anyone ensnared within its grasp.

What disappoints me is just when we think Nightwing has moved on and is kicking ass in Chicago like Mr. Higgins has convinced us on many occasions, we get this for our troubles. Three steps backward again. I know I probably sound like a moany b1tch right now but this is a character I'm passionate about! I'm upset having to watch how Dick has lost everything he's worked for, his immediate family is broken, his little brother just DIED--HE'LL NEVER HUG DAMIAN AGAIN, THEY'LL NEVER GET A CHANCE TO PLAY SWORDWALKERS, EVER. His childhood friends betrayed him and guess what? The Shadow of the Bat swallowed them whole soon after. C.C Haly, a man who is everything you'd a expect a beardless Santa Claus to look and act like confessed to knowing Nightwing's secret and is killed over his involvement with the Court of Owls. Did he even love Grayson, as an uncle would his nephew, to begin with? The circus troupe(Haly's) in question have forsaken Dick Grayson the one man looking out for their best interests and disbanded. Of course Batman gets off scot-free. Expect him to escape this event with his credibility intact and an iron clad resolve at the detriment of his poor ex-sidekick.

Oh I agree. Him having "Many friends" almost made me laugh. He's hasn't been leader of anything and his "friends" only consist of Batman, Batgirl,Sonia, Michael and Joey. All his "Friends" have been rectonned or replaced. And some even died. I swear, there was no significance in using him if much of his past was erased. Heck, even the villains were like "OMG They got Nightwing", even though they joke about him being a 2nd rate Batman. NOW all of a sudden, he's a big deal. They practically picked a random person with his erased and screwed history. The way he got captured irked me. No fight whatsoever. Just got a plain beating from Owlman and Superwoman. And then Ultraman wanted to kill all of his loved ones. I was like "How does he become a big deal to where evil junkee superman wants to destroy all he loves?" He literally became more important overnight.

Of course it's real! He takes out Zsasz and goes to put him in Arkham, only to get a A** beating and then unmasked in under 10 pages? If Batman was in place of Nightwing, this fight would of gone in so many different directions. And another thing, it's just Nightwing. Everyone else in the Batfamily doesn't get it. They're all on their own little worlds. And Nightwing keeps getting pulled back to Batmans. and when he does...BAM! Bad things happen to him.

Batman gets off of this scotch-free cause he's Batman. A flagship hero. They have to make him untouchable. Meanwhile, Nightwing is already known for being the one who gets beat, despite his good showings and is assumed to be at a higher level then most authors display.

#20 Edited by richardjohngrayson (414 posts) - - Show Bio

What does this mean for Dick Grayson I wonder? Does he go on fighting crime as Dick Grayson like in Batman Beyond? Does he stay as Nightwing with his identity known like Tony Stark does as Iron Man?

#21 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1556 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like my problem with this is it seems to be coming at such an awful time, and happening to a character who's specifically lost so much and had so much happen to him since the Reboot. It also seems to go directly against what's being done in the actual Nightwing series, where he's supposed to be in Chicago now, doing his own thing, making his own way, having his own city and Rogue's Gallery again. Yet just the other day we saw that Prankster's going to be involved in Arkham War, a Batman event. Now, Dick's life is apparently being upturned again by Forever Evil, which is probably a Justice League event more than anything. I don't have a problem with him being involved now, i'm glad he's getting the exposure, but it again just seems like instead of adding anything to the character, it's tearing his life up once again, when that already happened in the last two Batman events!!! DC's not focusing enough time on developing the character in his individual world and letting him grow there. They keep throwing him all over the place, with again the last two Batman events being the worst offenders that i've ever seen.

Now then let's consider the logic of using Dick Grayson here. As others have said, his list of friends is pretty damn small at this point. Unlike Pre-Flashpoint, he's no longer the most trusted hero after Superman. Everyone doesn't seem to know him or look up to him (Unless this event's going to be changing that somehow or revealing something we haven't seen yet.) Then there's the fact his life's been upturned so much recently, not even taking into account the other damage done to the character due to the Reboot taking many of his traits/aspects and giving them to Jason or Tim. Really, why would you choose Nightwing as he currently is as the hero to be unmasked for this event? It really doesn't have that much impact, and seems to be banking on nothing more than him being one of Batman's many partners. It's really no more serious than if Red Hood had been here, or Red Robin, save they're both part of teams and actually have more visible "friends" than Dick does. Really, and I hate to say it, I think Bruce should be on that stage getting unmasked instead of Dick.

#22 Edited by havoc1201 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: it says Chicago if you zoom in so it's just from his solo not from nolan

#23 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin said:

@jayaaerow said:

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy said:

@nathaniel_christopher said:

Well that happened, good job DC. Good job.

Didio is probably super happy right now.

You know. Him being umasked was somewhat ridiculous. Seriously. He's only been in Batman Inc. a couple of time and was in some team with Arsenal and Starfire. Other then that, he's in no team. So him having "many friends" just didn't seem to hold water for me. Not to mention he got caught cause he was taking Zsasz back to Arkham when he's went to Chicago for unknown reasons. Shadow of the Bat strikes again! The most ridiculous yet.

Can't get a break from being screwed.

That gave me a good laugh. The whole "Grayson has many friends and many places he calls home" and Ultraman vowing to destroy everything/everyone he holds dear was total facepalm. Maybe If we're talking 09-10 Dick Grayson when the timing was ripe but present Nightwing is a virtual unknown. I bet new readers were as confused as Lex Luthor when his identity was revealed. If you didn't read the issue and just got spoiled then congratulations we just saved you from breaking news you would have been slammed with all week long, I mean come on we're talking Forever Evil here get with the program. Did you really think you could get away with skipping this event? While we're on the subject, the shadow of the bat is a thing, it's REAL and curses anyone ensnared within its grasp.

What disappoints me is just when we think Nightwing has moved on and is kicking ass in Chicago like Mr. Higgins has convinced us on many occasions, we get this for our troubles. Three steps backward again. I know I probably sound like a moany b1tch right now but this is a character I'm passionate about! I'm upset having to watch how Dick has lost everything he's worked for, his immediate family is broken, his little brother just DIED--HE'LL NEVER HUG DAMIAN AGAIN, THEY'LL NEVER GET A CHANCE TO PLAY SWORDWALKERS, EVER. His childhood friends betrayed him and guess what? The Shadow of the Bat swallowed them whole soon after. C.C Haly, a man who is everything you'd a expect a beardless Santa Claus to look and act like confessed to knowing Nightwing's secret and is killed over his involvement with the Court of Owls. Did he even love Grayson, as an uncle would his nephew, to begin with? The circus troupe(Haly's) in question have forsaken Dick Grayson the one man looking out for their best interests and disbanded. Of course Batman gets off scot-free. Expect him to escape this event with his credibility intact and an iron clad resolve at the detriment of his poor ex-sidekick.

Oh I agree. Him having "Many friends" almost made me laugh. He's hasn't been leader of anything and his "friends" only consist of Batman, Batgirl,Sonia, Michael and Joey. All his "Friends" have been rectonned or replaced. And some even died. I swear, there was no significance in using him if much of his past was erased. Heck, even the villains were like "OMG They got Nightwing", even though they joke about him being a 2nd rate Batman. NOW all of a sudden, he's a big deal. They practically picked a random person with his erased and screwed history. The way he got captured irked me. No fight whatsoever. Just got a plain beating from Owlman and Superwoman. And then Ultraman wanted to kill all of his loved ones. I was like "How does he become a big deal to where evil junkee superman wants to destroy all he loves?" He literally became more important overnight.

Of course it's real! He takes out Zsasz and goes to put him in Arkham, only to get a A** beating and then unmasked in under 10 pages? If Batman was in place of Nightwing, this fight would of gone in so many different directions. And another thing, it's just Nightwing. Everyone else in the Batfamily doesn't get it. They're all on their own little worlds. And Nightwing keeps getting pulled back to Batmans. and when he does...BAM! Bad things happen to him.

Batman gets off of this scotch-free cause he's Batman. A flagship hero. They have to make him untouchable. Meanwhile, Nightwing is already known for being the one who gets beat, despite his good showings and is assumed to be at a higher level then most authors display.

I've never seen anything like it. As far as friends go, Sonia is so borderline I can't tell whether she's more business associate than crush..I'd hardly call her a close confidante but this is Forever Evil we're talking so who knows. Michael and Joey we still understand very little about save for them being roomates of Dick. The villains reactions were priceless. I seem to recall Penquin regarding Nightwing as Batman lite in issue 13 of his ongoing but you're right, suddenly he's kind of a big deal. Practically every single villain in DC just witnessed(in person) the unmasking of one of comic's most prominent young heroes. I bet the Court of Owls still have a score to settle with Grayson. We also don't know if their were other heroes NW collaborated with before the New 52 kicked off.

Maybe this is a good thing. You have to consider that after this event wraps up, Nightwing will want to distance himself as far away from the batfamily as possible. What the hell was Zsasz doing in Chicago anyhow, seriously? That sequence of events felt a little forced, Owlman sucker punching him was so bull too. You'd think with all his world class training Nightwing might of heard someone creeping up on him and put up a better fight. The only thing I ask from DC.. please don't make this another showcase gallery for Batman. We know the Justice League will be a determining factor upon their return. In the meantime, use this rare opportunity to boost your other talents. Teen Titans, Shazam(?), RHATO, Nightwing.. these guys are carrying the torch for the good guys. Do them proper justice!

#24 Posted by Jake Fury (18116 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually thought it make Dick look important. Outside of the Justice League, the CSA picked the next greatest hero in line to make an example of.

Just my 2 cents.

#25 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@jake_fury: Good point. My only thing is, if you're going to follow through with something as grandscale as changing a legacy character's status quo, you better give it the respect it deserves. This will either make or break Nightwing imo. His book will never be the same.

#26 Edited by dicksihavestudied (35 posts) - - Show Bio

There is so much wrong with this, as you guys have already said. But I did appreciate, as @jake_fury, noted that Dick suddenly became incredibly important. The way the Crime Syndicate talked about him, he was pre-reboot Nightwing. If only. If DC wants to revert back to pre-boot Nightwing, who has tons of friends and out-awesomes Batman, I am all for it. I won't even complain if they just revert without explanation - I'm that desperate.

Since Forever Evil #1 hinted at pre-boot Dick, I'm trying to stay positive. Let's be optimistic like Dick Grayson would!

#27 Posted by Jake Fury (18116 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: Thanks. Of course I am only commenting on how I perceived it from Forever Evil #1. I haven't read a lot of Nightwing's new 52 book.

#28 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@jake_fury: You're perspective is every bit as important. I hope every casual consumer who picks up the book shares your opinion on the matter, Nightwing IS the next greatest hero in line. It's the truth after all. My brain just won't compute the explicit motive behind why--where is the substance!? I keep asking myself. Knowing DC, they will fill in the gaps as the plot moves along.

But seriously dude. You need to hop on that Nightwing book Talking

There is so much wrong with this, as you guys have already said. But I did appreciate, as @jake_fury, noted that Dick suddenly became incredibly important. The way the Crime Syndicate talked about him, he was pre-reboot Nightwing. If only. If DC wants to revert back to pre-boot Nightwing, who has tons of friends and out-awesomes Batman, I am all for it. I won't even complain if they just revert without explanation - I'm that desperate.

Since Forever Evil #1 hinted at pre-boot Dick, I'm trying to stay positive. Let's be optimistic like Dick Grayson would!

I can't wipe this big stupid smile off my face lol

Hey stranger. :)

#29 Edited by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

@dicksihavestudied: Forever Evil #1 doesn't hint at Pre-Reboot Dick at all. It talked about Owlman's former apprentice. That's not Pre-Reboot Dick. I doubt that Nightwing will show up.

DC reverting back to Pre-Reboot Dick Grayson is not going to happen. They work their butts off making sure he cannot do much to look better then his mentor. That or Didio's hate for him shows. I can't honestly tell you exactly why cause I'm not them. Honestly, Never seen a company hate on a fan favorite character. Most companies wanna promote them. But they just can't let him get a break. DC Fans are already aware of their hate for him. I doubt they'll do any good for him.

I just about had it with being Optimistic. It seems trying to being positive gets us no where. Once this Forever Evil thing is over, what will happen to Nightwing? Part of his character is maintaining a secret identity. It's been like that for over 70+ years and now on a September Day, it's revealed to the world right after they rectonned most of his importance, wrecked his history and traits, and gave him little supporting cast and Rogue Gallery? 3 or 4 years ago, this was a fantasy. Now it's happening. It's very hard to smile about it when this changes his character forever. Fan might have said they wanted change, but, not this way. We wanted to gain actual importance, not just get it overnight just for the sake of plot where he gets butt kicked(He might get payback as Batman for this event) and try to make it a big deal. No, you have to take the time to let a character develop. Otherwise, you can't make a impact.

Many people I've seen liked everything else about Forever Evil except how they handle Nightwing. And it makes sense. At this point, people expect him to be written in a manner similar to Batman. People say his skills rival Batman and want to see that, not get his butt kicked for the 1000th time. And many people who like him in the least see him as his own hero and it is disrespectful how he gets all the negative things happen to him while the Batfamily is basically untouched. Yeah, they might get hunted during FE but after this, the Heroes will rejoice or what not. Meanwhile, his life is ruined. Unless something spectacular happens(I doubt it), his character is forever change. And it's now a hit or miss. It's risky. And it's not like DC likes Nightwing to the point they'll try to do so much good for him.

#30 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

I will never understand how anyone can read a current comic written by Geoff Johns. Shameful.

#31 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: What do you have against Johns? Did he run over your dog or something?

#32 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: Nah, I just dislike egotistical and terrible writers who destroy characters and companies because of they're own incompetence and immaturity.

#33 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: Nah, I just dislike egotistical and terrible writers who destroy characters and companies because of they're own incompetence and immaturity.

That's more Didio than Johns.

Johns has had great success with characters like Aquaman, Hal Jordan, Wally West, Barry Allen, Hawkman, Teen Titans, JSA, etc.

#35 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: Yeah, I'd lay odds I've read more of Johns' work than you have.

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@smoothjammin: Nah, I just dislike egotistical and terrible writers who destroy characters and companies because of they're own incompetence and immaturity.

That's more Didio than Johns.

Johns has had great success with characters like Aquaman, Hal Jordan, Wally West, Barry Allen, Hawkman, Teen Titans, JSA, etc.

Incorrect. His "great success" comes from the fact that he's usually attached to a reboot of a good character, Gary-Sues them, and then draws in new fans that way. Anyone can do that. His Wally West work was just "I'm not as good as Barry" for 60 issues. Not to mention the Villain Sue Zoom. Aquaman has always been badass, Johns just decided to bring in the "everyone thinks Aquaman is lame" thing in-universe, which thereby lent the idiotic belief credence. Most of his fans are new readers. Why is that? Because the older readers know that he's just urinating all over continuity and characters.

His Teen Titans was good though, agreed there. And Infinite Crisis is great. Then he went insane (though Rebirth was a clear sign it was coming)

#36 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: His work on Green Lantern and Teen Titans was terrible? Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what's happening to Nightwing but to discredit everything the man has done for DC.. don't you think you're reaching a little? If I was a head writer for DC I'm not going to lie, I'd be on my high horse too. He's earned it.

#37 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: I said that his Teen Titans was good.

His GL work is extremely average. The Rainbow Corps was a decent idea (if not at all original), but he completely killed it. Zombies, sexism corps, a corps of one member, a corps that's useless without another, one with 95% braindead members. The only valid Corps beyond Green and Yellow is Compassion, and then he turned them into slavers. Totally pointless. Apparently sadness and happiness aren't on the emotional spectrum either. But will and hope are. WTF? Idiotic.

He hasn't "earned it". He retcons whatever he doesn't like to suit his own stories. Anyone can do that. It requires no skill at all.

#38 Posted by M3th (2037 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: Didn't mean that as an attack, just saying that I've read a lot of his stuff.

#41 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: I know XD You're fine. I'm actually interested in your opinion about him.

#42 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt:

He constructed an entire mythos for Green Lantern by introducing the emotional spectrum. There are spinoff titles right now bearing the fruits of his labor, Red Lanterns, New Guardians, Larfleeze to name a few. The Blue Lanterns are actually my favorite branch!(Actually have a BL ring sitting on my dresser as I type from comic book day) He clearly has a product people are buying and name value. Just cause you're a mopey emo hipster there's no reason to cry about GL not having a misery corps too. It's ok. I get that it's cool to take digs at an established writer. Just don't insult the fans for picking his titles up and reading them.

#43 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: Just some classic Johns moments on books he "improved";

Threeboot Legion: Retconned into being an Earth Prime substitute, effectively removing the characters and story from any real importance in the DCU (not to mention this makes no sense as the Threeboot Legion modeled themselves on the heroes of old. In Earth Prime there was only Superboy).

Superman Birthright: Completely retconned out of existence for the vastly inferior Secret Origins

Speed Force: Rather than being the source of all Speedsters' powers and an extradimensional force that has existed for all time, it was created by Barry Allen (worst idea ever).

Wally West's Character Growth: Every ability Wally learned during Waid's tenure on Flash, Barry knows and can do as well; because, well, just because.

#44 Posted by JayAaerow (450 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: Wow. That might contribute to why the Speedforce is confusing to me O_o

#45 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayaaerow: Basically, it was an extra-dimensional force that was effectively the idea of Speed itself.,When connected to a being, the Speed Force allowed them extremely powerful abilities connected to the concept of Speed, such as stealing it, using it to alter molecular density, and obviously, to move really fast. A person's ability to use the Speed Force was reliant upon how much time they devoted to learning about it, and strengthening their connection. Wally West was able to build an "armor" for himself that allowed him to run, while he was temporarily paralysed.

Geoff Johns decided that this was far too awesome, and instead said that it was a result of Barry Allen's experiment. So now, rather than there being an outside dimensional force, the Speed Force is the result of chemicals and lightning. Thanks, Geoff.

There's actually an interesting correlation between Geoff Johns and Mark Waid. Namely, Mark Waid does something important and awesome in DC, and Geoff Johns retcons it.

#46 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: Johns has made some hiccups but then again, many writers do when they take on a new book. Infinite Crisis is my single favorite event but I despise how Geoff pisses on Batman when given the chance. Grant Morrison made it a habit of doing things his way on Batman, he literally inserted decades of old continuity ranging from Golden Age, to Silver age and beyond into each of his story arcs during his run on Inc. Was there confusion and retcons involved? You bet. It doesn't take away from his genius. I may not understand Johns penchant for glorifying Hal and Barry(<Wally) but I know what works for me and what doesn't. I refuse to derail this thread any further. Lets have some respect for OP and discuss the topic at hand.

#47 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothjammin: Do not compare Morrison's Batman to Johns. It's an insult for one, but more importantly, a totally different scenario.

Morrison took stories that were obsolete and no longer hard-canon, and then integrated them into a modern comic. Zur-En-Arrh was an alien planet, and changed into a simulation of Batman on an alien planet, in order to better create a new story, while honouring the old. Did this alter or insult the former story? No, not at all. In fact, it helped it, because DC published the Black Casebook which allowed for newer readers to find the old story and read about it. Taking what was irrelevant and ignored and making it relevant is not retconning, it's post-modernism at its finest.

Johns takes stuff he doesn't like and changes it completely. Parallax was the result of Hal Jordan suffering a nervous breakdown. Instead, it was changed to a giant fear bug that manipulated Hal and consequently absolved him of all his sins. Ever.

Superman's origin and the LoSH have been successfully updated, and streamlined, with both paying homage to the old, but not being totally dependent on a foolish concept (Superboy helping found the Legion). Johns wants it like the Silver Age, needlessly retcons the Threeboot and Birthright out of canon, in order to make yet more continuity headaches in order to achieve absolutely nothing.

#48 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio
Look at how tiny these kittens are, they fit in coffee mugs!

@fadetoblackbolt:

This one is wearing a bowtie :3

#49 Posted by SmoothJammin (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: The timing is horrible. They plucked him right out Chicago for no real reason at all. The mainstream exposure is the only tangible reason to have an interest in what's happening to Nightwing. He can't win no matter what he does. Now that his identity has been revealed I think it would make the most sense for him to join a government sanctioned team(Justice League Canada) and just roll with it. He's stepped up to the plate before when the league has gone missing, this should be no different.

#50 Edited by Lvenger (18295 posts) - - Show Bio

It's an annoying contrast I have for Johns nowadays. On the one hand, I do like his past works like his Action Comics run, Infinite Crisis, his JSA run and (though I might get flak for this) his Green Lantern run. But since 2011 onwards, he's just gone off the deep end so much that it's unreal. What kind of moron writes stuff like this in the New 52 or Forever Evil?

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