If you were NW would you remain part of the Bat-family?

#1 Posted by RitchieB (221 posts) - - Show Bio

If you were Nightwing would you stay part of the Bat-family? I know the kind of immediate response is yes but really think about it on the New 52 continuem. Your Dick Grayson, your parents were killed infront of you in your teen age years, a man takes you in (batman) trains you to be a superhero, and within 1- 2 years you have a fallout, leave and become NW, at some point you make up and kinda do your own thing, seeing each other from time to time.

Now if in DOTF, Bruce kept all these secrets from you that have so far ended up getting two people killed, your circus attacked, and whatever else happens in DOTF. Would you stay a member of the Bat-family. think about it really, Bruce and Dicks partnership isnt nearly a solid as it was pre-52, they only stayed partners for a few years at most and Dick was pretty much grown up before he met Bruce and from what I see in the NW comics, Dick really doesnt want bruces help for whatever reason, Like funding the carnival or whatever. it could be Dick just wants to be his own man or there could still be a little bit of tension between bruce and dick. and the last time Dick stood up to bruce in Court of Owls, Bruce punched him in the face. I dont know about you guys but if I had someone treat me like Bruce treats Dick, I dont think id stay around much longer.

#2 Edited by richardjohngrayson (444 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, I would. A bit of oversimplification on your part. Dick was still Batman(only pointing it out because you didn't list it.)  and Bruce's talk with Dick at the end of The Court of Owls alone shows the love they have for each other.

#3 Posted by BatWatch (2881 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't think it is a big deal that Batman kept a secret. I'm sure he has tons of other potentially volatile secrets. There was no reason to think this was something they needed to know until now...which is when Bruce told them about it. Nightwing needs Bruce's financing.

#4 Posted by 202122 (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson said:

Yes, I would. A bit of oversimplification on your part. Dick was still Batman(only pointing it out because you didn't list it.) and Bruce's talk with Dick at the end of The Court of Owls alone shows the love they have for each other.

This is such a cute seen but yeah he will always need Bruce and Bruce will always need Dick there as a legacy

#5 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

@richardjohngrayson said:

Yes, I would. A bit of oversimplification on your part. Dick was still Batman(only pointing it out because you didn't list it.) and Bruce's talk with Dick at the end of The Court of Owls alone shows the love they have for each other.

This is such a cute seen but yeah he will always need Bruce and Bruce will always need Dick there as a legacy

Agreed!

#6 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1683 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

@richardjohngrayson said:

Yes, I would. A bit of oversimplification on your part. Dick was still Batman(only pointing it out because you didn't list it.) and Bruce's talk with Dick at the end of The Court of Owls alone shows the love they have for each other.

This is such a cute seen but yeah he will always need Bruce and Bruce will always need Dick there as a legacy

Pretty much. Secrets, anger, fights, it's standard procedure for these two ever since Crisis on Infinite Earths (Before that the relationship was based on mutual trust and respect without any of the negatives that were brought in during the Dark Age). Dick's the First Son, Bruce's heir, they need each other and it'd be idiotic for Dick to throw that away over one secret, though I fully admit Bruce should've said something earlier, because the way this entire Joker/Cave debacle reads to me is that Bruce it trying to convince himself that Joker couldn't have gotten into the cave.

#7 Posted by darkwingdan (190 posts) - - Show Bio

It's tough to say. I can say that if I were writing Nightwing, I'd probably hit on most of the same beats that Higgins has in his current run, except I would return Dick to Bludhaven. Yes, it was destroyed by Chemo in Infinite Crisis, but Coast City and Gotham have been destroyed in the past. Furthermore, Bludhaven is an example of a city where a hero failed. Dick did not leave the city having saved it. He left it as a disgraced character. I'd like to see him return there to battle his own personal demons.

So, I guess you could say that I'd keep him as part of the Bat Family, but more at arms' length so that he can be used if necessary.

#8 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkwingdan said:

It's tough to say. I can say that if I were writing Nightwing, I'd probably hit on most of the same beats that Higgins has in his current run, except I would return Dick to Bludhaven. Yes, it was destroyed by Chemo in Infinite Crisis, but Coast City and Gotham have been destroyed in the past. Furthermore, Bludhaven is an example of a city where a hero failed. Dick did not leave the city having saved it. He left it as a disgraced character. I'd like to see him return there to battle his own personal demons.

So, I guess you could say that I'd keep him as part of the Bat Family, but more at arms' length so that he can be used if necessary.

Whilst your reasoning for having Dick return to Bludhaven is solid I still can't help myself from feeling that Dick in Bludhaven is simply another way of DC cutting him out of the action. Its a crafty way of them satisfying fans (to an extent) whilst also holding Dick back, in essence they're allowing a measure of growth in the short term so in the long term they can cut the character out of certain arcs. It satisfies fans in the sense that they see Dick getting out of Bruce's shadow and effectively becoming 'Bludhaven's Batman', but it also means that when it suits DC they can say 'Nightwing can't possibly come and help Bruce in *insert arc name* because he's all the way in Bludhaven'. We've seen this happen in the Arkham video games, there's a couple of easter eggs (posters) relating to the Flying Graysons and the word Nightwing is mentioned (along with Huntress) in an interview tape extra item in the game that can easily be missed. Yet we all know that if Bruce was stuck in the situations he found himself in during those games Dick would be contacted straight away by Alfred and he'd be there to help out regardless of whether he was in Bludhaven or not.

#9 Posted by wessaari (632 posts) - - Show Bio

No, and not necessarily for Bruce keeping secrets. Dick knows this, and it isn't that surprising that Bruce has been and is currently keeping secrets. Dick saw it as info that could have helped, while Bruce didn't see it that way. After DOTF, things look grim and Higgins has stated that NW is going in a new direction. Dick doesn't necessarily have to leave everyone out of anger, but in a sense that he has to find himself again. Haly's was going to be his way of accomplishing his goals, but after that, i think Dick will go back to focussing on crime on a higher level. He will need to learn some new tricks, and get faster and stronger. While in Gotham, he won't allow himself time for that. He doesn't need to go to Bludhaven, but for a while he needs to leave Gotham. Gotham is filled with heroes and is getting practically overcrowded. If Dick wants to really mature and improve himself, he needs to leave his world behind for a bit.

#10 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1683 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat said:

@darkwingdan said:

It's tough to say. I can say that if I were writing Nightwing, I'd probably hit on most of the same beats that Higgins has in his current run, except I would return Dick to Bludhaven. Yes, it was destroyed by Chemo in Infinite Crisis, but Coast City and Gotham have been destroyed in the past. Furthermore, Bludhaven is an example of a city where a hero failed. Dick did not leave the city having saved it. He left it as a disgraced character. I'd like to see him return there to battle his own personal demons.

So, I guess you could say that I'd keep him as part of the Bat Family, but more at arms' length so that he can be used if necessary.

Whilst your reasoning for having Dick return to Bludhaven is solid I still can't help myself from feeling that Dick in Bludhaven is simply another way of DC cutting him out of the action. Its a crafty way of them satisfying fans (to an extent) whilst also holding Dick back, in essence they're allowing a measure of growth in the short term so in the long term they can cut the character out of certain arcs. It satisfies fans in the sense that they see Dick getting out of Bruce's shadow and effectively becoming 'Bludhaven's Batman', but it also means that when it suits DC they can say 'Nightwing can't possibly come and help Bruce in *insert arc name* because he's all the way in Bludhaven'. We've seen this happen in the Arkham video games, there's a couple of easter eggs (posters) relating to the Flying Graysons and the word Nightwing is mentioned (along with Huntress) in an interview tape extra item in the game that can easily be missed. Yet we all know that if Bruce was stuck in the situations he found himself in during those games Dick would be contacted straight away by Alfred and he'd be there to help out regardless of whether he was in Bludhaven or not.

True enough, but the same could happen even with Dick in Gotham. Really that's one of the things that's never really touched on. It's a big city, and while Bruce is in the sewer fighting Killer Croc (Just picking something out of thin air, not referencing any particular story) Dick could be on the other side of town going toe to toe with Scarecrow and working to solve a mystery/crime. There's also Damian to consider, who really has no other obligation than to be by Bruce's side.

Another problem with Dick being directly in Gotham, is that it can still be seen as him being subordinate to Bruce. Simply put, Bruce's city, Bruce's rules.

As said, Dick didn't leave Bludhaven as a conquering hero. He was disgraced. Physically and mentally beaten in the fight, and there's never really been any sense of closure with that. I'd definitely be interested in seeing him return (If the city was rebuilt) and attempting to help out/rebuild what was destroyed. Heck, I think he'd feel like he had to, because that was his city in the way that Gotham is Bruce's. Being in Bludhaven definitely makes it more likely that Dick won't appear at Bruce's side as often, but really that's something that again still happens in Bat books regardless, and is something that shouldn't happen that often anyways because while Dick's definitely the first son and all he's also his own man and has his own thing going on. He doesn't need to turn up every single time there's a crisis in Gotham.

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