In the current Batman and Robin arc, Dick is next on Damian's "hitlist". In what area will he challenge Dick? The two areas where I think he is unbeatable are his acrobatics and leadership skills. I don't see Damian getting a billion friends soon and if I see him pull off a quadruple somersault......Tomasi's name goes straight on my "Mortal Enemies" list :)

What do you all think?

wait is he still challenging the former robins on the batman and robin 12 description it just says damian and bruce are having there final fight against terminous

I don't know how Damian would challenge Dick, I also don't see why he would do it, Dick was his mentor for a year and I'm pretty sure they ended up being friends after that.

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

I was really hopeful with how Damian's character was progressing after the Nobody arc but this just brings him back to everything we hate about his character. In a way I get it, he's trying to beat each former Robin at their own game. He outsmarted Tim to get him (Tim) to confess something and he out fought Jason (though that is debatable as he only got in one good punch and then left). But what does that leave for Dick? He's going to do a better somersault routine than him? I'm thinking its going to be something more about being Robin or possibly a son of Bruce Wayne. Maybe showcasing how much better a fighting pair he (Damian) and Bruce are or how quick he can get Bruce to accept him. Something that doesn't involve a physical confrontation though as that's not where I would say Dick's strength as a Robin lied (not saying he wasn't a great fighter just that there are other aspects to his time as Robin) whereas his interaction and synched movements with Bruce is still mentioned as better than Jason or Tim's ever were.

Tomasi was my favorite writer on Nightwing. That said, His rebooted Batman and Robin is slightly above average standards for me, characterizations can and will be iffy sometimes. RainEffect you also have to put into account this is the new 52, are we entirely positive Damian and Tim have scuffled in the past. How deep does their feud run..we don't know for sure.

Vern I get the impression Dick feints a loss to Damian, I can't see how Damian outhustles him in any aspect of his game.

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah, I dropped B&R after the latest issue. I think he is just trying too hard to make Damian cool. I mean, its pretty dumb actually. Plus it wasn't even a good fight, If they had a Justice League like battle and reconcile, then fine. But gosh, it felt so forced. I thought the first arc was really good, then afterwards it just went all weird.

Damian has grown on me. I like how he has his own motives and is constantly trying to prove himself to Bruce and the others.

Damian's my favorite "Robin", he's got alot going for him in the future(Irks me when Tomasi doesn't capture his personality/voice)

Dick's my favorite Bat-son :)

@htb106 said:

I don't know how Damian would challenge Dick, I also don't see why he would do it, Dick was his mentor for a year and I'm pretty sure they ended up being friends after that.

To prove that he's the best Robin.

He should wait until he's older before he gets his ass handed to him by Dick.

He's challenging them all apparently.

Damian's getting closer and closer to lapping Tim. Theoretically he is the best Robin since Tim never actually was one. I mean if we're really being technical..

Dick will win in his and damians figth. Damien wining over jason is PIS

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)@ltbrd said:

I was really hopeful with how Damian's character was progressing after the Nobody arc but this just brings him back to everything we hate about his character. In a way I get it, he's trying to beat each former Robin at their own game. He outsmarted Tim to get him (Tim) to confess something and he out fought Jason (though that is debatable as he only got in one good punch and then left). But what does that leave for Dick? He's going to do a better somersault routine than him? I'm thinking its going to be something more about being Robin or possibly a son of Bruce Wayne. Maybe showcasing how much better a fighting pair he (Damian) and Bruce are or how quick he can get Bruce to accept him. Something that doesn't involve a physical confrontation though as that's not where I would say Dick's strength as a Robin lied (not saying he wasn't a great fighter just that there are other aspects to his time as Robin) whereas his interaction and synched movements with Bruce is still mentioned as better than Jason or Tim's ever were.

Thats would be an interesting idea and something that Dick might "feel unbeatable" in. But any "challenge" that relies too much on Dick's relationship with Dick.....doesn't make sense to me. Sure, he respects Bruce and all but he was the first and only Robin thus far to really leave Bruce's side (maybe an argument could be made for Tim but I don't think so). To me, so much of Dick's character has been the struggle of beimg in the shadow of the Bat (note: this pulls from various Dick incarnations so it might not jive with the comics). That being said, I don't think that Damian challenging Dick as being the better "son" would get under Dick's skin. He'd just shurg and say "Sure."

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Sad thing is....it had so much potential. I have seen some other ideas that fans have had surrounding this arc and it could have been SOOOOO GOOD and lastd way beyond 2 or 3 issues. Dealing with the struggles the "brothers" have coming together, etc. It really could have been epic. It's really a missed opportunity as I feel that there aren't many other families or legacies in the comic world where you can explore this idea of succession while the head man is still around.

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Sad thing is....it had so much potential. I have seen some other ideas that fans have had surrounding this arc and it could have been SOOOOO GOOD and lastd way beyond 2 or 3 issues. Dealing with the struggles the "brothers" have coming together, etc. It really could have been epic. It's really a missed opportunity as I feel that there aren't many other families or legacies in the comic world where you can explore this idea of succession while the head man is still around.

exactly. and come on. Damian beating up Jason is just so not realistic. It made me so mad, I never got pissed reading comics. I accept the unpredictable nature of it. This one was just so darn annoying.

As i was reading Nightwing #11 the scene between Dick and Damian showed they are still close I don't really want this to happen. Knowing it has to I guess I just pull for Dick to give Damian the beating he has coming. No one has checked this kid yet and it's due.

Tomasi is really letting me down. Sad because I've really enjoyed B&R up until this point.

Jason should have smacked this kid.
 
He pretty much shrugged off Damian in every little battle the had pre-Flashpoint.

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

I agree with this.

Yeah Damian did get a lot of training from the League of Shadows/Assassins and Talia from the moment he was born, but does that training count for more than all the training Dick, Jason and Tim had?

Dick - trained by Bruce (although Bruce wasn't as experienced at the time), a natural acrobat with ridiculous reflexes and a great leader.

Jason - again, trained by Bruce and then after his resurrection he went around using the same mentors as Bruce but this time made a point of learning the more lethal and cut-throat aspects.

Tim - Incredibly gifted strategist, probably more intelligent than Bruce, very skilled fighter.

That said, I thought the whole point of Damian challenging the other Robin's was that he wanted to beat them in an area they thought themselves to be unbeatable. Tim always treated Damian like he was just a killing machine and acted like he would never stoop to that level. Damian didn't want to beat him in a fight, he just wanted Tim to admit that he's had the exact same urge to kill.

I still can't see what he'd want to beat Dick at though. There's no way he could ever beat Dick from an acrobatic/reflexes point of view. And in the last Nightwing issue they seemed to get along really well. I almost get the feeling that Tomasi intends to have Damian beat Tim and Jason but fail against Dick, at least I hope that's what is planned. Having Damian come out on top against all of them wouldn't really work in my opinion, and from a character development point of view it'd surely be better to have Damian lose to Dick and learn a lesson in humility than to have him win and be a cocky brat for the rest of eternity.

@LuigiBat said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

I agree with this.

Yeah Damian did get a lot of training from the League of Shadows/Assassins and Talia from the moment he was born, but does that training count for more than all the training Dick, Jason and Tim had?

Dick - trained by Bruce (although Bruce wasn't as experienced at the time), a natural acrobat with ridiculous reflexes and a great leader.

Jason - again, trained by Bruce and then after his resurrection he went around using the same mentors as Bruce but this time made a point of learning the more lethal and cut-throat aspects.

Tim - Incredibly gifted strategist, probably more intelligent than Bruce, very skilled fighter.

That said, I thought the whole point of Damian challenging the other Robin's was that he wanted to beat them in an area they thought themselves to be unbeatable. Tim always treated Damian like he was just a killing machine and acted like he would never stoop to that level. Damian didn't want to beat him in a fight, he just wanted Tim to admit that he's had the exact same urge to kill.

I still can't see what he'd want to beat Dick at though. There's no way he could ever beat Dick from an acrobatic/reflexes point of view. And in the last Nightwing issue they seemed to get along really well. I almost get the feeling that Tomasi intends to have Damian beat Tim and Jason but fail against Dick, at least I hope that's what is planned. Having Damian come out on top against all of them wouldn't really work in my opinion, and from a character development point of view it'd surely be better to have Damian lose to Dick and learn a lesson in humility than to have him win and be a cocky brat for the rest of eternity.

I think Tomasi just wanted Damian to look cool.

Everytime I see Damian's face now I feel like slapping it.

I am going to so annoyed if Damian defeats Dick ... i mean lets not even think about how Damian nearly defeated two of the best fighters in DC Tim and Jason... Dick is the one who partialy trained him and taught him to be a better person + showed killing is not the only way. So what should happen is in my opinion is that Damian should try to get at Dick but Dick should see it coming and stop him and then talk because Dick is a cool brother like that!

I think he will challenge him, but he wouldn't win. Dick took the mantle as batman and did a good job as batman too. If challenged Dick would win because he has experience and is a better fighter.

@timelord786 said:

I am going to so annoyed if Damian defeats Dick ... i mean lets not even think about how Damian nearly defeated two of the best fighters in DC Tim and Jason... Dick is the one who partialy trained him and taught him to be a better person + showed killing is not the only way. So what should happen is in my opinion is that Damian should try to get at Dick but Dick should see it coming and stop him and then talk because Dick is a cool brother like that!

Best case scenario this is what happens.

@Animal_Man25 said:

I think he will challenge him, but he wouldn't win. Dick took the mantle as batman and did a good job as batman too. If challenged Dick would win because he has experience and is a better fighter.

Even if Damian gets the jump on Dick, I have a feeling he won't "pull the trigger" so to speak. The bond they share is too powerful. Dick is Damian's only true friend. I don't believe it will come down to blows between these 2 Robins. Needless to say, the intangibles favor Dick.. I don't see why he shouldn't triumph over his former protege.

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)

Jason said pretty clearly that he wasn't about to put the hurt on a little kid, and in almost those exact words. I assume he wasn't going all out. And Tim being suddenly leagues above Damian and one to hold back is straight WIS. In short, that was lame.

10 year old Dami murders 10 year old Tim. Prime for prime it's the same outcome I tell you.

@KnightRise said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)

Jason said pretty clearly that he wasn't about to put the hurt on a little kid, and in almost those exact words. I assume he wasn't going all out. And Tim being suddenly leagues above Damian and one to hold back is straight WIS. In short, that was lame.

Truth.

Tim Drake fans seem to complain the most about Damian, even though he's a far more interesting character and Tim is just a Mary Sue.

The fights are more about Damian getting in all of their heads and exposing their weaknesses. It's a pretty good read.

The Terminus stuff creeped me out. His flesh dripping off, the army of gimmicky cripples ugh Tomasi u animal

@SmoothJammin said:

10 year old Dami murders 10 year old Tim. Prime for prime it's the same outcome I tell you.

I'd kind of expect that to be the case though, given that Damian was trained from birth by Talia and the League before then receiving training from both Dick and Bruce. Even with his new 'Olympian' background Tim would never have had the kind of training Damian was given by the age of 10.

@LuigiBat: At their physical peaks it will be interesting to gauge which sidekick is greater. I'll roll with Damian, ride or die baby!!!

@TheAnnihilator said:

@KnightRise said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)

Jason said pretty clearly that he wasn't about to put the hurt on a little kid, and in almost those exact words. I assume he wasn't going all out. And Tim being suddenly leagues above Damian and one to hold back is straight WIS. In short, that was lame.

Truth.

Tim Drake fans seem to complain the most about Damian, even though he's a far more interesting character and Tim is just a Mary Sue.

The fights are more about Damian getting in all of their heads and exposing their weaknesses. It's a pretty good read.

have you considered maybe damian just isnt that popular?

The thi@sethysquare said:

@

have you considered maybe damian just isnt that popular?

Yeah I never liked him as a character at all. Dick is my favorite (even more than bruce), but Damian is just too much of a jerk for me. He is so arrogant that it doesn't allow me to like the character at all.

@KnightRise said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)

Jason said pretty clearly that he wasn't about to put the hurt on a little kid, and in almost those exact words. I assume he wasn't going all out. And Tim being suddenly leagues above Damian and one to hold back is straight WIS. In short, that was lame.

Truth.

Tim Drake fans seem to complain the most about Damian, even though he's a far more interesting character and Tim is just a Mary Sue.

The fights are more about Damian getting in all of their heads and exposing their weaknesses. It's a pretty good read.

• Seven issues before, he took on the entire Council of Spiders at once (seven master assassins).
• Two issues before, he fought with Ra's al Ghul (albeit a losing battle).
  
• He also stalemated Dick in that series.
  

@RainEffect in the stalemate with Grayson it was obvious that Drake was trying to win where as Dick was trying to talk sense into him. Can't call it a fight if only one dude is fighting, broski,

@richardjohngrayson said:

@RainEffect in the stalemate with Grayson it was obvious that Drake was trying to win where as Dick was trying to talk sense into him. Can't call it a fight if only one dude is fighting, broski,

Agreed. Dick wasn't trying to beat him and arguably wouldn't have wanted to do so.

I really don't like how a lot of people seem to prop Tim up on a pedestal and start worshipping him to the point where everything that occurs, be it good or bad, was part of Tim's 'plan'. This is what it comes across like:

Tim gets brutally beaten - Tim fans say he planned it

Bruce Wayne dies and then re-emerges through the time stream to return - Tim fans say it was all part of the masterplan Tim had going on

In short it feels like at times people are making Tim into God and believe that he has total control over everything. I like the character but he's not this infallible being that a lot of people seem to make him out to be.

In the entire Resurrection of Ra's al Ghu storyline Tim came off as weak and corruptible. Everyone says how much he is like Bruce but I don't think for one second Bruce would have EVER thought of using the pit to bring back his Mother and Father...or Jason.

@richardjohngrayson said:

In the entire Resurrection of Ra's al Ghu storyline Tim came off as weak and corruptible. Everyone says how much he is like Bruce but I don't think for one second Bruce would have EVER thought of using the pit to bring back his Mother and Father...or Jason.

This is true.

I'm pretty sure Dick wouldn't do it either come to think of it. Tim's always had an air of moral corruptibility about him, I'd actually argue the reason he jibes Damian so much about wanting to kill is that secretly he'd like to do the same or worse and he realises that actually he would take pleasure in doing it. Bruce has admitted that he'd like nothing more than to torture the Joker in ever conceivable way before ultimately killing him but he hasn't ever done so due to his morals and the fact is that Bruce is pretty much incorruptible whereas Tim seems like he could easily 'turn to the dark side'.

Also, am I the only one who distinctly remembers Tim getting completely bossed by Jason in Battle For The Cowl? Granted Jason was using full on lethal force and all that but even so Tim put up very little fight.

@SmoothJammin said:

Damian's getting closer and closer to lapping Tim. Theoretically he is the best Robin since Tim never actually was one. I mean if we're really being technical..

i don't know if this is true, i know that Tomasi said something to the effect that Tim never was robin, but how is their relationship explained then?

Like the family photo issue where all these trials started. They are all speaking as if they were all robins.

I think some people are missing seem key points in tomasi's writing. When Damian beats Jason, it's in a typical way a 10 year old beats you, punches and runs away. But look earlier in that issue, tomasi makes a point of showing Jason is exhausted and looking forward to bed. If any of you had a little brother or rat of a cousin, this is exactly when they would strike to punch you in the nuts or something. The difference here is the 10year old has ninja training. I haven't read the Tim issue yet so will hold reservation, I will be pretty pissed if he beat Tim after that issue of red robin made up for writers in the past amping up Damian at the expense of Tim

@RainEffect said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

@KnightRise said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)

Jason said pretty clearly that he wasn't about to put the hurt on a little kid, and in almost those exact words. I assume he wasn't going all out. And Tim being suddenly leagues above Damian and one to hold back is straight WIS. In short, that was lame.

Truth.

Tim Drake fans seem to complain the most about Damian, even though he's a far more interesting character and Tim is just a Mary Sue.

The fights are more about Damian getting in all of their heads and exposing their weaknesses. It's a pretty good read.

Whoah whoah, hold on guys - let's not get too excited about ragging on Tim. That fight was legit because of the following reasons.

• Seven issues before, he took on the entire Council of Spiders at once (seven master assassins).
• Two issues before, he fought with Ra's al Ghul (albeit a losing battle).
• He also stalemated Dick in that series.

It was totally legit that Damian lost to Tim so easily. Tim had been hardened by Bruce's death and working with the League, so when Damian tried to cheap shot him, Tim's rage finally boiled over and he dropped the little punk.

As for Tim's personality, a mary sue? Come off it! I'm more than happy to debate this prospect, but this isn't the forum for it.

yeah, i agree with @RainEffect here

@Animal_Man25 said:

The thi@sethysquare said:

@

have you considered maybe damian just isnt that popular?

Yeah I never liked him as a character at all. Dick is my favorite (even more than bruce), but Damian is just too much of a jerk for me. He is so arrogant that it doesn't allow me to like the character at all.

AMEN!

Honestly, Damian's "Challenges" aren't even really challenges, he's just mildly annoying each former Robin, then running away with a sense of accomplishment.

@The Stegman: Lol

@sethysquare said:

@RainEffect said:

@TheAnnihilator said:

@KnightRise said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@RainEffect said:

@sethysquare said:

I just think Damian is such a lame character. Its annoying.

I know right?!

Regardless, Tomasi is an idiot. I mean, he wrote that Damian beat Jason. What a joke. And then, in the issue beforehand, he gave Tim a hard time, when in Red Robin #14, Tim absolutely stomped Damian. His exact words were "I've always held back for Bruce".

The way I see it, lads, is just ignore Tomasi's writing with these Damian 'Robin trials'. It is a joke.

Yeah....beating jason made me mad. I mean, the kid is 10, right? reagrdless of how much training you've had, Jason is no slouch and has years and strength onn Damina. (You know its bad when I'm actually defending Jason Todd....sheesh)

Jason said pretty clearly that he wasn't about to put the hurt on a little kid, and in almost those exact words. I assume he wasn't going all out. And Tim being suddenly leagues above Damian and one to hold back is straight WIS. In short, that was lame.

Truth.

Tim Drake fans seem to complain the most about Damian, even though he's a far more interesting character and Tim is just a Mary Sue.

The fights are more about Damian getting in all of their heads and exposing their weaknesses. It's a pretty good read.

Whoah whoah, hold on guys - let's not get too excited about ragging on Tim. That fight was legit because of the following reasons.

• Seven issues before, he took on the entire Council of Spiders at once (seven master assassins).
• Two issues before, he fought with Ra's al Ghul (albeit a losing battle).
• He also stalemated Dick in that series.

It was totally legit that Damian lost to Tim so easily. Tim had been hardened by Bruce's death and working with the League, so when Damian tried to cheap shot him, Tim's rage finally boiled over and he dropped the little punk.

As for Tim's personality, a mary sue? Come off it! I'm more than happy to debate this prospect, but this isn't the forum for it.

yeah, i agree with @RainEffect here

Should be interesting

@sethysquare: While he has plenty of people that dislike him, the most abundant source are Tim Drake fans. There is no denying this.

@RainEffect: I feel like a lot of the things he did in Red Robin he shouldn't have been able to do, but that is a whole other discussion. And while I'm always eager to talk about how Tim is a Mary Sue, you're right, this isn't the thread for it.

He shouldn't be able to challenge Nightwing

he handled it in a very lovable Dick Grayson way.

Haha, I knew they wouldn't have the balls to show Damian giving Dick any kind of beating.

Those few panels just epitomise what I love about Dick Grayson. Batman wins respect through fear and impressing people with feats of intelligence or physical prowess. Dick wins respect because he's an awesome guy.

@LuigiBat said:

Haha, I knew they wouldn't have the balls to show Damian giving Dick any kind of beating.

Those few panels just epitomise what I love about Dick Grayson. Batman wins respect through fear and impressing people with feats of intelligence or physical prowess. Dick wins respect because he's an awesome guy.

Lol.....and at the same time, maybe, just maybe, Dick owned Damian on the sly. Love it. Thought this guy might not be the primary Nightwing writer (and don't really think I would want to see him replace Higgins) I think he did a great job of understanding/ accurately writing Grayson in this panel. Can't wait for the rest of the issue