1) Bludhaven is gone (the story, I mean).

2) The original Titans are gone, along with most of his experience (see above)

3) "Batman Reborn" has been compromised

4) Damian's dead.

Is Dick still the first sidekick turned solo hero? Does that status carry the same weight anymore?

Hmm. More later.

Isn't he supposed to be going to Chicago?

@evilvegeta74: yup. I really thought his whole circus in Gotham was awesome though.

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

Isn't he supposed to be going to Chicago?

yup

Ok,thanks.

@AllStarSuperman said:

@evilvegeta74: yup. I really thought his whole circus in Gotham was awesome though.

It's sad that things turned out that way, You can really say he's lost more than Bruce, including Damian.

@evilvegeta74 said:

@AllStarSuperman said:

@evilvegeta74: yup. I really thought his whole circus in Gotham was awesome though.

It's sad that things turned out that way, You can really say he's lost more than Bruce, including Damian.

Yup I hope he stays him self and doesn't go dark though

@AllStarSuperman said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@AllStarSuperman said:

@evilvegeta74: yup. I really thought his whole circus in Gotham was awesome though.

It's sad that things turned out that way, You can really say he's lost more than Bruce, including Damian.

Yup I hope he stays him self and doesn't go dark though

me too!

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

@VampireSelektor said:

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

His founding status as a Titan, for one. That was an essential part of Dick's story...I mean, Dick became a real character in Wolfman's Titans series, and now Tim has that, while Jason has his former teammates. Seriously, Dick excelled as a team player, and he was at his best (aside from his time as Batman) when he was on the fringe of the Batman franchise. Tim, on the other hand, was his best when he was with the Batman franchise. Young Justice was good, and his Titans run was okay, but he was better in Gotham. Why they decided to reverse that is a mystery to me.

@nmiller1939 said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

His founding status as a Titan, for one. That was an essential part of Dick's story...I mean, Dick became a real character in Wolfman's Titans series, and now Tim has that, while Jason has his former teammates. Seriously, Dick excelled as a team player, and he was at his best (aside from his time as Batman) when he was on the fringe of the Batman franchise. Tim, on the other hand, was his best when he was with the Batman franchise. Young Justice was good, and his Titans run was okay, but he was better in Gotham. Why they decided to reverse that is a mystery to me.

Oh, right. :)

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@nmiller1939 said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

His founding status as a Titan, for one. That was an essential part of Dick's story...I mean, Dick became a real character in Wolfman's Titans series, and now Tim has that, while Jason has his former teammates. Seriously, Dick excelled as a team player, and he was at his best (aside from his time as Batman) when he was on the fringe of the Batman franchise. Tim, on the other hand, was his best when he was with the Batman franchise. Young Justice was good, and his Titans run was okay, but he was better in Gotham. Why they decided to reverse that is a mystery to me.

to be fair, Dick still had adventures with most Cyborg, Starfire, Arsenal, Tempest and the like, they just never called themselves the Titans. Tim just met his Titans teammates.

This isn't exactly accurate. Nightwing and Cyborg haven't met on-panel yet. Does Garth even exist in the New52?

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@nmiller1939 said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

His founding status as a Titan, for one. That was an essential part of Dick's story...I mean, Dick became a real character in Wolfman's Titans series, and now Tim has that, while Jason has his former teammates. Seriously, Dick excelled as a team player, and he was at his best (aside from his time as Batman) when he was on the fringe of the Batman franchise. Tim, on the other hand, was his best when he was with the Batman franchise. Young Justice was good, and his Titans run was okay, but he was better in Gotham. Why they decided to reverse that is a mystery to me.

to be fair, Dick still had adventures with most Cyborg, Starfire, Arsenal, Tempest and the like, they just never called themselves the Titans. Tim just met his Titans teammates.

This isn't exactly accurate. Nightwing and Cyborg haven't met on-panel yet. Does Garth even exist in the New52?

He does. Apparently Aquaman has made hints as to his existence. I haven't been reading it, though, so I can't say what exactly has happened.

And yeah, we know Dick worked with Starfire and Arsenal in some capacity, but we don't know how much

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@nmiller1939 said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

His founding status as a Titan, for one. That was an essential part of Dick's story...I mean, Dick became a real character in Wolfman's Titans series, and now Tim has that, while Jason has his former teammates. Seriously, Dick excelled as a team player, and he was at his best (aside from his time as Batman) when he was on the fringe of the Batman franchise. Tim, on the other hand, was his best when he was with the Batman franchise. Young Justice was good, and his Titans run was okay, but he was better in Gotham. Why they decided to reverse that is a mystery to me.

to be fair, Dick still had adventures with most Cyborg, Starfire, Arsenal, Tempest and the like, they just never called themselves the Titans. Tim just met his Titans teammates.

This isn't exactly accurate. Nightwing and Cyborg haven't met on-panel yet. Does Garth even exist in the New52?

Arsenal said mentioned Victor and Garth while talking to Starfire.

Yeah, but that was very early in the series, back before they decided that Tim's Titans were the first version. This was the same time period when Tim mentioned being Robin and the fact that Dick led the Teen Titans back in the day.

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@nmiller1939 said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@nmiller1939 said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@havoc1201 said:

@soduh2 said:

@Phaedrusgr said:

It's New52, guys. Everybody's lost something. We can't put them on the scale! Let's hope, they have great stories to tell in their minds.

Some (like Dick) lost more than others. In fact, Jason and Tim seems to have gained a lot of what Dick lost.

700th post!

Tim actually lost a lot, he lost his true origin which they gave some of it to Dick, he lost his close relationship with Dick something i truly miss for both characters, also he is a lesser character now and is very secluded from the Bat Fam. I mean he and Jason are the closest which makes no sense at all.

What Tim traits were given to Dick? Oh, you mean figuring out Batman's identity? I would chock that up to Dick's body reading. Body language was Cassie's forte, no? I see what you mean though.

His founding status as a Titan, for one. That was an essential part of Dick's story...I mean, Dick became a real character in Wolfman's Titans series, and now Tim has that, while Jason has his former teammates. Seriously, Dick excelled as a team player, and he was at his best (aside from his time as Batman) when he was on the fringe of the Batman franchise. Tim, on the other hand, was his best when he was with the Batman franchise. Young Justice was good, and his Titans run was okay, but he was better in Gotham. Why they decided to reverse that is a mystery to me.

to be fair, Dick still had adventures with most Cyborg, Starfire, Arsenal, Tempest and the like, they just never called themselves the Titans. Tim just met his Titans teammates.

This isn't exactly accurate. Nightwing and Cyborg haven't met on-panel yet. Does Garth even exist in the New52?

Arsenal said mentioned Victor and Garth while talking to Starfire.

Yeah, but that was very early in the series, back before they decided that Tim's Titans were the first version. This was the same time period when Tim mentioned being Robin and the fact that Dick led the Teen Titans back in the day.

still no real evidence to the contrary, DC edited out Tim mentioning these things in subsequent reprints whereas if im not mistaken they haven't done so with RHATO

That's fair. I just feel that the veracity of that is questionable at this point.

You forgot Lady Shiva also kicked the crap out of him while he was injured.....

Shiva said that they would meet again and she expects more from him so hopefully, he will improve his martial artist.

Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Roy Harper, Garth, Gar Logan, Raven- How is it that Cyborg is the only character from the glorious New Teen Titans run to come out of Flashpoint the better for it? Every character I mentioned has either been changed so much they're a shadow of their former selves (Dick, Roy, Gar) or put on a bus and sent into a black hole (Wally, Donna, Garth, Raven)