Dick Graysons Chronicles

#1 Edited by tobiasPUNK (116 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a huge fan of the whole Batman franchise. Dick Grayson is one of my favourite heroes of all time. Yet he hardly gets to be involved in any other media form...okay he's been in a few (The Animated series, Under the Red Hood etc.) but never on his own. He's always a cameo in Batman.

I don't care for the Green Lantern who seems to have a talking squirrel on his team, Wonder Woman who flies an invisible jet (worst idea ever) or Superman who seems to be the Swiss Army knife of heroes...Any way enough of that rant.

I'd like to see a whole separate story that chronicles Dick's life from Haly's Circus to becoming Robin and lastly Nightwing, with Bruce/ Batman only playing a minor role. And I've looked around and to me it seems there's a lot of fans wanting the same thing. Your thoughts?

- Tobias

#2 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

There was going to be a live-action series at one point, but alas, it was too good to be true.

#3 Posted by tobiasPUNK (116 posts) - - Show Bio

It always is unfortunately.

#4 Edited by SmoothJammin (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't be so glum chum. In 09 there was a proposed Nightwing pitch by Ki Hyun Ryu, alas it was canned. Probably a good thing to be honest, viewers might never have gotten their precious Young Justice or Korra had the series been greenlit. My point is, can you imagine what kind of pull this character has over fans that even renowned directors take interest and include him in different mediums.He's the star of Young Justice. He's going to be in the game too! The Gotham City Imposters DLC--that game was partially based on him and revolves around a conflict surrounding his time as Batman. Lets not forget he's been featured in other games as well, Arkham City, Batman:Rise of the Sin Tzu, Teen Titans, Batman: Brave and the Bold etc etc.

As you mentioned he's enjoyed cameos in several cartoon and animated film series. Nightwing has all the starpower and exposure in the world.

His time will come.

#5 Posted by DurararaFTW (73 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't really say his stint on the Batman Animated series was a cameo. And he's a main character on the Teen Titans, and the main character of Young Justice along with Superboy.

#6 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

Don't be so glum chum. In 09 there was a proposed Nightwing pitch by Ki Hyun Ryu, alas it was canned. Probably a good thing to be honest, viewers might never have gotten their precious Young Justice or Korra had the series been greenlit. My point is, can you imagine what kind of pull this character has over fans that even renowned directors take interest and include him in different mediums.He's the star of Young Justice. He's going to be in the game too! The Gotham City Imposters DLC--that game was partially based on him and revolves around a conflict surrounding his time as Batman. Lets not forget he's been featured in other games as well, Arkham City, Batman:Rise of the Sin Tzu, Teen Titans, Batman: Brave and the Bold etc etc.

As you mentioned he's enjoyed cameos in several cartoon and animated film series. Nightwing has all the starpower and exposure in the world.

His time will come.

The problem isn't so much that he isn't appearing things, as I've mentioned before I'm very happy that he's being used, rather the issue is that he is often relegated to minor roles or made to seem simply as 'an older Robin' rather than a hero in his own right. Arkham City had a Flying Grayson's poster and a passing mention of both Nightwing and Hawkgirl (or was it Huntress?) in an interview tape that could only be accessed by finding a set number of Riddler trophies, he's certainly around somewhere in the story side of the Arkhamverse, but he's not exactly prominent in the universe either. Yeah they gave him a DLC pack, but they didn't give him a voice actor or do anything groundbreaking with it. As I've said before now, Nightwing's apparent omission from the main story in Arkham Asylum and Arkham City is a mystery to me, we know full well that if Bruce were in that kind of trouble Alfred and Babs would call Dick (irrespective of Bruce's wishes I might add) without hesitation, it wouldn't have detracted from the story to have a couple of cutscenes (similar to the one where Tim appears to help Batman) where Dick is around trying to help Bruce.

I think the biggest issue with Nightwing is that people don't really know who he is, they look at him and are immediately drawn to him but without knowing who he is people won't necessarily touch the franchise. For the character to really take off he needs to be used in a successful and popular Batman movie, only with that exposure will more people buy into the character and this would subsequently allow for Nightwing animated series/animated movies etc etc.

#7 Posted by SmoothJammin (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat said:

@SmoothJammin said:

Don't be so glum chum. In 09 there was a proposed Nightwing pitch by Ki Hyun Ryu, alas it was canned. Probably a good thing to be honest, viewers might never have gotten their precious Young Justice or Korra had the series been greenlit. My point is, can you imagine what kind of pull this character has over fans that even renowned directors take interest and include him in different mediums.He's the star of Young Justice. He's going to be in the game too! The Gotham City Imposters DLC--that game was partially based on him and revolves around a conflict surrounding his time as Batman. Lets not forget he's been featured in other games as well, Arkham City, Batman:Rise of the Sin Tzu, Teen Titans, Batman: Brave and the Bold etc etc.

As you mentioned he's enjoyed cameos in several cartoon and animated film series. Nightwing has all the starpower and exposure in the world.

His time will come.

The problem isn't so much that he isn't appearing things, as I've mentioned before I'm very happy that he's being used, rather the issue is that he is often relegated to minor roles or made to seem simply as 'an older Robin' rather than a hero in his own right. Arkham City had a Flying Grayson's poster and a passing mention of both Nightwing and Hawkgirl (or was it Huntress?) in an interview tape that could only be accessed by finding a set number of Riddler trophies, he's certainly around somewhere in the story side of the Arkhamverse, but he's not exactly prominent in the universe either. Yeah they gave him a DLC pack, but they didn't give him a voice actor or do anything groundbreaking with it. As I've said before now, Nightwing's apparent omission from the main story in Arkham Asylum and Arkham City is a mystery to me, we know full well that if Bruce were in that kind of trouble Alfred and Babs would call Dick (irrespective of Bruce's wishes I might add) without hesitation, it wouldn't have detracted from the story to have a couple of cutscenes (similar to the one where Tim appears to help Batman) where Dick is around trying to help Bruce.

I think the biggest issue with Nightwing is that people don't really know who he is, they look at him and are immediately drawn to him but without knowing who he is people won't necessarily touch the franchise. For the character to really take off he needs to be used in a successful and popular Batman movie, only with that exposure will more people buy into the character and this would subsequently allow for Nightwing animated series/animated movies etc etc.

I wont argue that Nightwing isn't severely underused, in Justice League Unlimited I was upset to find out they sprang an entire episode within Bludhaven and the only time you catch a hint of Nightwing is a very brief backside shot, knelt on the top of a building. It's also a non-speaking role and he doesn't intervene at all in the story! I haven't finished Arkham City but I've heard from different sources that he's the one tasked with protecting Wayne Manor. Curiously enough, I seem to remember imdb casting a voice actor when the game was announced. I guess there may have been extra ideas involving Nightwing that were scrapped last minute. So many loose ends. -_-

Fellow viner Nathaniel Christopher and I were having a discussion about a similar topic one time. He brought up how puzzling it was Batman writers used so much creative control and their editors basically gave them free reign to do whatever. When it came to Nightwing especially, and other Bat-family cohorts their endeavors were very limited in scope by comparison. It begged the question of whether we thought DC was intentionally holding Nightwing back as a means of never allowing the student to surpass his master. In terms of popularity Robin is so much more a household name than Nightwing is, but I'll argue he's a hell of alot closer today than he was 20 years ago. I was present at the theater when TDKR wrapped up and the credits were rolling. There was so much chatter about John Blake and the ambiguous Nolan ending. It felt great to be a part of the crowd and listen to people's outpours, hearing Nightwing's name tossed around among casuals. It was something special. A month later a small comic book shop was built next to that AMC.

With the advent of the internet and the rise of Generation Z we're witnessing a change in trends. Kids now have wikipedia and comicvine in their hands and follow socialites through twitter; facebook. Aspiring young directors can live out their dreams through youtube. Digital comics exist for those who wish to stay at home and read on their tablet. Our voices as a people are being heard through these various media outlets.. long gone are the days where we were forced to rely on sending letters to DC/Marvel to be featured in a monthly Q&A. The Dick Grayson hype train set off a long time ago and DC knows it. It's time for them to start doing something about it.

#8 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

@LuigiBat said:

@SmoothJammin said:

Don't be so glum chum. In 09 there was a proposed Nightwing pitch by Ki Hyun Ryu, alas it was canned. Probably a good thing to be honest, viewers might never have gotten their precious Young Justice or Korra had the series been greenlit. My point is, can you imagine what kind of pull this character has over fans that even renowned directors take interest and include him in different mediums.He's the star of Young Justice. He's going to be in the game too! The Gotham City Imposters DLC--that game was partially based on him and revolves around a conflict surrounding his time as Batman. Lets not forget he's been featured in other games as well, Arkham City, Batman:Rise of the Sin Tzu, Teen Titans, Batman: Brave and the Bold etc etc.

As you mentioned he's enjoyed cameos in several cartoon and animated film series. Nightwing has all the starpower and exposure in the world.

His time will come.

The problem isn't so much that he isn't appearing things, as I've mentioned before I'm very happy that he's being used, rather the issue is that he is often relegated to minor roles or made to seem simply as 'an older Robin' rather than a hero in his own right. Arkham City had a Flying Grayson's poster and a passing mention of both Nightwing and Hawkgirl (or was it Huntress?) in an interview tape that could only be accessed by finding a set number of Riddler trophies, he's certainly around somewhere in the story side of the Arkhamverse, but he's not exactly prominent in the universe either. Yeah they gave him a DLC pack, but they didn't give him a voice actor or do anything groundbreaking with it. As I've said before now, Nightwing's apparent omission from the main story in Arkham Asylum and Arkham City is a mystery to me, we know full well that if Bruce were in that kind of trouble Alfred and Babs would call Dick (irrespective of Bruce's wishes I might add) without hesitation, it wouldn't have detracted from the story to have a couple of cutscenes (similar to the one where Tim appears to help Batman) where Dick is around trying to help Bruce.

I think the biggest issue with Nightwing is that people don't really know who he is, they look at him and are immediately drawn to him but without knowing who he is people won't necessarily touch the franchise. For the character to really take off he needs to be used in a successful and popular Batman movie, only with that exposure will more people buy into the character and this would subsequently allow for Nightwing animated series/animated movies etc etc.

I wont argue that Nightwing isn't severely underused, in Justice League Unlimited I was upset to find out they sprang an entire episode within Bludhaven and the only time you catch a hint of Nightwing is a very brief backside shot, knelt on the top of a building. It's also a non-speaking role and he doesn't intervene at all in the story! I haven't finished Arkham City but I've heard from different sources that he's the one tasked with protecting Wayne Manor. Curiously enough, I seem to remember imdb casting a voice actor when the game was announced. I guess there may have been extra ideas involving Nightwing that were scrapped last minute. So many loose ends. -_-

Fellow viner Nathaniel Christopher and I were having a discussion about a similar topic one time. He brought up how puzzling it was Batman writers used so much creative control and their editors basically gave them free reign to do whatever. When it came to Nightwing especially, and other Bat-family cohorts their endeavors were very limited in scope by comparison. It begged the question of whether we thought DC was intentionally holding Nightwing back as a means of never allowing the student to surpass his master. In terms of popularity Robin is so much more a household name than Nightwing is, but I'll argue he's a hell of alot closer today than he was 20 years ago. I was present at the theater when TDKR wrapped up and the credits were rolling. There was so much chatter about John Blake and the ambiguous Nolan ending. It felt great to be a part of the crowd and listen to people's outpours, hearing Nightwing's name tossed around among casuals. It was something special. A month later a small comic book shop was built next to that AMC.

With the advent of the internet and the rise of Generation Z we're witnessing a change in trends. Kids now have wikipedia and comicvine in their hands and follow socialites through twitter; facebook. Aspiring young directors can live out their dreams through youtube. Digital comics exist for those who wish to stay at home and read on their tablet. Our voices as a people are being heard through these various media outlets.. long gone are the days where we were forced to rely on sending letters to DC/Marvel to be featured in a monthly Q&A. The Dick Grayson hype train set off a long time ago and DC knows it. It's time for them to start doing something about it.

Well said my friend.

I'm not sure as to whether Nightwing was tasked with protecting the Manor (within the story of the game) because it raises too many questions. Why was he needed to protect the Manor in the first place? Thats a major plot-hole right there IF what you say is true. Interesting that they may have cast a voice actor for the role, I'd wager it was probably back when Paul Dini was still throwing around various ideas for the story and they probably hired someone on the off-chance that he would definitely be included in the game so as to avoid any scheduling conflicts further down the line.

DC have most definitely been holding back certain characters, as I said in another thread Dick, Jason and now Tim all suffer from 'ex-Robin syndrome'. Each one of them will have very inconsistent writing, they might show extreme promise at one point by having a very good team on board only to later have an absolutely abysmal run, it seems like DC builds them up and knocks them down every so often. They ensure there are enough good issues available to keep fans interested but they don't make the series' too good on a consistent basis because they don't want any of them to rival Batman in anyway. Personally I (and many others no doubt) will be very pissed off if they do this to Nightwing in the New 52, they really don't have a leg to stand on if they do proceed to make the character vastly inferior to Batman. DC have said that in the Flashpoint universe Dick has spent a year as Batman, given that he's spent time as Batman they really don't have much excuse if they do get writers to portray him as being massively inferior to Bruce, because he wouldn't have survived as Batman for a year if he was substantially worse than Bruce. I definitely think that in the past DC have been guilty of limiting writer's creative scope with the character, looking back at the previous series of Nightwing comics (the 1996-2009 run) its clear that they were holding the character back. When you look at the villains he faced its clear that most of them would all be classed as 'C-list' by anyone writing Batman, they basically made Nightwing face off against guys (and struggle to do so at times) who would be little challenge to Batman. Aside from Deathstroke and Two-Face (only really used as a villain during the RIP tie-in issues where Batman was absent) most of the villains would be considered worthy of little more than 3-4 panels in a Batman issue (where Bruce would likely beat them down with ease). I still don't think they've quite let writers have total freedom though. When you follow Snyder on Twitter he talks of all these grand and crazy ideas for his work on Batman (and other titles) and it's quite clear that DC said "do whatever you want and we'll print it", whereas when I asked Kyle Higgins if he'd ever cover Dick's transition from Robin to Nightwing he simply said "I really hope so". If he had the same freedoms as Snyder he wouldn't respond like that, he'd probably say how he plans on doing so in the future or something like that. The fact that he has to 'hope' he's able to cover that section of the character's history to me implies that he has to seek permission from DC first.

I really do hope that DC do start to pay attention to the growing number of Nightwing fans, they can't just ignore everyone talking about the character on Twitter.

#9 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin: @LuigiBat: Both of these almost made me cry. lol. Seriously, good thoughts guys. I def think Grayson is on the rise. And I am really super excited to see where his book goes this fall with the Joker and Shiva both entering his domain. I think both stories (espescially the Joker one) could do a lot to elevate Dick's character. That being said, I think the reboot gave DC license to take Batman back to his "young" years. As others have stated, Grayson won't really blow up until Bruce is out of the way unless DC does something really creative and awesome (here's hoping)

#10 Posted by tobiasPUNK (116 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat: What you wrote was exactly my point, you're right. He's always a background character. And seems to always be the last person called upon even though he is Bruce's right hand man and the protector of Bludhaven.

#11 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@tobiasPUNK said:

@LuigiBat: What you wrote was exactly my point, you're right. He's always a background character. And seems to always be the last person called upon even though he is Bruce's right hand man and the protector of Bludhaven.

I've never quite understood why they underuse Dick when there's a fairly big crisis at hand. Hypothetically speaking if these characters existed in real life Bruce would instantly call on Dick to help when the sh*t hits the fan, simply because he's his most experienced deputy and can be trusted to do the job right.

#12 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1687 posts) - - Show Bio

You coined the term my friend. Ex-Robin Syndrome. They never want to make Nightwing too big so that he's seen as Bruce's equal, and part of this presents itself in him being completely absent during major events or given minor roles. However, its the New 52 now. New universe, new day. Dick's had good characterization for a few years now, he's gone through his time as Batman and proven himself. He's now located in Gotham, the center of his family, and its his time to rise up and be the Prince we all know he is. There is no excuse to see Dick treated as anything less than Bruce's Right Hand Man. And as all of us agree Dick's become more popular over the years and has more fans than he used to. I think there are a lot of interesting times in the character's future.

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