Dick Grayson current continuity?

#1 Posted by Slaze (35 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start by saying I am fairly new to comics, starting my collection with a small range of the new 52. I am basically wondering if anyone knows the chronology of Dick Grayson in the current continuity, and I understand nothing has been set in stone regarding what is still relevant in the DCnU but I'd like to do some reading of some of the main storylines for Dick Grayson that people still count as canon. I started by reading Robin: Year One which seemed like a good place to start, I plan on picking up Dark Victory next. I have also ordered a couple of issues of The New Teen Titans 37 & 39 as well as The Judas Contract, however I'm not sure whether or not these are considered canon now. I'm also going to purchase Nightwing Year One. Doeas anyone have any other suggestions on what to read?

#2 Edited by soccersss (537 posts) - - Show Bio

@Slaze:

The Judas Contract is one of my favorite storylines. You'd enjoy it. It has not been clearly specified what is canon yet for Nightwing but we know that he was Batman at one point in time so that means he must have been Nightwing for a while. To be on the safe side I'd recommend you check out Dick Grayson's ongoing series as Nightwing and read as much as you can. The New Teen Titans is also a good place to check out. I'd personally recommend The Terror of Trigon.

#3 Posted by Slaze (35 posts) - - Show Bio

@soccersss said:

@Slaze:

The Judas Contract is one of my favorite storylines. You'd enjoy it. It has not been clearly specified what is canon yet for Nightwing but we know that he was Batman at one point in time so that means he must have been Nightwing for a while. To be on the safe side I'd recommend you check out Dick Grayson's ongoing series as Nightwing and read as much as you can. The New Teen Titans is also a good place to check out. I'd personally recommend The Terror of Trigon.

Yeah, Terror of Trigon and Judas Contract were the two arcs I wanted to read the most; mostly because I had watched their adaptations on the Teen Titans cartoon when I was younger and enjoyed the storylines. Thanks for the reply, I guess all I can do is read all the material and wait for anything to be contradicted in the new continuity.

#4 Posted by soccersss (537 posts) - - Show Bio

@Slaze said:

@soccersss said:

@Slaze:

The Judas Contract is one of my favorite storylines. You'd enjoy it. It has not been clearly specified what is canon yet for Nightwing but we know that he was Batman at one point in time so that means he must have been Nightwing for a while. To be on the safe side I'd recommend you check out Dick Grayson's ongoing series as Nightwing and read as much as you can. The New Teen Titans is also a good place to check out. I'd personally recommend The Terror of Trigon.

Yeah, Terror of Trigon and Judas Contract were the two arcs I wanted to read the most; mostly because I had watched their adaptations on the Teen Titans cartoon when I was younger and enjoyed the storylines. Thanks for the reply, I guess all I can do is read all the material and wait for anything to be contradicted in the new continuity.

Yeah The Teen Titans cartoons adapted those two arcs very well. The original comic versions are even better. Yeah reading all you can would be the best thing to do

#5 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.
#6 Posted by Slaze (35 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.

Thanks for your reply, I'll make sure to pick up a few TPB's from Volume 2. I agree about the Teen Titans, atm I'm reading them purely for their story and not reading it as part of the current continuity.

#7 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Slaze said:

Thanks for your reply, I'll make sure to pick up a few TPB's from Volume 2. I agree about the Teen Titans, atm I'm reading them purely for their story and not reading it as part of the current continuity.

  • Also, Batman crossovers are also cannon.
  • Interactions Between Nightwing and Heroes that aren't from the Bat-Family, should be considered non-cannon until otherwise stated.
  • Volume 2 had some awesome parts, I'm reading it in its totality. ;)
  • Also, yeah Teen Titans is awesome. You do well in reading it.
#8 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.

Woah where was this confirmed? I was under the impression only certain aspects of his previous series were canon. Like as in the previous solo series he was the owner of Haly's circus,something contradicted by this series. And haven't they said the relationship between Dick and Barbara has been retconned out?

#9 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
I'm not seeing how the Nightwing on-going series could possibly be canon in it entirety, seeing that several characters appeared in it whose personal continuity deviates from Dick's own significantly post reboot (Deathstroke or Ravager are both good examples), and the complete lack of Crisis events and their repercussions to Dick's life (Bludhaven bombing during Infinite Crisis, for instance), should also be noticeable.
Moderator
#10 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12268 posts) - - Show Bio

@Slaze: @nightwing91 said:

@ReVamp said:

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.

Woah where was this confirmed? I was under the impression only certain aspects of his previous series were canon. Like as in the previous solo series he was the owner of Haly's circus,something contradicted by this series. And haven't they said the relationship between Dick and Barbara has been retconned out?

I'm pretty sure most of Dick's history was erased to a pretty boring life as Nightwing until he was Bats for a year. His time as Robin is unknown as well because that takes places in the shadows prior to the Action Comics time line. Roy was apart of the Titans because she asks starfire if she remembers any members from the "old team."

#11 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91 said:

@ReVamp said:

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.

Woah where was this confirmed? I was under the impression only certain aspects of his previous series were canon. Like as in the previous solo series he was the owner of Haly's circus,something contradicted by this series. And haven't they said the relationship between Dick and Barbara has been retconned out?

@Morpheus_ said:

I'm not seeing how the Nightwing on-going series could possibly be canon in it entirety, seeing that several characters appeared in it whose personal continuity deviates from Dick's own significantly post reboot (Deathstroke or Ravager are both good examples), and the complete lack of Crisis events and their repercussions to Dick's life (Bludhaven bombing during Infinite Crisis, for instance), should also be noticeable.

Apologies to Slaze. I might not have explained myself as well as I have though.

Most of the events are considered characters:

  • Except of course specific parts of the series which have been retconned such as Dick's ownership of the Haly Circus.
  • Encounters that he has had with other individuals outside the Bat-Family, especfically but not limited to heroes. I'm not sure whether or not he knows Slade post-Revamp, but I'm leaning towards the no.
  • Also, events that happened in the Crises may be canceled out. This is interesting since if Bludhaven wasn't destroyed, it might have never been part of the continuity, which raises red flags. I'm leaning towards the fact that he was in Bludhaven and it may or may not have been destroyed though.
  • Specifically I don't think that Nightwing's and Bab's relationship has been retconned, though it may be possible. We know for sure that their flirtation at Batgirl/Robin seems to have remained the same.
  • The only reason I think that most things are that same is because DC has made it so that the Bat and GL properties have very minor changes compared to other DC properties.
#12 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee: Yes, his age raises red flags as to which team he was a part of.

#13 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

@Slaze: @nightwing91 said:

@ReVamp said:

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.

Woah where was this confirmed? I was under the impression only certain aspects of his previous series were canon. Like as in the previous solo series he was the owner of Haly's circus,something contradicted by this series. And haven't they said the relationship between Dick and Barbara has been retconned out?

I'm pretty sure most of Dick's history was erased to a pretty boring life as Nightwing until he was Bats for a year. His time as Robin is unknown as well because that takes places in the shadows prior to the Action Comics time line. Roy was apart of the Titans because she asks starfire if she remembers any members from the "old team."

no it doesn't.....Nightwing has only been active for 4 years...Action Comics takes place 6 years ago

#14 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Slaze: Coming from the biggest Fanboy on ComicVine:

  • Everything on Nightwing's solo series is considered cannon. That means /nightwing/49-5755/.
  • His Teen Titans time is very much confusing. Roy Harper isn't part of the Titans apparently, but he does know Starfire, which means that he should have been part of the Titans at some point. Figuring out what part is cannon is next to impossible.

there never was a Titans....the originals may or may not have teamed up under a different name at some point though....Roy does mention the other Titans to Starfire in the first issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws though trying to jog her memory...before they do it

#15 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

no it doesn't.....Nightwing has only been active for 4 years...Action Comics takes place 6 years ago

Where is that from? Because I highly doubt that's true.

@danhimself said:

there never was a Titans....the originals may or may not have teamed up under a different name at some point though....Roy does mention the other Titans to Starfire in the first issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws though trying to jog her memory...before they do it

There was. What you're probably misinterperting is the quote that Lobdell said that the Titans had never existed, but he was specifically talking about Tim's Titans, saying they never teamed up.

#16 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself said:

no it doesn't.....Nightwing has only been active for 4 years...Action Comics takes place 6 years ago

Where is that from? Because I highly doubt that's true.

@danhimself said:

there never was a Titans....the originals may or may not have teamed up under a different name at some point though....Roy does mention the other Titans to Starfire in the first issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws though trying to jog her memory...before they do it

There was. What you're probably misinterperting is the quote that Lobdell said that the Titans had never existed, but he was specifically talking about Tim's Titans, saying they never teamed up.

Nightwing #3 First page is a flashback to 5 years ago and Dick is still in the circus

you may be right and they were saying that before the 52 started but I'm pretty sure there was interview just recently where they changed they're answer to this being the first Teen Titans team

#17 Posted by Whisper_ (3464 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Almost positive that Bludhaven has been referenced in the Higgins ongoing.

#18 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

you may be right and they were saying that before the 52 started but I'm pretty sure there was interview just recently where they changed they're answer to this being the first Teen Titans team

I'm positive your misinterpreting the quote, which he later corrected. Not totally certain, but it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

@_Whisper_ said:

Almost positive that Bludhaven has been referenced in the Higgins ongoing.

Yeah, it'd be all kinds of mindf*ck if it hadn't been part of the history. What's actually needed is to know about the current state of the city. I hope he can go back to it, Clancy and Amy are awesome characters.

#19 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12268 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: @ReVamp: It's not physically possible for the entire batman&robin history to have taken place in just five years. That leaves 4 Robins (5 if you count stephanie's time as robin as still cannon) for that crammed time frame. That would mean Dick would have had to become orphaned, trained, fight crime, get angry at bats, become nightwing in one year. Then bats would have to recruit Jason right after, train him, fight crime, travel to the middle east, die. Im assuming he doesn't have much for mourning since two years is already up. Tim jumps in, takes the mantle of robin, bruce says no but then quickly changes his mind (since he only has 3 years left), trains Tim, fights crime, Jason is revived and becomes red hood, bruce dies somehow. Battle of Cowl. Dick becomes bats, Damian becomes Robin, one year goes by. 4 years down. Buce comes back, takes the mantle of bats agian, fights crime, this year is up and we're up to speed with the Batman comics. It just can't happen especially with the current JLA books being made (read the solicit for JL#8, if you haven't, it makes it seem like Bats has been there for the full 5 years.)

With that unimportant ramble which you don't really have to read, I'm pretty sure it's also been stated that Batman and Robin HAVE been working in the shadows, as a myth, long before Superman came into public. Which makes a lot more sense for history.

#20 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee: It doesn't have to be 5 years. Batman goes before the time stamp, 5 years ago is when the first public heroes appeared, which Batman doesn't have to be a part of.

#21 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12268 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: That's exactly what I'm saying. Although in Nightwing it says Dick was at the Circus 5 years ago, it clearly cannot make sense.

#22 Posted by Slaze (35 posts) - - Show Bio

What about Dick's relationship with Superman?

I really wish that DC could be a bit more clear about the reboot, to me the reboot seems kind of pointless if anything that happened already COULD have happened in the new series anyway.

#23 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

@danhimself: @ReVamp: It's not physically possible for the entire batman&robin history to have taken place in just five years. That leaves 4 Robins (5 if you count stephanie's time as robin as still cannon) for that crammed time frame. That would mean Dick would have had to become orphaned, trained, fight crime, get angry at bats, become nightwing in one year. Then bats would have to recruit Jason right after, train him, fight crime, travel to the middle east, die. Im assuming he doesn't have much for mourning since two years is already up. Tim jumps in, takes the mantle of robin, bruce says no but then quickly changes his mind (since he only has 3 years left), trains Tim, fights crime, Jason is revived and becomes red hood, bruce dies somehow. Battle of Cowl. Dick becomes bats, Damian becomes Robin, one year goes by. 4 years down. Buce comes back, takes the mantle of bats agian, fights crime, this year is up and we're up to speed with the Batman comics. It just can't happen especially with the current JLA books being made (read the solicit for JL#8, if you haven't, it makes it seem like Bats has been there for the full 5 years.)

With that unimportant ramble which you don't really have to read, I'm pretty sure it's also been stated that Batman and Robin HAVE been working in the shadows, as a myth, long before Superman came into public. Which makes a lot more sense for history.

they've said that BATMAN was working in the shadows before the Justice League was formed and before Superman first appeared...they never said anything about Robin...and Nightwing #3 makes it impossible for there to have been a Robin before the Justice League

#24 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

also in Red Hood and the Outlaws #4 it says that Jason trained with Batman for 2 years....that means that if Dick's parents died right after the flashback in Nightwing #3 then Dick got around 2 years as Robin before becoming Nightwing, then Jason takes over for 2 years, and Tim becomes Robin almost immediately after Jason's death

#25 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: That's got to be wrong. If 5 years ago there was no Robin and Jason was trained as Robin for 2 years, then that leaves 1 and a half for Tim and Dick each, since we still need Damian era and Battle for the cowl and whatever. Doesn't make sense.

#26 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself: That's got to be wrong. If 5 years ago there was no Robin and Jason was trained as Robin for 2 years, then that leaves 1 and a half for Tim and Dick each, since we still need Damian era and Battle for the cowl and whatever. Doesn't make sense.

Damian's time could easily be condensed to a few months worth of time...leaving 2 years for Dick and a year for Tim

#27 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself: That's got to be wrong. If 5 years ago there was no Robin and Jason was trained as Robin for 2 years, then that leaves 1 and a half for Tim and Dick each, since we still need Damian era and Battle for the cowl and whatever. Doesn't make sense.

Damian's time could easily be condensed to a few months worth of time...leaving 2 years for Dick and a year for Tim

Which makes no sense. Tim less time than Jason?

#28 Posted by danhimself (22693 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself said:

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself: That's got to be wrong. If 5 years ago there was no Robin and Jason was trained as Robin for 2 years, then that leaves 1 and a half for Tim and Dick each, since we still need Damian era and Battle for the cowl and whatever. Doesn't make sense.

Damian's time could easily be condensed to a few months worth of time...leaving 2 years for Dick and a year for Tim

Which makes no sense. Tim less time than Jason?

his time wasn't shorten out of Bruce kicking him out or anything...remember Bruce died...that's what caused Tim to stop being Robin

#29 Posted by SoA (5135 posts) - - Show Bio

@Slaze: after the titans , you can read the outsiders. its like the grown-up version of the titans

#30 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself said:

@ReVamp said:

@danhimself: That's got to be wrong. If 5 years ago there was no Robin and Jason was trained as Robin for 2 years, then that leaves 1 and a half for Tim and Dick each, since we still need Damian era and Battle for the cowl and whatever. Doesn't make sense.

Damian's time could easily be condensed to a few months worth of time...leaving 2 years for Dick and a year for Tim

Which makes no sense. Tim less time than Jason?

his time wasn't shorten out of Bruce kicking him out or anything...remember Bruce died...that's what caused Tim to stop being Robin

I meant that Tim is getting less time with Bats than Jason.

#31 Posted by SmoothJammin (2342 posts) - - Show Bio

In my own head canon nothing has changed as far as his upbringing goes with batman in the new 52. I disagree with whoever said NW had a boring life up until batman stint. Actually things were looking up when Tomasi took over the title. He had his moments in different series/crossovers although I can't argue his ongoing was lackluster often times depending on the writer. It's kind of hard to explain to someone where exactly to start with Dick because he's constantly evolved as a character. My favorite interpretation is of course the wolfman/perez version. I truly believe during that era he was on top of the world, rivaling the likes of superman and batman in popularity.

#32 Posted by SmoothJammin (2342 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick deserves it the most. Time with Batman I mean.

#33 Edited by Slaze (35 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for the replies, I agree it is difficult for me as a new reader to know where to start with Dick. It is kind of annoying that Dick's time as Robin with Batman seems to have been short and fairly overlooked, it's also fairly difficult (and expensive) to find decent editions or omnibuses of the New Teen Titans. It would be nice for Dick's time as Robin to be revisited again, though I doubt that will happen anytime soon because of the confusion it'd cause. As for his time as Nightwing it's pretty difficult to link the pre-flashpoint to the current series as his relationship with Barbara is confirmed(?) to have been retconned...

#34 Posted by SmoothJammin (2342 posts) - - Show Bio

It's all effed up. How is DC going to tell us not to worry about continuity when contradictions like this occur so frequently in the new 52? They have no clue how to explain the muck up

#35 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1683 posts) - - Show Bio

Main point lol DC screwed up. I think that flashback in Nightwing is going to be retconned eventually as it truly does not make sense to have the history of Dick, Jason, Tim and Damien as Robin put into 5 years. DC didn't plan this out well at all.

#36 Posted by SmoothJammin (2342 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: So weird too because both Batman and Nightwing take place during the same time but Dick in NW looks huge compared to his wiry counterpart over in Batman. Nothing makes a lick of sense. Tony Daniel had an interview where he mistakedly cited Detective comics as having occured 5 years in the past, but after being quoted in a newsletter and upon reading it he later retracted his statement. So who are we supposed to believe. Are we all just being swindled or are things going to go back to the way they were soon. It's frustrating from a fans perspective

#37 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: So weird too because both Batman and Nightwing take place during the same time but Dick in NW looks huge compared to his wiry counterpart over in Batman. Nothing makes a lick of sense. Tony Daniel had an interview where he mistakedly cited Detective comics as having occured 5 years in the past, but after being quoted in a newsletter and upon reading it he later retracted his statement. So who are we supposed to believe. Are we all just being swindled or are things going to go back to the way they were soon. It's frustrating from a fans perspective

Yeah... That Nightwing thing is probably wrong. Besides, he's like what, 11 there? 5 years would mean that he's 16 now, which ain't really the truth...

#38 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1683 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@SmoothJammin said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: So weird too because both Batman and Nightwing take place during the same time but Dick in NW looks huge compared to his wiry counterpart over in Batman. Nothing makes a lick of sense. Tony Daniel had an interview where he mistakedly cited Detective comics as having occured 5 years in the past, but after being quoted in a newsletter and upon reading it he later retracted his statement. So who are we supposed to believe. Are we all just being swindled or are things going to go back to the way they were soon. It's frustrating from a fans perspective

Yeah... That Nightwing thing is probably wrong. Besides, he's like what, 11 there? 5 years would mean that he's 16 now, which ain't really the truth...

Exactly. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever for it to have only been 5 years. A retcon's inevitable as far as i'm concerned. lol they just started and messed up from the very start.

#39 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Which is kinda sad, but what can you do...

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