Can Nightwing surpass Batman?

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#101 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

QFT @Gambler! preach on brotha! nobody is taking the reigns from mighty Bruce!

#102 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
No
#103 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8779 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nighthunter said:

-More agile

Only said to be, no evidence on panel. Batman's feat's of agility are superior.

@Nighthunter said:

almost as his level

Not even close, there are at least half a dozen martial artist closer to Bat's level then Nightwing

@Nighthunter said:

-Better Leader

False. Batman is a better leader

@Nighthunter said:

-More natural warrior

Hell no, where can you even get that impression

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#104 Posted by ManMartianhunter (33 posts) - - Show Bio

it sounds like blasphemy but yea

#105 Posted by Red_Jack (285 posts) - - Show Bio

My understanding of Nightwing "surpassing" Batman is, can he take over the mantle and do a better job of it.

The answer would ultimately be more no than yes, based on how he has been depicted in his solo series.

The one thing that Dick Grayson has never been shown to do is problem solve and show great detective skills on the same level as Bruce Wayne. It's a natural talent that Bruce Wayne have in any circumstance.

The only thing Nightwing will ultimately surpass Batman in is connections and respect from allies. Batman has always been a very cold, fierce and stern loner. Nightwing has always been more humble and lighthearted. That alone will become a huge benefit in time.

But Batman has been written so well he'd be impossible to surpass, really.

#106 Posted by Nightwingdg (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing isn't Batman. Just like Batman isn't Wolverine. Nightwing and Batman have 2 totally different fighting styles. yeah, yeah, yeah, Batman trained him, blah blah blah. Dick Grayson is physically a better fighter and natural athlete/acrobat. I will always think Nightwing is superior to Batman. Batman is obviously more popular, so if you think will Nightwing ever surpass Batman in Popularity then that's a no. I like Nightwing because I relate more to the character, not because he's more popular.

#107 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

NOTE THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR NIGHTWING ISSUE 0

In Nightwing 0 Dick goes out to help Batman against Lady Shiva, his first ever outing as Robin. Shiva comments that Dick has immense potential and that Batman chose his protege wisely. But she then says that Dick chose his partner poorly, stating that she sees far more for Dick "beyond his shadow".

99% of the time when people say Dick can't surpass Bruce they are referring to pre-Flashpoint incarnations of the characters in question. Who are we to say that in the new universe Dick won't go on to surpass Bruce at some point? Afterall, he only started training to be Robin aged 16, is currently 21 (or would he be 22 now given he was 21 at the start of the New 52?) and just come off a year as Batman, so he technically donned the cowl aged 20 and evidently did a good job (he'd be dead otherwise). Now if Dick can survive as Batman for a year aged 20 and having only begun to train aged 16 then it seems logical that he would be able to surpass Bruce in the future.

#108 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Nighthunter said:

-More agile

Only said to be, no evidence on panel. Batman's feat's of agility are superior.

@Nighthunter said:

almost as his level

Not even close, there are at least half a dozen martial artist closer to Bat's level then Nightwing

@Nighthunter said:

-Better Leader

False. Batman is a better leader

@Nighthunter said:

-More natural warrior

Hell no, where can you even get that impression

1) Please explain what led you to that conclusion.

2) DC has not done a good job defining the totem pole for its martial artists. Perhaps Snyder and Higgins will do a better job of establishing how close Batman and Nightwing are in skill level.

3) I've always felt Batman is the better overall planner. When heroes, especially the younger ones, need counsel, they turn to Dick. Nightwing led the Titans for longer than any Batman-led incarnation of the Justice League or Outsiders. There are more examples of Dick leading teams into battle than with Batman. He's the better leader, better at rallying others into action, better at commanding respect (and not just fear). But in the name of fairness, please explain your answer.

4) I can get behind "more natural athlete" since it does not overlap with "more accomplished warrior". Batman is indubitably the more experienced and better trained fighter. Dick, on the other hand, has always been the more talented athlete. "Batman: Dark Victory" and "All-Star Batman & Robin", for all their triumphs and faults, agreed on that much. His physicality and attitude remind me of Bruce Lee - more free-form and fluid than his peers or mentor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2YDvoFYoNI

What if Higgins (by Shiva) is right that Batman is the one holding Dick back? What if Dick needs a sensei better-equipped to hone Dick's natural attributes? Someone like I Ching or Lady Shiva?

On a related note: Jason has basically admitted to training in the hopes of becoming a murderous Batman. Tim is almost never without his bô, and without it he fights in a similar fashion to Bruce. Is it unreasonable to suggest that after years of developing his own style, Dick needs a different teacher to ascend to the next tier?

#109 Posted by LightningTiger2190 (106 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the possibility is there but it will never come to fruition. I think All the robins have the potential to do so as a matter of fact. Dick being a supperior athlete mean that he can be a better fighter bruce if we rely purely on physicality but there is also the mind aspect. They both fight very differently anyway. Batman is a better strategist when leading but that is not only what makes a good leader. He fails in the area of inspiring his soldiers at least pre-R.I.P. The problem is that the new 52 batman is a batman who has moved on from his parents death and who is more open to working with others. That is a more dangerous batman imo. We have t remember we are comparing a 21-23 year old Nightwing with a 30 year old bruce(I'm going to say mentally for now since i don't know if his lazarus dip is still cannon. I think it is simply because Bruce would be far older that everyone in the justice league. If I was a 30 year old male I would have a problem with being equal with a 23 year old.) Nightwing at 21-23 >>>>>>Bruce at the same age.

#110 Posted by NWfanboy77 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Nightwing has the potential to surpass Batman, but DC wont allow Bruce to be replaced. Bruce Wayne is one of the most celebrated and memorable characters in comic book history. He wont be replaced.

#111 Posted by daviddavid7 (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe; he's already as good a fighter as Batman, and he's faster than him. But I think that he needs his own Bat-mobile.

#112 Posted by nmiller1939 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely...well, in theory. If DC decided that, starting tomorrow, characters would progress at a rate matching our time, ten (maybe fifteen) years from now, Dick would be the top dog of the DCU. Seriously, kid's near or surpasses Batman in everything, and he's 21. By the time he's thirty, he'll have been doing this for half of his life, will certainly have surpassed 30 year old Bruce (seriously, unless Dick does not improve at all in ten years, it is going to happen), and is the unquestionable leader of his generation (okay, maybe not in the nu52, but I'd bet his leadership skill will surface again soon enough). Seriously, at least old DCU, he was Bruce's protege, and the closest thing to Clark's protege in his generation. He's the next to take the reins of the DCU...but it will never happen.

#113 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he ever will.

#114 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

@daviddavid7 said:

Maybe; he's already as good a fighter as Batman, and he's faster than him. But I think that he needs his own Bat-mobile.

The Nightbird :D

#115 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the question here is "How often do major comic corporations take risks?"

#116 Posted by PurpleCandy (773 posts) - - Show Bio

If by Batman you mean Bruce Wayne, then yes when he turns like 90 years old.

#117 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

It's possible

He has the benefit of Batman's training, which he was able to achieve at a much younger age as he himself did not have to earn and develop it. It would take a change in his level of commitment to improving himself and not getting laid, so I would say unlikely but possible.

#118 Posted by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

IF batman does get old and retire (which won't ever happen, at least no time now) then NW should be his successor. Typically the person to take over should use all the skill from the master and IMPROVE it.

#119 Posted by BlackWind (5998 posts) - - Show Bio

In some ways, he has.

#120 Posted by NyghtMare (403 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with my bias, seeing as how Nightwing is my all time favorite character, I really don't see him passing Bruce. Bruce just has that X factor that nobody else does. Dick has him beat in several area like acrobatics and agility, but other than that, Bruce just outclasses him and I don't see it ever changing.

#121 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

Again I always wonder what exactly what surpassing another hero means, but if we look at it in terms of Barry Allen and Wally West then yes, Nightwing can surpass Batman.

#122 Posted by Dernman (14899 posts) - - Show Bio

No people have limits they cannot go beyond and Nightwings limits are just not as high as Batman.

#123 Posted by Onemoreposter (4006 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

No people have limits they cannot go beyond and Nightwings limits are just not as high as Batman.

Good way to put it. Batman will always beat Dick.....

...Grayson.....

#124 Posted by geoff2005 (206 posts) - - Show Bio

aslong as batman has prep he can never

#125 Edited by utkanflash (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nighthunter said:

Dreadnaught says:

"He will only surpass batman when batman becomes a very very old man."

I'm not totally sure

NW is:

-More agile

-Way Younger and almost as his level

-Better Leader

-More natural warrior

And Batman is always saying that NW is surpassing him (at least since Donna's wedding)

more agile cuz Bruce most brutal

Younger of course

Better Leader ?!?!?!? really... Leadership divide 2 basement

First type: Realistic, take care of his group or society and take hard decisions (basiclly)

Second one : he listen everyone, so emotional and firendly ,

A Group have this two LEader type... That is awesome LEadership..But they seperate Then the realistic most important for group... And Emotional, Spirit leader down to second in command

Nightwing such a good firend and person.. not a Better Leader..Bruce Not better firend or more psychological healthy person ..But he is Better Leader than Nightwing

More Natural Warrior ?!? Really.. He is tranier and master and mentor is Bruce already... And he is amazing acrobat..yes he has a good potential about warrior stuff yes...but.... He is not more...maybe equal but not more...

And they are Brothers ... not enemy... why suprass him, what for ?!? ..and why he is trying to bein Batman ?!?... He is Nightwing and awesome with this....

And Batman for his job too.... This is over... (Sorry for my mistakes and grammar)

#126 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

no and i doubt stingy arrogant batman would even let him be his equal.

#127 Posted by SUNMAN (7215 posts) - - Show Bio

can he..................yes. It's totally possible.

will he................. no, there is no chance of that, and Battle for the Cowl made that abundantly clear. As much as I enjoyed Dick's tenure as Batman. The whole notion that Gotham....... no the DC Universe needed a Batman and Dick couldn't simply do what he did as Nightwing was really contrived. Still DC wouldn't allow that for a few reasons, which we should all be aware of.

I'll say it again. DC's never going to let Dick surpass Batman the way mainstream comics are nowadays. Batman/Bruce Wayne is beyond A list and DC won't be taking any steps to change that up for the foreseeable future.

#128 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce Wayn Batman - thats how it is...you dont for example see another person as Spider-Man right? its always peter parker...

#129 Posted by Telcalipoca (957 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

Bruce Wayn Batman - thats how it is...you dont for example see another person as Spider-Man right? its always peter parker...

ultimate spiderman superior spiderman

#130 Posted by sinestro_GL (3122 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

Dick is too emotional.

#131 Posted by Nightwingdg (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinestro_GL: Though "Cry Baby" Bruce can't get over the murder of his parents. Who's more emotional?

#132 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

@Telcalipoca said:

ultimate spiderman superior spiderman

cool.

#133 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

.@sinestro_GL said:

No.

Dick is too emotional.

What the fudge? How bout you tell Bruce to go get his yeast infection checked out. Last I heard, it's Catwoman who wears the pants in the relationship.

#134 Edited by utkanflash (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@utkanflash said:

@Nighthunter said:

Dreadnaught says:

"He will only surpass batman when batman becomes a very very old man."

I'm not totally sure

NW is:

-More agile

-Way Younger and almost as his level

-Better Leader

-More natural warrior

And Batman is always saying that NW is surpassing him (at least since Donna's wedding)

more agile cuz Bruce most brutal

Younger of course

Better Leader ?!?!?!? really... Leadership divide 2 basement

First type: Realistic, take care of his group or society and take hard decisions (basiclly)

Second one : he listen everyone, so emotional and firendly ,

A Group have this two LEader type... That is awesome LEadership..But they seperate Then the realistic most important for group... And Emotional, Spirit leader down to second in command

Nightwing such a good firend and person.. not a Better Leader..Bruce Not better firend or more psychological healthy person ..But he is Better Leader than Nightwing

More Natural Warrior ?!? Really.. He is tranier and master and mentor is Bruce already... And he is amazing acrobat..yes he has a good potential about warrior stuff yes...but.... He is not more...maybe equal but not more...

And they are Brothers ... not enemy... why suprass him, what for ?!? ..and why he is trying to bein Batman ?!?... He is Nightwing and awesome with this....

And Batman for his job too.... This is over... (Sorry for my mistakes and grammar)

@Nightwingdg said:

@sinestro_GL: Though "Cry Baby" Bruce can't get over the murder of his parents. Who's more emotional?

just this... his most weak spot.. And no one can blame him for that... Dick's case: His parents death show like accident..Sabotage I mean look like not directly..Dick dont know wht hppned.. And am ı wrong but Dick bigger then 8 ı guess. in his parents death's scenario... I love both..ı love it they are so different then the other... Let this thing... Nightwing is nightwing..And bats is bats....

Ridiclous comment.. He is lost his parents in 8. on his eyes... Come on.. Dick more joyefull and friendly.. Bat's more serious and kinda sick.... Bruce more bourgeois more entellectual.. He is pain and memories more melancholic for writers.... Grayson more child, he is an acrobat and traveler cuz his family work in a Circus.... He kinda foregner country boy...

Bat's case and stlye more literate.. Grayson's kinda fordable.... They are good as with themselfs OK ?!? ... let it out...

#135 Posted by sinestro_GL (3122 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nightwingdg said:

@sinestro_GL: Though "Cry Baby" Bruce can't get over the murder of his parents. Who's more emotional?

Being traumatised and being emotional aren't exactly the same thing...

...and it's actually pretty cruel of you to call Bruce a "cry-baby" after seeing his own parents getting shot right in front of him

#136 Posted by Nightwing_Beyond (153 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel that Nightwing has surpassed his mentor as a leader and as a hand to hand combatant (By a small margin) while Batman has the edge in intelligence and detective skills. I feel that Batman isn't as much of a brawler as Nightwing is. Most of Batman's fights usually have him take down foes quickly and from the shadows while Nightwing jumps into the spotlight and handles things head on. To be fair though, I think Dick's time as Batman is what made him reach higher levels than Bruce in any of the previously mentioned fields. In the end, I think they'll reach a point where both stand as equals together as the ultimate dynamic duo.

#137 Posted by Imperius_Rex (452 posts) - - Show Bio

If dc gives him a chance, I don't see dc putting Nightwings growth in front of their cash cow.

#138 Posted by Teerack (5728 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick is still normal and mental healthy so no.

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#139 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20120 posts) - - Show Bio

It is possible, but he would have to undergo a lot more diverse training to improve both his intellect and fighting prowess.

#140 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

Can we actually try to define what we mean by Dick surpassing Bruce? Do we mean be a better hero, and if so how exactly is something like that judged? Do we mean a better detective? A better crime fighter? A better martial artist? A better leader? The most committed?

#141 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading Batman R.I.P. by GMorrison, Nightwing has a lot to live up to to surpass the Batman.

#142 Edited by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

Can we actually try to define what we mean by Dick surpassing Bruce? Do we mean be a better hero, and if so how exactly is something like that judged? Do we mean a better detective? A better crime fighter? A better martial artist? A better leader? The most committed?

Exactly. This question needs a clear criteria.

EDIT: Nightwing (Earth-16) doesn't appear to have this stigma of "lesser". He and Batman are equals.

#143 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe in eslworld book

#144 Edited by DB150 (53 posts) - - Show Bio

If Dick can kick supermans ass then I will admit he has surpassed batman (Bruce wayne I mean) in everyway

#145 Posted by Captainamerica119 (200 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly like Nightwing more than Batman

#146 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Surpass in what regard? As a superhero overall? In reputation?

Much as I like Nightwing, I don't think he'll ever be a more popular and more reputable hero than Bats.

#147 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

Can he beat him in some aspects like say fighting and acrobatics? Yes, he is better then Bruce in acrobatics and about just as good a fighter.

He will probably never be a better detective but could be a better hero. At least used to be a better team player

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