Blockbuster's murder

#1 Posted by Croaker (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Has that storyline been revisited for some sort of conclusion? It's clear he nearly suffered a breakdown after he allowed him to be murdered (with Tarantula raping him after that and all). He broke the one rule his mentor and father instructed him not to break. That's some heavy shit right there.

#2 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

He didn't break the rule,he didn't kill him he chose not to save him.Bruce himself said he could forgive him,and there was a difference in killing and refusing to save him. Now after his breakdown his and tarantula left the he city and went to Gotham for the gang war. After that he batman told him he could forgive him for not saving blockbuster he then goes back to bludhaven and turns tarantula in for he murder of red horn and blockbuster and attempts to turn himself into his former partner Amy but she refuses believing Bludhaven needs Nightwing. This is he general flow of the plot and it's been awhile since ive read his previous solo series so I don't have issue numbers to give.

#3 Edited by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Yech. Wasn't that Devin Grayson's run? Anyways... Nightwing in those issues was so fed up with Blockbusters antics, all of the people he knew were getting hurt and he felt responsible. So when tarantula rolled by and suggested remedying everything by offing Desmond, thereby eliminating his deathgrip and police corruption plaguing the city, Dick saw no other way out. There have been instances if I recall correctly where Bruce has slipped up and allowed criminals to die. I wouldn't call either of those breaking the rule, but Dick has killed. Make no mistake about it. It's part of why I like him to begin with. He's willing to go a little further than Bruce because he's not borderline insane. When he lets his emotions get the best of him he can be just as wicked as Jason Todd.

#4 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin: Well said.

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#5 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: Been a Grayson fan for as long as I can remember. For whatever reason I was never able to identify with Batman as a kid. In TNBA when Robin finally quit and became Nightwing I became a devout follower. Got his action figure and everything. My friends always thought I was crazy, not following the batman trend and all. Nothing wrong with having different taste. Spice is the variety of life :)

#6 Posted by k4tzm4n (38889 posts) - - Show Bio

Blockbuster under Dixon = a powerhouse.

Blockbuster under Grayson = cool, but major physical downgrade.

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#7 Edited by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Dixon made him into a free spirited jock, which was cool at first. But then you look at stuff Dixon was doing over in the Robin series with Tim Drake and wonder, why the hell can't Nightwing get the same treatment? Dick ran to Babs for ALL the answers. How many times did we hear "Bonehead move Grayson" before it became repetitive and annoying. Constantly getting clubbed on the back of the head by mooks.. and Higgins plans to emulate this guys work apparently. :(

Devin Grayson turned Nightwing into a supporting character of his own series. A lame daredevil wannabe, and a prop for enhancing Tarantula. The crossovers really hurt him too. If he protects his own city why does Batman insist on calling him back for missions he should be handling himself(no mans land/blackgate prison riot) and war games *shudder*. Reading Teen Titans: Games the other night made me realize just how awesome a character Dick Grayson was back in the day when writers treated him with respect. Since that time he's lost some prestige. Higgins, you've got a major chip on your shoulders. Don't fk it up!

#8 Edited by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@SmoothJammin: I actually have to disagree with you on the crossover issue, since Bludhaven's first appeared they emphasized it's proximity to Gotham. And then he has always been extremely loyal to Bruce, so naturally anytime he needs him it makes sense he would come running.
 
And the whole leaving his city unprotected to go help Bruce isn't anything new, in JLA/Titans he fought the League and was risking the fate of the world just on the off chance Cyborg could be helped. He's not one to abandon his family or friends when they need him,especially since Gotham was and is his home.(Granted though JLA/Titans was written by Devin Grayson.)
 
@k4tzm4n: So true if he could have blood drawn by Grayson and so easily killed he had a massive physical downgrade. I mean at one point he faced down a squad of armed Air Force soldiers without even blinking.And having that building collapse on him.
#9 Posted by Croaker (296 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91 said:

He didn't break the rule,he didn't kill him he chose not to save him.Bruce himself said he could forgive him,and there was a difference in killing and refusing to save him.

To Batman/Bruce, allowing to die and killing have meant the same thing, at least in the past. Just think of all the times he has saved people like Joker from certain death. So that's kind of..I don't know, suprising.

#10 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@Croaker: Generally he held Jean-Paul Valley to a higher standard(granted he was wearing the mantle) then fired Huntress from the JLA, consistently saved criminals from violent vigilantes. So I agree it was surprising he was so easily able to forgive him.

The only real reasons I can see for it was the events of Infinite Crisis were coming around and he felt guilt over the Omacs murdering Metas. Atleast I think he told him around Infinite Crisis my Nightwing comics have been neglected so my timeline is a little fuzzy.

#11 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

Yech. Wasn't that Devin Grayson's run? Anyways... Nightwing in those issues was so fed up with Blockbusters antics, all of the people he knew were getting hurt and he felt responsible. So when tarantula rolled by and suggested remedying everything by offing Desmond, thereby eliminating his deathgrip and police corruption plaguing the city, Dick saw no other way out. There have been instances if I recall correctly where Bruce has slipped up and allowed criminals to die. I wouldn't call either of those breaking the rule, but Dick has killed. Make no mistake about it. It's part of why I like him to begin with. He's willing to go a little further than Bruce because he's not borderline insane. When he lets his emotions get the best of him he can be just as wicked as Jason Todd.

Hate to be reviving a Necro Thread, but I'm curious as to what particular instances you're referring to (when Grayson has outright killed other humans)

#12 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@SmoothJammin said:

Yech. Wasn't that Devin Grayson's run? Anyways... Nightwing in those issues was so fed up with Blockbusters antics, all of the people he knew were getting hurt and he felt responsible. So when tarantula rolled by and suggested remedying everything by offing Desmond, thereby eliminating his deathgrip and police corruption plaguing the city, Dick saw no other way out. There have been instances if I recall correctly where Bruce has slipped up and allowed criminals to die. I wouldn't call either of those breaking the rule, but Dick has killed. Make no mistake about it. It's part of why I like him to begin with. He's willing to go a little further than Bruce because he's not borderline insane. When he lets his emotions get the best of him he can be just as wicked as Jason Todd.

Hate to be reviving a Necro Thread, but I'm curious as to what particular instances you're referring to (when Grayson has outright killed other humans)

During the Joker's Last Laugh he physically beat the Joker to death after he believed Tim Drake to have been killed. However Batman revived him so Dick wouldn't have murder on his hands, however Dick still felt he had killed.

#13 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91 said:

During the Joker's Last Laugh he physically beat the Joker to death after he believed Tim Drake to have been killed. However Batman revived him so Dick wouldn't have murder on his hands, however Dick still felt he had killed.

Don't matter man, Dick still didn't kill him, even though he went for sometime thinking that he did kill him. Also, Smooth claimed that Grayson would kill and that was a very specific case in which he went completely batsh*t crazy (pun not intended) and beat Joker senseless. The effects were seen lastingly on Grayson, so much so that he refused to talk to anyone, even Barbara who tried to contact him multiple times.

#14 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Oh I know Dick wouldn't kill but I was answering the question of when he did kill(and that's the only time). And technically he did kill him it was a clinical death, he was just revived. While he did kill him, he also didn't.

#15 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91 said:

@ReVamp: Oh I know Dick wouldn't kill but I was answering the question of when he did kill(and that's the only time). And technically he did kill him it was a clinical death, he was just revived. While he did kill him, he also didn't.

He experienced killing him, yes, but he didn't actually kill him because the Joker didn't remain dead.

#16 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@nightwing91 said:

@ReVamp: Oh I know Dick wouldn't kill but I was answering the question of when he did kill(and that's the only time). And technically he did kill him it was a clinical death, he was just revived. While he did kill him, he also didn't.

He experienced killing him, yes, but he didn't actually kill him because the Joker didn't remain dead.

I know it was only for several minutes, but that's a clinical death. And it's the same thing Dick isn't a killer, because Joker was only dead for several minutes.

#17 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91: I'm not sure whether you're agreeing with me or not?

#18 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@nightwing91: I'm not sure whether you're agreeing with me or not?

I am.

#19 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightwing91: I'm glad we agree. It just doesn't make sense to say he's willing to kill, when Batman himself was pushed to similar levels during Hush and it wasn't even for someone he was in regular contact with anymore.

#20 Posted by nightwing91 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@nightwing91: I'm glad we agree. It just doesn't make sense to say he's willing to kill, when Batman himself was pushed to similar levels during Hush and it wasn't even for someone he was in regular contact with anymore.

I completely agree with you, it's not fair or accurate to say he's willing to kill.

#21 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Very well then.

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