A spiderman/dick grayson (new 52) comparison

#1 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically in this,you have to post scans of new 52 dick grayson feats in these Categories:

Strength-I Think that dick grayson has the strength of a 20 year old with or without his suit,i mean seriously.A teenage girl was able to lift a 3,000 pound car off of her father.Spiderman can lift an entire segment of a building.AT LEAST have the suit add tons to his strength that can help him in his agility as well.I really don't give a f&^% what anyone has to say,maybe his suit increases his strength to 25,000 pounds(his suit),i don't care really.In the new 52 it is HIGHLY possible seeing the waynetech technology and extreme strength enhancements in batmans suit,nightwing should/most likely would have it as well.AND it would greatly increase his speed and his jumps for greater agility

Speed-Yup

Endurance-Spiderman has awesome endurance feats

Agility- I always hear about his agility and am never really surprised,his moves are always things that anyone can do,yet spiderman can easily do amazing twists and launches right through a person like sandmans attacks or in high speed traffic

Other-miscellaneous

I am sorta thinking that nightwing (new 52 of course) is a bit weak.I love new 52,but in all honesty he just seems to be so,average and average/non-unique.

Also please don't give me any crap or explanation,basically this is for people who want to post scans,and the respect thread doesn't even have scans that fascinate me in any of the criteria.

#2 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9193 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: I always compared Nightwing and Spiderman in agility,because Grayson's agility is far from human level...like he jumped from a building into a speeding train,without being harmed

#3 Posted by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: COOL,do you have any more scans,like agility wise and others....

i think this is one because it still shows,well lack of agility and spiderman like evasive moves,but he did catch a train and dodge a guys attacks...things like that and above are what i want to see more of (scans-wise)

#4 Posted by BlueArrow (256 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: @matchesmalone21:

I see him as about equal to dare devil, skill, detective, and athletics wise, just without the sonic powers.

And him not being superhuman is part of the fun. When he fights SUPERvillians, he has to be tactical to beat them like spider-man (mostly) does. He cant just charge in and he doesn't carry a plethora of crazy gadgets like Batman does for any situation. He really has to think on his feat and uses his environment.

#5 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueArrow: well for him to be the greatest acrobatic on the earth,i expect him to pass jack hawksmoor by a millennia with ease. I at least wanted him to be a spiderman level in acrobatics at most.His suit will increase his strength like batmans but to a lower extent,so about 15,000 pounds.Which will help him fight metahumans and is highly possible in the new 52 and will especially help him in speed and acrobatics and his suit to,of course,increase his durability,that kinda goes without saying.....and all of these are highly possible in the new 52.

that is the way that i see nightwing...especially being a close batman type character.

#6 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9193 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: Anothe dodging Saiko missils (Saiko is capable to hit, Grayson,because he's a metahuman) and the other scan,Dick showing his agility without the Batrope

#7 Posted by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21: well actually the only reason saiko hit him was because he was off guard,but did you see how he threw saiko several feet through crates AND tear down the roof.I am betting his suit is aiding him

#8 Posted by lilcraig92 (80 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9193 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: here is

@BlueArrow: Agreed,because I like more no-superhuman characters,but he does thing that put him above human level.....

Like despite being bleed,he is stil capable to jump or despite Saiko being more faster and agile (as show in the last scan),Dick is capable to reach and hit in seconds

#10 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

Strength-I Think that dick grayson has the strength of a 20 year old with or without his suit,i mean seriously.A teenage girl was able to lift a 3,000 pound car off of her father.Spiderman can lift an entire segment of a building.AT LEAST have the suit add tons to his strength that can help him in his agility as well.I really don't give a f&^% what anyone has to say,maybe his suit increases his strength to 25,000 pounds(his suit),i don't care really.In the new 52 it is HIGHLY possible seeing the waynetech technology and extreme strength enhancements in batmans suit,nightwing should/most likely would have it as well.AND it would greatly increase his speed and his jumps for greater agility

Endurance-Spiderman has awesome endurance feats

Agility- I always hear about his agility and am never really surprised,his moves are always things that anyone can do,yet spiderman can easily do amazing twists and launches right through a person like sandmans attacks or in high speed traffic

Also please don't give me any crap or explanation,basically this is for people who want to post scans,and the respect thread doesn't even have scans that fascinate me in any of the criteria.

What are you even saying? Like, in all seriousness? Course language aside, this is what I was able to surmise:

A) You want Nightwing to gain a 12.5 ton power-augmenting suit. If Dick is anything like Bruce, he'll avoid artificial enhancements until they're absolutely neccessary. Bruce doesn't patrol Gotham in the Batwrath armor or the Insider suit, and any "enhancements" in the standard Bat-suit are from writer's license and comicbook physical.

B) You consider Nightwing subpar. Dick is a human, albiet peak human, but a human without any biological alterations. If anything, he's pretty high-end for strength and agility feats, not weak. Its declared that he is the most agile human in the DCU, the majority of his showings are not easily replicated by others.

C) You're comparing a 20+ ton mutate with pre-cognition to a peak human. That doesn't work out. Reflexively, Spider-Man has a superpower. Punches and injuries that Spider-Man could tank would kill Nightwing in an instant in most cases. If a metahuman doesn't have higher stats than a lesser person, comics will have reached a sad state.

D) Basically, you're implying that Dick should be made into DC's copy of Spider-Man. No.

#11 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9193 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcraig92: i saw the feats,(and since they were pre new 52,being weaker than the new 52 ones),and they were exactly what i was looking for,these scans show that he can hit with what i said,10,000 pounds.ESPECIALLY since he and batman do non meta human things.

and I never said i wanted him with powers,i was just saying how he doesn't really do anything.

But seeing how batman's suit enhances his strength to like thousands,even surpassing the talons and improving his speed and agility,i think Nightwing might have the same thing but to a lesser extent.And seeing the scans i would say 10,000 lbs at the most.And nobody give me crap saying i am overexaggerating,or overpowering,or that is for superhumans.Because he and batman clearly do inhuman things.

EDIT:Oh i also see a scan of him knocking a giant demon who has super strength down and causing him pain.

#13 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@cameron83 said:

Strength-I Think that dick grayson has the strength of a 20 year old with or without his suit,i mean seriously.A teenage girl was able to lift a 3,000 pound car off of her father.Spiderman can lift an entire segment of a building.AT LEAST have the suit add tons to his strength that can help him in his agility as well.I really don't give a f&^% what anyone has to say,maybe his suit increases his strength to 25,000 pounds(his suit),i don't care really.In the new 52 it is HIGHLY possible seeing the waynetech technology and extreme strength enhancements in batmans suit,nightwing should/most likely would have it as well.AND it would greatly increase his speed and his jumps for greater agility

Endurance-Spiderman has awesome endurance feats

Agility- I always hear about his agility and am never really surprised,his moves are always things that anyone can do,yet spiderman can easily do amazing twists and launches right through a person like sandmans attacks or in high speed traffic

Also please don't give me any crap or explanation,basically this is for people who want to post scans,and the respect thread doesn't even have scans that fascinate me in any of the criteria.

What are you even saying? Like, in all seriousness? Course language aside, this is what I was able to surmise:

A) You want Nightwing to gain a 12.5 ton power-augmenting suit. If Dick is anything like Bruce, he'll avoid artificial enhancements until they're absolutely neccessary. Bruce doesn't patrol Gotham in the Batwrath armor or the Insider suit, and any "enhancements" in the standard Bat-suit are from writer's license and comicbook physical.

B) You consider Nightwing subpar. Dick is a human, albiet peak human, but a human without any biological alterations. If anything, he's pretty high-end for strength and agility feats, not weak. Its declared that he is the most agile human in the DCU, the majority of his showings are not easily replicated by others.

C) You're comparing a 20+ ton mutate with pre-cognition to a peak human. That doesn't work out. Reflexively, Spider-Man has a superpower. Punches and injuries that Spider-Man could tank would kill Nightwing in an instant in most cases. If a metahuman doesn't have higher stats than a lesser person, comics will have reached a sad state.

D) Basically, you're implying that Dick should be made into DC's copy of Spider-Man. No.

Did you read anything at all that i have said.

A) stop assuming things,that's annoying.I mean seriously,i posted information in the original post that you clearly must've missed.If the suit increases his strength to 10,000 at the most,well good for him.IF that is him doing that based on his physique,which it most likely is,EVEN better.Batman and nightwing have shown throughout the entire dcu and are also known to do inhuman things.Even surpassing metahumans pre new 52 and new 52 in about everything,including strength from people who have super strength (not superman level).They have surpassed many,like meta humans,if that is him doing things that a 7 1/2 tonner would be able to do.

B)I have never seen nightwing do impressive things (i change my mind now) in the past,including in acrobatics,and wanted scans in all of the criteria.DID YOU REALIZE THE SITE is called comicvine,these characters aren't even real.I was just saying he doesn't live up to his name,but he and bruce may as well be called meta humans from what i have seen.They do nonhuman things all the time,basically they show all the time that they are metahuman,(they are humans i know,it is an almost literal phrase since they are NOT metahumans,but might as well be,just adds more character to them knowing what they can do,and they don't have powers)

C)Can i not make a comparison being that dick is supposed to be the best acrobatic on earth,there is no one that can do moves like him,metahuman,or human.It is true that a full punch from spiderman would KO him,but he has taken hits from people who hit harder,and shown feats that are comparable to spiderman in every single criteria AND he is a human,NOW i know that and i am actually surprised and take back everything i said before,ESPECIALLY in strength,and in agilty,at least now i personally can say he is *comparable* to spiderman in all of the criteria,especially strength since he is a human,who may as well be called meta-human just like batman

D)Maybe people like you should stop assuming,before you jump into things.

EDIT:i only said that he would have a suit like that because i previously thought it would be more realistic than him doing all of those things.(But now i see something,like batman,and like i said 50x earlier,he does things that no other human,and many other meta humans can do).

In short:I use to think nightwing was lame,but see his only weakness basically was underestimation and not being given enough credit.I see that he is comparable to spiderman (comparable) especially in strength,agility,speed,etc.I see that he is able to do things that only metahumans can do,and at many times do things that metahumans cannot do/or surpassing them in one of their areas...like strength,he is basically a metahuman,who is a human.I love it,makes him even better,and adds more character to him,I LOVE NIGHT WING!

#14 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

Did you read anything at all that i have said.

A) stop assuming things,that's annoying.I mean seriously,i posted information in the original post that you clearly must've missed.If the suit increases his strength to 10,000 at the most,well good for him.IF that is him doing that based on his physique,which it most likely is,EVEN better.Batman and nightwing have shown throughout the entire dcu and are also known to do inhuman things.Even surpassing metahumans pre new 52 and new 52 in about everything,including strength from people who have super strength (not superman level).They have surpassed many,like meta humans,if that is him doing things that a 7 1/2 tonner would be able to do.

B)I have never seen nightwing do impressive things (i change my mind now) in the past,including in acrobatics,and wanted scans in all of the criteria.DID YOU REALIZE THE SITE is called comicvine,these characters aren't even real.I was just saying he doesn't live up to his name,but he and bruce may as well be called meta humans from what i have seen.They do nonhuman things all the time,basically they show all the time that they are metahuman,(they are humans i know,it is an almost literal phrase since they are NOT metahumans,but might as well be,just adds more character to them knowing what they can do,and they don't have powers)

C)Can i not make a comparison being that dick is supposed to be the best acrobatic on earth,there is no one that can do moves like him,metahuman,or human.It is true that a full punch from spiderman would KO him,but he has taken hits from people who hit harder,and shown feats that are comparable to spiderman in every single criteria AND he is a human,NOW i know that and i am actually surprised and take back everything i said before,ESPECIALLY in strength,and in agilty,at least now i personally can say he is *comparable* to spiderman in all of the criteria,especially strength since he is a human,who may as well be called meta-human just like batman

D)Maybe people like you should stop assuming,before you jump into things.

EDIT:i only said that he would have a suit like that because i previously thought it would be more realistic than him doing all of those things.(But now i see something,like batman,and like i said 50x earlier,he does things that no other human,and many other meta humans can do).

I'm not assuiming, I'm infering. Accurate or not, its what you seemed to imply. My first point is that a powered suit for normal activity is out of character for either of them. In regards to my second conclusion, obviously its a comic and obviously he's human. They lean toward beyond human stats, but they're not above lower level metahuman. Deathstroke said Batman hits harder than any metahuman he's faced. That does not mean he's near as strong as them. Thirdly; I wholeheartedly disagree that Nightwing is anywhere near Spider-Man levels. Absolutely not.

I'm confused on what you're getting at, first you say in the OriginalP and the edited reply that the two accomplish feats that are metahuman level, then you say Dick isn't impressive enough for his title of WGA and is not surprising, but then he's comparable to Spider-Man? (in the edited reply, so that about that last one..?)

@cameron83: Where are you getting these strength feats in the standard Batsuit? 2000lbs at most is Bruce's raw press strength. The suit does not have strength enhancements, nor does it improve his aglity. (The "20 ft at a time!" thing from JL1 was WIS, he never shows it on panel or does it again anywhere else). Dick under adrenaline has suppported a 0.5-1 ton object. When has Dick ever replicated a stength or endurance feat on par with Spider-Man, or even the hypothetical seven tonner that you mentioned?

You can't ask people to "not give you crap" if they don't agree with your statements. Back them up or you'll be challenged.

#15 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@cameron83 said:

Did you read anything at all that i have said.

A) stop assuming things,that's annoying.I mean seriously,i posted information in the original post that you clearly must've missed.If the suit increases his strength to 10,000 at the most,well good for him.IF that is him doing that based on his physique,which it most likely is,EVEN better.Batman and nightwing have shown throughout the entire dcu and are also known to do inhuman things.Even surpassing metahumans pre new 52 and new 52 in about everything,including strength from people who have super strength (not superman level).They have surpassed many,like meta humans,if that is him doing things that a 7 1/2 tonner would be able to do.

B)I have never seen nightwing do impressive things (i change my mind now) in the past,including in acrobatics,and wanted scans in all of the criteria.DID YOU REALIZE THE SITE is called comicvine,these characters aren't even real.I was just saying he doesn't live up to his name,but he and bruce may as well be called meta humans from what i have seen.They do nonhuman things all the time,basically they show all the time that they are metahuman,(they are humans i know,it is an almost literal phrase since they are NOT metahumans,but might as well be,just adds more character to them knowing what they can do,and they don't have powers)

C)Can i not make a comparison being that dick is supposed to be the best acrobatic on earth,there is no one that can do moves like him,metahuman,or human.It is true that a full punch from spiderman would KO him,but he has taken hits from people who hit harder,and shown feats that are comparable to spiderman in every single criteria AND he is a human,NOW i know that and i am actually surprised and take back everything i said before,ESPECIALLY in strength,and in agilty,at least now i personally can say he is *comparable* to spiderman in all of the criteria,especially strength since he is a human,who may as well be called meta-human just like batman

D)Maybe people like you should stop assuming,before you jump into things.

EDIT:i only said that he would have a suit like that because i previously thought it would be more realistic than him doing all of those things.(But now i see something,like batman,and like i said 50x earlier,he does things that no other human,and many other meta humans can do).

I'm not assuiming, I'm infering. Accurate or not, its what you seemed to imply. My first point is that a powered suit for normal activity is out of character for either of them. In regards to my second conclusion, obviously its a comic and obviously he's human. They lean toward beyond human stats, but they're not above lower level metahuman. Deathstroke said Batman hits harder than any metahuman he's faced. That does not mean he's near as strong as them. Thirdly; I wholeheartedly disagree that Nightwing is anywhere near Spider-Man levels. Absolutely not.

I'm confused on what you're getting at, first you say in the OriginalP and the edited reply that the two accomplish feats that are metahuman level, then you say Dick isn't impressive enough for his title of WGA and is not surprising, but then he's comparable to Spider-Man? (in the edited reply, so that about that last one..?)

@cameron83: Where are you getting these strength feats in the standard Batsuit? 2000lbs at most is Bruce's raw press strength. The suit does not have strength enhancements, nor does it improve his aglity. (The "20 ft at a time!" thing from JL1 was WIS, he never shows it on panel or does it again anywhere else). Dick under adrenaline has suppported a 0.5-1 ton object. When has Dick ever replicated a stength or endurance feat on par with Spider-Man, or even the hypothetical seven tonner that you mentioned?

You can't ask people to "not give you crap" if they don't agree with your statements. Back them up or you'll be challenged.

*Sigh*,just look at the link the guy posted above and it basically debunks everything you just said.And for a human,it can be considered metahuman,Also,I said comparable,THERE IS A REASON I EMPHASIZED THE WORD.and WIS or not,it was in the comic and throughout other things in the new 52 it shows batman's strength.I don't get what your saying about the meta human thing,and i am talking about dick,so batman isn't germane to this in particular.And I was at an off estimate,my bad,or maybe in lots of the comics the things batman and nightwing do just happen to be in their 2,000 limit.And he does have endurance feats,strength feats,etc.....this is why i said i don't really give a crap at what others say in all honesty.IF you think about it for a long time,you would see why i said lots of these things,and the strength level seems way beyond 2,000 pounds,or 500-1000 pounds in lots of the scans.

I never meant for you to get the impression that he is regularly able to bench press 15,000 lbs.

And dismissing something because you call it WIS doesn't really change anything,did i see batman able to beat up darkseid or send him flying while swinging on a rope.And with the edit i toned down the strength.20,000 pounds,of course not.But many times they have both shown to do things in strength that are beyond 2,000 pounds.So that is also why i said maybe it was the suit because it seemed to be more grounded toward reality.Yes you basically are trying to force holes in the hypothesis that i am testing (hypothesis is not the most accurate word,but the best one i can think of at the moment).

also:

.Due to his intense training and diet Batman has accomplished feats that normal human beings would call superhuman. Batman is in 100% physical peak in every area of his body and mind. Batman has displayed surprising strength, and is able to bench press weight of at least 2000+ lbs (907 Kg) and has personally stated that his maximum leg press weight is 2500 lbs (over 1.133 Kg). However, as shown in Batman Odyssey # 2, Batman was able to overcome his personal record of leg press, moving, with the strength of the legs, a stuck railroad car. In Gotham After Midnight # 2, Batman was able to holding up two golden sarcophagus from the approximate weight of at least 1 tons, for at least one minute.

I am also assuming,since he is close to batman,that the same goes for him.But they have shown strength feats that go well beyond 2,000 lbs.

I think you might be one of those people who may not fully grasp batman/nightwing (they are similar,but not the same).

And btw,yeah they have shown to surpass some metahumans in lots of things,including strength.

And please read the OP,if your gonna whine how my OP is out of line,or outrageous or whatever,go on another forum or something.I said if you have nothing to post,scanswise,then your not needed.

I specifically said that,and imo i have enough evidence,lots i cannot post on this site,of feats backing up my claims well enough,far enough.It is my opinion that i have backed up,my opinion,meaning it isn't really wrong.IT isn't PIS because i'm guessing people like you think batman is just some guy who guys around in a latex suit at night who just knows kung fu.IF you do not like it,use your imagination and just say that ALL of those things are PIS,debate amongst your thoughts,and move on to another thread,i am busy and cannot continue arguing with you,contribute a scan supporting all of the categories and move along or GTFO,that goes for anyone else who has something similar to say,maybe i need to spoon feed people to get to point A to point B.

#16 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, your proposal (as a science major, hypothesis is definitely not the right word in this case lol) is being challenged. Post feats and support your claims. The only thing I called WIS was the excerpt from JL1 where in one line by an offscreen SWAT member; at no point is Batman actually shown leaping 20ft in the issue or at all in any other book. And other than standard comicbook biology, meaning, Dick fought and won with a bullet wound and a knife to the abdomen. Real life peak human: probably would've bled out. Comicbook near/below peak human:fairly similar results to Dick. Rene Montoya has done the same thing, along with other below peaks. Other than that, I'm open to any evidence that Dick or Bruce can outclass a or rank at metahuman.

@cameron83 said:

I think you might be one of those people who may not fully grasp batman/nightwing (they are similar,but not the same).

*PAUSE* If theres anything I know its Nightwing and Batman.

#17 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise: well i am sorry if i came off a little rude earlier,but go to the link that guy said and see the strength feats,i think that they are well above 2,000 lbs.Which is why i made the estimate of 15,000 which is close more or less in my opinion,opinion,opinion.Also in the new 52,detective comics i believe he threw a talon through a door that the talon was desperately trying to get through,and was only putting little ding marks on the door.And batman was able to throw him through it.And in JL 1,WIS or not,which i don't really see how since it wasn't at all a crucial point in the story.It seems the writers put that in there to show how much better bruce is,skillwise especially,in the new 52.

#18 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: No problem. My diction always sounds rude, even if Idon't mean it. Its just the way I discuss

#19 Posted by SmoothJammin (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise:

Clockwork Orange, TDK, Fight Club. Wow. I never realized it until I really looked at your avi. Brilliant!

#20 Posted by BlueArrow (256 posts) - - Show Bio

major argument just went down

: O

Crazy

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