" In direct relation to Babs' "It feels gimmicky" comment.She doesn't think Deadpool is in the book for any other reason but to further Marvel's agenda at making him more popular. "

Which isn't the way I feel about it. I think Deadpool could actually be a good fit for the team, if well written. I mean, if they were to put Deadpool in the Avengers or something, it'd be another matter entirely. My initial reaction to hearing that Deadpool was going to appear in yet another book, and a team book at that was a very loud sigh followed by "are you kidding me? he's already all over the place, they 'd do better just to cut a whole lot of his series - I'm looking at you Corps - instead of adding him to another on going". But I changed my mind when I read how Remender is using Deadpool for this book.  This is the real problem here, I think. That a lot of people, and I can't actually blame them, immediatly assumed that Marvel just placed Deadpool in there as nothing more than a gimmick, just to attract more readers. Which is the same assumption I made when I first heard of the news. But when I actually read the comic book ( and the prelude in Wolverine: The Road to Hell ) I was actually pretty satisfied. It could just be that the decision to place Deadpool in this team wasn't just made because his appearance could make more money, but maybe because Remender actually has plans and use for him.  Yes I am a huge Deadpool fan. But honestly, if you'd ask me they should cancel Deadpool Corps and Deadpool Team-Up. Team-Up sometimes turns out a decent issue, but nothing really exiting most of the time. And the whole Deadpool Corps has just been average or less than average. I really don't want to see more of Deadpool, I want to see a better quality Deadpool. And maybe then, people will appreciate Deadpool's role in Uncanny X-Force as something more than just a gimmick. "

" @ShirEPanjshir said:

Which isn't the way I feel about it. I think Deadpool could actually be a good fit for the team, if well written. I mean, if they were to put Deadpool in the Avengers or something, it'd be another matter entirely. My initial reaction to hearing that Deadpool was going to appear in yet another book, and a team book at that was a very loud sigh followed by "are you kidding me? he's already all over the place, they 'd do better just to cut a whole lot of his series - I'm looking at you Corps - instead of adding him to another on going". But I changed my mind when I read how Remender is using Deadpool for this book.  This is the real problem here, I think. That a lot of people, and I can't actually blame them, immediatly assumed that Marvel just placed Deadpool in there as nothing more than a gimmick, just to attract more readers. Which is the same assumption I made when I first heard of the news. But when I actually read the comic book ( and the prelude in Wolverine: The Road to Hell ) I was actually pretty satisfied. It could just be that the decision to place Deadpool in this team wasn't just made because his appearance could make more money, but maybe because Remender actually has plans and use for him.  Yes I am a huge Deadpool fan. But honestly, if you'd ask me they should cancel Deadpool Corps and Deadpool Team-Up. Team-Up sometimes turns out a decent issue, but nothing really exiting most of the time. And the whole Deadpool Corps has just been average or less than average. I really don't want to see more of Deadpool, I want to see a better quality Deadpool. And maybe then, people will appreciate Deadpool's role in Uncanny X-Force as something more than just a gimmick. "

I understand what you're saying about Remender having plans for the character but the question is...why did he pick Deadpool? "

" @Vance Astro: That is indeed a difficult question. Did Remender pick Deadpool himself because he has plans for him? Or did Marvel/Remender decide to push Deadpool in the team with the initial intention to sell more copies? ( Which I'm not sure is actually working with Uncanny X-Force ) Either way, Remender managed to write Deadpool pretty darn good so far.  And you've got to admit he does fit the bill. X-Force needs cold-blooded, deadly killers who can take a huge beating and still walk away from it. They need members who won't tell Cyclops about the team's existence. Deadpool 's also being paid by Angel for his services, so his initial introduction into the team has been/is that it's just another job for him. Plus he does have previous experiences with certain team members, albeit they aren't exactly good experiences, from which those members know that he is a pretty decent fighter who can be effectief if pointed at a correct target. "

" There are actually two sides to this whole predicament which make it rather impossible to solve.  On one side: people like Babs and G-Man have a ( rather high ) influential example to all the comic book readers who look at their reviews. Especially the video reviews. A lot of people rely on their reviews and their opinions whether or not to buy or start buying certain issues. So for this, Babs and G-Man should be trying to give the most objective opinion they can, and rate a comic book purely on story quality, art quality, ... Rather than having their likes/disklikes for certain characters influence the ratings.  On the other side: As said before, a review is a personal opinion about a comic book. Thus there actually should and will be an amount of personal likes/dislikes that will influence the ratings. After all, every one of us has his likes and dislikes. And we all downrate / uprate certain comics simply because we love / hate the characters in them. It's to the community itself to realize that Babs and G-Man have their own opinion, but that it doesn't mean that they are the voice of god, and that they are always right.  However, what I can't appreciate is that people tend to dislike certain characters, based off only one or maybe two experiences, or maybe based off nothing at all. In the case of Deadpool I'm pretty sure that a lot of people hate him, even though they might have never read anything on him, or perhaps only read an appearance. Than there are those who have only read Daniel way's run, and hate him, which is already more understandable. But for those people I wish that they 'd read the early Deadpool stuff, which was a lot better. But if you've read Deadpool stuff, and it just isn't your thing, than it's your right to dislike Deadpool and express this in a proper manner. "

I agree with you oin this, one i mean, i can dislike a charatcer or an actor, but when i do a review, i should say, what i think about, for the storyline or art, i mean if you like Venom, you will say? Daniel Way did an amazing job with Venom, well no, you dont say it, you talk about how bad the character is or hpoow bad the art or storyline. Deadpool is overrated?, well by his fan yns, but i have to be honest Deadpool hate is actually Daniel Way hate or sRod Lie Feld hate. I Hate the whole JMS Spiderman run, still i never hated Spiderman, i mean i like Spiderman, but i always disliked the movies. Hat/Dislike anything, dont mean, that just for the fact that is inside of it, you should hate it. "

" @Vance Astro: I never talked about Babs or G-Man, i talked about general reviewers, that dislike some one or something, then everytime they see anything about those thing, they say is bad, just for the fact that thing is inside.
Example, many movie reviewers hated Kick Ass for the fact that, Nick Cage was in that movie.  
I dislike Hayden Christensen , but i liked Episode 3 and he was amazing on Shattered Glass. "

I dunno, I guess people hate him because he's popular? He's an awesome characters and he was well written in X-Force #1.

I hate Wolverine and I have all the issues of the Old Logan Saga, you cant judge a comic just for the character (you can judge them for the writer), I love Spider-man, but I don't bought all the issues of Amazing Spiderman. I bought comics not for the Character, I bought them for the story and what does it makes me feel, I don't know why people hate Deadpool, I have never heard about someone that hate a comic just for the main character, but that would be really dumb.
I dont think that Babs hated X-force #1 just for Deadpool, I think that the main reason, is because Deadpool interrupted critical moment with humor, Babs loves the serious comics with a lot of action, and a definite story, maybe the Deadpool's character interrupts that.

" I hate Wolverine and I have all the issues of the Old Logan Saga, you cant judge a comic just for the character (you can judge them for the writer), I love Spider-man, but I don't bought all the issues of Amazing Spiderman. I bought comics not for the Character, I bought them for the story and what does it makes me feel, I don't know why people hate Deadpool, I have never heard about someone that hate a comic just for the main character, but that would be really dumb. I dont think that Babs hated X-force #1 just for Deadpool, I think that the main reason, is because Deadpool interrupted critical moment with humor, Babs loves the serious comics with a lot of action, and a definite story, maybe the Deadpool's character interrupts that. "

" @DeathpooltheT1000 said:

" @Vance Astro: I never talked about Babs or G-Man, i talked about general reviewers, that dislike some one or something, then everytime they see anything about those thing, they say is bad, just for the fact that thing is inside.
Example, many movie reviewers hated Kick Ass for the fact that, Nick Cage was in that movie.  
I dislike Hayden Christensen , but i liked Episode 3 and he was amazing on Shattered Glass. "

I was just saying that in relation to the topic at hand.I know you didn't say anything about them.I was just stating it so nobody believed the review we are talking about went that way. "

It is not that it got a bad score, it is that the score was lowered due to a factor that was not in the book itself. Babs doesn't have to like Deadpool, this thread seems to have evolved beyond just Deadpool, it is about liking a comic and giving it a lower rating because of a bias outside of the work. That is it. I know that 3.5 to 4 is not a bad score, the score is not the point of this. but the reason for lowering it is. Say a comic was initially given a 4 by a reviewer, but the reviewer didn't like that a character was in it and knocked off a point and a half making it a 2.5. Someone could see the score and not buy a potentially good comic because he/she did not remain objective in their review. I just don't to lose another Nextwave because of something like this. "

" @evodmasters said:

It is not that it got a bad score, it is that the score was lowered due to a factor that was not in the book itself. Babs doesn't have to like Deadpool, this thread seems to have evolved beyond just Deadpool, it is about liking a comic and giving it a lower rating because of a bias outside of the work. That is it. I know that 3.5 to 4 is not a bad score, the score is not the point of this. but the reason for lowering it is. Say a comic was initially given a 4 by a reviewer, but the reviewer didn't like that a character was in it and knocked off a point and a half making it a 2.5. Someone could see the score and not buy a potentially good comic because he/she did not remain objective in their review. I just don't to lose another Nextwave because of something like this. "

Your post seems kind of contradictory.You're saying your argument isn't about the score but everything you're saying is about the rating Babs gave the book.Again...she not only said she liked the book but gave a good score.So nobody is going to refrain from buying the book based on the video because bother people involved gave the book a good score.This is all about Deadpool.You just don't like the fact that she said she didn't like him.That has to be what it is because there is no reason to assume that this review would hurt people's chances of buying the book.She didn't take the score from a 4 to a 2.5 that's a dramatic lowering of the score.Her official score was a 4 out of 5. "

I declare victory!

" I declare victory! "

Every review is opinion based. Heck, when I review the JMS story Grounded I give it a good score despite the bad reception it's gotton. That doesn't matter to me, I like the story. And that's the most important thing about reviewing and reading a comic, making sure you like it and the direction it's going in. If you don't like it, you're entitled to not like it as much as people are entitled to like it as well. Everyone has different tastes and their own personal favourites so technically you can never get an impartial review. And in my opinion, you can't really get an impartial viewer in the buisness so if we didn't have any reviews, we wouldn't have any idea of how good the comic is. A review is only supposed to give someone an idea of how good a comic is, not persuade them to not read it. It's as simple as..

Okay, her score was a 4 out of 5, only after she heard G-Man's score, but if it was just her reviewing it would have been 3.5. Yes, I started this thread because of Deadpool, I didn't deny that, what I said was that "this thread seems to have evolved beyond just Deadpool". By that I mean this thread changed from just Deadpool hating affecting the ratings to  is it right to rate comics based on whether or not it is okay to down rate a comic because it has a character someone doesn't like. I like Deadpool, but if one of his issues sucks then I won't recommend it. To make this perfectly clear on my stand on liking or disliking a character effecting the end ratings, I do not believe that one can up rate or down rate an comic based on there being a character in the comic you either like or dislike. And the problem I have with this is that she said she liked the comic, but the fact that Deadpool was on the team was the reason she down rated it. "

Well I liked him before Marvel realised it. Then as Marvel do, milked him for all he's worth and now I find it hard to read him.

3:00 Babs “This was a good book and then we got Deadpool and then I was like I don't like it any more.”

10:02 Babs “I don't know if I want Deadpool in my X-force thats just the way I feel about it.”

That isn't the first time Babs has brought her bias into a review. She is biased against anything Millar writes, and said so in the review for Nemesis #1. It's just plain unprofessional. I don't even watch reviews on CV anymore. It's not worth the time. Ten minutes? I could read the entire comic in the time it takes to get through that review, and I wouldn't get the unnecessary bias, awkward pauses, and rambling that Babs brings to the table.

" @Vance Astro: 

3:00 Babs “This was a good book and then we got Deadpool and then I was like I don't like it any more.”

10:02 Babs “I don't know if I want Deadpool in my X-force thats just the way I feel about it.”

"

amateurish. deadpool fits this team and we need his comic relief

" @Korg: What she got against Miller? "

@Vance Astro

"Judging just by the comments in this thread...nobody really cares all that much what Babs says."

" @Vance Astro: It is not that she does not like Deadpool, it is that her dislike of the character influenced her review. I did not say that having opinions was a bad thing, the problem is the predisposition of that character influencing the review. For example, the movie Kickass has the actor Nickolas Cage, there were a few people who said they liked the film but gave it lower rating and blasted it because he was in it. Going into a body of work whether it be movies, books, or comics with a point of view of not liking it will influence the enjoyment of said work. And I am not saying that Kickass did bad, but there was a movement to not to watch it because Nickolas (O god not the bees) Cage was in the film and that was not fair to the film, actors, or the film makers. Negativity based on a bias of a person or character is pointless and should not be a factor when a reviewer reviews a body of work. Taking off 1 to 1.5 points based on this factor is wrong, there is no excuse for it, and Babs said that "she doesn't care what people think" (In th review). So why are you going to such great lengths to defend someone who doesn't put any effort to judge a book based only on it that issue's merits and not their personal bias? "

" amateurish. deadpool fits this team and we need his comic relief "

I do, because it reflects poorly on CV as a reputable source of accurate and unbiased information, as Babs is a much more public figure than almost anyone who posts on the forums. It's just bad form, and it has no place in a review that is supposed to be (semi)professional.     "

" @Vance Astro: My point is that the review is specifically there to help people form an opinion. Babs brings bias into it. That is not good. The fact is that some people do watch reviews on this site, and they are swayed by these opinions. Again, not good. The fact that you and I don't watch reviews on here should speak volumes as to the quality of their content, considering how long we've both been here. "

" I guess i'm just wondering where are all these people who are influenced by these reviews."

@Vance Astro

"Also if someone was using this to form their opinion about the book.I would assume they bought and read the comic because it got two good ratings despite Babs bias"

" @Vance Astro said:

" I guess i'm just wondering where are all these people who are influenced by these reviews."

Many of them may not even post on the forums.There are almost always a handful in any given thread for a review as well.  
  

@Vance Astro

said:

"Also if someone was using this to form their opinion about the book.I would assume they bought and read the comic because it got two good ratings despite Babs bias"

I'm talking about reviews in general. In the review I cited (Nemesis #1) , Babs gives the book a 2, while G-Man gives the book a 4.5. In addition to this, Babs voices her distaste for anything written by the author, and goes on to say that his best work was basically a coordinated effort with another author who went uncredited. It's misinformation, and it bothers me. That's a huge black mark on the name of the author to anyone who hasn't heard of him/hasn't read much of his material.  As for people hating characters without reading their books - yes, it does happen. Especially when others create a negative connotation before you read books with that character in them (Deadpool and Midnighter spring to mind), be it through rampant fanboyism, or a negative review. People hate Midnighter without even having read any book he's ever been in, because he can beat their favorite characters in a battle. People aren't always rational about these things. "

" @Vance Astro: Reviews do influence people's pull list. It helps them decide what to spend their money on when they go to a store. I am not saying she gave it a terrible score, the problem is the reason for the score. Yes, I understand that Marvel has used Deadpool like he was the village bicycle and the excessive use of him has worn thin the patience of a whole lot of people. Still, this does not excuse rating down comics simply because he is in it, now if he has no business being in the comic and his presence and actions does harm to the overall story then it you should down rate the book. You should judge the book based on the actions of the characters in the book, not the feelings about the character based on his other appearances outside of the book. A stipulation would be if the character is not acting within their own continuity. An example of this would be Ray Palmer shrinking into people's brains and growing slightly to torture people in Cry for Justice.   "

I love Deadpool in X-Force, he's great

" @evodmasters said:

" @Vance Astro: Reviews do influence people's pull list. It helps them decide what to spend their money on when they go to a store. I am not saying she gave it a terrible score, the problem is the reason for the score. Yes, I understand that Marvel has used Deadpool like he was the village bicycle and the excessive use of him has worn thin the patience of a whole lot of people. Still, this does not excuse rating down comics simply because he is in it, now if he has no business being in the comic and his presence and actions does harm to the overall story then it you should down rate the book. You should judge the book based on the actions of the characters in the book, not the feelings about the character based on his other appearances outside of the book. A stipulation would be if the character is not acting within their own continuity. An example of this would be Ray Palmer shrinking into people's brains and growing slightly to torture people in Cry for Justice.   "

I understand what a review is supposed to do but what I am saying is we are only seeing one side of this.Do you know anyone on CV personally who is influenced by these reviews?Are you influenced by them? For all I know there is nobody affected by this.I'm not excusing anyone for giving a comic a lower rating because of a character.I'm only trying to find some middle ground in these responses.Everyone is coming in here to agree with you but who has actually made decisions based on these reviews.That's what I want to know.It appears everyone who has responded and most people on CV in general have a mind of their own. Also in regards to this video.If we are assuming that people DO use these reviews to make decisions on what to read.All of those people would have bought this book because Babs and G-Man both gave it good scores.Which is what I was saying earlier.So i'm still trying to get to the question..do you really believe that anyone here has made a decision on Deadpool based on what Babs said? You keep dweliing on her "down-rating" the book when the she gave it a 3-4.5 out of 5.It's not like she said..I read it and then I saw Deadpool so now it's a 1. "

Why do people watch and read comic reviews to begin with? "

" @evodmasters said:

Why do people watch and read comic reviews to begin with? "

What is it that I don't get? People watch reviews to get incite on what they should read.I understand that but i don't think that's how they are used here.Most times when I read the responses to reviews most of the people who respond have already read the book.Most of the posts are either.."I read it and I feel the same way" or "I read it and I disagree" or just commentary on the review..not so much whether they will or will not read it.At least that's what I have seen from the limited amount of reviews of watched. "

 So you're saying that people only read comic reviews to see what other people thought about something they already read. That seems kinda point-less. Well, I guess it is not uncommon to use things in a  way they were not intended to be used. Does this argument cover everyone who looks at this site? Does it justify bringing personal prejudice into a body of work? People's favorite characters bring people to books while there least favorite characters drive people away from books. Does reading a book with a character you don't like, admitting that the you liked the book, and then taking a point off because that character was in it? How is that fair? Should not liking a character be added to standard judging procedure on this site? You may not think this is a big deal, but I believe moderators who post reviews on this site should follow a definable standard when doing reviews.

Cmon i understand not everybody likes Deadpool.
But this thing is going in circles.
Vance belives that the fact something you dislike is a good reason to give a lower rating.
And the rest or at least look like the most feel, that if it does a good job even if you dont like it, you should rate things without changing the rating.

"  So you're saying that people only read comic reviews to see what other people thought about something they already read. That seems kinda point-less. Well, I guess it is not uncommon to use things in a  way they were not intended to be used. Does this argument cover everyone who looks at this site? Does it justify bringing personal prejudice into a body of work? People's favorite characters bring people to books while there least favorite characters drive people away from books. Does reading a book with a character you don't like, admitting that the you liked the book, and then taking a point off because that character was in it? How is that fair? Should not liking a character be added to standard judging procedure on this site? You may not think this is a big deal, but I believe moderators who post reviews on this site should follow a definable standard when doing reviews. "

" Cmon i understand not everybody likes Deadpool. But this thing is going in circles. Vance belives that the fact something you dislike is a good reason to give a lower rating. And the rest or at least look like the most feel, that if it does a good job even if you dont like it, you should rate things without changing the rating. "

 
I'm loving Uncanny X-Force. I consider it the best title I'm reading right now. The writing the art and I, personally, think Deadpool is a great fit for the team. I've always felt that there really is a hero buried deep down within him and I'm glad to see him on a real team with real heroes. I also think her original score might not have been based completely on her opinion of Deadpool but I wouldn't know. It's all opinions anyway and everyone's entitled to their stupid-ass opinions.