Before I begin ranting about DC, I want to make it clear that I love DC's comics and characters, and this isn't me criticizing DC for any of that, I'm just explaining the frustration I have as a fan, so here goes:

1) They aren't investing in their films.

The Marvel cinematic universe is such a big success because Marvel planned ahead and invested in it, giving each character their own trilogies as well as a connecting thread to set up the Avengers. So DC gets jealous of the success of Avengers and gives Superman his own film, and then throws a bunch of other characters in the sequel, and then boom, Justice League within a few years. None of these characters will have any chance to develop or become interesting characters on their own. If Thor hadn't had his own film first, a lot of non-comic readers would probably have come out of Avengers not remembering what his name was. It's easy to imagine people walking out after Justice League and asking their friend who "that green guy with the ring" was. I just feel DC is rushing JL out and it's going to suffer as a result.

2) Comic book films made by comic haters

Ok, maybe "haters" is a bit extreme, but they are definitely not fans. I'm sure you've all heard about David S. Goyer's comments on She-Hulk being nothing more than "a girl you could f*ck if you were Hulk" and saying Martian Manhunter can't be in a film, and if he was he would have to just be "Manhunter" and he'd be grown in a petri dish on Earth. Clearly, Goyer has little to no respect for comics, which makes you wonder why DC is having him write their comic book movies, regardless of how good a scriptwriter he is, he is clearly wrong for the job. It was a similar situation with Christopher Nolan producing and co-writing Man of Steel - he is a fantastic filmmaker, and while he doesn't disrespect comics in the way Goyer does, Nolan clearly has no interest in them. If you want your comic films to succeed, you need people who know comics making them. Sam Raimi is a big comic collector, and his Spidey films were (mostly) great. Joss Whedon has written comics, and Avengers was fantastic. I hope DC see sense and start employing comic people to make their films - how about having Scott Snyder and Geoff Johns write a film or two?

3) Toys are all they care about

This is one of the worst things for me; all of DC's good animated series get cancelled very early, and the reasons are pathetic. I didn't watch Beware the Batman, but I did watch Green Lantern: The Animated Series and I loved it, as did many other adults and kids alike. Both shows were cancelled after one season, not because of poor quality writing or animation, not because of no viewer interest, not because people weren't watching them... None of those acceptable reasons. They were cancelled because they weren't selling enough toys. People weren't buying enough Kilowog action figures and so they cancelled Green Lantern. From what I've heard, that's also the reason Young Justice was cancelled. Anything with a good story and character development is dropped in favour of things like Teen Titans GO! because they sell more toys to children. It's just wrong. I would remind you that this is not a recent problem; Tim Burton was replaced with Joel Schumacher because kids didn't want a DeVito Penguin in their Happy Meals (seriously, McDonald's was one of the main reasons Tim Burton was fired). Story-telling should be far higher on DC's priority list than kids' toys.

4) At the first sign of trouble... REBOOT!

Comics don't have a chance to improve anymore. The second sales drop, the writer and artist are replaced, and it leads to confusing and disjointed comics. If people aren't loving the current story arc, DC won't wait for it to end and a new one to start, they will just take the writer off the book forever, with no chance for them to improve it or start a new, better arc. Or failing that, they'll just cancel it all together. If it's not a big name title and the sales dip, it's gone. Suicide Squad is a good example, sales dropped, so they cancelled it. Now, a while later, they're rebooting it with a new writer and characters. I just wish they would give books a chance to improve before they reboot or cancel it.

What do you all think about this? What annoys you about DC? Any ideas on how to solve DC's problems?

3 out of 4 of your points are WB's fault, not DC's.

Honestly I don't think fast tracking to Justice League is a bad thing. The Green Lantern movie was resent enough that he doesn't need to be introduced first. Same goes for Flash since he'll have a TV show by then. If they really wanted to though they could count the show as being in the shared universe and throw in a Green Lantern cameo. Assuming they're using Cyborg instead of Martian Manhunter I think a little cameo in Batman v Superman is all they'll need to set him up for Justice League.

The only issue is with Wonder Woman and Aquaman. I'm glad that they'll be setting up the Trinity before Justice League but I don't think a cameo in that film will be enough for her. Do a Wonder Woman solo movie with a decent Aquaman cameo (and no Batman or Superman) before Justice League and they'll be perfectly set up. A plot where Ares tries to start a war between the Amazons and the Atlantians would work perfectly for that film.

@smashbrawler: Yeah, you're right, I don't mean to place blame squarely on DC for things out of their control, I just meant that they are all frustrations relating to DC, not necessarily caused by them. I guess the real problem is that while Marvel has "Marvel Studios" there is no "DC Studios" which means that the movies are pretty much out of DC's control and are left entirely down to WB.

@muffin_sangria I agree with you to an extent, but really I don't see how the GL movie is a reason to not give him a new one with the current MoS continuity, if anything I think the failure of that movie is another reason he needs to be rebooted, since non-comic readers may have thought the reason the film was bad is just that Green Lantern is a rubbish superhero with rubbish stories. Although I do agree about the Wonder Woman/Aquaman thing, and I'm not saying the JL movie will be bad, I actually think it will be quite good, I just wish Superman could have had more than one film to himself to explore the character more... he has so much history it seems a shame to miss out all of it in favour of a team up.

@patriotperson You don't have to agree with me, in fact the whole reason I posted this was to see other people's opinions, but I would much prefer it if you explained why you disagree and gave a counter-argument instead of just hurling vague insults at me.

@minisaladfresh: Well for the most part I think using JL to spin off the other characters is actually a pretty interesting approach. To me Wonder Woman is the only other character who needs a solo film first. That might just be my bias because she's my favorite character. I do think even if the GL movie was a while ago and it's not canon it's still enough of an intro to jump into Justice League. Although I guess if the did do a Wonder Woman movie first that movie would be about 10 years old by the time Justice League came out.

The only point you kinda hit on is the point you make about toys, and that's only because the sales for the toys for Young Justice was the main reason why that show got canceled -________-

Point 3 doesn't make sense. What kid wouldn't want a Danny DeVitto Penguin toy in their happy meal?

@patriotperson: Don't insult other users thanks.

I agree.

@smashbrawler: WB owns DC, so its kind of de facto DC's fault. In comparison, Disney hasn't sabatoged anything Marvel is doing or has done since they bought them.

they clearly are doing something with there films. the Batman run was the biggest thing in comics. now MoS was a success(gets some hate that never holds up once talked about). Now BvS is most anticipated movie I've ever heard of with WW and other supposed to be in it. they clearly care and making quality movies.

Goyer was talking about when they were made and who by. but screw his opinion he did well with Batman/Superman but you more then anything need the director with vision.

I haven't looked at a toy since my nephews gave em up around 5. but merch is big with companies. I would think with the characters the dcu have merch wouldn't be high on their list.

yea that sucks. they bring their comics too fast an don't seem to coordinate between writers.

I agree with the last thing. highly disagree with the first. the last two superman movies went, let them care about him in returns(people hate it) then f**k it let him fight in MoS.

1.that a Warner bro issue dc has no control over them

2. little respect for comic book? naw he just doesn't like she-hulk or martin manhunter also goyer has written comic i think it was JsA

3.i hated CN when they canceled those show but like they say life move on

4.agree

@sc Sorry.

@minisaladfresh

1. Issues that are Warner Bros's fault should not be considered DC's.

2. If he doesn't respect comic books, why does he work in that industry? I bet he only dislikes She-Hulk and MM, or he was simply joking.

3. Really? Currently, DC has a boatload of live-action tv shows and movies coming out. Just check the post on my blog. Arrow has been running magnificently. So did Smallville, for just over a decade. And remember how huge the Dark Knight trilogy was? DC obviously cares about more of their work than toys, because they wouldn't get this much success with just a caring for toys.

4. Rebooting can be important, actually. To attract new fans. And also, DC is more commonly revamping not rebooting.

I'll take Nolan any day over Johns the former gave us the greatest cbm trilogy the latter produced a flop movie ,even Scott Snyder needs to work on his dialogue,his Batman has some of the worst retorts I've ever heard.

That thing about not selling toys is truly ridiculous, I cant believe they would cancel perfectly good shows because toys aren't selling. That is aggravating.

@redlantern23 said:

That makes no sense, DC can't control any of that stuff. It's WB's fault.

That's a false equivalence, WB owns the rights to DC properties regarding movies, Marvel Studios still has control over Marvel properties, it's just that Disney owns Marvel Studios.

I'm sure that DC would love to have as many of their characters on the big screen as possible but unfortunately, they have very little control over it.

I agree with 2-4, especially 3. I'm kind of half-and-half on 1 though.

1. None of the Marvel heroes had a trilogy before Avengers. They had 1 film. And to date, only 1 has had a trilogy. And Iron Man 2 was basically a prelude to Avengers. Also WB announced the film as Batman vs Superman. It was never Man of Steel 2. That's false internet rumors that people like to get upset over.

Furthermore, Hawkeye and Black Widow didn't and still don't have their own film either. So its not like WB has to give all of them a film. Especially Batman, who needs no introduction.

2. Irrelevant. Most people doing these films have never read a single comic, especially most of the directors and main actors. And for the record Zack Snyder is a huge CB nerd. Also She-Hulk has slept with Hulk in a certain story line.

They do it because they get paid well to do it, not because they love or don't love comics.

3. Yeah, okay. Whatever.

4. Marvel cancels their titles due to low sales all the time.

@fallschirmjager: I never said Marvel didn't cancel their comics too, I just said it annoys me that DC do it. This thread isn't called "Why Marvel is better than DC" it's "Why DC frustrates me"

I know Marvel's characters haven't had a trilogy YET, but they are all getting one (in fact Cap 3 is due for release the same day as BvS), whereas DC is only giving one character a movie of their own, and he's only getting one. As for what you said about Batman needing no introduction, I don't think Captain America needs introducing, but he has his own trilogy.

And I know Zack Snyder is a comic guy, that's why I didn't say anything about him - personally I'm thrilled he's directing.

As for the She-Hulk thing, Goyer didn't say "She-Hulk once slept with Hulk" he said she was *just* "a girl you could f*ck if you were Hulk"

By the way, I don't want you to think I'm being aggressive, I'm just trying to keep the debate going because I find it interesting :D

@minisaladfresh: Considering you compared DC to Marvel in your other points, I don't see how I was wrong to do the same in my response.

Just because DC hasn't announced it *YET* doesn't mean it won't happen. Marvel wasn't announcing 10 films in advance when they had just released Iron Man. Give it time.

Goyer's delivery was horrible, but most of his points were spot on. She-Hulk is a slut (not that being a slut is a bad thing) and MMH is pretty silly when you explain to a non-comic nerd. Doesn't change the fact that is a brilliant writer in Hollywood. He's done a lot of great things in and outside of the CBM genre. He's critically acclaimed and people line up to work with him.

Who cares if he's an asshole? It doesn't mean he isn't going to do the best job he can. Its what he gets paid to do. There's plenty of assholes in hollywood, doesn't mean they can't do good/great work.

There's little you could say to offend me. Its the internet. We're strangers. Say what you want lol.

Reboots are necessary, if it wasn't for the New 52 I wouldn't be reading comics, and I wish Marvel would do something similar. Also DC's awful films are more because of Warner Bros. Whereas Disney lets people who like Marvel run things, and gives Marvel it's own studio, WB has complete control, and the movies suffer because of it. Also the animated series thing is because of Cartoon Network, DC probably hates that all of their good shows get canceled and are replaced by garbage.

@youknowwhattodo: Thats incorrect. WB owns DC....you know that right?

I'm not at all fond of the poor casting, "realism," and depressing tone that characterizes the modern DC Comics live action films. However, a lot of that is probably from WB.

On the comics side, I wish DC would make some strives to make their comics more accessible like Marvel does. They should follow Marvel's lead, and have a page near the front explain the premise of the book and recent events, so new readers can follow the plot. They also shouldn't take 6 months after a story is over to get a trade out. Also, they should have their own version of Marvel Unlimited. MU is one of the greatest things ever IMO. I don't think I have ever gotten so much bang for my buck from anything before. Plus, DC should have a few more "fun" books.

Yes, I never said that they didn't.

I agree with everything. Especially at BvS(hate this vs BS). Superman at least needed one more movie before WB had shoehorned in Batman and I'm not really that hopeful about casting too unlike most people(Ledger copout also annoys me). Also Wonder Woman needs her own movie and I am not sure about about Flash series either because of Smallville(the thing had almost nothing to do with comics). And since this is an alternate universe Batman he needs some sort of development too.The character develipment for me is all over the place now. Wow, that was a long rant but it was so satisfying.