What is the Biggest Mistake of the Reboot

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#1 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

No matter how much you love the reboot everyone seems to have at least have one complaint what is your single biggest complaint of the DCnU

For me it's that Barbra Gordon isn't Oracle. I don't care if she's Batgirl but Oracle is a more useful role and her absence leaves a hole in Dc's hero community

#2 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32847 posts) - - Show Bio

The lack of Secret Six

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#3 Edited by Jake Fury (18157 posts) - - Show Bio

What spiderbat said. Also, if you're going to use WS characters, where is Majestic?

#4 Posted by rogue_mar1e (19833 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaving out certain characters e.g. Wally.

And making Nightwing's costume red. *sob*

#5 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
What spiderbat said. Also, if you're going to use WS characters, where is Majestic?
Superman
#6 Posted by benjoe11 (60 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogue_mar1e said:

Leaving out certain characters e.g. Wally.

#7 Posted by Mercy_ (92629 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

The lack of Secret Six

And Wally West.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Baddamdog (2223 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

The lack of Secret Six
#9 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

No Wally >:(

#10 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow 8 responses and no one said Amanda Waller yet. I'm impressed

#11 Posted by chalkshark (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

They didn't introduce a single new character. Every book just  re-tooled an existing character or existing brand name. For all their "creativity" they didn't actually introduce anything fresh or original to the mix. In the late 1950's/ early 1960's, when DC was re-conceptualizing The Flash, Green Lantern, The Atom, etc for the Silver Age audience, they also created The Metal Men, The Doom Patrol, The Creeper, Hawk & Dove, Deadman, Animal Man & so on. Sure, most of their titles had brief lives, but at least DC was open to breaking true new ground. Something neither company seems to want to do anymore.

#12 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32847 posts) - - Show Bio
@Adnan said:

@Jake Fury:I'm thinking Majestic, along with Icon and Capt. Marvel will appear in Multiversity, whenever the hell that's coming out. I do hope Majestic and other Wildstorm characters appear before then though, they seem like an incredibly cool bunch.

Anyways, there are too many Batbooks. Why Catwoman and The Dark Knight exist yet Shazam and Lobo titles haven't appeared yet despite tons of requests is beyond me.

Cap will be appearing as a back up story in JLA
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#13 Posted by CODYSF (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate that Nightwing costume is red I love the blue one better but no biggie.

#14 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12570 posts) - - Show Bio

not giving the Creeper a chance to shine in his own series.

Online
#15 Posted by Dernman (14763 posts) - - Show Bio
 Some of the thing mentioned already. 

Barbra Gordon isn't Oracle:          I really don't like that.
Nightwing costume.                    Yeah I preferred the blue one also 
The lack of Secret Six:                 I'm more interested in the new Suicide Squad  
Leaving out certain characters:     Honestly I think given time they will return just differently.  
Amanda Waller:                                    Don't like the new look. 
Wildstorm /Milstone Characters:      Honestly there are quite a few Characters that I would like to see but Majestic and Icon are not on the list. 
Multiversity will be spotlighting the New Gods. Shazam will be returning in JLA backups before that. Although I wish he was on Earth 2 with JSA
#16 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32847 posts) - - Show Bio
@chalkshark said:
They didn't introduce a single new character. Every book just  re-tooled an existing character or existing brand name. For all their "creativity" they didn't actually introduce anything fresh or original to the mix. In the late 1950's/ early 1960's, when DC was re-conceptualizing The Flash, Green Lantern, The Atom, etc for the Silver Age audience, they also created The Metal Men, The Doom Patrol, The Creeper, Hawk & Dove, Deadman, Animal Man & so on. Sure, most of their titles had brief lives, but at least DC was open to breaking true new ground. Something neither company seems to want to do anymore.
Half the Teen Titans are new and one of The Outlawz is new
Online
#17 Posted by GLforHIRE (453 posts) - - Show Bio

the lack of all the WS and Milestone guys who were just swept under the rug...heck make icon a villian for all i care or make him majestics foe

#18 Posted by Mercy_ (92629 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@chalkshark said:
They didn't introduce a single new character. Every book just re-tooled an existing character or existing brand name. For all their "creativity" they didn't actually introduce anything fresh or original to the mix. In the late 1950's/ early 1960's, when DC was re-conceptualizing The Flash, Green Lantern, The Atom, etc for the Silver Age audience, they also created The Metal Men, The Doom Patrol, The Creeper, Hawk & Dove, Deadman, Animal Man & so on. Sure, most of their titles had brief lives, but at least DC was open to breaking true new ground. Something neither company seems to want to do anymore.
Half the Teen Titans are new and one of The Outlawz is new

And the Red Hooded Woman, assuming she's new.

Moderator
#19 Posted by _Zombie_ (10322 posts) - - Show Bio

Wally. Ask 90% of the Flash fans on this site, and you will find out that he is the favorite Flash of a huge majority. I am one of them. He was so much more interesting then Barry or Jay, and he was the fastest out of them. Just seems like a major step backwards to delete him from continuity and replace him with Barry. I'm not a fan of what they did with Barbara, seems like yet another step backwards given the title isn't one of the best. Also, another character I'm a little upset to see go missing is Cassie. She's my favorite Batgirl so far, and a lot of fans like her in the role. So I'm kinda sad to see her missing.

Not sure what the upset about Nightwing's costume is. I myself liked the blue a little more, but I hardly see why it's such a major disaster. The red costume actually looks pretty cool.

#20 Posted by Mercy_ (92629 posts) - - Show Bio

@ZombieBigfoot said:

Wally. Ask 90% of the Flash fans on this site, and you will find out that he is the favorite Flash of a huge majority. I am one of them. He was so much more interesting then Barry or Jay, and he was the fastest out of them. Just seems like a major step backwards to delete him from continuity and replace him with Barry. I'm not a fan of what they did with Barbara, seems like yet another step backwards given the title isn't one of the best. Also, another character I'm a little upset to see go missing is Cassie. She's my favorite Batgirl so far, and a lot of fans like her in the role. So I'm kinda sad to see her missing.

Not sure what the upset about Nightwing's costume is. I myself liked the blue a little more, but I hardly see why it's such a major disaster. The red costume actually looks pretty cool.

Sooooooooooooooooooo. Muchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Thissssssssssssssssss.

Moderator
#21 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems like the biggest complaint is removing Wally West as the Flash. I'm not a big Wally fan and i do prefer Barry but it was still a lame move on Dc's behalf. but isn't he supposed to come back in the Speedfoarce comic or something

#22 Posted by Jane McClane (201 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogue_mar1e said:

Leaving out certain characters e.g. Wally.

And making Nightwing's costume red. *sob*

Seriously... he looks like Renegade all over again...

#23 Posted by War Killer (19992 posts) - - Show Bio
@ZombieBigfoot said:

Wally. Ask 90% of the Flash fans on this site, and you will find out that he is the favorite Flash of a huge majority. I am one of them. He was so much more interesting then Barry or Jay, and he was the fastest out of them. Just seems like a major step backwards to delete him from continuity and replace him with Barry. I'm not a fan of what they did with Barbara, seems like yet another step backwards given the title isn't one of the best. Also, another character I'm a little upset to see go missing is Cassie. She's my favorite Batgirl so far, and a lot of fans like her in the role. So I'm kinda sad to see her missing.

So much truth, Cass was my favorite Batgirl as well and would have rather seen Barbara as Oracle while mentoring Cassandra as the Batgirl of the DCnU.
 
Along with this, I'd also throw in Amanda Waller's new look....
#24 Posted by The_Tree (7235 posts) - - Show Bio

Removing a lot of Green Arrow history, and taking away his goatee.

#25 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree: Yeah i miss the goatee. does Green Arrow still have his son or is Conner in limbo?

#26 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3491 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Tree said:

Removing a lot of Green Arrow history, and taking away his goatee.

I feel like the goatee is in the making. He always has stubble where the goatee would be, but that may just be a tribute. Either way, I like him better without it. I get that he's a Robin Hood analogy. I don't need to be beat over the head with it.
#27 Posted by The_Tree (7235 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Limbo, but I bet he still exists.

@Kal'smahboi: Yeah, I've considered that thought about the stubble. I don't even associate the goatee with Robin Hood, it's just that he's had it forever.

#28 Posted by _Zombie_ (10322 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer said:

@ZombieBigfoot said:

Wally. Ask 90% of the Flash fans on this site, and you will find out that he is the favorite Flash of a huge majority. I am one of them. He was so much more interesting then Barry or Jay, and he was the fastest out of them. Just seems like a major step backwards to delete him from continuity and replace him with Barry. I'm not a fan of what they did with Barbara, seems like yet another step backwards given the title isn't one of the best. Also, another character I'm a little upset to see go missing is Cassie. She's my favorite Batgirl so far, and a lot of fans like her in the role. So I'm kinda sad to see her missing.

So much truth, Cass was my favorite Batgirl as well and would have rather seen Barbara as Oracle while mentoring Cassandra as the Batgirl of the DCnU. Along with this, I'd also throw in Amanda Waller's new look....

She was my favorite as well. And I was never big into Suicide Squad, so I wouldn't know what she previously looked like. But based off of her CV page's pic, not a huge fan. Looks a bit slutty, imo.

#29 Posted by PikminMania (4628 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

The lack of Secret Six
#30 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll wait until I see Captain Marvel. They're giving him a make over. If it's bad. I'll be upset on that more than anything else combined.

#31 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Arrow and Superman

#32 Posted by The Stegman (23158 posts) - - Show Bio

well i could complain about the lack of Wally or Secret Six or any other "missing" person, but instead i think the biggest mistakes are the two Legion titles. i was so looking forward to them because i've never read anything with the Legion of superheroes in them before and i wanted to start, but i was disappointed to find out that they did NOTHING to help new readers jump on, it only caters to Legion fans that already exist.

#33 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4692 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Less went into Superman's design than the rest of the DC universe and it is still pretty generic.
#34 Posted by chalkshark (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress: I don't think I was clear enough in my original point. Let me clarify. While there are a few new characters rattling around in some of the team books, DC did not launch a single title starring a completely original character.  One of their big talking points is how cool it is for the readers to be discovering these characters all over again. That would have been better accomplished had they led with a character... maybe even a couple... that we, literally, knew nothing about. While an untried character would have been a risky venture, the whole initiative was a big risk, anyway, & the point was to be bold & innovative. There are also ways to hedge your bets with an unknown hero. For starters, advertise the Hell out of it to put it on people's radar. Second, assign the hottest talent available to the book. A creative team that no one would ignore, regardless of who the character was or what the book would be about. Even if it still ended up a complete train wreck, at least you put it out there, & you established a new property that, somewhere down the line, someone else might revisit, & figure out a way to make it work. Animal Man was created in the 60's. It took 20 years for DC to garner success with that character, but they did it.  
 
             A new character introduced in a team book allows the writer to have, largely, autonomous control over what happens to that character, as the character is not featured outside that series. This is great for the writer, but by forever identifying the character in the context of the team book, it's, likely, the character will never stand alone on it's own merits. Look at Raven, Cyborg, & Starfire from the Wolfman/Perez era of the Teen Titans. They're all great characters. Not a one of them, in three decades, has ever had their own ongoing series. There aren't that many solo stories featuring them. None of them have introduced memorable supporting casts or their very own rogue's galleries into the greater DC universe, thus enriching it all the more.  
 
A brand new hero in a brand new book would have had the potential to be exciting. Especially if it played out like Spider-Man, & introduced an intriguing new villain with each subsequent new issue. That would have been a book I would have got behind. Instead. DC just gave me more of the same. A few tweaks. A few nips & tucks. The same old characters, though. I don't mean for that to come across too negatively. While there have been plenty of disappointments with the "New" 52, there are also some great successes, too. I love Batwoman. It's taken three months, but I'm, finally, settling into Batwing & starting to enjoy it for more than just it's phenomenal art. I'm glad there's an Aquaman book available again. Animal Man & I, Vampire have been solid books. Ann Nocenti is going to be writing Green Arrow, which I think is pretty exciting. The thing of it is, though, that I can't say that these books would not have been just as great had they been published prior to the initiative, in the "old" DC universe. That being the case, the re-launch seems kind of pointless. There was a real opportunity here, & I don't think DC took full advantage of it. I'm going to shut up now, as I think I've drifted a little off point. Sorry about that.
#35 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@chalkshark: I don't know if you count this under the team book thing but i think both Blackhawcks and Men of War have entirly new cast

#36 Posted by Mercy_ (92629 posts) - - Show Bio

@chalkshark: First off, impressive post. Well thought out, it was a good read. Secondly, I agree with pretty much everything that you're saying.

@ZombieBigfoot said:

@War Killer said:

@ZombieBigfoot said:

Wally. Ask 90% of the Flash fans on this site, and you will find out that he is the favorite Flash of a huge majority. I am one of them. He was so much more interesting then Barry or Jay, and he was the fastest out of them. Just seems like a major step backwards to delete him from continuity and replace him with Barry. I'm not a fan of what they did with Barbara, seems like yet another step backwards given the title isn't one of the best. Also, another character I'm a little upset to see go missing is Cassie. She's my favorite Batgirl so far, and a lot of fans like her in the role. So I'm kinda sad to see her missing.

So much truth, Cass was my favorite Batgirl as well and would have rather seen Barbara as Oracle while mentoring Cassandra as the Batgirl of the DCnU. Along with this, I'd also throw in Amanda Waller's new look....

She was my favorite as well. And I was never big into Suicide Squad, so I wouldn't know what she previously looked like. But based off of her CV page's pic, not a huge fan. Looks a bit slutty, imo.

Oh wow. You really haven't seen her before this.

Say hello to The Wall.
Moderator
#37 Posted by tensor (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

superman so far is a joke in the new 52

#38 Posted by _Zombie_ (10322 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

@chalkshark: First off, impressive post. Well thought out, it was a good read. Secondly, I agree with pretty much everything that you're saying.

@ZombieBigfoot said:

@War Killer said:

@ZombieBigfoot said:

Wally. Ask 90% of the Flash fans on this site, and you will find out that he is the favorite Flash of a huge majority. I am one of them. He was so much more interesting then Barry or Jay, and he was the fastest out of them. Just seems like a major step backwards to delete him from continuity and replace him with Barry. I'm not a fan of what they did with Barbara, seems like yet another step backwards given the title isn't one of the best. Also, another character I'm a little upset to see go missing is Cassie. She's my favorite Batgirl so far, and a lot of fans like her in the role. So I'm kinda sad to see her missing.

So much truth, Cass was my favorite Batgirl as well and would have rather seen Barbara as Oracle while mentoring Cassandra as the Batgirl of the DCnU. Along with this, I'd also throw in Amanda Waller's new look....

She was my favorite as well. And I was never big into Suicide Squad, so I wouldn't know what she previously looked like. But based off of her CV page's pic, not a huge fan. Looks a bit slutty, imo.

Oh wow. You really haven't seen her before this.

Say hello to The Wall.

Yeah.. that makes it worse. The new look looks almost nothing like that. I can understand sexing up characters like Starfire who have a bit of a history of being sexed up(still against it), but that's just ridiculous.

#39 Posted by Rapthorn2ndform (38 posts) - - Show Bio

biggest mistake in my opinion, TOO many new books at once, i couln't read all of them but there were some great (Animal Man, Aquaman), some good (Batman, Teen Titans) some average (Green Arrow, Blue Beetle), some bad (Fury of Firestorm, Voodoo) and some OH MERCIFUL GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE (Redhood and the Outlaws)

What i'm trying to say is that we got some diamond mixed with a few gems an mud

i wish all of the new 52 could have been amazing (actually, no, i cant afford to spend $156+ on comics a month)

But the most frustrating thing is: WOMAN IN RED WHO ARE YOU!

We were told she'd appear in all the issue 1s of the new 52 but SHE"S IN ADJECTIVELESS BATMAN #2

i cant get a scan (darn scanners not working but the panel near the end

i put spoiler just in case

WHO ARE YOU!?!?!?!

#40 Edited by chalkshark (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor:  We're still operating under the same brand names. I'm not picking up either book, but as I understand it the lead character in Men At War is a direct relation to Sgt. Rock. He may even be called "Sgt. Rock". I don't know. The Blackhawks are still an elite military force, made up of many nationalities. They're not just fighter pilots, now, but it's the kind of update of the concept you would expect for today's audiences. If you were a fan of the original Blackhawks, you could pick up this series & feel like it was a natural progression of the concept, while still holding on to a bit of the flavor of the previous organization. These books are just re-imaginings of previous DC titles, in much the same way that the Silver Age Green Lantern took the title & power set of the Golden Age Green Lantern, but created an entirely new backstory & world environment from the ground up. Hal Jordan was a completely new character, but he was still Green Lantern. I view the new Blackhawks in much the same way. The faces & names may have changed, but they're still the Blackhawks.
#41 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@chalkshark: Fair enough. it's true that most if not all the new charecters are either in teams or villians for well established charecters (Batman has 4 new villians not counting the one he faces in JLI)

#42 Posted by cosmo111687 (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to completely agree about Oracle. I think the reboot has done a huge disservice to just about all of Gail Simone's body of work with DC. And so much of Batman and DC's history is connected through Oracle. It's just left a massive gap in the continuity.

#43 Posted by ithinkitwasyou (682 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

No matter how much you love the reboot everyone seems to have at least have one complaint what is your single biggest complaint of the DCnU

For me it's that Barbra Gordon isn't Oracle. I don't care if she's Batgirl but Oracle is a more useful role and her absence leaves a hole in Dc's hero community

I second this.

#44 Posted by entropy_aegis (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara as Batgirl,Starfire and The Dark Knight.

#45 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#46 Posted by Redletter (1537 posts) - - Show Bio

Not killing them off!! or putting them out to stud!! or just continuing being true to the origin & character

Reboots are there to make old tried tested characters young & edgy again for a new old reader to get into

I dislike reboots on principle

They are usually a tool of the devil and or /Marketing & should be treated with scorn

I swear to god it they make a Reboot of (insert major exaggeration) batman into a Gay show tune singing talent show winner,

who's parents are shot on the night he wins the America's got talent

by the runner up his x gay lover Joker who show's number was an awful version of who's laughing now by Jessie J

I'm going to probably buy that issues as it sounds funny

#47 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7689 posts) - - Show Bio

It's too early to tell, The Reboot just came in October . The Reboot is directed towards new fans, not diehards.

#48 Posted by The Impersonator (5057 posts) - - Show Bio

Reboot can be a good thing.

#49 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

Superboy

#50 Edited by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

@CODYSF said:

I hate that Nightwing costume is red I love the blue one better but no biggie.

I hate it because it remembers me Batman Beyond (I don't hate the series but I never liked much the costume and the red color isn't my favorite :P)

@BlackArmor said:

For me it's that Barbra Gordon isn't Oracle. I don't care if she's Batgirl but Oracle is a more useful role and her absence leaves a hole in Dc's hero community

I hate it, Hate It, HATE IT she was a good model to follow, a woman that never left that her... injury? (don't know other word) restrain she of helping fighting crime ;'D what an inspiration she was.... u guys made it crap!! >:( [I'm talking about the Dc's guys not u guys, U guys r cool ;) ]

@The Dark Huntress said:

Say hello to The Wall.

Oh wow. You really haven't seen her before this.

That is the woman I have know since I saw Justice League (I started with cartoons and then pass to comics) and that were long ago VERY LONG AGO. Oh the cute childhood

@rogue_mar1e said:

Leaving out certain characters e.g. Wally.

They leave me (and maybe u too) asking "And what happeds with Wally?!? Where the hell is he?!?"

@tensor said:

superman so far is a joke in the new 52

Really? I semi-hated he because he was too much a "good boy" and now... now he reminds me how I will be if I were Superman (of Action Comics) and the big one is pretty good of me (Superman's comics of course)

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