Off Our Minds: Our Thoughts on the Recent Changes at DC

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#51 Posted by cagedleo730 (231 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fantasgasmic said:

When you step back and look at it, it's weird. 19 of the books put out in the first wave have been canceled, and of ALL the 69 titles since the reboot (including ones that haven't come out yet) exactly 1/3 of them failed. I think a lot of that is because DC has been pushing stuff people don't want, like Firestorm, Red Lanterns, or Resurrection Man; whereas other comics seemed interesting at first, but don't pan out, like JLI, Static, or Team 7. I think the majority of the blame needs to be put on the editorial teams. If there was more planning on the front end, we wouldn't have to settle for bad books, that DC knows will be bad, doesn't promote, and then cancels. It's like some things are only published so they can say they're not running a deficit, lose 4 books, need at least 4 books to replace them.

Wikipedia lists a total of 69 titles since the reboot, 23 of them have been canceled

I'm calling it now that Green Team will be mediocre at best, and The Movement will be terrible, as will Vibe. Constantine could be really great, if the creative team takes its cues from his old Vertigo series.

Red Lanterns hasn't been cancelled no matter how much you hope or wish it is. As for the new wave books that got cancelled, I doubt that DC purposefully puts out bad books. They definitely don't promote their lower tiered books but they hope to be surprised by it's success. They want another Swamp Thing/Animal Man success story. Their character catalog is so big that they'll never run out of books to replace the ones they cancel.

I do agree that the original new52 was a rushed mess, but by now they should have more concrete plans on where to take this new universe. Not all the books that have been cancelled have been bad. Sometimes good books don't find a big enough audience.

#52 Posted by BCreatures16 (28 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm hoping that all of these cancellations bring forth new opportunities for really interesting books. I don't feel like I'm missing out on much from the books that were cancelled... I dropped Sword of Sorcery a few issues back and never even bothered to pick up titles like Team 7 and Deathstroke.

I would love to see another Flash book (Wally West? Kid Flash?) or another Wonder Woman book (teen years on Paradise Island, maybe?) giving these characters a different take and expanding their mythos. Also, on the list of books I would love to see are: a Robins book, a teenage Birds of Prey or Runaways-style book, Superman/Batman team-up book, a great crime series set in Gotham (i.e. Gotham Central reboot?). While I'm on my wishlist I would love to see a halfway-decent creative team on Catwoman, please!

#53 Posted by slade_wilson (447 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I've said, I'm over my title being cancelled. I just wish they let Higgins take the book to issue...I don't know...three hundred. Jordan's been doing well, though.

#54 Posted by chocobojam (288 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair i like what DC is doing whenever they are giving unpopular/underrated characters their own ongoing series like Katana and Vibe. So im getting my hopes up that soon they may also do solo ongoing to my other fave characters like Cassandra Cain or maybe even Damian as Robin or his future self batman.

#55 Posted by Fantasgasmic (1071 posts) - - Show Bio

@cagedleo730 said:

@Fantasgasmic said:

When you step back and look at it, it's weird. 19 of the books put out in the first wave have been canceled, and of ALL the 69 titles since the reboot (including ones that haven't come out yet) exactly 1/3 of them failed. I think a lot of that is because DC has been pushing stuff people don't want, like Firestorm, Red Lanterns, or Resurrection Man; whereas other comics seemed interesting at first, but don't pan out, like JLI, Static, or Team 7. I think the majority of the blame needs to be put on the editorial teams. If there was more planning on the front end, we wouldn't have to settle for bad books, that DC knows will be bad, doesn't promote, and then cancels. It's like some things are only published so they can say they're not running a deficit, lose 4 books, need at least 4 books to replace them.

Wikipedia lists a total of 69 titles since the reboot, 23 of them have been canceled

I'm calling it now that Green Team will be mediocre at best, and The Movement will be terrible, as will Vibe. Constantine could be really great, if the creative team takes its cues from his old Vertigo series.

Red Lanterns hasn't been cancelled no matter how much you hope or wish it is. As for the new wave books that got cancelled, I doubt that DC purposefully puts out bad books. They definitely don't promote their lower tiered books but they hope to be surprised by it's success. They want another Swamp Thing/Animal Man success story. Their character catalog is so big that they'll never run out of books to replace the ones they cancel.

I do agree that the original new52 was a rushed mess, but by now they should have more concrete plans on where to take this new universe. Not all the books that have been cancelled have been bad. Sometimes good books don't find a big enough audience.

My mistake, good catch.

I'm not saying they're intentionally putting out something bad, like "Mwahahahaha, let's put out this sucky book, even though it sucks just so we have another revenue stream of FOUR DOLLARS!!!!EVIL!!!!!" I do think there is top down pressure to keep the overall number of books the same or increasing. So if someone (author, writer, other) comes to them and says, "I have an idea for a good Robotman from Doom Patrol/Metal Men crossover story," and editorial might not make sure it's fleshed out, or provide enough support for the creative team and just accept that it'll be a loss. If they'd invest more time/money before they start publishing, to ensure the writer has a clear vision, the characters are well developed, focus grouping, or whatever else Jim Lee & Dan DiDio do as Co-Publishers and Geoff Johns does as Chief Creative Officer, then by default they'd be canceling less books.

#56 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

The dictates from the dc architects don't seem to be working for New 52 and even angered many writers bec. the guiders kept on changing the dictates thru the editors so maybe just replace all of the current dc architects and get some fresh talent to guide dc.

#57 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@MadeinBangladesh said:

DEATHSTROKE and TEAM 7 SHOULDN'T BE CANCELLED!!!!

This

#58 Posted by termiteone4ever (7125 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not sure if this is right move this is a pretty good series

#59 Posted by DarklyDreamingDeadpool (174 posts) - - Show Bio

thats crap. why do you cancel firestorm dc? WHY???

#60 Posted by xtremekidx (576 posts) - - Show Bio

someone over from marvel maybe?

#61 Posted by GrandHarrier (121 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@GrandHarrier said:

"But hey, at least we still have RED LANTERNS, right? ...right?"

Oh. Cute. More Red Lanterns hate. The book that gets routinely crapped on even though it's not being reviewed or read.

Except neither is true. It's clearly being read, as shown by sales figures, and the fact it's not cancelled, and I reviewed the previous issue. So yes, I'm annoyed that a book I think is bad continues to survive while a book I enjoy a good deal isn't receiving a fair chance. I'd love nothing more than to see RED LANTERNS improve, but sadly it hasn't -- at least it hasn't in my opinion.

I should clarify and apologize. I meant that the book isn't being reviewed or read by the staff (with your exception, I'd assume). If one listens to the podcast rarely a week goes by with some comment about it. :P Obviously opinions and all that. But it begs the question; If the title is so bad, why do people continue to get it? There would seem to be something there that justifies it because the sales have been fairly steady for a good chunk of its run. Tie ins obviously help, but the tie ins haven't caused that much of a bump. I think there is just a contingent of readers who enjoy what it has to offer; As a side note, I too lament some of the books not receiving the attention they should. Primarily Sword of Sorcery. If only for the art alone which is downright gorgeous, but the story itself has been a delight.

#62 Posted by derf_jenkins (390 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think the 99% vs 1% books are gonna do too much. Team 7 and SoS didn't get much of a chance. Maybe Batwing will get more interesting with the new team. GL will miss Johns for awhile, but will retain readers and gain some new ones.

#63 Posted by Baberaham_Lincoln (921 posts) - - Show Bio

Dan Abnett for Green Lantern!!!!

#64 Posted by Lvenger (19052 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I love Johns' Green Lantern run and may well drop it after he leaves due to budget concerns, the GL universe does need some fresh faces after such a long tenure. Johns has set up the foundations of the GL universe, now all the new writers need to do is take it in a new direction. And of course cancelling Team 7 and Sword of Sorcery so soon is a poor move on DC's part for not giving its titles the chance to be explored further. But I still support the rotating roster of the New 52 as it gives new creative ideas the chance to shine. For the future, DC have to set up a concrete blueprint of their universe and what characters are in it to take the New 52 forward.

#65 Posted by Omega-Man (761 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems DC don't have a clue what they are doing since the relaunch. Alot of contradictions and large plot holes are still present in the new 52. Then they give us new villains etc without establishing the old characters. And some bran new characters get on goings yet some of the more established character's solos get the boot.

Batwing shouldn't even exist as a title as Nightrunner had more fans on his side than he did, but really Batwing is pretty much the Batman equivalent of Steel is to Superman.

Team 7 was getting good I didn't read the earlier issues but when Spartan appeared I started reading it, I also want to know more about Project Majestic to see an old fave hero from the Wildstorm comics I used to read.

Though I am preplexed this can't be about the sales as I'd think Stormwatch was doing worse than Team 7 or SoS, only because no writer seems to get the characters of that book and every issue they have to explain their powers before they use them like we are idiots plus what happens in Stormwatch doesn't reflect anything in the main DCU. I love Midnighter and Apollo and I love The Engineer and Jenny Quantum and Jack Hawksmoore but they are just badly used and badly written.

So I have to say what happends to Grifter? we haven't seen him since his own series so what is he doing now? sure he was in team 7 but thats DC's past which doesn't count. What happends to Warblade in Ravagers since that comic is getting the boot? Seems that most Wildstorm characters are getting the boot but for some odd reason Stormwatch is still on going and thats the worst written Though I enjoy the characters but it makes me mad when characters I love are getting written so badly.

#66 Posted by Dud317 (287 posts) - - Show Bio

At first, I was thinking there's possibly a deeper problem at DC. Geoff Johns leaving in the early development of a character that he created seems fishy. Why pass the helm on a character that people haven't fully backed up yet? Or, are we getting Hal and Sinestro back with Baz mainly being featured in JLA? If that's the case, then it doesn't concern me as much. Guess we'll see.

#67 Posted by cbishop (7392 posts) - - Show Bio

: I was very disappointed to hear that Sword of Sorcery was getting the axe, but not surprised. I was thoroughly enjoying it, but I figured it wasn't going to get a fair shake from the fans or from DC. It's a shame, because Amethyst could be solidly, logically connected to some of the big names in the DCU, with very little effort.

I think DC is overly concerned with keeping 52 books in rotation - I've said all along that I think they'll be dropping back to 18-26 books - they just can't keep putting out crud titles just to keep 52 titles out every month. They have to know going in that certain books aren't going to make it. Certain ideas are fun, but c'mon - Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE, Blackhawks, and Hawk & Dove were not destined for a long life. Neither was Sword of Sorcery (unfortunately), nor are The Green Team and The Movement. Whoever is yanking their chain from the parent corporation, pressuring them to sell a certain number of issues every month, needs to back off of DC, and let them get back to telling stories that someone might actually want to make a movie about.

#68 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I was pretty much surprised when I heard that Johns was going to be done with Green Lantern too. After a nine year run its hard to really look for someone that could carry on the GL mythos like he did. I mean if one really thinks about it, Johns' greatest success in DC was turning a quite low B-lister superhero/concept (GL/the Corps/etc) into the A-list with his writing starting on Rebirth. Its not something we can just ignore when we think about Johns leaving the title and consider who should be his successor. Personally for me it should be Tomasi, but with so many people leaving the GL titles in due time I don't think even he is going to have that chance any longer. As for Katz mentioning Red Lanterns still, I'm actually surprised that that title wasn't one of the ongoings that got the axe. Very surprising, but then again I do hear Milligan is going to be done with it soon so maybe, MAYBE there just might be hope yet.

#69 Posted by aaunderoath (165 posts) - - Show Bio

THE GREEN and THE MOVEMENT sound like the least interesting ideas I've ever heard of. Hopefully in the coming months DC can make me excited for more books than just Aquaman and The Flash

#70 Posted by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

I was enjoying Sword of Sorcery as well. It is too bad it is gone so soon.

Moderator
#71 Posted by Jubilation7 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I was disappointed by Sword of Sorcery being canceled. I was just getting interested in seeing Gemworld. The writing was solid as was the artwork. Even more important (IMHO) is that SoS was good entry book in an industry that seems to be doubling down more and more on the tights. That is a losing strategy. If TPTB wanted to expand their readership then they need to have entry books and let's be honest writing for women.

#72 Posted by yo_yo_fun (643 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm really sad that Sword of Sorcery is canceled. That was a great book!:/

I'm also really sad to see Geoff Johns leaving Green Lantern but if he feels like it's his time to leave then it's good that he recognizes that now instead of later & the book becomes terrible.

Other than that, I'm not affected by the other books.

#73 Posted by blackkitty (324 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I do not think I will be getting the Green Team, I mean, it's Damage Control from Marvel. The idea is interesting, but, not a new comic worth of interesting. As for the Movement, I am sick and tired of this 1% crud. On the other hand, I love Gail Simone so, will probably try it out. Still, this class warfare stuff keeps killing the news, driving animosity and further fueling fires that wouldn't even be there is the media wasn't creating it in the first place. *sighs* We will play a wait and see on this book.

I completely agree with BCreatures 16, why doesn't Catwoman deserve a decent writer and artist? This could easily be one of DC's best books but, they keep giving it to mediocre talent. I really wish Christy Marx would have gotten this book, I think she would be amazing on it.

#74 Posted by GrandHarrier (121 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a reason these books are getting canceled, sadly.

Team 7: 14,919

Sword of Sorcery: 13,995

Savage Hawkman: 12,852

I, Vampire: 12,310

DC Universe Presents: 12,001

Blue Beetle: 11,487

Fury of Firestorm: 11,361

(Red Lanterns continues on at a steady 38,223, above such fan favorite titles as Hawkeye)

#75 Posted by bloggerboy (553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@bloggerboy said:

@Loki2u said:

I would love to see Ed Brubaker take on Green Lantern.

At first this seemed like an odd pick to me but then I remembered Brubaker's Captain America run...and his Daredevil run...and his Catwoman run...and and and...:D

Green Lantern would still be really different from his usual stuff.

You do notice that all of his acclaimed stuff is crime/spy stuff while his other stuff has been received rather poorly?
BB

Sure but I don't think a GL book under Brubaker would automatically fail. He seemed to do great with Cap's military mythos and the GL Corps is a police force with similar hierarchy (sort of). Throw in a noirish detective story and we could have a good run of Green Lantern.

#76 Posted by Billy Batson (57905 posts) - - Show Bio

@bloggerboy:

I'd rather have good sci-fi than noir on Green Lantern.
BB

#77 Edited by Raw_Material (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

I am quite confused as to why Geoff Johns is leaving GREEN LANTERN and to why DEATHSTROKE is one of the six titles to be canceled during the next wave. However does explain a more vivid answer as to why he might of possibly left the title - due to the fact he might not have that much more GL stories that would match up to those he has already written within the 9 years on the series. As to why DEATHSTROKE is canceled - it doesn't make since; and like what said, "we still got RED LANTERNS, right? ....right?"

Check out my Blog discussing Johns' departure from GREEN LANTERN and join in on the conversation!

click here

#78 Posted by bloggerboy (553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@bloggerboy:

I'd rather have good sci-fi than noir on Green Lantern.
BB

Sci-Fi Noir?

#79 Posted by inferiorego (22498 posts) - - Show Bio

@ckuakini said:

I am quite confused as to why Geoff Johns is leaving GREEN LANTERN and to why DEATHSTROKE is one of the six titles to be canceled during the next wave. However does explain a more vivid answer as to why he might of possibly left the title - due to the fact he might not have that much more GL stories that would match up to those he has already written within the 9 years on the series. As to why DEATHSTROKE is canceled - it doesn't make since; and like what said, "we still got RED LANTERNS, right? ....right?"

Check out my Blog discussing Johns' departure from GREEN LANTERN and join in on the conversation!

click here

You can't get milk from a dead cow.

I'm not calling GL a dead cow, but I ran out of metaphors.

The well may have run dry?

Man, I'm tired.

Staff
#80 Edited by Raw_Material (3212 posts) - - Show Bio

@inferiorego said:

You can't get milk from a dead cow.

I'm not calling GL a dead cow, but I ran out of metaphors.

The well may have run dry?

Man, I'm tired.

LOL! Couldn't have said it any better than that. Hopefully we'll see more great stories be told from Johns as he starts fresh with titles such as AQUAMAN, JUSTICE LEAGUE AND JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA. Really enjoying his first story arc outside of Green Lantern, 'THRONE OF ATLANTIS' and have high hopes in Johns to producing some great stories with the new characters to his writing.

#81 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

I was in shock to hear Johns was leaving, I stopped following DC 1 issue into the new52. I wasn't impressed. But the one thing that almost kept me with them was the GL series. Now I really don't have many regrets.

#82 Posted by Jake Fury (18315 posts) - - Show Bio

DC needs to shift away from being so crossover heavy before they completely alienate their fans.

#83 Posted by SoA (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

sword of sorcery is still sad news to hear about its cancellation i was pulled into the story and the back up beowulf was also cool . sad to see this title go. team 7 is no surprise due to it taking place in the past and half the team are in books in the present so there is no suspense about the "will they make it? is so and so really dead??" vibe that you will get in their present books.

deathstroke being cancelled can be a good thing because now he can be shown as a villain instead of anti-hero , so cannot wait what he has in store for heroes now that his book is cancelled.

#84 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually really like Red Lanterns. Not cool.

#85 Posted by Dedpool (314 posts) - - Show Bio

I know it's been said, but a 52/countdown style mini series chronicling the early formative years of this new DCU would be very helpfull and address the timeline fully.

#86 Posted by lady_toyano (162 posts) - - Show Bio

@new_onslaught: I felt so bad for not giving Sword and Sorcery a chance, but the price tag did really throw me off for something I had no experience with. I was excited to hear about another lady lead, but she held no appeal for me. I'm always scouting for divers characters and non atypical leads, but I can only take so many blonde caucasion lady leads in a book that is obviously being targeted towards a particular demographic in one go. I love Fionna and Cake the comic, I'm sticking with Fearless Defenders (but issue one was a bit clunky for me in the middle , I still pick up Red She Hulk, I'm in and out on Captain Marvel... I like the idea, but I was thrown off by a few issues and the murky art in the beginning, and I adore the split leads on Dial H (That book is double win for the chunky dude and old lady heros)

It bothers me that physical appearances have started to matter to me in my comics, but I do enjoy a sense of familiarity, or relatability. If your obviously going to do something on one teengirl and heroics these days, she's got big shoes to fill as a character Unfortunately Gem got lost in a see of books, and when your dropping 30-60 bucks a month on comics already, you got to pop with good story or appeal to my ego.

A lot o text walls, whoops.

#87 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio
#88 Posted by Sidious (61 posts) - - Show Bio

When's the next re-boot set to happen?

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