Earth 2 & Worlds' Finest Discussion ***SPOILERS***

#1 Posted by BurningDoom1 (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Sooo....the JSA is not gonna be the first generation of super-heroes, they're gonna be the next-generation of super-heroes?

...Huh?!

Doesn't that pretty much take the whole appeal of the JSA away from them? The idea that they were the first, they paved the way for the other heroes who look up to them. The whole appeal of the legacies they've established. None of that exists now.

I'm not happy with this change, but it's it's still too soon for me to abandon the book. I'm gonna see where this ride takes me for now because I've followed the JSA characters for so many years now.

As for Words' Finest, meh. It was alright, but if this book doesn't pick up soon, I see it being cut from pull-list. The only thing that really has my attention is trying to figure out who the guy was that we couldn't make-out in the middle of the boom-tube. I'm assuming he invaded Earth-2 as Power Girl and Huntress/Robin when sucked to New-Earth.

Your thoughts?

#2 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, this seems like an extremely radical change. A 21 year old Jay Garrick? Unimaginable a year ago.

And both titles had something to do with Darkseid! Yay. Anything that has something to do with Darkseid is ok with me.

Moderator
#3 Posted by The_Tree (7245 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked Earth-2, and I'm glad they killed off the Trinity to make way for the JSA.

#4 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with the loss of appeal, the story behind earth2 was somewhat inspired, the artist is great, and the writer possibly more so.

#5 Posted by TheOptimist (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

I disagree with the loss of appeal, the story behind earth2 was somewhat inspired, the artist is great, and the writer possibly more so.

I have to back that up with some agreement... we've already seen the JSA as the old legacy... this new direction for the concept actually brings them to a new level for me... I see the need to fill the void of the Trinity as a really compelling vehicle for the team, one that elevates them for once, instead of diminishing them to the past...

The one thing I have to (tongue in cheek) disagree with is that the writer is greater than the artist. Nicola Scott is... (insert positive superlative of your choice)

#6 Posted by entropy_aegis (14508 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Yeah, this seems like an extremely radical change. A 21 year old Jay Garrick? Unimaginable a year ago.

And both titles had something to do with Darkseid! Yay. Anything that has something to do with Darkseid is ok with me.

What does it have to do with Darkseid?

#7 Posted by Dernman (14786 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya I have too say it has only added to the appeal of of the book. I was pretty meh over the idea of Earth two but not it's definitely going on my list.

#8 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@CitizenBane said:

Yeah, this seems like an extremely radical change. A 21 year old Jay Garrick? Unimaginable a year ago.

And both titles had something to do with Darkseid! Yay. Anything that has something to do with Darkseid is ok with me.

What does it have to do with Darkseid?

Earth 2 is in ruins and the trinity is dead there because Darkseid sent Steppenwolf to conquer the place.

Moderator
#9 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11149 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved both World's Finest and Earth-2. Amazing first issues. I just didn't like how the Trinity was killed off. I understand it was to make room and focus on Jay, Alan, and Al but it still upset me. One of the reasons I was most looking forward to Earth-2 was because I wanted to see the different interpretations of them. I still loved the book and think they died extremely nobly but Kayvee = sad boy.

#10 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

I disagree with the loss of appeal, the story behind earth2 was somewhat inspired, the artist is great, and the writer possibly more so.

I agree.

I really enjoyed yesterday's issue of Earth Two. I think it is one of my favourite first issues of the new 52.

#11 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

I will repeat what I said in my review, the whole reboot is completely missing the point.

The execution was great. It is a thousand times better than Justice League. Very emotional, good storytelling, awesome art. If you know nothing about Earth-2, you will have a blast.

But in reality, the entire idea of rebooting Earth-2 is stupid and lame. Earth-2 was always about staying in continuity with the Golden Age. It was about paying an homage to these original versions of the characters, the ones who originated it all. That is why in both Crisis and Infinite Crisis, the real hero turns out to be Earth-2 Superman, out of respect for the character, the first superhero and the origin of the entire DCU. Earth-2 and the JSA are also at the center of the idea of legacy and passing the torch in the DCU, through Infinity Inc or John's JSA or Robinson's Starman.

With this reboot, all of that is now gone. We are back to de-aged unmarried generic superheroes with no sense of legacy (so basically what we already have on rebooted New Earth) or homage to DC's past.

It is just a waste of a great concept. DC and Robinson are completely missing the point here and coming from Robinson, the guy who wrote Starman, a book that was entirely about a son trying to live up to his father's legacy while becoming his own man, it is very disappointing.

#12 Edited by BurningDoom1 (187 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

I will repeat what I said in my review, the whole reboot is completely missing the point.

The execution was great. It is a thousand times better than Justice League. Very emotional, good storytelling, awesome art. If you know nothing about Earth-2, you will have a blast.

But in reality, the entire idea of rebooting Earth-2 is stupid and lame. Earth-2 was always about staying in continuity with the Golden Age. It was about paying an homage to these original versions of the characters, the ones who originated it all. That is why in both Crisis and Infinite Crisis, the real hero turns out to be Earth-2 Superman, out of respect for the character, the first superhero and the origin of the entire DCU. Earth-2 and the JSA are also at the center of the idea of legacy and passing the torch in the DCU, through Infinity Inc or John's JSA or Robinson's Starman.

With this reboot, all of that is now gone. We are back to de-aged unmarried generic superheroes with no sense of legacy (so basically what we already have on rebooted New Earth) or homage to DC's past.

It is just a waste of a great concept. DC and Robinson are completely missing the point here and coming from Robinson, the guy who wrote Starman, a book that was entirely about a son trying to live up to his father's legacy while becoming his own man, it is very disappointing.

Indeed.

#13 Posted by 4_color_image (217 posts) - - Show Bio

Did anyone find Pandora in Earth 2? She is in Worlds' Finest & Dial H but I can not find her in Earth 2. Is she only on the main DC Earth?

#14 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11149 posts) - - Show Bio

@BurningDoom1 said:

@DarthShap said:

I will repeat what I said in my review, the whole reboot is completely missing the point.

The execution was great. It is a thousand times better than Justice League. Very emotional, good storytelling, awesome art. If you know nothing about Earth-2, you will have a blast.

But in reality, the entire idea of rebooting Earth-2 is stupid and lame. Earth-2 was always about staying in continuity with the Golden Age. It was about paying an homage to these original versions of the characters, the ones who originated it all. That is why in both Crisis and Infinite Crisis, the real hero turns out to be Earth-2 Superman, out of respect for the character, the first superhero and the origin of the entire DCU. Earth-2 and the JSA are also at the center of the idea of legacy and passing the torch in the DCU, through Infinity Inc or John's JSA or Robinson's Starman.

With this reboot, all of that is now gone. We are back to de-aged unmarried generic superheroes with no sense of legacy (so basically what we already have on rebooted New Earth) or homage to DC's past.

It is just a waste of a great concept. DC and Robinson are completely missing the point here and coming from Robinson, the guy who wrote Starman, a book that was entirely about a son trying to live up to his father's legacy while becoming his own man, it is very disappointing.

Indeed.

There is no more homage to pay since the N52 completely wiped out previous history. That was the intention. They wanted to eliminate the Golden Age, SIlver Age, Bronze Age, and Modern Age and start fresh with a New Age of comics, completely unrelated to the past. I think the new idea of Earth-2 is amazing. But that's my opinion. To each his own.

#15 Posted by noj (1077 posts) - - Show Bio

I think its brilliant. We have ALREADY seen characters like Jay and Allen be the supportive elders and veterans. To be perfectly honest their defining characteristic was that they were old. Now we can move beyond that. I don't think I've ever actually read any modern stories showing them at the beginning of their careers. Its new and exciting and quite frankly I cant wait for the next issue.

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#16 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

@BurningDoom1 said:

@DarthShap said:

I will repeat what I said in my review, the whole reboot is completely missing the point.

The execution was great. It is a thousand times better than Justice League. Very emotional, good storytelling, awesome art. If you know nothing about Earth-2, you will have a blast.

But in reality, the entire idea of rebooting Earth-2 is stupid and lame. Earth-2 was always about staying in continuity with the Golden Age. It was about paying an homage to these original versions of the characters, the ones who originated it all. That is why in both Crisis and Infinite Crisis, the real hero turns out to be Earth-2 Superman, out of respect for the character, the first superhero and the origin of the entire DCU. Earth-2 and the JSA are also at the center of the idea of legacy and passing the torch in the DCU, through Infinity Inc or John's JSA or Robinson's Starman.

With this reboot, all of that is now gone. We are back to de-aged unmarried generic superheroes with no sense of legacy (so basically what we already have on rebooted New Earth) or homage to DC's past.

It is just a waste of a great concept. DC and Robinson are completely missing the point here and coming from Robinson, the guy who wrote Starman, a book that was entirely about a son trying to live up to his father's legacy while becoming his own man, it is very disappointing.

Indeed.

There is no more homage to pay since the N52 completely wiped out previous history. That was the intention. They wanted to eliminate the Golden Age, SIlver Age, Bronze Age, and Modern Age and start fresh with a New Age of comics, completely unrelated to the past.

Except it did not wipe out previous history. A lot of things are still there. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Green Lantern and the entire Batverse was relatively untouched and kept most of its Bronze and Modern Age continuity. There is also a ton of referencing in almost all the books, even if they were rebooted.

So first of all, there is nothing automatic and forced about the New 52. The editorial at DC chose to keep some things and reboot others.

Here, they chose to reboot Earth-2 and what I am saying is that it is a very stupid editorial idea in itself. A lot of things are lost, the whole concept goes against what Earth-2 and the JSA are supposed to be about and all of that for what? Yet another team of young superheroes, just like every other team in the New 52. That's...not very smart.

#17 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

I think its brilliant. We have ALREADY seen characters like Jay and Allen be the supportive elders and veterans. To be perfectly honest their defining characteristic was that they were old. Now we can move beyond that. I don't think I've ever actually read any modern stories showing them at the beginning of their careers. Its new and exciting and quite frankly I cant wait for the next issue.

Their defining characteristics were a little bit more complicated than that. I do not know if you had read Johns' two JSA runs or Rucka's checkmate but they were definitely more than just old. Their personalities were completely different and they had completely different character development after all they had been through.

And by your logic, if they only had one defining characteristic, won't removing it make them without any personality? Won't they become completely bland and indistinguishable from all the other young superheroes in teams?

#18 Posted by noj (1077 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap: Yes Ive read John' JSA run and thats honestly what stuck with me. Im sure they had more distinct personalities but nothing SO memorable that it is absolutley untouchable. What I DO remember from them is their status as mentors. Their driving motivation in the series was essentially to use their experience to foster and train new heroes, especially heroes with ties to the JSA in the past. So basically it all boiled down to them being old and experienced.

However by showing them at the beginning of their careers DC can reinvent the characters into something more memorable. Im sure that they will still have elements of their personality from before, but now we have a chance to see something new, and not just them mentoring their thousandth hero. It could completely backfire like it seems you want it too but it could also become something truly special and REALLY give these characters a new lease on life.

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#19 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

I think its brilliant. We have ALREADY seen characters like Jay and Allen be the supportive elders and veterans. To be perfectly honest their defining characteristic was that they were old. Now we can move beyond that. I don't think I've ever actually read any modern stories showing them at the beginning of their careers. Its new and exciting and quite frankly I cant wait for the next issue.

Very well said

@DarthShap said:

Here, they chose to reboot Earth-2 and what I am saying is that it is a very stupid editorial idea in itself. A lot of things are lost, the whole concept goes against what Earth-2 and the JSA are supposed to be about and all of that for what? Yet another team of young superheroes, just like every other team in the New 52. That's...not very smart.

It's not at all a stupid idea from an economic perspective, the current Earth 2 recently erected in #1 is much more friendly and appealing to new readers. It's also written and illustrated well enough that old readers looking for a good story regardless of context.Add the fact that we have been reading stories about these exact incarnation of these characters since the golden age and that most current readers are completely willing to accept a new take on them and you see that you don't loose many people with this move.Justice Society and to a larger extent Earth 2 were not very profitable properties for DC but they were intricate and complex. Not profitable and complex are exactly the properties that the reboot was made for, properties fitting that description were exactly was what DC sought to eradicate. As for another team of Young superheroes not being smart is simply inaccurate, it's very intelligent it's just not diverse, look at the 5 or so series staring Batman just because all of those are simply another book staring Batman doesn't mean launching them isn't smart in fact most of those are not only DC's highest selling books but the highest selling books for the entire industry, then look at DC's war titles they're something different but that doesn't make them smart to launch, of good quality, or profitable. Young superheroes appeal to anyone without a sentimental connection to the characters and as long as they're in character and the story is interesting their old read will stick with this as well. You are of course allowed not to like this book for any reason you feel is good enough but when it comes to de-aging the JS and rewriting Earth 2 it makes neither the story bad or DC foolish

#20 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

@DarthShap: Yes Ive read John' JSA run and thats honestly what stuck with me. Im sure they had more distinct personalities but nothing SO memorable that it is absolutley untouchable. What I DO remember from them is their status as mentors. Their driving motivation in the series was essentially to use their experience to foster and train new heroes, especially heroes with ties to the JSA in the past. So basically it all boiled down to them being old and experienced.

However by showing them at the beginning of their careers DC can reinvent the characters into something more memorable. Im sure that they will still have elements of their personality from before, but now we have a chance to see something new, and not just them mentoring their thousandth hero. It could completely backfire like it seems you want it too but it could also become something truly special and REALLY give these characters a new lease on life.

But if you remove the generational element from JSA, it is not going to be something new, it is going to be like every other superhero team.

To me it is like writing Secret Six, except they are no longer second rate villains.

You are just taking away the only thing that made them special. You are making the entire DCU more generic. Like breaking off all the marriages and the couples, Arsenal no longer being a single father, Starfire becoming some kind of 90's Image bimbo, Amanda Waller no longer being the Wall, Oracle no longer being paralyzed, Green Arrow and Hawkman losing their classic personalities, Wonder-Woman no longer having a special origin story and now this entire idea of legacy disappearing with the previous JSA.

None of them became more interesting when they lost what made them special.

#21 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

It's not at all a stupid idea from an economic perspective, the current Earth 2 recently erected in #1 is much more friendly and appealing to new readers. It's also written and illustrated well enough that old readers looking for a good story regardless of context.Add the fact that we have been reading stories about these exact incarnation of these characters since the golden age and that most current readers are completely willing to accept a new take on them and you see that you don't loose many people with this move.Justice Society and to a larger extent Earth 2 were not very profitable properties for DC but they were intricate and complex. Not profitable and complex are exactly the properties that the reboot was made for, properties fitting that description were exactly was what DC sought to eradicate. As for another team of Young superheroes not being smart is simply inaccurate, it's very intelligent it's just not diverse, look at the 5 or so series staring Batman just because all of those are simply another book staring Batman doesn't mean launching them isn't smart in fact most of those are not only DC's highest selling books but the highest selling books for the entire industry, then look at DC's war titles they're something different but that doesn't make them smart to launch, of good quality, or profitable. Young superheroes appeal to anyone without a sentimental connection to the characters and as long as they're in character and the story is interesting their old read will stick with this as well. You are of course allowed not to like this book for any reason you feel is good enough but when it comes to de-aging the JS and rewriting Earth 2 it makes neither the story bad or DC foolish

It is economically smart on the very short term, for the #1s. In my opinion, people will soon realize that this is not the JSA they were looking for and that ultimately, they just do not care about young Jay Garrick and young Allan Scott and the sales will drop (what they liked about this start was the epic deaths of the Trinity but there is no way in hell this can be topped, especially not with JSA characters that most new readers do not know). In the end, we will be left with a disaster of an Earth-2 with its potential for another use of Golden Age nostalgia completely gone (and nostalgia sales, cf All Star Superman) and DC will need to reboot it once again to bing back Pre-Crisis Earth-2.

It is just a dick move and it does not make for an interesting and diverse universe. And yes, it is bad because it is an awful use of the entire JSA and Earth-2 concepts and it just makes the entire DCU more generic.

#22 Posted by noj (1077 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap: No, but we have a chance to see something new and unique. We dont know at all how this team is going to turn out, you cant automatically assume that they're going to be like every other super team out there. And for that matter its not like the JSA was the only unique team out there. Every superteam has its unique qualities and I'm sure the new JSA will as well. Its going to be a new team in a world thats lost its heroes thats ravaged by war. Im sure that we will see some great stories come out of that.

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#23 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

@BlackArmor said:

It's not at all a stupid idea from an economic perspective, the current Earth 2 recently erected in #1 is much more friendly and appealing to new readers. It's also written and illustrated well enough that old readers looking for a good story regardless of context.Add the fact that we have been reading stories about these exact incarnation of these characters since the golden age and that most current readers are completely willing to accept a new take on them and you see that you don't loose many people with this move.Justice Society and to a larger extent Earth 2 were not very profitable properties for DC but they were intricate and complex. Not profitable and complex are exactly the properties that the reboot was made for, properties fitting that description were exactly was what DC sought to eradicate. As for another team of Young superheroes not being smart is simply inaccurate, it's very intelligent it's just not diverse, look at the 5 or so series staring Batman just because all of those are simply another book staring Batman doesn't mean launching them isn't smart in fact most of those are not only DC's highest selling books but the highest selling books for the entire industry, then look at DC's war titles they're something different but that doesn't make them smart to launch, of good quality, or profitable. Young superheroes appeal to anyone without a sentimental connection to the characters and as long as they're in character and the story is interesting their old read will stick with this as well. You are of course allowed not to like this book for any reason you feel is good enough but when it comes to de-aging the JS and rewriting Earth 2 it makes neither the story bad or DC foolish

It is economically smart on the very short term, for the #1s. In my opinion, people will soon realize that this is not the JSA they were looking for and that ultimately, they just do not care about young Jay Garrick and young Allan Scott and the sales will drop (what they liked about this start was the epic deaths of the Trinity but there is no way in hell this can be topped, especially not with JSA characters that most new readers do not know). In the end, we will be left with a disaster of an Earth-2 with its potential for another use of Golden Age nostalgia completely gone (and nostalgia sales, cf All Star Superman) and DC will need to reboot it once again to bing back Pre-Crisis Earth-2.

It is just a dick move and it does not make for an interesting and diverse universe. And yes, it is bad because it is an awful use of the entire JSA and Earth-2 concepts and it just makes the entire DCU more generic.

You are making an extremely large assumption simply because there was a change. Old fans could feel any number ways about this shift in the characters age as things go along, it's just as likely that they come to love the young versions of the character as it is that they will come to hate it. As for people only liking #1 because of the Trinity's death there have been several people who expressed dislike at the the Trinity's demise and still liked this issue as a whole, so far this has been declared by multiple people one of the strongest opening issues of the new 52 and I don't think that's due to just 3 pages. How can you declare that it's an awful use of the JSA and Earth 2 when we haven't even seen one character (trinity aside) in costume yet, and many JSA fans have expressed interest in the idea so I don't see how it's "a dick move". I would also say the very fact that this takes place in an entirely different universe than the rest of the new 52 makes the post flashpoint world significantly less generic than the pre flash point world

#24 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

@DarthShap: No, but we have a chance to see something new and unique. We dont know at all how this team is going to turn out, you cant automatically assume that they're going to be like every other super team out there. And for that matter its not like the JSA was the only unique team out there. Every superteam has its unique qualities and I'm sure the new JSA will as well. Its going to be a new team in a world thats lost its heroes thats ravaged by war. Im sure that we will see some great stories come out of that.

I am not saying it was the only "unique" team out there. What I am saying is that when you take away all the star power (the trinity) and the whole concept of the team, you do not have much left. Maybe Robinson will find something new and prove me wrong but I have to say I doubt it.

Robinson is not exactly the most creative guy. His greatest run, Starman, was mostly about the idea of legacy (and so were his mediocre Action Comics, Superman and Justice League runs) and he completely got rid of that from the get go with this reboot.

#25 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

You are making an extremely large assumption simply because there was a change. Old fans could feel any number ways about this shift in the characters age as things go along, it's just as likely that they come to love the young versions of the character as it is that they will come to hate it. As for people only liking #1 because of the Trinity's death there have been several people who expressed dislike at the the Trinity's demise and still liked this issue as a whole, so far this has been declared by multiple people one of the strongest opening issues of the new 52 and I don't think that's due to just 3 pages. How can you declare that it's an awful use of the JSA and Earth 2 when we haven't even seen one character (trinity aside) in costume yet, and many JSA fans have expressed interest in the idea so I don't see how it's "a dick move". I would also say the very fact that this takes place in an entirely different universe than the rest of the new 52 makes the post flashpoint world significantly less generic than the pre flash point world

What I meant by awful use of the JSA and Earth-2 was that it just went against everything they were supposed to represent: an homage and a continuation of the Golden Age stories and the idea of legacies in the DCU.

From what I read, the reason why people liked the first issue was mostly because it was epic and it was so epic was because it was about the ultimate sacrifice of DC's most famous three characters and its execution was great. But in the end, the JSA founding members are not that well known and probably won't interest most casual readers.

Finally, how does it make it less generic? There were alternative universes pre-Flashpoint. Did you not read Infinite Crisis, 52, JSA Thy Kingdom Come or Final Crisis?

#26 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

What I meant by awful use of the JSA and Earth-2 was that it just went against everything they were supposed to represent: an homage and a continuation of the Golden Age stories and the idea of legacies in the DCU.

from what I read, the reason why people liked the first issue was mostly because it was epic and it was so epic was because it was about the ultimate sacrifice of DC's most famous three characters and its execution was great. But in the end, the JSA founding members are not that well known and probably won't interest most casual readers.

Finally, how does it make it less generic? There were alternative universes pre-Flashpoint. Did you not read Infinite Crisis, 52, JSA Thy Kingdom Come or Final Crisis?

Ts is certainly a homage to the golden age heroes perhaps even more so than the pre 52 where Justice Society's attention turned away from the older heroes in order to focus on the younger ones they were training. These are the same characters with a different and not inherently worse spin

I definitely agree that issue 1 was epic and it can't be denied that the sacrifice of the trinity will helped that. And it is that very epicness that will bring back casual readers for issue 2 and if it's the same writer then the epicness of issue 2 will bring them back for issue 3 and so on. Casual readers will recognize a well written and well drawn book and they won't have any anger for the change so nothing will stop them from coming back like they would to any other good book.

Those were all events or mini events no ongoing took place on a different earth, thus making this less generic

#27 Posted by DarthShap (875 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

Ts is certainly a homage to the golden age heroes perhaps even more so than the pre 52 where Justice Society's attention turned away from the older heroes in order to focus on the younger ones they were training. These are the same characters with a different and not inherently worse spin

I do not see where the homage is when you delete all the stories written in the golden age and kill the three most important characters of that age.

I understand your point. I guess this focus on those characters can serve as homage but at the same time, by making them veterans, DC also honoured their continuity. Now that it is gone, the message does not exactly look like an homage.

And as I explained, it also built the second specific characteristic of the team, the idea of legacy.

@BlackArmor said:

I definitely agree that issue 1 was epic and it can't be denied that the sacrifice of the trinity will helped that. And it is that very epicness that will bring back casual readers for issue 2 and if it's the same writer then the epicness of issue 2 will bring them back for issue 3 and so on. Casual readers will recognize a well written and well drawn book and they won't have any anger for the change so nothing will stop them from coming back like they would to any other good book.

But as you explained, people mostly follow books for their characters. That is why crappy books like Detective Comics and Dark Knight make the top ten list every month.

Only time will tell but my guess is, most people won't keep reading the book now that the trinity (among which the aforementioned Batman who can sell anything) is gone.

#28 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarthShap said:

@BlackArmor said:

Ts is certainly a homage to the golden age heroes perhaps even more so than the pre 52 where Justice Society's attention turned away from the older heroes in order to focus on the younger ones they were training. These are the same characters with a different and not inherently worse spin

I do not see where the homage is when you delete all the stories written in the golden age and kill the three most important characters of that age.

I understand your point. I guess this focus on those characters can serve as homage but at the same time, by making them veterans, DC also honoured their continuity. Now that it is gone, the message does not exactly look like an homage.

And as I explained, it also built the second specific characteristic of the team, the idea of legacy.

@BlackArmor said:

I definitely agree that issue 1 was epic and it can't be denied that the sacrifice of the trinity will helped that. And it is that very epicness that will bring back casual readers for issue 2 and if it's the same writer then the epicness of issue 2 will bring them back for issue 3 and so on. Casual readers will recognize a well written and well drawn book and they won't have any anger for the change so nothing will stop them from coming back like they would to any other good book.

But as you explained, people mostly follow books for their characters. That is why crappy books like Detective Comics and Dark Knight make the top ten list every month.

Only time will tell but my guess is, most people won't keep reading the book now that the trinity (among which the aforementioned Batman who can sell anything) is gone.

Your confusing perfect continuation of past stories with homage. Frankly DC could have had Barry Allen walk past a store see a winged helmet in the shop window and that would have been a homage, what your asking for is completely contradictory to the point of a revamp. DC did major gymnastics to keep these characters who were completely counterproductive to their intended continuity and theme around, they resurrected an entire universe just so fans of the characters who would logically speaking would be the first to go. I would call that a homage. Al Pratt is still a veteran if it's any consolation though and I completely understand at loss of character history I feel it for several properties myself. I can also admit that the theme of legacy has been lost, I'm just not convinced that that's going to sink the book in the older fans eyes.

It's true that name recognition is a powerful thing to casual readers but Wolverine just had one of his 2 solo series canclled a while back and the public pariah Aquaman is in the top 10 as well so it's not everything. Plus the book stars The Flash and Green Lantern casual readers might not know or care about the difference

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