Originally known as "National Publications", DC is a publisher of comic books featuring iconic characters and teams such as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, the Justice League of America, and the Teen Titans, and is considered the originator of the American superhero genre. DC, along with rival Marvel Comics, is one of the "big two" American comic book publishers. DC Entertainment is a subsidiary of Warner Brothers and its parent company Warner Media.
Hello, Comic Viners. This is my first ever post so I apologize in advance if I mess anything up. (I already did it once when I tried to post this)
Anyway, the title is fairly self-explanatory. Do you think DC as a whole has improved or gotten worse since the start of the New 52? I can't really answer it myself, as I haven't read many New 52 comics, but what do you think? Note that this isn't comparing everything DC has done from the 1930's to 2011 against the New 52, just DC right before the reboot started.
No. Its actually made a lot of people angry. Most characters entire history has been erased, character's personalities have been changed, some characters don't even exist, and overall DC was better before new 52. the reboot was unnecessary and made hardcore fans very angry. There have been a few characters that have improved since the new 52 started like aquaman but over all new 52 was a bad and insulting move. New 52 does have some good series though. Those are just my opinions. And welcome to comicvine :)
Yes. The fact that I'm reading 3 or 4 times as many series as I am post, than pre, speaks to the quality of them. Including some of my favorite characters like Aquaman and Barry.
We'll DC rebooted because they though they 're characters were "outdated". Even though the only thing they had to change was their outfits. But I like the new 52, Aquaman has gotten badass, I love the Superman/Wonder woman relationship, I like everybody's new outfits. I also like their new personalities like supes being less of a boy scout which is why people made fun of him in the first place. He's always been my favorite character, and I like his new changes, he feels relevant and more badass. But if I could go back in time I would try to convince DC somehow to not reboot, and just change their personalities( the ones that need changing), and their outfits in an event. But after that it's still continues on in what is now the Pre-52
Compared to pre-52? Not in the slightest**. Now vs 2011 start of the n52? Still no. It's gotten very convoluted which is something they claim they did the reboot to prevent. (As opposed to, ya know, a money grab). The only thing I am pleasantly surprised about, is how Forever Evil is largely staying out of individual titles (ie: Superman & Flash are still going about various stories, even when in the "main/actual timeline" they were trapped inside Firestorm during FE).
**pre-52 not meaning DIRECTLY before the reboot, as that was kind of crappy too (in a different way), but rather the "prime" years, around & before Infinite Crisis probably (ex: When the classic roster made up the JL, as opposed to the bunch of B-listers in it when it ended).
Overall, I think DC has gotten worse since the New 52 started, and the main problem is the lack of diversity in terms of characters and tones. The New 52 actually started off pretty strong with a wide range of different books. As the years pass, those different books got cancelled and end up being replaced with Batman, Superman, Green Lantern or JL books. Then there's the tone. There are a few exceptions, but the tone is dark and dreary for the most part. There's a lack of optimism and humor throughout the entire line that used to exist. As dark as Secret Six got at times, there was still a lot of humor to it. If you're fan of this direction and the primary characters, then in many ways the New 52 is a major success. For me, I look to Marvel's current initiative as what the New 52 should have been. A focus on creators and emphasizing the uniqueness of each book. Their tones and styles can be wildly different from each other. Moon Knight is a very different book from Black Widow which are both very different from Ms. Marvel that in turn is different from the Superhero-lawyer hijinks of She-Hulk. Granted, it all depends on sales and Marvel can go back to their old Wolverine and Spider-Man is in everything days.
And I would say kinda. The New 52 has sparked interest in some new corners of the DC universes and made Barry Allen one of my all time favorite characters. However before New 52 I do miss the long histories or at least the relationships the characters had. I also miss many of the original costumes. I know they do look stupid, but superheroes look pretty stupid regardless of the costume is made of tights or armor. They are a group of people, aliens, Amazons, Atlanteans, whatever fighting crime in brightly colored costumes. With the old designs there was some charm to the costumes though. So I would say I am mixed. I have enjoyed much of what the New 52 has done and the New 52 did spark my interest in other characters though I do miss what the old DC universe was. It seemed complete, full, and there was not that much confusion.
Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the New 52, as a concept. I feel like they should've gone all the way with the reboot, instead of compressing the timeline, leaving stuff out, changing a bunch of stuff, never clarifying exactly what's canon and what's not, and just plain confusing everyone. I just think that DC needs to either stop with the half-reboots and just be happy with the continuity they have or go all the way and start from the very beginning.
@crazyscarecrow: I agree to the original costume part....i just hate the new supergirl costume, she looks like wearing a diaper or something, i miss the miniskirt she looks sexier on that
Yes. The pre-52 seemed outdated. Since new 52...I got more involved in DC universe before new 52, I was kind of hung up on marvels more modern approach. Not to mention the art work in the New 52 has been vicious.
I also like the direction they are going with aquaman. One of my favorite characters since 1980.
Not to take anything away from the fans who are all about the original way of DC. I can definitely understand how these changes could be discomforting. These characters and their personalities have been ones you have grown to appreciate.
It's only really improved the situation for a few characters, primarily:
Barry Allen
Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Theres been a few other gems amongst the drivel and Batman and GL have maintained their high status, but thats it. For various reasons the following are in an even worse place than they were before the reboot:
No. Its actually made a lot of people angry. Most characters entire history has been erased, character's personalities have been changed, some characters don't even exist, and overall DC was better before new 52. the reboot was unnecessary and made hardcore fans very angry. There have been a few characters that have improved since the new 52 started like aquaman but over all new 52 was a bad and insulting move. New 52 does have some good series though. Those are just my opinions. And welcome to comicvine :)
i disagree the pre 52 comic time line was outdated, cliched, and getting downright rediculous, it needed something new to compete with marvel imo the new 52 comics are perfect
No. Its actually made a lot of people angry. Most characters entire history has been erased, character's personalities have been changed, some characters don't even exist, and overall DC was better before new 52. the reboot was unnecessary and made hardcore fans very angry. There have been a few characters that have improved since the new 52 started like aquaman but over all new 52 was a bad and insulting move. New 52 does have some good series though. Those are just my opinions. And welcome to comicvine :)
i disagree the pre 52 comic time line was outdated, cliched, and getting downright rediculous, it needed something new to compete with marvel imo the new 52 comics are perfect
That's fair, but how many books were cancelled or are going to be cancelled? I find them to still be cliched, especially teen titans. they were running around in neon tron suits for the first half, and then then became a bunch of outcast runaways like gen13.
I really like Justice leauge however, they butchered blue beetle, static was all over the place with clones and future dopplegangers not explained. I honestly don't know how many stories got cancelled.
On the one hand, the New 52 has done SOME good. The end of the Pre Flashpoint universe was spiralling out of control with B listers making up the JLA, Wonder Woman suffering from a horrible retcon and Superman just walking about the place for goodness sake. At least the New 52 allowed for a fresh start to wipe the slate clean from the mess the Pre Flashpoint universe was in. And it has improved some characters. Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Animal Man and Green Arrow have benefited the most from the New 52's reinterpretation of them. And it did boost the profile of DC and its characters, even if temporarily.
Having said that, the New 52 has left an even bigger mess than the Pre Flashpoint universe was in before the reboot. Many characters barely appear in the New 52, the continuity is incomprehensible and barely understandable plus many fans have been left angered by what the New 52 has stripped away from the Pre Flashpoint canon. A sense of legacy, of history and of optimism and fun whilst maintaining serious and mature stories too. Although there are obviously good books in the New 52, their differences from the good books Pre New 52 is clearly obvious.
The New 52 so far has been a 50/50 thing for me.There are some good aspects about it like the fact that characters like ANimal Man,Swamp Thing,Wonder Woman,Aquaman and Green Arrow have some solid ongoing series in which they shine pretty bright.But there are also a lot of minuses like the fact that the whole timeline is really messed up and you can;t seem to understand and see if a certain thing happened and if it did when it happened.Or the fact that characters like Wally West still have no appearance at all(even though soon enough he will appear in the Flash series).So basically,yeah,the New 52 is one messed up thing that brought some good things with itself but also has a lot of flaws.
I have not and will not touch any of the new 52 DC Universe.
I am not bothering with any TV shows, movies, toys, or any other products bearing DCU logos, or anything bearing the characters of the new 52 DC Universe.
@hammertron: That's the same thing my 4 year old cousin says about broccoli.
As a whole, I would say yes. As others have already stated, pre-52 felt outdated and like it was running on fumes. I feel New 52 gave DC a fresh rebirth with a lot of opportunities. Have they taken advantage of all of those opportunities? No, not yet at least. However, series like Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Animal Man, etc. show that they have acted on a lot of them. I think my favorite aspect, and I know I'm in the minority here, is the character design changes. Even the ones I'm not very partial to still gave a new and refreshing feel to the characters. I think my vague descriptions show I'm not too certain on all the aspects I love about New 52, I just do. I think most people just have the problem of adapting to the change of it. It's still the same company and the same heroes, just with a different skin. Some people can't get over the new skin, and it prevents them from fully enjoying the content inside. I guess I have the luxury of finding the said skin to be enjoyable and rejuvenating.
@hammertron: That's the same thing my 4 year old cousin says about broccoli.
As a whole, I would say yes. As others have already stated, pre-52 felt outdated and like it was running on fumes. I feel New 52 gave DC a fresh rebirth with a lot of opportunities. Have they taken advantage of all of those opportunities? No, not yet at least. However, series like Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Animal Man, etc. show that they have acted on a lot of them. I think my favorite aspect, and I know I'm in the minority here, is the character design changes. Even the ones I'm not very partial to still gave a new and refreshing feel to the characters. I think my vague descriptions show I'm not too certain on all the aspects I love about New 52, I just do. I think most people just have the problem of adapting to the change of it. It's still the same company and the same heroes, just with a different skin. Some people can't get over the new skin, and it prevents them from fully enjoying the content inside. I guess I have the luxury of finding the said skin to be enjoyable and rejuvenating.
haha hell no. Its the 90's all over with little to no maturity only a retard teenager considers mature. Only people who are still the same boring origins are Batman and Green Lantern no surprise their. Everyone else got the short end of the stick. So sucks to be you DC fans enjoy the garbage DC is feeding you.
Yes. Okay? Just yes... First thing first, their "Dark" stuff? Thanks to Swamp Thing, Justice League Dark, and I, Vampire it has been absolutely golden. Flash? Best it's been in years, especially with the Rogues. Wonder Woman? She has been made independently relevant in our world for the first time ever. Batman? Scott Snyder's work has been the best Batman ride ever, especially the Court of Owls, and Batman Inc. and Batman & "Robin" have been great titles too. Green Lantern? God knows I can't look away from this corner of the DC universe for two seconds without the thought gnawing at the back of my mind as to what is going to happen next. New 52 ripped me away from what was going on at Marvel and now I can't fully go back and enjoy it.
Has the New 52 made DC better? Absolutely, unequivocally, irrevocably, inescapably, undeniably YES!
As a whole no, mainly because I felt as though the new 52 was supposed to do 2 things.
1) Establish a continuity that was less intricate than pre-Flashpoint
2) Modernize characters whose personas seem outdated, "refreshing" them if you will.
They definitely failed on the former because the timeline is more confusing than before. With regards to the second, it's a little more tricky because it's based on individual tastes but in my personal opinion, the way they "modernized" many characters was by making them more angry, more badass, more cold and have less charm. Some characters it worked like Wonder Woman but with others it seemed as though they forgot to add humanity while "modernizing" and as a result quite a bit of characters seem rather dull and empty rather than more interesting characters whom a reader can identify with and care about.
That's not to say all of the new 52 is bad, there are gems out there, most of them are already listed, but as a whole I think that DC took a step back.
I wasn't overly familiar with pre 52 DC but I think I'm in the minority when I say I actually like The New 52. Way better than Marvel NOW at least, which is very messy and confusing, with all it's constant restarts and inconsistencies.
Well I didn't read DC comics prior to the New 52, but I have bought some of the trade books with pre new 52 but post crisis stuff in it and I think its a yes and no answer. I like some of the New 52 stuff, like the Batman books, the Flash book and the current Wonder Woman book, but a lot annoys me. 1) Superman has become a bit of a a*** hole at times in the New 52. 2) They cancelled some of my favourite books like captain Atom 3) They have nerfed characters like Hal Jordan 4) its pretty confusing when they have books going with characters on different time lines, such as Superman Wonder Woman and Superman unchained, wonder Woman.
Also, Villains month, wtf was that about?!
I also think DC is getting left behind by Marvel who constantly have new stuff coming out which grabs me. One positive is that there are some new DC books coming out soon.
I wasn't overly familiar with pre 52 DC but I think I'm in the minority when I say I actually like The New 52. Way better than Marvel NOW at least, which is very messy and confusing, with all it's constant restarts and inconsistencies.
Think what you want about the New 52, but how in the world is Marvel NOW confusing or inconsistent? Besides labelling one of the Avengers issues as a jumping on point, which it wasn't at all, Marvel NOW's continuity is firmly established and sensible.
No. Its actually made a lot of people angry. Most characters entire history has been erased, character's personalities have been changed, some characters don't even exist, and overall DC was better before new 52. the reboot was unnecessary and made hardcore fans very angry. There have been a few characters that have improved since the new 52 started like aquaman but over all new 52 was a bad and insulting move. New 52 does have some good series though. Those are just my opinions. And welcome to comicvine :)
But in truth, some aspects of the New 52 could be considered improvements..though none actually come to mind, which is not a good sign.
The fact of the matter is that the New 52 has pissed me off in so many ways that whenever I think about it, the only thoughts that flash into my mind are the negative ones (drastic changes to beloved characters, ugly redesigns, unnecessarily confusing continuity, horrible team dynamics, the complete regression of some of DC's most iconic pairings [don't get me started on the ridiculous "marriage ban"], stagnant stories, too many crossovers, underexposure of many characters, alienating their best writers, and the flat out retconing of some of my favorite characters).
I cannot help but feel that DC could have accomplished what they were looking for in the New 52 WITHOUT a reboot. Just reset all titles to issue #1 and continue with the old universe, retconing less desirable things as they went on and trying to make their books new-reader-friendly WITHOUT erasing half of the characters' histories and supporting casts. Batman #1 back in 2011 did a pretty good job of that, making a compelling introduction to the series while simultaneously finding a way to make the reader vaguely familiar with Bruce's family.
When the New 52 started, I read close to ten series at a time. Now, I'm down to four (and two of those four are brand new series that just began this month). I eagerly await the day that DC is restored to its former glory. The New 52 is going downhill. And sooner or later, DC will be forced to make a change. Hopefully it will involve gutting the editorial department and putting people who respect their history in charge.
No, is getting worse, really, and the Marvel, currently, is the best choice, IMHO. I'm afraid the future of DC Comics will be dark, but is just their fault.
WARNING: Here comes an angry fanboy rant be prepared people!
Okay here I go...
No, The New 52 has not improved DC Comics.
Just because a hand of characters have improved from the reboot does not make it successful while a plethora of other characters have either suffered terribly or no longer exist.
Oh wow Green Arrow is cool now? Well guess what; Tim Drake, Connor Kent, Cassie Sandsmark, and Bart Allen all sacrificed their lives so GREEN ARROW CAN BE COOL. Now THOSE characters are complete TRASH.
New 52 was supposed to make things simpler while in fact it has made things more complicated.
"Who cares about continuity? Just enjoy the stories we're getting now." = Lazy
"God Bless the New 52! That's what got me into comics!" = If you didn't get into comics solely because the number on the issue was high then you = lazy. (If you got into comics post reboot because you wanted to get into comics and DC had already happened to reboot, then you are excused.)
DC was absolutely fine pre-reboot and the people complaining about DC spiraling out of control act as if that couldn't have been recovered from. Wonder Woman, yes, she had a ton of problems but that could have been solved. Superman was walking for a few issues? Throw him a new team and he's flying again punching Doomsday in the FACE. JLA had 2nd Gen heroes instead of the 1st Gen? AWESOME. Give the 2nd Gen some time to grow as the premiere team and get more known before the main characters take the mantle back (this part of the rant was inspired in part by my friend, L. Much love).
There are so many things wrong with The New 52 and it's all thanks to Dan Didio. Because of the New 52 I have gone from solely reading DC Comics every week, as it was 100% of my pull list, to it now being about 10 or 15% of my pull list while the rest is Marvel, Valiant, and Image.
Oh wow Green Arrow is cool now? Well guess what; Tim Drake, Connor Kent, Cassie Sandsmark, Bart Allen, Harley Quinn, the Question, Captain Marvel, Lobo, Raven, Roy Harper, Barbara Gordon, Black Canary, Superman, Static, and Mr. Freeze all sacrificed their lives so GREEN ARROW CAN BE COOL. Now THOSE characters are complete TRASH. Then there are the characters who have been erased/killed off for no reason, such as Stephanie Brown (fine, she's coming back; but the pessimist comic book fan inside of me is still skeptical), Cassandra Cain, Wally West, Donna Troy, Artemis Crock, Ares, Connor Hawke, Tempest, Miss Martian, Helena Bertinelli, and Jackson Hyde. And lets not forget the dozens of character relationships (romantic and platonic) that have been eradicated because "marriage/commitment of any kind isn't cool" and doesn't fit with the New 52's FLAWED definition of "young and fresh" equating to childish and arrogant.
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