DC's Top 10 Martial Artists

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#1 Posted by TruePwnge (2764 posts) - - Show Bio

The 'other' comic company came up with a terrible list the other day, it was terrible LOL
 
So let's say DC do a top 10, who should be in it?
 
Karate Kid? Lady Shiva? Deathstroke? Batman....let's debate this for a bit before we come up with our official top 10 ;)
 
.

#2 Edited by cascadeking09 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

my list probably sucks, but im really bored
 
1.Karate kid
2,Richard Dragon
3.Cassandra Cain & Lady Shiva
4.Conner Hawke 
5. Bronze Tiger
7. Batman
8.Black Canary 
9.Dick Grayson
10.Tim Drake

#3 Posted by robbiesol (474 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Karate Kid 
2, Lady Shiva 
3. Cassandra Cain 
4. Bruce Wayne 
5. Deathstroke the Terminator
7. Black Canary
8. Dick Grayson 
9. Tim Drake 
10. Wonder Woman     
#4 Posted by cascadeking09 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio
@robbiesol: woa, hold up. how the heck is cassandra cain a better fighter than batman? but never mind, i cant talk cause my list aint no good.
#5 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Karate Kid
2.Richard Dragon
3.Lady Shiva
4.Bronze Tiger
5.Cassandra Cain
6.Deathstroke
7.Bruce Wayne
8.Conner Hawke
9.Dick Grayson
10.Ravager

#6 Posted by robbiesol (474 posts) - - Show Bio
@cascadeking09: 
 
Cause she's a better martial artist than him. She might not be a better tactician or detective, but if we are talking pure martial art skill, then I think she is his superior. 
 
Batman is more than just martial arts though, and that's why he'd win a fight more times than not.
#7 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
"1.Karate Kid 2.Richard Dragon 3.Lady Shiva 4.Bronze Tiger 5.Cassandra Cain 6.Deathstroke 7.Bruce Wayne8.Conner Hawke 9.Dick Grayson 10.Ravager "

this is close enough to my list.
#8 Posted by cascadeking09 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio
@robbiesol: how she a better martial artist though. batman has had the same training she has and by even more people. i dont get how she could be better.
#9 Posted by Bobby X (1141 posts) - - Show Bio
@Satyrquaze said:
"@geraldthesloth said:
"1.Karate Kid 2.Richard Dragon 3.Lady Shiva 4.Bronze Tiger 5.Cassandra Cain 6.Deathstroke 7.Bruce Wayne8.Conner Hawke 9.Dick Grayson 10.Ravager "
this is close enough to my list. "

Mine is slightly different, but close. Feel free to call me out on it cuz this is highly debatable especially in how we define a "martial artist". I find myself wanting to mention a lot of guys just because they  could beat people on my list in h2h but may not actually be considered better martial artists than them (Ted Grant comes to mind). 
 
1. Karate Kid 
2. Richard Dragon 
3. Lady Shiva 
4. Bronze Tiger  
5. Bruce Wayne 
6. Deathstroke
7. Conner Hawke 
8. Cassandra Cain 
9. Dick Grayson 
10. Tim Drake 
 
What do ya think?
#10 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bobby X: Cassy is a better fighter than Deathstroke and Batman.
 
Deathstroke is also a better fighter than Bruce wayne.
#11 Posted by Bobby X (1141 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" @Bobby X: Cassy is a better fighter than Deathstroke and Batman.  Deathstroke is also a better fighter than Bruce wayne. "

You might be right about the Cassie point because I actually haven't read a whole lot of her stuff, I was just basing that on what I have seen and heard about her. Is she really that good?  
Deathstroke and Bruce is very close to me and I think Bruce might be the better martial artist overall. I think Deathstrokes wins over Batman are due in part to his enhancements not pure martial arts skills so I would argue that Bruce is still technically a better martial artist.though, however it is tough to discern between the two. 
#12 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Prometheus should be in the top 10... 
 
1.Karate Kid
2.Richard Dragon
3.Lady Shiva
4.Bronze Tiger
5.Cassandra Cain
6.Deathstroke
7.Connor Hawke
8.Bruce Wayne 
9.Prometheus
10.Dick Grayson
#13 Posted by Sukislide (52 posts) - - Show Bio

1.  Batman 
2.  Lady Shiva 
3.  Richard Dragon 
4.  Karate Kid 
5.  Cassandra Cain 
6.  Deathstroke 
7.  Conner Hawke 
8.  Bronze Tiger 
9. Dick Grayson
10.  Black Canary
#14 Posted by Vance Astro (91071 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Karate Kid 
2.Lady Shiva 
3.Richard Dragon 
4.Cassandra Cain 
5.Conner Hawke 
6.Bronze Tiger 
7.Deathstroke 
8.Batman 
9.Black Canary 
10.Wonder Woman

Moderator
#15 Posted by Saren (25243 posts) - - Show Bio

Fix.

Moderator
#16 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

@cascadeking09 said:

my list probably sucks, but im really bored 1.Karate kid 2,Richard Dragon 3.Cassandra Cain & Lady Shiva 4.Conner Hawke 5. Bronze Tiger 7. Batman8.Black Canary 9.Dick Grayson10.Tim Drake

YEs

#17 Posted by cascadeking09 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

@termiteone4ever: lol I forgot 6.

#19 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

For my list I'd want to ignore the "ageless sensei" archetypes and the "all-knowning warrior of the future" archetypes:

  • O-Sensei
  • Ducra
  • Batman 1 Million
  • Karate Kid
  • etc

I'd also want to focus on the heroes (or at least, protagonists) as villains always have to be more dangerous than heroes so that's a losing game:

  • Batman
  • Lady Shiva
  • Richard Dragon
  • Cassandra Cain
  • Connor Hawke
  • Black Canary
  • Bronze Tiger
  • Vic Sage
  • Wonder Woman
  • Dick Grayson
  • Deathstroke
#20 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I'd also want to focus on the heroes (or at least, protagonists) as villains always have to be more dangerous than heroes so that's a losing game:

  • Lady Shiva

Doesn't fall into hero or protagonist section.

#21 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel said:

@fodigg said:

I'd also want to focus on the heroes (or at least, protagonists) as villains always have to be more dangerous than heroes so that's a losing game:

  • Lady Shiva

Doesn't fall into hero or protagonist section.

Depends on what you're reading. I'd call her a clear protagonist in the early Vic Sage Question stuff.

#22 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

@fodigg said:

I'd also want to focus on the heroes (or at least, protagonists) as villains always have to be more dangerous than heroes so that's a losing game:

  • Lady Shiva

Doesn't fall into hero or protagonist section.

Depends on what you're reading. I'd call her a clear protagonist in the early Vic Sage Question stuff.

Not a protagonist. A recurring role. A protagonist is the main character of the book. She was only in about 8 issues (out of 37) of The Question. A person can be in every issue and still not be the main character/protagonist. Lois Lane is in many Action Comics/Superman comics but she's not a protagonist she is a supporting role like Jimmy Olsen.

#23 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supreme Marvel said:

@fodigg said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

@fodigg said:

I'd also want to focus on the heroes (or at least, protagonists) as villains always have to be more dangerous than heroes so that's a losing game:

  • Lady Shiva

Doesn't fall into hero or protagonist section.

Depends on what you're reading. I'd call her a clear protagonist in the early Vic Sage Question stuff.

Not a protagonist. A recurring role. A protagonist is the main character of the book. She was only in about 8 issues (out of 37) of The Question. A person can be in every issue and still not be the main character/protagonist. Lois Lane is in many Action Comics/Superman comics but she's not a protagonist she is a supporting role like Jimmy Olsen.

I think it's common enough parlance to just refer to a deuteragonist or a tritagonist generally as "one of the protagonists," whether that fits the strict definition or not. This is especially true of team books and from arc to arc the exposure of certain characters can shift.

As Shiva was frequently fighting alongside Sage and often got the focus of certain story arcs, I'd say that distinguishes her from a regular supporting role, as opposed to love interest Myra Fermin, best friend Tot Rodor, or teacher Rich Dragon. She shared in his struggle and journey, sometimes in opposition but usually alongside. If you don't feel it's correct to call her an actual protagonist, I'd still argue she serves a function of a deuteragonist (or tritagonist if you want to label Myra as the deuteragonist).

#24 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

@fodigg said:

@Supreme Marvel said:

@fodigg said:

I'd also want to focus on the heroes (or at least, protagonists) as villains always have to be more dangerous than heroes so that's a losing game:

  • Lady Shiva

Doesn't fall into hero or protagonist section.

Depends on what you're reading. I'd call her a clear protagonist in the early Vic Sage Question stuff.

Not a protagonist. A recurring role. A protagonist is the main character of the book. She was only in about 8 issues (out of 37) of The Question. A person can be in every issue and still not be the main character/protagonist. Lois Lane is in many Action Comics/Superman comics but she's not a protagonist she is a supporting role like Jimmy Olsen.

I think it's common enough parlance to just refer to a deuteragonist or a tritagonist generally as "one of the protagonists," whether that fits the strict definition or not. This is especially true of team books and from arc to arc the exposure of certain characters can shift.

As Shiva was frequently fighting alongside Sage and often got the focus of certain story arcs, I'd say that distinguishes her from a regular supporting role, as opposed to love interest Myra Fermin, best friend Tot Rodor, or teacher Rich Dragon. She shared in his struggle and journey, sometimes in opposition but usually alongside. If you don't feel it's correct to call her an actual protagonist, I'd still argue she serves a function of a deuteragonist (or tritagonist if you want to label Myra as the deuteragonist).

I don't see how she could. Them terms can be used for Lois Lane since she is in almost every issue of Superman/Action Comics, but Shiva was in the first two issues, then she returns for an arc between issues 28-31 and then the final two issues of the series. She would have been apart of the tritagonist cast for that arcs, but not the book. However, she would be under a apart of a tritagonist in Richard Dragon's Kung-Fu Fighter comic. That's like 30 years old and you didn't say there was a limit on the year. :) I just don't see her as a hero since she kills a lot of people.

What character did you not want to use?

#25 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Midnighter(If he actually counts as a martial artist).

2.Batman 1000000

3.Karate Kid

4.Constantine Drakon

5.Deathstroke

6.Cassandra Cain

7.Batman

8.Lady Shiva

9.Richard Dragon

10.Bronze Tiger

11.Sensei

12.Connor Hawke

13.Tommy Jagger

14.Bane

15.I-Ching

16.Bamboo Monkey

17.Dick Grayson

18.White Canary

19.Black Canary

20.Silver Monkey

#26 Posted by StrangeMan (407 posts) - - Show Bio

The lack of Ted Grant in this thread is worrisome.

#27 Posted by Zeeguy91 (1097 posts) - - Show Bio

In no particular order:

  1. Lady Shiva
  2. Bronze Tiger
  3. Deathstroke
  4. Cheshire
  5. Batman
  6. Karate Kid
  7. Richard Dragon
  8. Bane
  9. Black Canary
  10. Wonder Woman (she is technically a martial artist of Amazon combat skills)
#28 Posted by jphulk26 (1308 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Wonder Woman 1. Batman

2. Deathstroke

3. Catwoman

4. Lady Shiva

5. Batwoman

6. Huntress

7. Black Canary

8. green arrow

9. Lady Shiva

Thats all you really need to know

#29 Posted by lightsout (1821 posts) - - Show Bio

The lack of Ted Grant in this thread is worrisome.

This. Also insert a meme/demotivational poster about Batman

#30 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@geraldthesloth said:

1.Karate Kid

2.Richard Dragon

3.Lady Shiva

4.Bronze Tiger

5.Cassandra Cain

6.Bruce Wayne

7.Deathstroke

8.David Cain

9.Conner Hawke

10.Dick Grayson

Fixed.

#31 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@geraldthesloth said:

1.Karate Kid

2.Richard Dragon

3.Lady Shiva

4.Bronze Tiger

5.Cassandra Cain

6.Bruce Wayne

7.Deathstroke

8.David Cain

9.Conner Hawke

10.Dick Grayson

Fixed.

Richard Dragon has no feats to compare with Shiva,Batman,or Cassandra Cain.

And Deathstroke should be much highier.

#32 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

@geraldthesloth said:

1.Karate Kid

2.Richard Dragon

3.Lady Shiva

4.Bronze Tiger

5.Cassandra Cain

6.Bruce Wayne

7.Deathstroke

8.David Cain

9.Conner Hawke

10.Dick Grayson

Fixed.

Richard Dragon has no feats to compare with Shiva,Batman,or Cassandra Cain.

And Deathstroke should be much highier.

I know but DS isn't as skilled as Batman he's just stronger, faster, and his brain works faster. Batman is better at martial arts Slade is just plain better.

#33 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Karate Kid

2. Batman 1M

3. Cassandra Cain

4. Lady Shiva

5. Batman

6. Richard Dragon

7. Bronze Tiger

8. Sensei

9. David Cain

10. Dick Grayson

#34 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: So what?

It's standart stats for him...

And I really don't think Cassandra Cain and Lady Shiva are above Batman at all.

#35 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: That's why he's below Batman in martial arts skill. It's his stats that make him better than Bats not that he's not good I love DS he's my favorite villian.

And Cass probably not but Shiva maybe.

I personally think Bats is the best fighter in DC but he doesn't use lethal force.

@ultrastarkiller said:

1.Karate Kid

2.Richard Dragon

3.Lady Shiva

4.Bronze Tiger

5.Bruce Wayne

6.Deathstroke

7.Cassandra Cain

8.David Cain

9.Conner Hawke

10.Dick Grayson

Fixed.

If we count the future move everyone down one and put Batman 1 million at the top.

#36 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: Well,Deathstroke is not what we would exaxtly call a villain.He is neutral.

And he is not superhuman at all.He is peak human/nigh superhuman.

None of those two has ever beaten Batman straight h2h.

#37 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: I never said he was super human.

And didn't Batman admit that Shiva was better than him?

But if he was a killer he could probably beat Shiva but he's not so he would be using his training in a non lethal way with is probably less effective and she wouldn't.

But I guess I can put him above her.


@ultrastarkiller said:

1.Karate Kid

2.Richard Dragon

3.Bronze Tiger

4.Bruce Wayne

5.Lady Shiva

6.Deathstroke

7.Cassandra Cain

8.David Cain

9.Conner Hawke

10.Dick Grayson

Fixed.

If we count the future move everyone down one and put Batman 1 million at the top.

Would you put Dick higher than Cain?

#38 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: Batman also admitted WW was the best melee fighter in the world.

No.Cass is above Dick by feats.

#39 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: But melee doesn't equal martial arts.

#40 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: But melee doesn't equal martial arts.

Melee equals everything from h2h combat til melee weaponry(swords,hammers,knives etc.)

#41 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: I'm pretty sure the Martial Arts that these guys know are not what they teach Amazons. Wonder Woman may be the perfect fighter but we're talking martial arts here. Or does she qualify for this?

#42 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger: I'm pretty sure the Martial Arts that these guys know are not what they teach Amazons. Wonder Woman may be the perfect fighter but we're talking martial arts here. Or does she qualify for this?

Martial arts are ways of fighting eficiently.So they do.

And Batman would stomp WW in pure h2h and weapons.

#43 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

@stronger: I'm pretty sure the Martial Arts that these guys know are not what they teach Amazons. Wonder Woman may be the perfect fighter but we're talking martial arts here. Or does she qualify for this?

Martial arts are ways of fighting eficiently.So they do.

And Batman would stomp WW in pure h2h and weapons.

O ok I just saw that Martial Arts are traditions of combat practices so she does qualify. And I think it would end in a draw. WW has and eternity of experience, Bruce has the skill to keep up but they would beat each other about as many times as they defeat each other, so to me it's out of ten times they fight both would win 5 times.

#44 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

@stronger: I'm pretty sure the Martial Arts that these guys know are not what they teach Amazons. Wonder Woman may be the perfect fighter but we're talking martial arts here. Or does she qualify for this?

Martial arts are ways of fighting eficiently.So they do.

And Batman would stomp WW in pure h2h and weapons.

O ok I just saw that Martial Arts are traditions of combat practices so she does qualify. And I think it would end in a draw. WW has and eternity of experience, Bruce has the skill to keep up but they would beat each other about as many times as they defeat each other, so to me it's out of ten times they fight both would win 5 times.

Wonder Woman has no h2h feats to suggest she could even take on Tim Drake(of course no powers).

Batman stomps.

#45 Posted by Vance Astro (91071 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

@stronger said:

@ultrastarkiller said:

@stronger: I'm pretty sure the Martial Arts that these guys know are not what they teach Amazons. Wonder Woman may be the perfect fighter but we're talking martial arts here. Or does she qualify for this?

Martial arts are ways of fighting eficiently.So they do.

And Batman would stomp WW in pure h2h and weapons.

O ok I just saw that Martial Arts are traditions of combat practices so she does qualify. And I think it would end in a draw. WW has and eternity of experience, Bruce has the skill to keep up but they would beat each other about as many times as they defeat each other, so to me it's out of ten times they fight both would win 5 times.

Wonder Woman has no h2h feats to suggest she could even take on Tim Drake(of course no powers).

Batman stomps.

Batman said different.

Moderator
#46 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Batman said sh!t.

We cannot allow mere sentences to apply in battles.

We have to use feats.

Give some decent no powers WW feats and then we are talking.....

#47 Posted by Vance Astro (91071 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@vance_astro: Batman said sh!t.

We cannot allow mere sentences to apply in battles.

We have to use feats.

Give some decent no powers WW feats and then we are talking.....

1.This isn't a battle.

2.I know how a battle works

3.Why would I need to give you "no powers" fighting skill feats when most of the characters she fights have powers?

Moderator
#48 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: Cause Batman doesn't have powers.And it's unfair......

Then why did you brought up Batman 's words??Come on man,I am sure we 've been through this before.......I can name quite a few false or miscalculated sentences some characters have said over the years.We have to use credible feats.

You know in the Superman/Batman series,when Batman gained Superman's powers one-shotted WW.

#49 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though he was a 10yr old kid ,Damian Wayne should be in the top ten, due to his vast knowledge of martial arts ,from the League of Assassins,Batman, etc......

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (91071 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@vance_astro: Cause Batman doesn't have powers.And it's unfair......

Then why did you brought up Batman 's words??Come on man,I am sure we 've been through this before.......I can name quite a few false or miscalculated sentences some characters have said over the years.We have to use credible feats.

You know in the Superman/Batman series,when Batman gained Superman's powers one-shotted WW.

Not when you're comparing how skilled they are in comparison to each other and not arguing who can beat who. Obviously she'd beat him in one attack.

I brought up Batman's words because I believe them not to debate your point as this isn't a battle a thread. I CAN also name quite a few false statements made by characters..I don't think this is one of those.

The actual Superman is incapable of one-shotting Wonder Woman, so regardless of how skilled he is, Batman isn't capable of doing it either, because having "Superman's Powers" means just that.

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