I can understand the want for stronger female characters but if the readership and talent isn't there for creative teams, the complaining is nonsensical. Be satisfied that DC does have at least a few very talented ladies working for them. And start buying those books, if you are so starved for more.

I'm a woman and I don't care. Who cares if women or men write a comic, all that matters is that it's good. If the writing sucks because someone sucks at writing, it's not the fault of the gender, it's the fault of the person. Same if the writing is awesome. That's equality. 
 
and also, DC is starting to piss me off tbh. They seem more concerned with pandering to the fans than making interesting storylines, at least in the majority of their comics these days. All this fanservice with hot looking characters but lack of substance. and the damn Reboot coming up...wtf DC y u so random???

To be honest, I have no idea how I feel about this, I am disappointed in the lack of female characters being utilised in the relaunch, but as to writers/artists what not, it does not bother me. Aside from Gail Simone and Chandra Free I am not a huge fan of any female artists or writers. Not saying I hate any of them, just that it never crosses my mind or upsets me to know that an all male crew worked on my favourite comic... I would love the industry to be more gender neutral but it seems a long way off.. I think people like Babs are the front runners in getting it known that females love comic books too, and not just the "nerdy" ones either.

I do not think or see Jim Lee or any of the other crew at DC deliberately NOT hiring women, it could simply be a lack of quality material coming out of those camps... maybe the ladies just need to step it up and get their work better known? or perhaps it is a matter of a sexist industry... I just do not know!

@Caligula said:

really it's just femocracy at this point masquerading as feminism. I can't take people who call themselves feminist seriously.

Dude, chill... reply to this with some kind of accuracy.. attacking women for trying to get some changes is not the way to get your point heard.

There are actually a ton of female comic book readers.  As Gail Simone said recently - if you can't see that the female fanbase is growing you just aren't reading the internet or going to conventions. 
In fact, if it weren't for men constantly telling us how we don't like comic books (or dinosaurs, or motorcycles, or action movies, or math or whatever) we would have no idea.  Maybe you don't know many female comic book fans, but I do.  I know more female comic book fans than male ones.
There is so much misunderstanding and misogyny and fear being displayed on this one forum alone.  Do you not understand how you and your own attitude contributes to our alienation?  How this is why we're making a stink.  We aren't satisfied with the way things are for very valid reasons.  So no, we won't sit down and shut up and be satisfied with the paltry representation we currently have.  If this frightens you, you may want to consider why.  You as a straight white man are probably still going to be okay at the end of it.  What harm is there in showing some solidarity with your sisters in arms?  What we want does not have to come at your personal expense.  There's room for all different persectives.  If you don't understand where we're coming from, maybe for a second think it could be because you're a man who has never for 5 minute in a single day had to see and feel and debate the things that we have.  Try to keep an open mind and don't feel so threatened by our perspective.  Because honestly, the debate has only just started.  It's not going away.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but "Batgirl" seemed awfully petulant from the reports I've heard.  Companies will hire whomever is most qualified.

As a female myself I find this very sad there needs to be more women in the industry as they write fictional women more realistically good role models for young girls than the men writers do.

Anybody think maybe women are just using their writing/artistic talents in more sophisticated ventures like novels? The percentage of female novelists sure does seem to be on the rise and there are a lot of really good books coming out these days.

What type of research would you think is appropriate? Would the writer have to live in the Bronx? Would a Wikipedia page suffice?

Speaking and interacting with, in this case Latin Americans, could also be an option right. Now let say this writer did all three of these, highly unlikely but lets say he did, any Anthropologist will tell you that this still is not enough to speak on the behalf of a community set in a certain location. The best person to speak on the experiences of this community would be a prominent member of this community. That prominent member of the community, if he/she so happens to be a great writer, could then put the experiences of this community into prose.

@pikahyper: Like the Hunger Games from what everyone keeps telling me. I'll just wait till it's on Blu-ray.

Thing is here for me, is that the "should" word is thrown around so casually. Should is a BS word to me in this context, because its not actually dealing with reality. I mean, if we use the 'should' word, ideally shouldn't we apply it to way more important things than comics? If its so easy? When did the comic book industry succeed where everything else ever has failed and turned the word should into what is and will happen. Should is great, its ideal, its what I want, its what we deserve, but its not the reality and people should question and should stand up and pester and annoy and argue about such subjects because in the last five years very powerful people at the top at DC and Marvel have made some of the most ignorant gender statements ever. (ten points to anyone who states what they were) Its how all things have been changed though out history, don't settle, don't reward mediocrity. Laugh and point out the hypocrisy at those who start defending what they are okay with, when they whine and moan about stuff they criticize. Or when some characters get new clothes because pants are more practical and then Harley shows up sans anything. Most fans (and even a lot of creators) argue from subjective info and what "should" be. Writers aren't just selected and picked for their talents. Its naive to think so, and it it doesn't solve the problems that exist. Its relatively varied and a huge part, sure, how talented a writer or artist is. Every single other CV thread where people are complaining is evidence to this as well though lol (this isn't so much a gender equality based argument, but a logic old vs new creators and balancing how replacement occurs. Internet for example has allowed many, many artists from various corners of the World end up working for the big two, and thats good. Writing works different to art though... otherwise maybe an argument could be why hire all these overseas people, just hire the "best ones" as in you know... the same white ones) (with females its circular arguing, because their aren't many female, fans, so shouldn't be more female writers oh wait, maybe female fans get disgusted by books like X-Woman, but when you compare to manga, novels where gender ratios are different? Oh wait, they aren't failing as bad as comics are. If good male comics writers aren't writing good female's good comics for females, then some of any writer thats good at writing females and books for females (which doesn't exclude males) well get them. Its sad that history has shown us that they will have more success or maybe it just points out that people grossly overrate their ability to understand the other gender. Some of those people probably winding up in positions making decisions for comics companies. 

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@Caligula said:

really it's just femocracy at this point masquerading as feminism. I can't take people who call themselves feminist seriously.

Dude, chill... reply to this with some kind of accuracy.. attacking women for trying to get some changes is not the way to get your point heard.

sorry for voicing my opinions on a forum about a topic related to said opinions... oh wait, i'm not.

No offense I like you, always have, but this is peeve of mine. Feminists complaining about lack of women in certain positions, and automatically jumping to a sexist conclusion. when really it has nothing to do with the selection process for writers.

@Caligula said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@Caligula said:

really it's just femocracy at this point masquerading as feminism. I can't take people who call themselves feminist seriously.

Dude, chill... reply to this with some kind of accuracy.. attacking women for trying to get some changes is not the way to get your point heard.

sorry for voicing my opinions on a forum about a topic related to said opinions... oh wait, i'm not.

No offense I like you, always have, but this is peeve of mine. Feminists complaining about lack of women in certain positions, and automatically jumping to a sexist conclusion. when really it has nothing to do with the selection process for writers.

I get that and in some ways agree with you, but your way of expressing it was slightly offensive, there are ways of expressing your opinion that do not attack ;) I did not mean to jump on you, was trying to put it in a way that did not look like an upset at you, its simply a request to express yourself in a way that gets your point across without women getting pi&&ed at you ;)

I would not lump all men into the same basket and you should not do the same for women, I class myself as a femqualitist I am just hoping for the same chances for women as men!

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@Caligula said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@Caligula said:

really it's just femocracy at this point masquerading as feminism. I can't take people who call themselves feminist seriously.

Dude, chill... reply to this with some kind of accuracy.. attacking women for trying to get some changes is not the way to get your point heard.

sorry for voicing my opinions on a forum about a topic related to said opinions... oh wait, i'm not.

No offense I like you, always have, but this is peeve of mine. Feminists complaining about lack of women in certain positions, and automatically jumping to a sexist conclusion. when really it has nothing to do with the selection process for writers.

I get that and in some ways agree with you, but your way of expressing it was slightly offensive, there are ways of expressing your opinion that do not attack ;) I did not mean to jump on you, was trying to put it in a way that did not look like an upset at you, its simply a request to express yourself in a way that gets your point across without women getting pi&&ed at you ;)

I would not lump all men into the same basket and you should not do the same for women, I class myself as a femqualitist I am just hoping for the same chances for women as men!

I get that, and I apologize if I came across as offensive. But I wasn't lumping all women together, I was lumping feminists together. but there are exceptions to that like RazzaTazz she is really into feminism and she isn't a troll, like the woman in the article appears to be. I mean going from panel to panel trying to cause trouble while people paid good money to get into SDCC.

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@Caligula said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@Caligula said:

really it's just femocracy at this point masquerading as feminism. I can't take people who call themselves feminist seriously.

Dude, chill... reply to this with some kind of accuracy.. attacking women for trying to get some changes is not the way to get your point heard.

sorry for voicing my opinions on a forum about a topic related to said opinions... oh wait, i'm not.

No offense I like you, always have, but this is peeve of mine. Feminists complaining about lack of women in certain positions, and automatically jumping to a sexist conclusion. when really it has nothing to do with the selection process for writers.

I get that and in some ways agree with you, but your way of expressing it was slightly offensive, there are ways of expressing your opinion that do not attack ;) I did not mean to jump on you, was trying to put it in a way that did not look like an upset at you, its simply a request to express yourself in a way that gets your point across without women getting pi&&ed at you ;)

I would not lump all men into the same basket and you should not do the same for women, I class myself as a femqualitist I am just hoping for the same chances for women as men!

I get that, and I apologize if I came across as offensive. But I wasn't lumping all women together, I was lumping feminists together. but there are exceptions to that like RazzaTazz she is really into feminism and she isn't a troll, like the woman in the article appears to be. I mean going from panel to panel trying to cause trouble while people paid good money to get into SDCC.

@Vinyl: Nice first post.

To be honest, it probably isn't worth the hassle of working in the comic industry unless you're very determined and ready to struggle. The usual beginning salary for artists and writers are pretty much set at a standard figure and depending on negotiations and past works it doesn't actually amount to a liveable income unless you draw, ink, letter and write an entire series by yourself. Even so, it stretches a person pretty thin. In any case, comics have become the Hungry Man dinner of entertainment, lately. A little Lean Cuisine might make Superman look less fat and slack-jawed, even if current writers have made him seem the least bit sentimental about everything.

My girl is big into comics, she reads what good out there, but she is more incline to give a book a shot if the character is female.

Okay, here's my response to this --  
 
I dont' care whether my writers have boy parts or girl parts. I care that they're good writers. Most all my favorite comic writers are male. My comic book crushes are male (I'm looking at you, Namor, or, since this is DC, Grayson).  
 
But I'm a girl, and i want to be a writer. What if I am any good at writing (I'm not, since all anyone here has seen is my fangirly OC hilarity) but what if I wanted to be a writer at DC? Am I going to be turned down because I don't know what it's like to be a guy? Am I going to be turned down over someone that does know what it's like to be a guy?  Am I going to be turned away for a writer with sh*tty skills but knows about shock value, who is only going to kill off Batman AGAIN?  
 
It's something I constantly worry about. So I don't think that companies should hire women all willy nilly, I know PLENTY of crap female writers. 

@Caligula said:

I get that, and I apologize if I came across as offensive. But I wasn't lumping all women together, I was lumping feminists together. but there are exceptions to that like RazzaTazz she is really into feminism and she isn't a troll, like the woman in the article appears to be. I mean going from panel to panel trying to cause trouble while people paid good money to get into SDCC.

Being passionate about something is not being troll'y mind you I have not seen the video so I can not argue about how she behaved.

There are actually a ton of female comic book readers.  As Gail Simone said recently - if you can't see that the female fanbase is growing you just aren't reading the internet or going to conventions. In fact, if it weren't for men constantly telling us how we don't like comic books (or dinosaurs, or motorcycles, or action movies, or math or whatever) we would have no idea.  Maybe you don't know many female comic book fans, but I do.  I know more female comic book fans than male ones.There is so much misunderstanding and misogyny and fear being displayed on this one forum alone.  Do you not understand how you and your own attitude contributes to our alienation?  How this is why we're making a stink.  We aren't satisfied with the way things are for very valid reasons.  So no, we won't sit down and shut up and be satisfied with the paltry representation we currently have.  If this frightens you, you may want to consider why.  You as a straight white man are probably still going to be okay at the end of it.  What harm is there in showing some solidarity with your sisters in arms?  What we want does not have to come at your personal expense.  There's room for all different persectives.  If you don't understand where we're coming from, maybe for a second think it could be because you're a man who has never for 5 minute in a single day had to see and feel and debate the things that we have.  Try to keep an open mind and don't feel so threatened by our perspective.  Because honestly, the debate has only just started.  It's not going away.

What is it with feminists that automatically leads them to the bat-s*** crazy, anger-fueled conclusion that because people get tired of hearing tired, lazy arguments like this, that they are 'afraid' and 'threatened' of females? You claim to want unity, but you are blatantly targeting one group. It's not about this coming at 'our expense', I'd love to see more women in comic stores, besides the ones that come in briefly to giggle at the 'nerds'. You sound an awful lot like someone actively trying to be a victim; honestly the bit about males never having struggled or gone through hard times? Please. Because you get stared at a bit and treated with a bit of trepidation in comic stores, suddenly your struggles are that much more profound? Think about what a lot of male comic book readers went through in high school.

It should never be about filling some ridiculous quota, it should be about talent. Also, to those using the argument that men can't write female characters adequately, what makes you think women will be any better at writing male characters?

For me, the quality of the work is all that counts. I don't care if the writer is male or female, straight or homosexual, if they can write a good story that is all that counts. Now truthfully there is a lack of female comic book characters present in the rebooted DCU atm and even though DC is probably the leader when it comes to identifiable superheroines like Supergirl and Batgirl, they are respectively connected to an even more popular male superhero. Only heroines like Wonder Woman and Black Canary can be considered to be truly independantly great aside from a male connection. Whilst that problem needs to be addressed, I'm afraid I don't care about the male:female writer/artist ratio at DC Comics, only the quality of those writers and artists DC employs.

@Vogelscheuche: Males went through that in high school because they read comics and had terrible bacne. I don't think the argument is so much about finding perfect writers as much as it finding balance in a tired genre.

before we know it, there'll be a comic 'slut-walk'.....

@Chaos Burn: We already have that. Finger tips in our arm pits with our heads down. The sweater vest helps the illusion we're ready to Hulk out. And make love.

@alevai said:

There are actually a ton of female comic book readers.  As Gail Simone said recently - if you can't see that the female fanbase is growing you just aren't reading the internet or going to conventions. In fact, if it weren't for men constantly telling us how we don't like comic books (or dinosaurs, or motorcycles, or action movies, or math or whatever) we would have no idea.  Maybe you don't know many female comic book fans, but I do.  I know more female comic book fans than male ones.There is so much misunderstanding and misogyny and fear being displayed on this one forum alone.  Do you not understand how you and your own attitude contributes to our alienation?  How this is why we're making a stink.  We aren't satisfied with the way things are for very valid reasons.  So no, we won't sit down and shut up and be satisfied with the paltry representation we currently have.  If this frightens you, you may want to consider why.  You as a straight white man are probably still going to be okay at the end of it.  What harm is there in showing some solidarity with your sisters in arms?  What we want does not have to come at your personal expense.  There's room for all different persectives.  If you don't understand where we're coming from, maybe for a second think it could be because you're a man who has never for 5 minute in a single day had to see and feel and debate the things that we have.  Try to keep an open mind and don't feel so threatened by our perspective.  Because honestly, the debate has only just started.  It's not going away.

What is it with feminists that automatically leads them to the bat-s*** crazy, anger-fueled conclusion that because people get tired of hearing tired, lazy arguments like this, that they are 'afraid' and 'threatened' of females? You claim to want unity, but you are blatantly targeting one group. It's not about this coming at 'our expense', I'd love to see more women in comic stores, besides the ones that come in briefly to giggle at the 'nerds'. You sound an awful lot like someone actively trying to be a victim; honestly the bit about males never having struggled or gone through hard times? Please. Because you get stared at a bit and treated with a bit of trepidation in comic stores, suddenly your struggles are that much more profound? Think about what a lot of male comic book readers went through in high school.

It should never be about filling some ridiculous quota, it should be about talent. Also, to those using the argument that men can't write female characters adequately, what makes you think women will be any better at writing male characters?

@Chaos Burn: Tell her flattery gets her nowhere.

The way I see it is, more diversity in creators leads to more diversity in characters and storytelling, and a nice genuineness that is difficult to reproduce artificially. 
 
While it'd be straight up bull to claim that a guy can't write a girl well, or a white guy couldn't write a hispanic guy - it'd also be an outright lie to claim that it doesn't lead to a certain sort of authenticity when people are writing what they know. Sure, none of us know what it's like to be Batman (unless some of you are holding out on me), but someone from a marginalized group might understand the problems of mutants in Marvels a little better. Again, let me make it clear, that doesn't mean it can't be done well by someone who is by all accounts incredibly priviliged - but it takes a little more work, effort, and awareness on their part that they don't really feel like putting the effort in for research/development.   People write and live in the world differently based on their own experiences, and as a result, diversity in your team leads to different ways of expressing experiences and different writing techniques. It's great for creativity.
 
And while there are plenty of guys who do a good job writing female characters, there's something I can't put my finger on that they just don't capture as well as females tend to. And with the female market for comics potentially growing at a huge rate (if the Internet is any indication), it's not a matter of hitting quotas so much as hiring people for a diversified audience.   It's not like comics are doing so phenomenally well that they can afford to stick to the same old same old.

I agree with those saying (including those at DC) that they'd rather hire the BEST rather than just actively seek to include more people of a certain gender.  That's not to say that I think that female creators lost out to jobs because they're inferior, because I don't.  I simply think that there's no kind of conspiracy going on here. 
 
In fact, the lack of female leads in the various DC titles is more concerning to me.

This is stupid. They better not hire lackluster writers just to fit the quota of women. Lets say these were firemen. I don't want the fire department hiring women that couldn't save me from a burning building just because some people complained there are no female firemen.

Madness! No one wants to read comics about icky girls and their cooties!

@inferiorego: The fact that it happened at every panel just shows how badly Dan Didio and whoever were at the first panel handled the situation. Instead of saying,

"We wanted to have the best writers on the books that we think they would do their best work on regardless. This does not mean Writers and artists like Amanda Conner or Bryan Q Miller won't get books in the future just at the moment we are focusing pushing the DCnU for its launch in September."

they tried to deflect the questions, bully their fans or played the victim. Since the announcement of the DCnU there have been these questions Comic Con should of been where all the fears were squashed, instead every night it seemed like Gail Simone had to run damage control for the crap that happened in their panels from the small things like Dan Didio's constant use of "Best Batgirl" when talking about Barbara Gordon to the huge like not just coming out and saying the deadlines for the first wave of the DCnU are tight and most writers and artist don't want that pressure.

When you think of it the fact that Gail Simone communicates better with the fans than the two "Faces" of DC is sad and a disgrace.

If all men could write female characters the way Terry Moore, Brian Wood or Greg Rucka do, I'd say gender doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, it's pretty obvious that many male writers don't have the first clue where to start when it comes to writing a genuine, convincing female character... so yeah, we definitely need more ladies on storytelling duties in mainstream comics. Gail Simone, Marjorie Liu, Kathryn Immonen and Kelly Sue DeConnick aren't nearly enough.  

This is so funny... 
I just went on a rant about the new Spider-Man and now this 
I think the only wy to truly bring women and minorities into the comics fold is to self publish and create properties so good they have no choice but to take on new talent 
Because lets face it DC and Marvel are in the money making business and will hire the talent that can bring the most bucks 
why do you think Bendis and Johns write everythin these days??

Been waiting for this story to make it to Comic Vine.   Ludicrous. Some of those asking questions had obvious agendas. you could tell by their tone and attitude. This isn’t about the best possible creators. It’s about quotas and irresponsible insinuations of sexism. Most of the bigger gripers know nothing about the inner workings of DC yet automatically throw sexism into the conversation. Do we know how many high quality women creators have knocked on DC’s door? Same for women characters. The truth is many books led by woman characters don’t sell good. When it comes down to it comics have never had a big female audience.If you have a small female audience it follows that you may have a smaller number of creators. We should encourage women to read comics but not force quotas by false assumptions and insinuations.  A larger female audience equals more comic readers and new perspectives. It's something ANY comic fan should want. But throwing this at DC without reasonably looking at the facts is sadly something we see all the time in our country these days (and not just in the comics industry). 

Wow DC, "Where the Ladies at?" seriously tho it would do DC some good with more creative genius like Gale working for them, I Hate Bane, but I love her Bane. Now how that is possible heck if I know, but Secret Six is one of my favorite DC titles which I am truly going to miss do to this relaunch/reboot.

My question is what's really the situation here, I would highly doubt that DC is turning to a "He Man Woman haters club" so what is it, is there a lack in Female talent out there? or do Woman feel reluctant to play by DC's rules?

no body said anything to marvel?

no body said anything to marvel?

@Feliciano2040 said:

@Fantasgasmic said:

I agree in principle but I find that when some men write women, or write about women (James Robinson, in Cry for Justice, Frank Miller in All Star Batman and Robin)... it's just juvenile. And although those authors may sell books for other reasons, and other aspects of their stories, if theirs are the primary voices for women in comics, you risk getting a wind tunnel effect; the ways characters are written get pushed more towards the extreme and less like a 3 dimensional character.

It's a legitimate concern for sure, but then again DC Comics is well aware of this and that's why the just don't screw up by making Frank Miller the regular writer of Wonder Woman. For my part I think we may be even underestimating some male writers who have proven to be very capable of writing female characters, such as Michael Avon Oeming who did Red Sonja, Christos Gage who writes Avengers Academy, a title with probably more women than men, as well as Peter Calloway who wrote Gotham City Sirens. I know, some of those don't even work at DC, but it goes to prove that in the comic book industry, men are just as capable to write women.

There are enough female comic book readers out there. The question is whether or not the number of women working in comics is directly proportional to the number of women who read those books.

There probably are quite a few women trying to get into the comic writing game, but at the minute with the comic industry in such a...tricky place, what with sales down and that, they are probably worried about taking risks with untested writers (whether they are male or female) so they are sticking with the old crowd.

When the sales pick up and the industry is back on track they will be willing to take more risks.

@Fantasgasmic: I wouldn't call Robinson a bad writer when it comes to women. His Justice League mostly contained women and they all felt interesting especially Donna Troy.