DC Gays

#1 Posted by Freezerburn (22 posts) - - Show Bio

So where are all the positive gay and lesbian role models in the DC Universe?

Especially when it comes to gay male heros, DC's falling behind. All of the gay characters are either minor or just have fallen out of the public eye. And then there are the ones that just aren't that great.

I mean, we've got the two ex-Guardians kicked out of Oa, but the rule-breaking little blue men who lost their jobs for loving each other don't make for good role models in life. And there's Terry Berg, the boy jumped in an alley and nearly killed for being gay. That certainly draws you out of the closet, right? There's the Piper, the Flash villain who goes back and forth between heroism and villainy. And there's the other villain-hero, Obsidian.

As far as I can tell, there's only Josiah Powers who would make a fairly decent role model.

Oh, oh, did I forget to mention the gorilla and the bodiless brain? Monsieur Mallah and The Brain. That's just weird.

#2 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Terry Berg definitely... nice to see he hasn't been forgotten...

there's also Apollo and The Midnighter, definitely openly gay and positive role models.

Rainmaker from Gen13 is a positive lesbian that comes to mind, though you could also state Jenny Sparks, Angie Spica and Mei-ling as Lesbian or bisexual role models.

there are probably tons more that can be noted, but those are the ones that comes to mind.

M

#3 Posted by Ms. Invisible (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is the biggest friggin' closet case. I'm not sure what people think when people think of Wonder Woman, but I think a positive gay role model when I do.

#4 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman and Robin? ;-)

#5 Posted by fesak (7061 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#6 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Ms. Invisible says:

"Wonder Woman is the biggest friggin' closet case. I'm not sure what people think when people think of Wonder Woman, but I think a positive gay role model when I do."

So, is she really a lesbian, or is that what you think?

#7 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/"

black cat! wow... that makes her so much hotter... naughty pussycat

#8 Posted by Freezerburn (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Methos says:

"Terry Berg definitely... nice to see he hasn't been forgotten...there's also Apollo and The Midnighter, definitely openly gay and positive role models.Rainmaker from Gen13 is a positive lesbian that comes to mind, though you could also state Jenny Sparks, Angie Spica and Mei-ling as Lesbian or bisexual role models.there are probably tons more that can be noted, but those are the ones that comes to mind.M"

Apollo and Midnighter and Jenny are from a different publisher, right? A branch-off of DC, right? I wasn't sure that it counted, but I guess it does.

fesak says:

"http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/"

A lot of the character profiles there show my point. Most of DC's gay characters are either out-of-print, evil, or the rare good guy who's still running strong.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 02:39:38

#9 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Freezerburn says:

"Apollo and Midnighter and Jenny are from a different publisher, right? A branch-off of DC, right? I wasn't sure that it counted, but I guess it does."

They're from Wildstorm, which is owned by DC, and is now and 'official' dimension in the DC 52 Multiverse...

so i'd say they count lol

M

#10 Posted by ScoodleDaddle (646 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm disappointed nobody has mentioned Renee Montoya and Batwoman.

#11 Posted by Freezerburn (22 posts) - - Show Bio

ScoodleDaddle says:

"I'm disappointed nobody has mentioned Renee Montoya and Batwoman."

Judging by the big press build-up from DC, I feel like her coming out was more for the sales than anything else.

#12 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"Ms. Invisible says:
"Wonder Woman is the biggest friggin' closet case. I'm not sure what people think when people think of Wonder Woman, but I think a positive gay role model when I do."

So, is she really a lesbian, or is that what you think?"

If anything I'd say she's BI

#13 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Colt Python says:

"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex.

#14 Posted by Hagane Enna (7450 posts) - - Show Bio

Colt Python says:

"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

For the same reason you need any hero.

#15 Posted by cpt_linger (2902 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom says:

"Batman and Robin? ;-)"

those tights are pretty... tight lol

#16 Posted by Agent Paradox 9 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."

Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex.

#17 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Agent Paradox 9 says:

"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."

Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "

Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that.

#18 Posted by Chameleone (8710 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/"

Huh, that's odd, that list doesn't have Mystique, one of the most blatant bi-sexuals, or Karma, an open lesbian.

#19 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#20 Posted by Final Arrow (24388 posts) - - Show Bio

Walks in, "Wow" walks out!

#21 Posted by Hagane Enna (7450 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"
Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."
Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "
Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "
You do realize that the opposite gender term is heterosexual, right?
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:33:58
#22 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"
Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."
Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "
Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "
.........Before I say ANYTHING I have to ask you, what exactly is your take on homosexual/lesbian lifestyles? Cause I really don't know what you mean by this.
#23 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is sexual orientation important? Why do they have to be, I'M GAY, HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY! There are characters who exhibit homosexual and lesbian tendencies and in a market directed towards a younger audience, I think leaving it up to them to interpret what a character's sexual preference is, (if they so choose to) is a good idea. Mystique shows Bi-Sexual tendencies but I don't need her to get up on a mountain and address to the world that she's Bi, Lesbian or Straight.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:30:58

#24 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Why is sexual orientation important? Why do they have to be, I'M GAY, HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY! There **are** characters who exhibit homosexual and lesbian tendencies and in a market directed towards a younger audience, I think leaving it up to them to interpret what a character's sexual preference is, (if they so choose to) is a good idea. Mystique shows Bi-Sexual tendencies but I don't need her to get up on a mountain and address to the world that she's Bi, Lesbian or Straight.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:30:58"
It's just as important as having African, Asian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. characters in comics. While the character's sexuality will inevitably draw attention to him/her, I'm not even looking for a character with that one thing going for him/her. There are ways to portray gay and lesbian relationships without having to overdo it.
#25 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Hagane Enna says:

"Phorqe says:
"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"
Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."
Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "
Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "

You do realize that the opposite gender term is hetersexual, right? "

No, I don't, I'm an idiot. I just started writing a damn thesis as to my view on this subject, but deleted it because, I really don't need to explain myself to you. I don't have a problem with gay superheroes. If you want to know why there aren't more prominent gay superheroes, take a nice long objective look at the world we live in. There lies your answers.

#26 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

White Mage says:

"Gambler says:
"Why is sexual orientation important? Why do they have to be, I'M GAY, HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY! There **are** characters who exhibit homosexual and lesbian tendencies and in a market directed towards a younger audience, I think leaving it up to them to interpret what a character's sexual preference is, (if they so choose to) is a good idea. Mystique shows Bi-Sexual tendencies but I don't need her to get up on a mountain and address to the world that she's Bi, Lesbian or Straight.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:30:58"
It's just as important as having African, Asian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. characters in comics. While the character's sexuality will inevitably draw attention to him/her, I'm not even looking for a character with that one thing going for him/her. There are ways to portray gay and lesbian relationships without having to overdo it. "

I guess thats where we agree to disagree, cause I don't believe it is. Your nationality has nothing to do with sex, being gay does.

#27 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

White Mage says:

"Phorqe says:
"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"
Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."
Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "
Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "
.........Before I say ANYTHING I have to ask you, what exactly is your take on homosexual/lesbian lifestyles? Cause I really don't know what you mean by this."

Do I need to put this in my damn profile or something? One of my best friends is gay. I used to live with lesbians. I've worked with and spoken with dozens of gay people. I've sat through the movie Shortbus. I just don't understand why it's so important for gay people to be represented in every aspect of media, especially a medium such as comic books which are typically children friendly. You don't need to explain heterosexuality to kids, because without it, none of us would be here.

#28 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"White Mage says:
"Gambler says:
"Why is sexual orientation important? Why do they have to be, I'M GAY, HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY! There **are** characters who exhibit homosexual and lesbian tendencies and in a market directed towards a younger audience, I think leaving it up to them to interpret what a character's sexual preference is, (if they so choose to) is a good idea. Mystique shows Bi-Sexual tendencies but I don't need her to get up on a mountain and address to the world that she's Bi, Lesbian or Straight.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:30:58"
It's just as important as having African, Asian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. characters in comics. While the character's sexuality will inevitably draw attention to him/her, I'm not even looking for a character with that one thing going for him/her. There are ways to portray gay and lesbian relationships without having to overdo it. "
I guess thats where we agree to disagree, cause I don't believe it is. Your nationality has nothing to do with sex, being gay does."
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if it's not a big deal, then why is it that there are so many straight couples, yet so little gay ones. However, due to the fact that gay and straight relationships are hardly considered the same, it doesn't really surprise me. But it would be nice to see some more gay/lesbian characters.
#29 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"White Mage says:
"Phorqe says:
"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"
Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."
Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "
Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "
.........Before I say ANYTHING I have to ask you, what exactly is your take on homosexual/lesbian lifestyles? Cause I really don't know what you mean by this. "
Do I need to put this in my damn profile or something? One of my best friends is gay. I used to live with lesbians. I've worked with and spoken with dozens of gay people. I've sat through the movie Shortbus. I just don't understand why it's so important for gay people to be represented in every aspect of media, especially a medium such as comic books which are typically children friendly. You don't need to explain heterosexuality to kids, because without it, none of us would be here. "
Just so we're clear, I really was just trying to see what you were talking about. Your comment following Agent Paradox's was pretty weird in my opinion. And considering that I don't know you like that, I just wanted to get some things worked out.
#30 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

He said being gay isn't about sex? What kind of backwards ass crap is that? Is being gay about guys dressing nicely and girls dressing like John Goodman and Rainbow flags and yellow equal signs and triangles? No, it's about sex, and has been for thousands of years.

#31 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus F'n Christ

#32 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"He said being gay isn't about sex? What kind of backwards ass crap is that? Is being gay about guys dressing nicely and girls dressing like John Goodman and Rainbow flags and yellow equal signs and triangles? No, it's about sex, and has been for thousands of years."
Now THIS is just biased. I don't know who you got your information from, but there's much more to it than wanting to screw someone. Unless of course that's just how you view gay/straight relationships in general. Then, that's just your business.
#33 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"Jesus F'n Christ"
What? I told you there was more to gay relationships than just sex. You've made it obvious that you're not a homophobe, so I'm not saying that you are. However, some of the comments you made, regardless of your intentions, have been a little "murky". It's best to go into more detail.
#34 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

So you've never had sex with a guy?

#35 Posted by KnightlyVengence (302 posts) - - Show Bio

Final Arrow says:

"Walks in, "Wow" walks out!"

That pretty much sums up my reaction...

#36 Posted by Superkitty (1086 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."

Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "

Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "

Straight=Heterosexual Notice the SEX part of that. So by that logic anyone, except asexual beings are going to tell kids about sex. But since SEX is part of asexual too, I guess you're screwed in any case.

#37 Posted by Freezerburn (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Phorqe says:

"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."

Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "

Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "

coughHeteroSEXualcough

Gambler says:

"Why is sexual orientation important? Why do they have to be, I'M GAY, HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY! There **are** characters who exhibit homosexual and lesbian tendencies and in a market directed towards a younger audience, I think leaving it up to them to interpret what a character's sexual preference is, (if they so choose to) is a good idea. Mystique shows Bi-Sexual tendencies but I don't need her to get up on a mountain and address to the world that she's Bi, Lesbian or Straight.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:30:58"

I don't think the character necessarily has to organize a gay pride rally and go around dancing to bad techno music at gay clubs, but I do feel like they need to be out, or their sexuality shouldn't have to be hidden. It doesn't need a whole issue dedicated to it, but a character's sexuality should be real. If there are married characters and heterosexual relationships, there should be same-sex relationships, too.

#38 Posted by KnightlyVengence (302 posts) - - Show Bio

In the end it's just up to the writer. They're gonna portray a character the way the imagined it, NOT based on the turn of social issues. If they imagined him as gay, they're gonna say so, if not? Then they're not.

If you want a character to be gay, and push the writer to do so, it's not going to be as good, because the storyline will be forced, because it wasn't their picture being described... I'm not taking a stand just pointing out the facts. Anyone see what I'm saying?

#39 Posted by Freezerburn (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and by the way, I think Marvel does well in the way of representation.

We've got Anole there, though the spelling of his name is rather unfortunate. We've also got Wiccan and Hulkling. These characters (and Northstar back when he was alive) helped young gay teenagers realize that there was nothing wrong with them and that they were in fact fully functional members of society even though they may or may not be accepted as such. Not to mention, they're super kick-ass people anyway.

Remember when Rockslide called Anole a sissy?

And Wiccan and Hulkling didn't really come out in a big bang, they're not running around fighting crime like "IwanthimtohealIwanthimtoheal, oh by the way, Mr. Super Skrull, I'm gay. Anyways, Iwanthimtoheal." or "We're the Young Avengers! And Billy and Teddy are gay." Their sexuality is subtly addressed and some people would actually not even realize they're dating. It takes careful reading to figure that out because they only ever call each other their boyfriend once in a while.

#40 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Static Shock says:
"Ms. Invisible says:
"Wonder Woman is the biggest friggin' closet case. I'm not sure what people think when people think of Wonder Woman, but I think a positive gay role model when I do."

So, is she really a lesbian, or is that what you think?"

If anything I'd say she's BI"

I don't know if I can agree with that. But, why do you think she's bi?

#41 Posted by Phorqe (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Superkitty says:

"Phorqe says:
"Agent Paradox 9 says:
"Phorqe says:
"Colt Python says:
"Why do we need gay heroes anyway?"

Good question. I was about to ask that myself. A lot of kids read comic books, and we don't have porn ads and such in them for that reason. While I understand the concept of kids understanding diversity and such, I don't see how telling kids about homosexuality is much different from just telling them about sex."

Mainly to help people like yourself realize that being gay isn't about sex. "

Gay= Homosexual. Notice the SEX part of that. "

Straight=Heterosexual Notice the SEX part of that. So by that logic anyone, except asexual beings are going to tell kids about sex. But since SEX is part of asexual too, I guess you're screwed in any case."

My whole point is that most comics are geared towards kids. I've never said there should be no gay comic book characters, I just don't see the NEED for them. As for the SEX in heterosexual, that is something a child will need to learn when the time is right, like when they ask, "Where do babies come from," and the parents feel the social responsibility to explain to them where babies come from without using one word answers like "The Stork," or "Heaven."

You don't think that if a kid sees two guy superheroes kissing, he won't have some questions? F this thread. I'm done.

#42 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter, Obsidian, Grace, Thunder and the new batwoman

#43 Posted by Superkitty (1086 posts) - - Show Bio

KnightlyVengence says:

"In the end it's just up to the writer. They're gonna portray a character the way the imagined it, NOT based on the turn of social issues. If they imagined him as gay, they're gonna say so, if not? Then they're not.If you want a character to be gay, and push the writer to do so, it's not going to be as good, because the storyline will be forced, because it wasn't their picture being described... I'm not taking a stand just pointing out the facts. Anyone see what I'm saying?"

I completely agree if the character is completely made up by the artist. I think some people have problems with well established characters that have been around are now gay. How sudden it is would depend on the writing and how the character behaved before.

It probably depends on the established character how it turned out that they're now gay. An executive may have looked for a writer who would portray them as gay or a writer may have asked permission to have a character this way or maybe readers wrote in and demanded it. But this has to be planned, for publishers want some kind of continuity for the character, possibly in different titles. One writer can't have the character be gay for their run and the next say they aren't the next. A story has to be approved and will be edited by an editor, who hopefully checks those things out. At least with the major publishers, a writer just can't write anything they want.

Plus there's sales considerations. If a publisher thinks something's "hot" then they'll accept/push for whatever that is. A writer may have a wonderful story, but the publisher may say "sorry, we have too many of that kind" or "I don't think it will sell" The writer can to some degree go somewhere else or self publish it (as long as no copyrighted chars. are in it, but they can always change the chars)

As per readers pushing characters to be gay, I don't know how much influence the readers have on characters. Stories shouldn't be democracies, but if enough people write letters, maybe. I don't know of any case like this. I think somehow publishers saw a demand for gay characters, so they nudged/pushed things in that direction.

Sad as it is, it's the publishers that have the final say. They put the money out for the paper to be printed and made into comics, etc. How much freedom the writer has is up to the publisher. This ranges from total freedom by self publishers to execs controlling just about everything.

#44 Posted by KnightlyVengence (302 posts) - - Show Bio

Superkitty says:

"KnightlyVengence says:
"In the end it's just up to the writer. They're gonna portray a character the way the imagined it, NOT based on the turn of social issues. If they imagined him as gay, they're gonna say so, if not? Then they're not.If you want a character to be gay, and push the writer to do so, it's not going to be as good, because the storyline will be forced, because it wasn't their picture being described... I'm not taking a stand just pointing out the facts. Anyone see what I'm saying?"

I completely agree if the character is completely made up by the artist. I think some people have problems with well established characters that have been around are now gay. How sudden it is would depend on the writing and how the character behaved before.

It probably depends on the established character how it turned out that they're now gay. An executive may have looked for a writer who would portray them as gay or a writer may have asked permission to have a character this way or maybe readers wrote in and demanded it. But this has to be planned, for publishers want some kind of continuity for the character, possibly in different titles. One writer can't have the character be gay for their run and the next say they aren't the next. A story has to be approved and will be edited by an editor, who hopefully checks those things out. At least with the major publishers, a writer just can't write anything they want.

Plus there's sales considerations. If a publisher thinks something's "hot" then they'll accept/push for whatever that is. A writer may have a wonderful story, but the publisher may say "sorry, we have too many of that kind" or "I don't think it will sell" The writer can to some degree go somewhere else or self publish it (as long as no copyrighted chars. are in it, but they can always change the chars)

As per readers pushing characters to be gay, I don't know how much influence the readers have on characters. Stories shouldn't be democracies, but if enough people write letters, maybe. I don't know of any case like this. I think somehow publishers saw a demand for gay characters, so they nudged/pushed things in that direction.

Sad as it is, it's the publishers that have the final say. They put the money out for the paper to be printed and made into comics, etc. How much freedom the writer has is up to the publisher. This ranges from total freedom by self publishers to execs controlling just about everything.

"

Yeah I think we got the same idea. The only time I can think of where the readers had a say, was when they were asked who to kill, Jason Todd or Dick Grayson. But that was different because DC actually asked for the opinion of the readers.

#45 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

KnightlyVengence says:

"Superkitty says:
"KnightlyVengence says:
"In the end it's just up to the writer. They're gonna portray a character the way the imagined it, NOT based on the turn of social issues. If they imagined him as gay, they're gonna say so, if not? Then they're not.If you want a character to be gay, and push the writer to do so, it's not going to be as good, because the storyline will be forced, because it wasn't their picture being described... I'm not taking a stand just pointing out the facts. Anyone see what I'm saying?"

I completely agree if the character is completely made up by the artist. I think some people have problems with well established characters that have been around are now gay. How sudden it is would depend on the writing and how the character behaved before.

It probably depends on the established character how it turned out that they're now gay. An executive may have looked for a writer who would portray them as gay or a writer may have asked permission to have a character this way or maybe readers wrote in and demanded it. But this has to be planned, for publishers want some kind of continuity for the character, possibly in different titles. One writer can't have the character be gay for their run and the next say they aren't the next. A story has to be approved and will be edited by an editor, who hopefully checks those things out. At least with the major publishers, a writer just can't write anything they want.

Plus there's sales considerations. If a publisher thinks something's "hot" then they'll accept/push for whatever that is. A writer may have a wonderful story, but the publisher may say "sorry, we have too many of that kind" or "I don't think it will sell" The writer can to some degree go somewhere else or self publish it (as long as no copyrighted chars. are in it, but they can always change the chars)

As per readers pushing characters to be gay, I don't know how much influence the readers have on characters. Stories shouldn't be democracies, but if enough people write letters, maybe. I don't know of any case like this. I think somehow publishers saw a demand for gay characters, so they nudged/pushed things in that direction.

Sad as it is, it's the publishers that have the final say. They put the money out for the paper to be printed and made into comics, etc. How much freedom the writer has is up to the publisher. This ranges from total freedom by self publishers to execs controlling just about everything.

"

Yeah I think we got the same idea. The only time I can think of where the readers had a say, was when they were asked who to kill, Jason Todd or Dick Grayson. But that was different because DC actually asked for the opinion of the readers.

"

Jason was aked to the readers.

Dick was chosen by Didio to kill, but everyone was against that idea

#46 Posted by KnightlyVengence (302 posts) - - Show Bio

Nighthunter says:

"KnightlyVengence says:
"Superkitty says:
"KnightlyVengence says:
"In the end it's just up to the writer. They're gonna portray a character the way the imagined it, NOT based on the turn of social issues. If they imagined him as gay, they're gonna say so, if not? Then they're not.If you want a character to be gay, and push the writer to do so, it's not going to be as good, because the storyline will be forced, because it wasn't their picture being described... I'm not taking a stand just pointing out the facts. Anyone see what I'm saying?"

I completely agree if the character is completely made up by the artist. I think some people have problems with well established characters that have been around are now gay. How sudden it is would depend on the writing and how the character behaved before.

It probably depends on the established character how it turned out that they're now gay. An executive may have looked for a writer who would portray them as gay or a writer may have asked permission to have a character this way or maybe readers wrote in and demanded it. But this has to be planned, for publishers want some kind of continuity for the character, possibly in different titles. One writer can't have the character be gay for their run and the next say they aren't the next. A story has to be approved and will be edited by an editor, who hopefully checks those things out. At least with the major publishers, a writer just can't write anything they want.

Plus there's sales considerations. If a publisher thinks something's "hot" then they'll accept/push for whatever that is. A writer may have a wonderful story, but the publisher may say "sorry, we have too many of that kind" or "I don't think it will sell" The writer can to some degree go somewhere else or self publish it (as long as no copyrighted chars. are in it, but they can always change the chars)

As per readers pushing characters to be gay, I don't know how much influence the readers have on characters. Stories shouldn't be democracies, but if enough people write letters, maybe. I don't know of any case like this. I think somehow publishers saw a demand for gay characters, so they nudged/pushed things in that direction.

Sad as it is, it's the publishers that have the final say. They put the money out for the paper to be printed and made into comics, etc. How much freedom the writer has is up to the publisher. This ranges from total freedom by self publishers to execs controlling just about everything.

"

Yeah I think we got the same idea. The only time I can think of where the readers had a say, was when they were asked who to kill, Jason Todd or Dick Grayson. But that was different because DC actually asked for the opinion of the readers.

"

Jason was aked to the readers.

Dick was chosen by Didio to kill, but everyone was against that idea

"

I thought that there was disagreement between the writers so the let the readers choose...

#47 Posted by Chameleone (8710 posts) - - Show Bio

White Mage says:

"Gambler says:
"White Mage says:
"Gambler says:
"Why is sexual orientation important? Why do they have to be, I'M GAY, HEY LOOK AT ME I'M GAY! There **are** characters who exhibit homosexual and lesbian tendencies and in a market directed towards a younger audience, I think leaving it up to them to interpret what a character's sexual preference is, (if they so choose to) is a good idea. Mystique shows Bi-Sexual tendencies but I don't need her to get up on a mountain and address to the world that she's Bi, Lesbian or Straight.
Post Edited:2007-12-04 07:30:58"
It's just as important as having African, Asian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. characters in comics. While the character's sexuality will inevitably draw attention to him/her, I'm not even looking for a character with that one thing going for him/her. There are ways to portray gay and lesbian relationships without having to overdo it. "
I guess thats where we agree to disagree, cause I don't believe it is. Your nationality has nothing to do with sex, being gay does."
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if it's not a big deal, then why is it that there are so many straight couples, yet so little gay ones. However, due to the fact that gay and straight relationships are hardly considered the same, it doesn't really surprise me. But it would be nice to see some more gay/lesbian characters."

Lesbians, i could go with. :D

#48 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

KnightlyVengence says:

"Nighthunter says:
"KnightlyVengence says:
"Superkitty says:
"KnightlyVengence says:
"In the end it's just up to the writer. They're gonna portray a character the way the imagined it, NOT based on the turn of social issues. If they imagined him as gay, they're gonna say so, if not? Then they're not.If you want a character to be gay, and push the writer to do so, it's not going to be as good, because the storyline will be forced, because it wasn't their picture being described... I'm not taking a stand just pointing out the facts. Anyone see what I'm saying?"

I completely agree if the character is completely made up by the artist. I think some people have problems with well established characters that have been around are now gay. How sudden it is would depend on the writing and how the character behaved before.

It probably depends on the established character how it turned out that they're now gay. An executive may have looked for a writer who would portray them as gay or a writer may have asked permission to have a character this way or maybe readers wrote in and demanded it. But this has to be planned, for publishers want some kind of continuity for the character, possibly in different titles. One writer can't have the character be gay for their run and the next say they aren't the next. A story has to be approved and will be edited by an editor, who hopefully checks those things out. At least with the major publishers, a writer just can't write anything they want.

Plus there's sales considerations. If a publisher thinks something's "hot" then they'll accept/push for whatever that is. A writer may have a wonderful story, but the publisher may say "sorry, we have too many of that kind" or "I don't think it will sell" The writer can to some degree go somewhere else or self publish it (as long as no copyrighted chars. are in it, but they can always change the chars)

As per readers pushing characters to be gay, I don't know how much influence the readers have on characters. Stories shouldn't be democracies, but if enough people write letters, maybe. I don't know of any case like this. I think somehow publishers saw a demand for gay characters, so they nudged/pushed things in that direction.

Sad as it is, it's the publishers that have the final say. They put the money out for the paper to be printed and made into comics, etc. How much freedom the writer has is up to the publisher. This ranges from total freedom by self publishers to execs controlling just about everything.

"

Yeah I think we got the same idea. The only time I can think of where the readers had a say, was when they were asked who to kill, Jason Todd or Dick Grayson. But that was different because DC actually asked for the opinion of the readers.

"

Jason was aked to the readers.

Dick was chosen by Didio to kill, but everyone was against that idea

"

I thought that there was disagreement between the writers so the let the readers choose...

"

if you mean the jason case, no it was due to his lack of popularity and it was only the option "should he die or no?"

NW was chosen by didio to die to make the trynity mend things. This was reversed because the writers didn't want it to happen. If you read infinite crisis you'll see that the idea was for him to die

#49 Posted by Ms. Invisible (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"Gambler says:
"Static Shock says:
"Ms. Invisible says:
"Wonder Woman is the biggest friggin' closet case. I'm not sure what people think when people think of Wonder Woman, but I think a positive gay role model when I do."

So, is she really a lesbian, or is that what you think?"

If anything I'd say she's BI"

I don't know if I can agree with that. But, why do you think she's bi?"

Her sexuality's never been established, hard to say.

#50 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

I forgot to mention Poison Ivy she is bi

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