DC Batman Theory *MASSIVE SPOILERS*

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Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

This blog is dedicated to the future of Bruce Wayne, and I'm pretty sure when Grant Morrison said Bruce Wayne would never be the same..he was damn right.
The past two days I've taken time looking over a bit of Grant Morrisons works on Batman and his run on the Seven Soldiers of Victory. These titles arcs I had gone through where Batman Arkham Asylum,Batman The Cult by Jim Starlin,Batman Gothic,Detective Comics 618 and 619,Batman Dark Knight Dark City by Peter Milligan, The Killing Joke by Alan Moore, 52, Batman RIP, Battle For the Cowl Arkham Asylum, and Batman and Robin. Of course I have read through most of these series but a good friend of mine reccomended that I look through the first series of books, most published in 1988-1990 and noticed a HUGE tie in that leads to what's being published today in Batman and Robin written by the same guy who had a had in the books from 20 years ago. Grant Morrison I figure if I use pictures it will easily save me time in this thread compared to writing extremely long paragraphs and wasting your time when you can just stare at the pretty picttures :) Also this is a theory open to debate but keep your flaming out if that's what you've come to do. 
 
For the first part of my theory, STAY AWAY FROM MIRRORS WHEN IN THE DCU..for what reasons? mainly these reasons some of them have led to madness in the dcu for people like the Joker and the new Black Mask Jeremiah Arkham the image has a little profanity in it..why? because it was what was going through my mind at the time of seeing this all happen.
 


 

Not the Obeah Man himself, no I noticed a recurring theme of mirrors in transformative trauma much like what the Joker underwent in his flashbacks via The Killing Joke, where he only went insane after looking at his own reflection. In Morrison's Arkham Asylum (source of the panel where we find out he claims to be possessed by a voodoo Loa), Amadeus Arkham's journal reveals that a Depression-era killer named "Mad Dog" Hawkins, whose facial structure and laughter evokes the Joker and who mutilated the faces and genitalia of his victims, was killed by Amadeus in the asylum - afterwards, he thought that Hawkins was laughing at him from inside the mirrors, and taped over them... until he eventually peeled back the tape, looked in the mirror, and went insane. Jeremiah Arkham looked into the *exact same mirror* just before he developed the Black Mask split persona... this happened in the same one-shot that introduced Narcissus, and had No-Face painting the Joker-like face.

Professor Pyg is meant to evoke the Joker's ringmaster-from-hell persona and even uses the same circus from The Killing Joke - and he mutilates the faces of his victims (and maybe the sexual organs too, given his psychosexual ramblings) - and his last lines... well, just look at the image macro.
 
 

 
 
Crazy is it not? 
 
Now on to the next, the next being Amadeus Arkham,Mad Dog Hawkins, and Barbatos the evil Man-Bat.
 



 Another crazy thing I noticed during the madness that is A Serious House on Serious Earth..Now for what tortures Amadeus through the Mirrors, Barbatos.
 


Now for the biggest part of my Theory, I've read a few Grant Morrison interviews on various websites about the current events of Batman and Robin only out of curiosity to see if he'd reveal anything, than I found this gem and everything was opening up to a much larger picture. The picture being this one.
 


It's crazy yet at the same time it all seems plausible, due to an issue of Batman and Robin where we found something in Batman's cave that looked FAR too familiar to miss!.
 

 Extremely familiar right?


 
This could be true due to most of the New Gods returning at the end of Final Crisis 7, the only two that didn't return would be Darkseid and Orion.it's all making sense right?
 

Barbatos is tied into the prophecies of the Crime Bible, book of the Darkseid-worshipping Intergang - the ceremony of the bat, as seen in 52. Until Barbatos was named, all signs pointed towards the faceless devil worshipped by Hurt and his cohorts to be Darkseid himself.

Barbatos is the Fifth World equivalent of Darkseid... therefore, Batman MUST be the Fifth World equivalent of Orion... the forsaken son of the ultimate evil, born at his cruel hands (in Batman's case, created in Crime Alley - Gotham is, after all, "a grid designed to create Batman", and Barbatos IS Gotham) and then cast out of the dark lord's realm (Apokolips/Gotham)... so alike his father, yet destined to stalwartly oppose, and eventually defeat him. Like Orion, Batman is a master of the hunt - the masked manhunter.

All that Morrison has put Batman through is a baptism-of-fire meant to prove him worthy of this - the EXACT same thing he put Shiloh Norman through to prove worthy of being the Mr. Miracle of the Fifth World, Omega Sanction and all.

 
 

Now with that said and done..there's one person left to talk about and that would be Desaad, Darkseids adviser and master of torture, and guess who this all ties back to? the freakin Obeah Man that Murdered Tim Drakes mom and paralyzed Tim Drake's father!
 

If you do not believe that these men have anything to do with Darkseid, check this scan from the Terror Titans.
 


With that said, my theory is over..Feel free to discuss it and ask me any questions if you have them..I hope it turns out this way because I sure as hell am loving the idea.
 


#1 Posted by LT1085 (3658 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth:  Can you compress your theory into a sentence or two?
#2 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@LT1085: LOL, erghhhhh it'd be best if you could read the whole thing, but Batman is going to be the new Orion and Barbatos/Dr Hurt is going to become the new Darkseid..and Joker was driven mad by the voodoo loa/new gods and it spread out throughout the mirrors in the DCU infecting others minds as well.
#3 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15258 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting theory good job Sloth
#4 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Son_of_Magnus: It's funny that you comment this, if this theory is true, the guy you called an A-Hole might have given the guy who killed Tim Drake's mom one of the biggest things in DC.
#5 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2727 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting but I doubt it'd go that way.

#6 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas: Why?
#7 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2727 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" @Gylan Thomas: Why? "
Erm.....
Just really doesn't seem like some thing DC would do.
Plus statistically the fact you've developed the theory alone makes it unlikely that Morrisons had exactly the same idea. Although it does seem far enough away from an actual Batman story that it would eb the sort of thing Morrison would come up with.
#8 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15258 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:

" @Son_of_Magnus: It's funny that you comment this, if this theory is true, the guy you called an A-Hole might have given the guy who killed Tim Drake's mom one of the biggest things in DC. "


Hey I like Morrison but I have my criticism with all my favorite writers maybe the A word is to much ..... ok way to much but I was mad at the time. But hey if it gets Tim more air time it's ok with me =D
   
#9 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" @Gylan Thomas: Why? "
Erm..... Just really doesn't seem like some thing DC would do. Plus statistically the fact you've developed the theory alone makes it unlikely that Morrisons had exactly the same idea. Although it does seem far enough away from an actual Batman story that it would eb the sort of thing Morrison would come up with. "
Why though? Morrison has constantly said that Batman would be changed forever, so why not in this way? with his writing style it's very possible.
#10 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

Any other thoughts? I seriously put alot of effort into this..

#11 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the effort you went through, and the detail. and it's also a great theory.
 
but I hope it doesn't turn out that way, because i like my Bruce as Batman.

#12 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: I like Bruce as a character and support anything that happens to him, but Orion could be a cool twist, any thoughts about the what could be origin of Joker's madness?
#13 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth: not particularly, but something else that might help support you theory is this rip hunter, chalk board. which says something about Darkseid's plan, and maybe he is somehow involved in this plot.
 

#14 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Caligula: I'm guessing his plan is to live on through Barbatos and the Bat ritual. But that's a guess.
#15 Posted by spiderguylll (620 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice work, it could happen. Hell, it most likely will

#16 Posted by Nighthunter (28580 posts) - - Show Bio

awesome theory

#17 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter: Thanks, it means alot coming from the Bat authority on this website :P
#18 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@spiderguylll: Thank you.
#19 Posted by The Sadhu (853 posts) - - Show Bio

I very good theory... enjoyed reading it!
#20 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Sadhu: Appreciated
#21 Posted by mouradb101 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey guys. Been a longtime comicvine user, but this is my first time posting! Anyways, I felt really compelled to point out a reference to Orion. A few days ago, I was reading Batman and Robin #10. I found two mentions of Orion. When Batman and Robin were investigating the paintings in Wayne Manor and come across the painting of the American Revolutionary, Darius Wayne, Dick mentions the "constellation of orion" in the painting. Later in the issue, when investigating the Wayne Manor library Batman and Robin come across a fireplace. On the mantle is a decorative pattern that Batman states recreates the "three stars of orion's belt", which opens a secret passageway. The clues just seemed to stick out to me. I felt that it really couldn't be coincidence, considering that the writer is Grant Morrison and he loves leaving these little clues. Of all the plot devices he could have used, he specifically made references to Orion which just struck me. Anyway, it could be nothing but I just thought I should point it out.

#22 Posted by Nighthunter (28580 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" @Nighthunter: Thanks, it means alot coming from the Bat authority on this website :P "
I'm the bat authority? Cool!
#23 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter: I always considered you the biggest Wayne fan here.
 

 
#24 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@mouradb101 said:
" Hey guys. Been a longtime comicvine user, but this is my first time posting! Anyways, I felt really compelled to point out a reference to Orion. A few days ago, I was reading Batman and Robin #10. I found two mentions of Orion. When Batman and Robin were investigating the paintings in Wayne Manor and come across the painting of the American Revolutionary, Darius Wayne, Dick mentions the "constellation of orion" in the painting. Later in the issue, when investigating the Wayne Manor library Batman and Robin come across a fireplace. On the mantle is a decorative pattern that Batman states recreates the "three stars of orion's belt", which opens a secret passageway. The clues just seemed to stick out to me. I felt that it really couldn't be coincidence, considering that the writer is Grant Morrison and he loves leaving these little clues. Of all the plot devices he could have used, he specifically made references to Orion which just struck me. Anyway, it could be nothing but I just thought I should point it out. "
Honestly, that's something I've never paid attention to and didn't even notice, that just furthers the point of what the possible future of Wayne can be, I'm gonna look through my issue and try and get the scans of them in a few minutes..Hopefully with the coming issues of Batman and Robin  and the return of Bruce Wayne we can see what Dr.Hurt does to further prove that Barbatos/Him can prove to be Darkseid.
#25 Posted by War Killer (19963 posts) - - Show Bio

First off....DANG!!!!!!!!!! How the heck did you wrap your head around all of that Sloth?!?!? (Great job by the way, that is one of those really weird, creepy, freaky, and just awesome theory's out there)
 
But one question: What happened to Batman just being a guy who saw his parents die and decided to dress up like a bat and fight crime, was that just too simple or something? xD
 
And does anyone here have something for a headache? Because this did a number on mine :P

#26 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@mouradb101: Found what you were talking about, I have to say AWESOME!
 




@War Killer said:
" First off....DANG!!!!!!!!!! How the heck did you wrap your head around all of that Sloth?!?!? (Great job by the way, that is one of those really weird, creepy, freaky, and just awesome theory's out there)  But one question: What happened to Batman just being a guy who saw his parents die and decided to dress up like a bat and fight crime, was that just too simple or something? xD  And does anyone here have something for a headache? Because this did a number on mine :P "
Well first my friend who's a huge Batman fan that I live by was talking to me on AIM and noticed a recurring trend when he was reading Batman and Robin about things he'd noticed in past books written by Grant Morrison about Batman, that being Barbatos the Bat-Demon and the Miagani tribe. He told me to check out those books and see if what he saw was just messing with him or was it some sort of big plot, so I started reading other Morrison titles for clues and pre existing knowledge of Seven Soldiers of Victory and Final Crisis came into play after the weird enough hints about the new gods and what not.
 
My answer to your question is It's freakin Grant Morrison, he wants to always add something more than what you think about the character and always adds small hints in his work, one of the reasons why he's my favorite is because of this.
 
Second is that a good or bad headache? :P
#27 Posted by War Killer (19963 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth: I don't think I could ever figure all of that stuff out like that xD
 
You know I see this stuff, and it makes me wonder if that guys is crazy or if he's just crazy-brilliant.
 
Good xD lol
 
#28 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer: LOL I felt like Bat-Man the entire time I was looking at this stuff I felt like a hero! :P
 
The latter, deffinetly.
#29 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
This is awesome.
Moderator
#30 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2727 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" @Gylan Thomas: Why? "
Erm..... Just really doesn't seem like some thing DC would do. Plus statistically the fact you've developed the theory alone makes it unlikely that Morrisons had exactly the same idea. Although it does seem far enough away from an actual Batman story that it would eb the sort of thing Morrison would come up with. "
Why though? Morrison has constantly said that Batman would be changed forever, so why not in this way? with his writing style it's very possible. "
I'm not sayin' it's impossible. Just don't reckon it's the way they'd go. Very interesting theory though and I can it makes sense too. 
If DC did go this way I don't think it'd last.

#31 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gylan Thomas said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" @Gylan Thomas said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" @Gylan Thomas: Why? "
Erm..... Just really doesn't seem like some thing DC would do. Plus statistically the fact you've developed the theory alone makes it unlikely that Morrisons had exactly the same idea. Although it does seem far enough away from an actual Batman story that it would eb the sort of thing Morrison would come up with. "
Why though? Morrison has constantly said that Batman would be changed forever, so why not in this way? with his writing style it's very possible. "
I'm not sayin' it's impossible. Just don't reckon it's the way they'd go. Very interesting theory though and I can it makes sense too.  If DC did go this way I don't think it'd last. "
Why? most fans like change if it gives good development.
#32 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" This is awesome. "
Isn't it? I hope more people see this and wonder the same thing I am.
#33 Posted by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

Top stuff :-) A+

#34 Posted by Clutch (2835 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice Work.
Orion as Batman,I would like. This reminds me of the episode of JLU when they teamed up to help Flash,IDK.
lol

#35 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

#36 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

dude awesome theory but...u seriously need to get laid

#37 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Darkchild said:
" dude awesome theory but...u seriously need to get laid "
I expected that from you..butthole.
#38 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

Look who's being mentioned again!
 

#39 Posted by danhimself (22278 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth:   remind me to read this in a few days when I'm in more of a reading mood
Online
#40 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself: Okay lol.
#41 Posted by VaizD (245 posts) - - Show Bio

You pretty much just blew my mind, man. A LOT of this makes sense, and seems very morrison-y.

#42 Posted by TheEverLovinThing (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Well thought out, it's good. 
 
But what if a lot of fans don't like that,? If Grant DID do this, that might cause a rupture in a lot of fans that like Batman being a normal human and beign able to do all he's done. 
 
Personally, I like Batman how he is. But if Grant wants to risk possibly millions of angry fans... Well... :P

#43 Posted by Jord (53 posts) - - Show Bio

freaking insane!  wow.  aren't these riddles and puzzles so much fun!  but the ramifications... it certainly would be a huge risk for DC, especially if most people are hoping Bruce will return as Batman.  Also, wouldn't becoming a cosmic hero pull him away from Gotham, his home and the city he has sworn to clean up?  Ooh, but wait, perhaps that is part of Darkseid's plan, so that true evil can reign in Gotham with Bruce being gone for so long... 
 
geraldthesloth, do you like planetary? this theory of yours reminds me of a possible pattern or symmetry within the art layouts of that book....  there may be a mystery there too.
#44 Posted by tamaranorbust (53 posts) - - Show Bio

Very cool!   Going to watch to see if you turn out to be right.
#45 Posted by junkmasterzero (257 posts) - - Show Bio

In the Barbatos ceremony depicted in Dark Knight, Dark City, it's Thomas Jefferson, not Wayne.  Just Saying.

#46 Posted by Nighthunter (28580 posts) - - Show Bio

Then again, not even Morrison has balls big enough to change Batman so much

#47 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19714 posts) - - Show Bio

and I thought I was a paranoid

#48 Posted by squiresmadnessmachine (303 posts) - - Show Bio

i wish i could have read all of the stuff you put there and all though it is interesting i think your looking to hard into things what makes batman great is that he is a normal man who does great things. 
he doesnt need god like powers or ties to them even though you sure did some great detective work to support your theroy. basically i dont really like grant morrison so anything he does i am not really a fan of  
i just want the batman back that i loved the detective who had the best villians of anyone (except spiderman) i just want the real batman back grant morrison should just stick to crazy titles and leave the great ones to a writer who doesnt mess things up.
#49 Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not a christian, but I find certain aspects of what Grant is doing with BATMAN to be similiar to the story of Jesus. R.I.P. and ROBW are why I say that.
#50 Posted by Dark Walker (477 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth   that was a very interesting theory, haven't read it until now.  Fortunately I think we now know this isn't the case thank god, I wouldn't want Bruce being a New God...I haven't been thrilled with everything Morrison is doing with Batman but man that would really piss a lot of people off.  DC might think Morrison is a God and letting him run amok but even they wouldn't let him do that.  I hope... 
Darkseid doesn't need to be so deeply woven into the Batman myths, he's not one of Batman's rogues, Batman usually only tangles with Darkseid when he's hanging out with Superman.
 
@batman_is_god   I get what you're saying, "death" and "resurrection" and all. 

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