Are Women Under-represented in the DC Relaunch?

Posted by cosmo111687 (1463 posts) - - Show Bio

In lieu of this controversy, I wanted to compile some information in order to see just how women characters are represented on the covers of DC's September launch as compared to men. 
 
You can see my findings on Female Characters here and on Male Characters here
 
 What do you guys think? Are female characters under represented in the new DC Universe? Or do you think that the complaints are over-blown and DC Women have never been given a much fairer representation than ever before?

#1 Posted by King Quisling (1980 posts) - - Show Bio

Part of me wants to say "Is your mom under represented in my pants?" but that would be rude. But yeah, female characters have always been second string characters. Regradless of company. You'll have more male title characters than female.
#2 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's a case of under-representation, they're launching a new line, throwing a variety of their best and most unique properties (or at least what they think are said properties) at the readers and letting us decide which ones stick it out...people don't buy comics with female protagonists, or at least that's what sales figures seem to say so people should be more thankful DC puts out titles featuring women then going the Marvel tactic and just putting out the most popular stuff over and over again, at least DC tries to mix it up

Moderator
#3 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

yes, they are under represented as a whole but only b/c Women are just a small part of the demographic in comics although they are growing.
 I dont know how to view the link and the woman discussion over female heroes, i prefer to see it on a video since it is hard to tell the tone of the individual and who is being confrontational.
 
I think that women heroes should be in more comics some in their own books, i feel for the little girl who dressed up as Stephanie Brown Batgirl b/c she is one of the few characters that seems to have a good story that wont be seen again in the reboot anytime soon. 
 
I agree with more female heroes being on covers but i dont know what cover the woman was discussing and if there is a reason why female heroes should be on a specific cover. 
 
In the end i dont think female titles should equal their male counterpart put it sure as hell, shouldnt be at 1% now that i think about it 5 titles of 52 isnt really 1% but a lil closer almost  10%. 
There are plenty of female characters that could carry their own title or be a central character in a comic, aint no excuse for DC not to have at least 5 to 8 specific gender targeted  titles for the small female demographic.   

 http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/10/those-52-dc-comics-issue-ones-and-what-and-who-is-missing/

Catwoman
Batgirl (would have been better if they kept Stephanie Brown)
Supergirl 
Birds of Prey
Wonder Woman
 
 O_o

Teen Titan could easily give spot light time on the female characters there is a market for them especially if you look at comics like the Runaways as any indication.
 
Sadly we may not see many female heroes and titles and the excuse of not having enough women in the comic industry is kinda stale excuse. We dont have aliens and monsters writing for DC or Marvel and yet they are written in stories. I would like for more diversity for women and ethnic groups in comics and i dont believe you need a token woman/ethnic writer to do it, all you need is a good respectful writer with a competent knowledge of comics and understanding of the world around.
 
 
I would encourage women to take up what seemed like a mocking tone  challenge  from the panel to the women submitting their work b/c i find it hard to believe that there are no women writers in the past with superior stories, scripts then those of their male counterpart especially when dealing with the female gender. Either way if the females are displeased i suggest they start collecting back issues for stories, its what i do most often. Also there are other comic companies with female titles that can help fill the DC cap.

#4 Posted by Samimista (21002 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like how some women in comics are eye candy for men. There needs to be more strong independent women for the female readers.

#5 Posted by B'Town (2336 posts) - - Show Bio

DC has a growing female readership, I think BECAUSE they have more books out that women want to read which include more heroines and villainess'. I use to read more Marvel books and have slowly over the past three years become a much bigger DC fan and that is because of Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, Secret Six, Zatanna, Birds of Prey not to mention Detective Comics having the kahunas to feature BATWOMAN for a long run with the Question as her second feature.

Marvel can't come close to a line up like this. Just think they gave us that piece of shat X-Women. (shakes head)

The industry has a growing number of girls/women picking up comics and what the Publishers need to know is, the more comics they offer us women and girls the larger this female fan base will grow. So, these books will not always appeal to the male reader. I say so effin what!

Market them and put faith in them by ensuring they get the best writers and artists and this fan base of girls reading comics will continue to grow. There really needs to be a continued push to find great women writers and artists, who is the new Gail Simone, DC? Find her and give her a chance.

#6 Edited by utotheg38 (18861 posts) - - Show Bio
@Samimista said:

I don't like how some women in comics are eye candy for men. There needs to be more strong independent women for the female readers.

That same thing can be said about men(except for the independent and underrepresented part)
#7 Posted by B'Town (2336 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Quisling said:

Part of me wants to say "Is your mom under represented in my pants?" but that would be rude. But yeah, female characters have always been second string characters. Regradless of company. You'll have more male title characters than female.

Yeah that would be rude.

#8 Edited by Osiris1428 (1347 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised that DC has so many solo titles staring black males in this reboot. But DC certainly does a better job attempting to push female characters.

#9 Posted by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.

#10 Posted by utotheg38 (18861 posts) - - Show Bio
@turoksonofstone said:
Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.
Eventually they will start killing men............
#11 Posted by RazzaTazz (8968 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they are gaining more representation so it is going in the right direction, even if the numbers are still a little skewed.

#12 Posted by Final Arrow (24388 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait to see the Huntress Run.

#13 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:

Can't wait to see the Huntress Run.

Oh my god, I know. Probably what I'm most looking forward to. 
Moderator
#14 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone said:

Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.

umm, I just looked it up and the human ratio is 101 men to 100 women, so actually they don't unless by "us" you're referring to some other third gender you represent

Moderator
#15 Posted by Evpraksiya (260 posts) - - Show Bio

The under representation isn't a problem as long as they are not show as sluts or in need of a men to accomplish her mission.

#16 Posted by GundamHeavyarms (695 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, should there be more diversity in comics, absolutely, both on the creative end and in the actual books.  Some of us guys aren't all of the fanboyish boys club mentality.  I would like to see more black, asian, and hispanic heroes in the limelight as well as women and LGBT characters too.  However, there is a problem with it, when you have diversity for the sake of it, you delve into quotas and where you have quotas you have tokenism and tokenism is just as bad as no diversity at all.   In an ideal landscape there would be no quotas to fill, characters would be there because they fit the story, creators would be hired because of their record of work.  It would be organic and not political.  The woman in the batgirl costume should have asked those questions, I would have asked them myself.

#17 Posted by danhimself (22712 posts) - - Show Bio

not really if you look at all the women being shown they're doing a much better job than Marvel is....Batgirl, Catwoman, and Wonder Woman all have ongoings...Huntress has a mini...plus all the women that are heavily featured on team books like Harley Quinn, Starfire, and Wonder Girl....what's Marvel offer?  Ms. Marvel barely showing up in Avengers and Storm barely showing up in X-men

#18 Posted by harleyquinn12 (1741 posts) - - Show Bio

@GundamHeavyarms said:

Well, should there be more diversity in comics, absolutely, both on the creative end and in the actual books.  Some of us guys aren't all of the fanboyish boys club mentality.  I would like to see more black, asian, and hispanic heroes in the limelight as well as women and LGBT characters too.  However, there is a problem with it, when you have diversity for the sake of it, you delve into quotas and where you have quotas you have tokenism and tokenism is just as bad as no diversity at all.   In an ideal landscape there would be no quotas to fill, characters would be there because they fit the story, creators would be hired because of their record of work.  It would be organic and not political.  The woman in the batgirl costume should have asked those questions, I would have asked them myself.


This.

#19 Edited by cosmo111687 (1463 posts) - - Show Bio
@aztek the lost said:

people should be more thankful DC puts out titles featuring women then going the Marvel tactic and just putting out the most popular stuff over and over again, at least DC tries to mix it up

@B'Town said:

DC has a growing female readership, I think BECAUSE they have more books out that women want to read which include more heroines and villainess'. I use to read more Marvel books and have slowly over the past three years become a much bigger DC fan and that is because of Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, Secret Six, Zatanna, Birds of Prey not to mention Detective Comics having the kahunas to feature BATWOMAN for a long run with the Question as her second feature.

Marvel can't come close to a line up like this. Just think they gave us that piece of shat X-Women. (shakes head)

The industry has a growing number of girls/women picking up comics and what the Publishers need to know is, the more comics they offer us women and girls the larger this female fan base will grow. So, these books will not always appeal to the male reader. I say so effin what!

Market them and put faith in them by ensuring they get the best writers and artists and this fan base of girls reading comics will continue to grow. There really needs to be a continued push to find great women writers and artists, who is the new Gail Simone, DC? Find her and give her a chance.

Throughout San Diego Comic Con, I've heard from Jim Lee and Dan Didio that they have the more female characters than any of their competitors. Although I don't think that's true in a quantitative sense (though that may change this September as DC introduces new characters and tweaks old ones), I do think that it's true in a qualitative sense. Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, the women of Secret Six, Zatanna, Birds of Prey and even Power Girl (in a satirical sense) are really great female characters who far outshine most female Marvel characters in terms of time spent crafting and defining them as individuals. That's not to say that great female characters like Storm, Jean Grey, X-23, Emma Frost, Sue Storm, She-Hulk, the female members of The Runaways, and other great Marvel women don't have the same potential for depth or that they are somehow beneath DC's characters. It's just that Marvel doesn't invest as much time into them as DC does with their female characters. And if they want my attention again, then they really should (I almost came back because I love Marjorie Liu's writing on X-23 so much.)
 
@castleking
said:

yes, they are under represented as a whole but only b/c Women are just a small part of the demographic in comics although they are growing.
 I dont know how to view the link and the woman discussion over female heroes, i prefer to see it on a video since it is hard to tell the tone of the individual and who is being confrontational.
 
I think that women heroes should be in more comics some in their own books, i feel for the little girl who dressed up as Stephanie Brown Batgirl b/c she is one of the few characters that seems to have a good story that wont be seen again in the reboot anytime soon. 
 
I agree with more female heroes being on covers but i dont know what cover the woman was discussing and if there is a reason why female heroes should be on a specific cover. 
 
In the end i dont think female titles should equal their male counterpart put it sure as hell, shouldnt be at 1% now that i think about it 5 titles of 52 isnt really 1% but a lil closer almost  10%. 
There are plenty of female characters that could carry their own title or be a central character in a comic, aint no excuse for DC not to have at least 5 to 8 specific gender targeted  titles for the small female demographic.   

 http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/10/those-52-dc-comics-issue-ones-and-what-and-who-is-missing/
Catwoman Batgirl (would have been better if they kept Stephanie Brown) Supergirl  Birds of Prey Wonder Woman   O_o Teen Titan could easily give spot light time on the female characters there is a market for them especially if you look at comics like the Runaways as any indication.  Sadly we may not see many female heroes and titles and the excuse of not having enough women in the comic industry is kinda stale excuse. We dont have aliens and monsters writing for DC or Marvel and yet they are written in stories. I would like for more diversity for women and ethnic groups in comics and i dont believe you need a token woman/ethnic writer to do it, all you need is a good respectful writer with a competent knowledge of comics and understanding of the world around.   I would encourage women to take up what seemed like a mocking tone  challenge  from the panel to the women submitting their work b/c i find it hard to believe that there are no women writers in the past with superior stories, scripts then those of their male counterpart especially when dealing with the female gender. Either way if the females are displeased i suggest they start collecting back issues for stories, its what i do most often. Also there are other comic companies with female titles that can help fill the DC cap.


@GundamHeavyarms

said:

Well, should there be more diversity in comics, absolutely, both on the creative end and in the actual books.  Some of us guys aren't all of the fanboyish boys club mentality.  I would like to see more black, asian, and hispanic heroes in the limelight as well as women and LGBT characters too.  However, there is a problem with it, when you have diversity for the sake of it, you delve into quotas and where you have quotas you have tokenism and tokenism is just as bad as no diversity at all.   In an ideal landscape there would be no quotas to fill, characters would be there because they fit the story, creators would be hired because of their record of work.  It would be organic and not political.  The woman in the batgirl costume should have asked those questions, I would have asked them myself.  

 
It's hard to judge right now just who will and who won't be given their own books in the future, as well. I mean, we just heard a week or two ago that Huntress is returning in October. And it's possible that they're just being very hush-hush about Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. So, who knows? Maybe that little girl will come dressed as Spoiler, Black Bat, or even Babs as Batgirl next year. :)   
 
And I agree that tokenism is just as bad, if not worse, than having not having diversity at all. I think that Morrison was right in suggesting that, if there are any female writers and artists out there who want to work for DC, they should submit their work. I'm sure that DC is basing their employment upon who creates quality work (with the exception of Rob Liefield.... I kid, I kid) rather than what's between their legs. And that's how it should be. I mean, I think that the best writer of female characters DC ever had was Greg Rucka (who is sadly at Marvel now).
#20 Posted by B'Town (2336 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmo111687 said:

@aztek the lost said:

people should be more thankful DC puts out titles featuring women then going the Marvel tactic and just putting out the most popular stuff over and over again, at least DC tries to mix it up

@B'Town said:

DC has a growing female readership, I think BECAUSE they have more books out that women want to read which include more heroines and villainess'. I use to read more Marvel books and have slowly over the past three years become a much bigger DC fan and that is because of Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, Secret Six, Zatanna, Birds of Prey not to mention Detective Comics having the kahunas to feature BATWOMAN for a long run with the Question as her second feature.

Marvel can't come close to a line up like this. Just think they gave us that piece of shat X-Women. (shakes head)

The industry has a growing number of girls/women picking up comics and what the Publishers need to know is, the more comics they offer us women and girls the larger this female fan base will grow. So, these books will not always appeal to the male reader. I say so effin what!

Market them and put faith in them by ensuring they get the best writers and artists and this fan base of girls reading comics will continue to grow. There really needs to be a continued push to find great women writers and artists, who is the new Gail Simone, DC? Find her and give her a chance.

Throughout San Diego Comic Con, I've heard from Jim Lee and Dan Didio that they have the more female characters than any of their competitors. Although I don't think that's true in a quantitative sense (though that may change this September as DC introduces new characters and tweaks old ones), I do think that it's true in a qualitative sense. Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, the women of Secret Six, Zatanna, Birds of Prey and even Power Girl (in a satirical sense) are really great female characters who far outshine most female Marvel characters in terms of time spent crafting and defining them as individuals. That's not to say that great female characters like Storm, Jean Grey, X-23, Emma Frost, Sue Storm, She-Hulk, the female members of The Runaways, and other great Marvel women don't have the same potential for depth or that they are somehow beneath DC's characters. It's just that Marvel doesn't invest as much time into them as DC does with their female characters. And if they want my attention again, then they really should (I almost came back because I love Marjorie Liu's writing on X-23 so much.)

Agreed on the DC qualitative > than Marvels quantitative. These DC books with women as the central character really have been well crafted with characters that can stand on their own. Marvel has also had some great books and there is no doubt that they have a strong list of women characters, but where are they? I am an ongoing subscriber to Runaways, I love them and keep them on my Pull List, X-23 has been a book well worth reading in how Liu is showing Laura's personal journey of self discovery. There are a ton of X characters that could be given there own ongoing and succeed with a great writer and artist but Marvel does not put faith in it, at least not for very long. I have been really disappointed in Marvel and it is a shame that they do not see the potential in producing books for the practically untapped market of women/grrrl readers.

It appears to me, DC is making a move in the right direction and they have my complete support. I'll keep buying these books not just because they have female characters but because they are great books. These are the books that I will be handing down to my niece who will share them with her little friends and thus the fan base grows.

Maybe in another generation or two, we will no longer be asking why there are so few women books/characters/writers/artists... readers.

#21 Posted by Rudyftw (985 posts) - - Show Bio
@cosmo111687 said:
In lieu of this controversy, I wanted to compile some information in order to see just how women characters are represented on the covers of DC's September launch as compared to men. 
 
You can see my findings on Female Characters here and on Male Characters here.   What do you guys think? Are female characters under represented in the new DC Universe? Or do you think that the complaints are over-blown and DC Women have never been given a much fairer representation than ever before?
Really? lets look at how many Hispanics have covers in D.C and Marvel. How about blacks? Asians? There are waaaaaay more unfairer representations than gender when it comes to comics. 
#22 Posted by B'Town (2336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rudyftw:

I think it is fair to say people of all colors are underrepresented. Even more so than women. Still the article that is being referenced is about several instances at SDCC in which a woman and her daughter questioned DC several times about where the women characters and women creators are and that is what many of us our responding to.

I would love to see more diversity in comics, period.

Not everyone purchasing comics is a white male between the ages of 12 and 40. The publishers need to begin producing books that women and people of different ethnic backgrounds can relate to. They can't expect to attract diverse support if they aren't writing books these people can relate to. They want more readers... then they need to widen the horizon of their targeted audiences.

#23 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

DC has more monthly ongoings featuring female characters than any other company.  
 
Marvel only has X-23 and Ghost Rider. I think people are getting mad at the wrong company ;)

#24 Posted by CATPANEXE (9357 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, it seems like the girl characters are the ones bigger in the news and hype right now for the revamp, even when their on a team cover.
Some times it's quality over volume?

#25 Posted by cosmo111687 (1463 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATPANEXE said:
I dunno, it seems like the girl characters are the ones bigger in the news and hype right now for the revamp, even when their on a team cover. Some times it's quality over volume?
Yeah, I agree for the most part. :) 
 
Of course, I'm always pleased whenever there are good female characters, and I'll keep pushing for it. But I think that DC is doing the best out of all the companies in representing their female characters.
#26 Edited by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio
@aztek the lost said:

@turoksonofstone said:

Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.

umm, I just looked it up and the human ratio is 101 men to 100 women, so actually they don't unless by "us" you're referring to some other third gender you represent

What was your source? 
Pink=More Women ,Blue=More Men 
By "us" I was referring to males but clever attempt none the less.
#27 Posted by _Sojourn_ (19323 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as Vixen is back...  

#28 Edited by NightFang (10247 posts) - - Show Bio
@utotheg38 said:

@turoksonofstone said:

Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.
Eventually they will start killing men............
And that worked so well in Y:The Last Man.
#29 Posted by cosmo111687 (1463 posts) - - Show Bio
@turoksonofstone said:
@aztek the lost said:

@turoksonofstone said:

Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.

umm, I just looked it up and the human ratio is 101 men to 100 women, so actually they don't unless by "us" you're referring to some other third gender you represent

What was your source? 
Pink=More Women ,Blue=More Men 
By "us" I was referring to males but clever attempt none the less.
That map might be a little misleading. Much of the land-mass of Canada, Russia, Brazil, Argentina, and Australia is unpopulated (<1 million people) while India and China alone could very well make-up for the difference between Female and Male pouplations (which is likely only in the tens of millions) found in the rest of the world.
#30 Posted by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio
@cosmo111687
There would definitely be even more women but China is purposely aborting  Females like no ones business.
#31 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@cosmo111687
 
i used to think that image were the 1st to try and use more women in comics with witchblade, aspen, Aphrodite X, not sure what others titles they had but i recall i used to think top cow was being very progressive at that time.
#32 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmo111687 said:

@turoksonofstone said:
@aztek the lost said:

@turoksonofstone said:

Of course Women are underrepresented. period. they outnumber us worldwide.

umm, I just looked it up and the human ratio is 101 men to 100 women, so actually they don't unless by "us" you're referring to some other third gender you represent

What was your source?
Pink=More Women ,Blue=More Men
By "us" I was referring to males but clever attempt none the less.
That map might be a little misleading. Much of the land-mass of Canada, Russia, Brazil, Argentina, and Australia is unpopulated (<1 million people) while India and China alone could very well make-up for the difference between Female and Male pouplations (which is likely only in the tens of millions) found in the rest of the world.

exactly, I found the same map but China and India have a higher male-to-female ratio then almost any other country and they also happen to be a third of the world population all their own

of the ten largest countries in the world, only the US, Brazil, Russia and Japan have more women and if you took the top eight countries only the US and Brazil have more women (Indonesia is balanced)

Asia and Africa are the two most populated continents in the world and they are the blue ones...Australia and South America don't do anything to cancel that out and although the entirety of Europe and North America might be a little daunting...they have much more balanced individual ratios then the large countries marked in blue where there are significantly more males then females as compared to the rest of the world

Moderator
#33 Posted by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio
@aztek the lost
OMG, OMG, you are right my apologies. This is actually considered a problem in some parts of the world other than China...this data is very surprising and has changed since I last saw it. I am sad for us.
#34 Posted by azza04 (1492 posts) - - Show Bio

The women of DC kick the women of Marvels ass. Other than Ms. Marvel there isn't one other female character that holds much interest for me in Marvel, other than a few women from the X-Men. While in DC their is Wonder Woman, Black Canary, Huntress, Supergirl, Power Girl, Vixen, Catwoman, and Zatanna. All of which can hold a comic of their own.

#35 Posted by Rudyftw (985 posts) - - Show Bio
@B'Town said:

@Rudyftw:

I think it is fair to say people of all colors are underrepresented. Even more so than women. Still the article that is being referenced is about several instances at SDCC in which a woman and her daughter questioned DC several times about where the women characters and women creators are and that is what many of us our responding to.

I would love to see more diversity in comics, period.

Not everyone purchasing comics is a white male between the ages of 12 and 40. The publishers need to begin producing books that women and people of different ethnic backgrounds can relate to. They can't expect to attract diverse support if they aren't writing books these people can relate to. They want more readers... then they need to widen the horizon of their targeted audiences.

Well said.

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