Darth Vader (Powerful??)

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#101 Edited by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

He was duelling Vader evenly for some time

If he was able to duel evenly with Vader, how did Vader move faster than he could see? Was Ferus injured?

He had a Sith Holocron working on him then, he went into the core to destroy it when he broke free of its influence, then Vader came up from the side. He also cut Vader's cloak and grazed his arm, but that was because Vader was toying with him back then.

#102 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

He was duelling Vader evenly for some time

If he was able to duel evenly with Vader, how did Vader move faster than he could see? Was Ferus injured?

He had a Sith Holocron working on him then, he went into the core to destroy it when he broke free of its influence, then Vader came up from the side. He also cut Vader's cloak and grazed his arm, but that was because Vader was toying with him back then.

Did the holocron enhance his powers? 
 
Do you have quotes of this incident? I would like to read this so I can evaluate it better.
#103 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

#105 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

George Lucas himself stated that he became what his father could become. G-Canon beats all.

#106 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

He was duelling Vader evenly for some time

If he was able to duel evenly with Vader, how did Vader move faster than he could see? Was Ferus injured?

He had a Sith Holocron working on him then, he went into the core to destroy it when he broke free of its influence, then Vader came up from the side. He also cut Vader's cloak and grazed his arm, but that was because Vader was toying with him back then.

Did the holocron enhance his powers? Do you have quotes of this incident? I would like to read this so I can evaluate it better.

It told him to give into his rage, and that there was no limit as to what he could do.

"His first blow was easily parried. He came at Vader again. Again. Circling, jumping, vaulting past him, turning through walls of shattering debris. Each time his lightsaber came close to Vader, it was either deflected in a shock that ran up his arm... or Vader simply wasn't there." Page 109

"The anger inside Ferus was now like liquid fuel inside him. He was feeding off Vader's rage, he was pushing every molecule of his body and feeling every molecule of the room responding to him. Everything was clear, hard-edged. He had no doubt he could defeat Vader. No doubt. He charged at Vader and made contact. Vader waited a beat too long to deflect him. The blow shuddered off his body armor, and something inside fused and the plastoid melted. Ferus could smell burning circuits. At the same time, he detected a tremor in Vader's arm. Suddenly, he was picked up and slammed against the wall, fighting desperately to hold onto his consciousness. Vader roared. part of the ceiling gave way. Durasteel melted, and smoke rose from the flying debris that crashed off the walls and gave off a resounding echo Anything that could be torn off the floor or walls came at Ferus -conduits, debris, hunks of stone. He dodged and weaved, attacking and retreating as Vader hit him with everything he had." Page 112 and 113

"Then Ferus saw a vision. He remembered the day he fixed Tru Veld's lightsaber. The Jedi Masters standing beside him. Siri Tachi, Ry-Gaul, Soara Antana, Obi-Wan Kenobi. He felt the wisdom of the masters inside him, and the story of all the Jedi that had died here. He felt the light inside him rushing again, he felt himself breathe air again for the first time in many days. He had come so close to falling to the Dark Side. He walked out of the darkness and into the light. I am a Jedi." Page 114

"As the holocron was destroyed, Ferus felt himself again. But he felt more than that. He felt as though he was his friends and masters and well. He felt as though he was the Force. Vader came out of nowhere, his hand seemingly teleporting from his side to the air in less than a tenth of a second. Ferus felt the Force being kicked out of him... he felt himself being suffocated. Deprived of air has Vader's Force Choke grew tighter." Page 115

I see nothing here that says Ferus was enhanced beyond his normal state while harboring the holocron. Even if he was, the last paragraph seems to imply that he was more powerful than he was before once he returned to the light. So again, no disparity. 
 
If it's not too much trouble, do you have quotes of any of Ferus' speed feats? I need to know how this feat of Vader's weighs by knowing Ferus' feats first. You said he was as fast as Obi-Wan; do you have any proof of that? Because that sounds ridiculous. Vader is not capable of moving too fast for characters of Obi-Wan's speed class to see. That would make him as fast as Palpatine, and we know for a fact he was never that fast. For that matter, if Ferus is as fast as Obi-Wan, why was Obi-Wan himself capable of following Vader's movements in ANH? Why were Luke and a dozen other Jedi capable of the same? If Ferus is as fast as Obi-Wan, the showing is invalid because it contradicts numerous other showings. I could see Vader moving faster than weak/average Jedi could see. Faster than a Knight/Master of Obi-Wan's caliber? Nonsense.
#108 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said: 

I never said he was faster, I said he was almost as fast.

Eh, I know. That's what I said. 
 
Do you have any proof that Ferus is as fast as Obi-Wan?
#109 Posted by FMStyyx (738 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

He was duelling Vader evenly for some time

If he was able to duel evenly with Vader, how did Vader move faster than he could see? Was Ferus injured?

He had a Sith Holocron working on him then, he went into the core to destroy it when he broke free of its influence, then Vader came up from the side. He also cut Vader's cloak and grazed his arm, but that was because Vader was toying with him back then.

Did the holocron enhance his powers? Do you have quotes of this incident? I would like to read this so I can evaluate it better.

It told him to give into his rage, and that there was no limit as to what he could do.

"His first blow was easily parried. He came at Vader again. Again. Circling, jumping, vaulting past him, turning through walls of shattering debris. Each time his lightsaber came close to Vader, it was either deflected in a shock that ran up his arm... or Vader simply wasn't there." Page 109

"The anger inside Ferus was now like liquid fuel inside him. He was feeding off Vader's rage, he was pushing every molecule of his body and feeling every molecule of the room responding to him. Everything was clear, hard-edged. He had no doubt he could defeat Vader. No doubt. He charged at Vader and made contact. Vader waited a beat too long to deflect him. The blow shuddered off his body armor, and something inside fused and the plastoid melted. Ferus could smell burning circuits. At the same time, he detected a tremor in Vader's arm. Suddenly, he was picked up and slammed against the wall, fighting desperately to hold onto his consciousness. Vader roared. part of the ceiling gave way. Durasteel melted, and smoke rose from the flying debris that crashed off the walls and gave off a resounding echo Anything that could be torn off the floor or walls came at Ferus -conduits, debris, hunks of stone. He dodged and weaved, attacking and retreating as Vader hit him with everything he had." Page 112 and 113

"Then Ferus saw a vision. He remembered the day he fixed Tru Veld's lightsaber. The Jedi Masters standing beside him. Siri Tachi, Ry-Gaul, Soara Antana, Obi-Wan Kenobi. He felt the wisdom of the masters inside him, and the story of all the Jedi that had died here. He felt the light inside him rushing again, he felt himself breathe air again for the first time in many days. He had come so close to falling to the Dark Side. He walked out of the darkness and into the light. I am a Jedi." Page 114

"As the holocron was destroyed, Ferus felt himself again. But he felt more than that. He felt as though he was his friends and masters and well. He felt as though he was the Force. Vader came out of nowhere, his hand seemingly teleporting from his side to the air in less than a tenth of a second. Ferus felt the Force being kicked out of him... he felt himself being suffocated. Deprived of air has Vader's Force Choke grew tighter." Page 115

I see nothing here that says Ferus was enhanced beyond his normal state while harboring the holocron. Even if he was, the last paragraph seems to imply that he was more powerful than he was before once he returned to the light. So again, no disparity. If it's not too much trouble, do you have quotes of any of Ferus' speed feats? I need to know how this feat of Vader's weighs by knowing Ferus' feats first. You said he was as fast as Obi-Wan; do you have any proof of that? Because that sounds ridiculous. Vader is not capable of moving too fast for characters of Obi-Wan's speed class to see. That would make him as fast as Palpatine, and we know for a fact he was never that fast. For that matter, if Ferus is as fast as Obi-Wan, why was Obi-Wan himself capable of following Vader's movements in ANH? Why were Luke and a dozen other Jedi capable of the same? If Ferus is as fast as Obi-Wan, the showing is invalid because it contradicts numerous other showings. I could see Vader moving faster than weak/average Jedi could see. Faster than a Knight/Master of Obi-Wan's caliber? Nonsense.

I never said he was faster, I said he was almost as fast.

This is a trolling comment plz forgive me (was vader using the force to move fast??) bc the dude has to have trouble walking with those robot legs right??

#110 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@FMStyyx: There is no trolling in his post. Read EU works involving Vader. He has always been superhumanly fast via the Force. If he lacked such speed, he would never be able to contend with Jedi.
#111 Posted by FMStyyx (738 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@FMStyyx: There is no trolling in his post. Read EU works involving Vader. He has always been superhumanly fast via the Force. If he lacked such speed, he would never be able to contend with Jedi.

My post is wat i was referring to. i thought he was fast by the force.

#112 Edited by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

I never said he was faster, I said he was almost as fast.

Eh, I know. That's what I said. Do you have any proof that Ferus is as fast as Obi-Wan?

Again, ALMOST as fast.

"Boba and Dharhan fired. Obi-Wan leapt through the air, circled past a group of Jawas and vaulted through a narrow passagway, with Ferus on his heels" Pg11

"Obi-Wan leaped past the beams even as Dharhan shot the blast that would destroy the ship they were taking cover under. Ferus leaped almost simultaneously, and Obi-Wan silently acknowledged that Ferus indeed had potential" Pg13

"Ferus saw Dharhan coming. It was unexplainable, but Ferus was able to see and pinpoint exactly when and where Dharhan would fire. He saw Obi-Wan in the distance, dancing with his lightsaber in a desperate attempt to block Boba Fett from reaching him and Trever. He turned back. Only a fraction of a second had passed, but it was enough. Ferus somersaulted through the air, landed behind Dharhan and scissor-kicked the cyborg from underneath. He was up in less than a second." Pg15

"Despite his opponent's non-Force Sensitivity, Obi-Wan was still unable to force Fett back. He staggered under his opponent's barrage of fire, almost tripping himself. Fett fired his concussion missile, taking less than a second to aim. Obi-Wan was blasted through the air like a scrap of cloth, his lightsaber was knocked out of his hand, and as Fett activated his jetpack Obi-Wan realized the fight would not be as easy as he thought. Feeling Boba's blows shuddering through his bones repeatedly, Obi-Wan grabbed Fett, rather than try to break his grasp. The two plummeted down to the earth, where Obi-Wan was saved by a surge of energy. Knocking Fett away, Obi-Wan landed smoothly on the earth and recaptured his fallen lightsaber. Just then, Fett fired. Obi-Wan barely had enough time to raise his lightsaber, yet it was another lightsaber, flying through the air, that saved him. Ferus leaped down from the shattered rock above, landing next to Obi-Wan. Fett was not discouraged. Firing his flamethrower he burned the metal and rock surrounding the two Jedi, trapping them. Obi-Wan leaped, and was greatly astonished at Ferus, who had leapt almost simultaneously again. But now his lack of combat and battle for weeks began to take its toll; Obi-Wan realized that he could not outmaneuver Fett." Pg17

I practically recited a whole page for you, Silver.

#113 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said: 

Again, ALMOST as fast.

Correction noted. 
 
I see nothing in those quotes that says Ferus is nearly as fast as Obi-Wan. All he did was leap in simultaneity to him. So? Several characters can manage that. That does render Ferus' speed equal to him. And, although you never implied it, it especially does not render Ferus' reaction speed, perception speed, or combat speed the equivalent or near equivalent of Obi-Wan's. 
 
More than that, that writing is nonsense. Obi-Wan can barely deflect fire from Fett? What kind of idiocy is that? Obi-Wan repeatedly ran through armies shooting at him without taking a hit. Boba posing more of a challenge is just silly. 
 

I practically recited a whole page for you, Silver.

And I appreciate it. However, there is nothing here that expressly concludes Ferus to be anything more than an average Force sensitive.
#114 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

George Lucas himself stated that he became what his father could become. G-Canon beats all.

The most powerful Force Sensitive in Jedi/Sith history?

#115 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17123 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

George Lucas himself stated that he became what his father could become. G-Canon beats all.

The most powerful Force Sensitive in Jedi/Sith history?

Vader is still the most badass character in Star Wars. I know that's subjective, but I just don't care.

#116 Posted by FMStyyx (738 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

George Lucas himself stated that he became what his father could become. G-Canon beats all.

The most powerful Force Sensitive in Jedi/Sith history?

Vader is still the most badass character in Star Wars. I know that's subjective, but I just don't care.

Like Mace better. Still looking 4 a sith i lik

#117 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17123 posts) - - Show Bio

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

George Lucas himself stated that he became what his father could become. G-Canon beats all.

The most powerful Force Sensitive in Jedi/Sith history?

Vader is still the most badass character in Star Wars. I know that's subjective, but I just don't care.

Like Mace better. Still looking 4 a sith i lik

I always liked the purple light saber story

#118 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

Again, ALMOST as fast.

Correction noted.

I see nothing in those quotes that says Ferus is nearly as fast as Obi-Wan. All he did was leap in simultaneity to him. So? Several characters can manage that. That does render Ferus' speed equal to him. And, although you never implied it, it especially does not render Ferus' reaction speed, perception speed, or combat speed the equivalent or near equivalent of Obi-Wan's.

More than that, that writing is nonsense. Obi-Wan can barely deflect fire from Fett? What kind of idiocy is that? Obi-Wan repeatedly ran through armies shooting at him without taking a hit. Boba posing more of a challenge is just silly.

I practically recited a whole page for you, Silver.

And I appreciate it. However, there is nothing here that expressly concludes Ferus to be anything more than an average Force sensitive.

It's not nonsense when you realize Obi-Wan hasn't been fighting for some time and he had just been caught in the arm by Dharhan's shot.

#119 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said: 

It's not nonsense when you realize Obi-Wan hasn't been fighting for some time and he had just been caught in the arm by Dharhan's shot.

Okay.... 
 
Regardless, the feat from Vader, when taken in the context of Ferus not being too overly fast like other higher tier Jedi, is decent. Still, moving too fast for an average Jedi to see is not something Anakin couldn't do, and Anakin's speed feats are still slightly more impressive than Vader's, in my opinion.
#120 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

It's not nonsense when you realize Obi-Wan hasn't been fighting for some time and he had just been caught in the arm by Dharhan's shot.

Okay.... Regardless, the feat from Vader, when taken in the context of Ferus not being too overly fast like other higher tier Jedi, is decent. Still, moving too fast for an average Jedi to see is not something Anakin couldn't do, and Anakin's speed feats are still slightly more impressive than Vader's, in my opinion.

Not an average Jedi, they said he was the most gifted Jedi apprentice, second only to Anakin.

#121 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShootingNova said:

@Silver2467 said:

@ShootingNova said:

It's not nonsense when you realize Obi-Wan hasn't been fighting for some time and he had just been caught in the arm by Dharhan's shot.

Okay.... Regardless, the feat from Vader, when taken in the context of Ferus not being too overly fast like other higher tier Jedi, is decent. Still, moving too fast for an average Jedi to see is not something Anakin couldn't do, and Anakin's speed feats are still slightly more impressive than Vader's, in my opinion.

Not an average Jedi, they said he was the most gifted Jedi apprentice, second only to Anakin.

That doesn't make him fast. Lorian Nod was a gifted apprentice as well; it never yielded much skill on his part. 
 
In any case, if Ferus is that impressive in speed, the showing is invalid. As I said, Vader is not fast enough to move invisibly fast to characters of upper tier Jedi's speed class. He would have to be only passable or standard in speed for that to be legitimate, especially since Vader was not moving too fast for him to follow during their actual duel.
#122 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FMStyyx said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

Are you out of your mind? Luke is the only one in the universe other than The Emperor that could have even stood toe to toe with Vader.

aside from being the only other force user y was luke able to do this?? he had no REAL training, or experience so why? did obi say vader was more machine than man and that most of his force powers were lose do to the loss of most of his midi-chlorians??

Trust me, Luke has had a lot of training and experience, read the EU. And Vader's PRIME was in his suit.

Luke is one of the GOAT in the EU

And it's true, Vader was really just a machine, he did lose most of his force powers. If he didn't get burned by the Lava, he would've not only reached his full potential, but Sidious would've taught him a hell load of things that took him to another level.

We're talking by EP6, not post when he became the most powerful Jedi.

Ah, Though his Force Potential in the EU is said to surpass that of Palpatine & a Chosen One Anakin. Surpassed Yoda also.

Ep6 like someone said before was roughly equal to a prime Obi-Wan

Nope, "he became what his father could become", he did not surpass Chosen One. He did become the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

It was said his force potential surpassed it.

George Lucas himself stated that he became what his father could become. G-Canon beats all.

The most powerful Force Sensitive in Jedi/Sith history?

Vader is still the most badass character in Star Wars. I know that's subjective, but I just don't care.

Still is that what Luke is?

#123 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil: Of course not. Luke is the most powerful Jedi/Sith.

#124 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Of History (the force potential of the Chosen One)

#125 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova: Of History (the force potential of the Chosen One)

I know he has the potential. But he can't draw upon the power of Mortis.

#126 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova: Of History (the force potential of the Chosen One)

I know he has the potential. But he can't draw upon the power of Mortis.

The power of Mortis?

#127 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@ShootingNova: Of History (the force potential of the Chosen One)

I know he has the potential. But he can't draw upon the power of Mortis.

The power of Mortis?

The power of a planet called Mortis, which is a planet so powerful in the Force it is the conduit which the Force in channeled through to the entire universe. Only the Ones and the Chosen One can draw upon its power.

#128 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: So The Ones are the most powerful force sensitives?

#129 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jnr6Lil: Some say they are.

#130 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7622 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Maybe

#131 Edited by Kingshark (172 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the main reasons people would underestimate Vader is because they have only seen the original trilogy, and nothing more. Obviously, Vader was shown as being slow and unagile in those movies because of the lack of technology 35 years ago. On the other hand, the main reasons people would overrestimate Vader is because he is by far the most popular SW character worldwide, he's an icon. The truth is, Darth Vader was one of the stronger Sith lords, but the title of strongest Sith of them all would have to go to Sidious.

I have a few questions to my own mind:

1.) How exactly did Vader become weaker after the mustafer incident, when telekinesis is a complete mind/mental thing?

2.) Other than Sidious, are there any other Sith lords that you can confidently say are clearly stronger than Vader is?

3.) Which character, outside the Star Wars universe, would be a good match for EU Vader in his prime?

I have read comics and watched animaled movies, and from what I've seen Vader actually has tremendous durability thanks to his armour. In EU he shows no signs of weakness to electricity, which was greately over exaggerated in the movies. He took an unbelievable beating from Starkiller in Force Unleashed - The Movie, where his suit was destroyed and his mask was ripped off; yet he was walking a few minutes later.

I also believe that the main reason he died from Palpatines lightning in episode 6, was because he had his arm choped off before that, thus he had no armour to protect his life support system from the voltage.

#132 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingshark: Of course it goes to Sidious. Its been stated.

1.) How exactly did Vader become weaker after the mustafer incident, when telekinesis is a complete mind/mental thing?

What are you specifically referring to here? "Weaker" in what category?

2.) Other than Sidious, are there any other Sith lords that you can confidently say are clearly stronger than Vader is?

Perhaps Caedus and Plagueis.

3.) Which character, outside the Star Wars universe, would be a good match for EU Vader in his prime?

Quite a few beings. I can't list them all.

#133 Posted by Kingshark (172 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean weaker with the force. I've heard many people claim that because of the mustafar incident during his battle with Obi-Wan, Anakin was never able to reach his true potential because of his mechanical limbs. However, how exactly are mechanical limbs suppose to prevent him from becoming as powerful as he is capable of, when the force is a mind/concentration thing rather than physical?

The only possible disadvantage I see in not having limbs is that he can't use force lightning, but it's not like his mechanical limbs have any effect on his ability to use telekinesis, do they?

#134 Posted by JediXMan (27938 posts) - - Show Bio

He's okay.

#135 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (21278 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course he is.

#136 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16870 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

He's okay.

In terms of power?

#137 Posted by BatWatch (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

He proved his strength in the comics and somewhat in the prequels, but yeah, his original series feats are not that great. I rack that up as bad special effects.

#138 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingshark said:

I mean weaker with the force. I've heard many people claim that because of the mustafar incident during his battle with Obi-Wan, Anakin was never able to reach his true potential because of his mechanical limbs. However, how exactly are mechanical limbs suppose to prevent him from becoming as powerful as he is capable of, when the force is a mind/concentration thing rather than physical?

The only possible disadvantage I see in not having limbs is that he can't use force lightning, but it's not like his mechanical limbs have any effect on his ability to use telekinesis, do they?

Not being able to use Lightning is a disadvantage, but Vader can still use Kinetite.

Yes, he was not as powerful as he could have been.

#139 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

He's okay.

#140 Posted by NatX (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I would think Darth Bane would woop up on some Vader, especially if he had the obelisks still Implanted on him.

#141 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@NatX: Why did you revive this?

Let's take a look at the scenarios, because Darth Bane is simply not as powerful as people make him out to be:

1. Normal Darth Bane vs Darth Vader, peak for both. Vader wins. Superiority in literally every physical category and similar levels of telekinetics. Bane can't use Force Drain without aid, his Force Lightning can be deflected or avoided, and Vader knows Kinetite. Bane could probably deflect it, but the fact still remains that they are fairly near each other in Force Powers. Vader has superior Force Choke/Lift/Throw etc., and superior saber combat skills. He is also stronger physically and has far superior durability.

2. Orbalisk Bane vs Darth Vader, peak. Bane will now become invulnerable to saber strikes, save for small portions (but it remains irrelevant due to the fact he would simply regenerate from wounds inflicted there) but Vader's Kinetite may potentially have superior effect here. All he has to do is deflect lightning back at Bane, but that's going to be less likely. This is the only scenario where Bane really beats Vader majority.

#142 Posted by Kingshark (172 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Kingshark said:

I mean weaker with the force. I've heard many people claim that because of the mustafar incident during his battle with Obi-Wan, Anakin was never able to reach his true potential because of his mechanical limbs. However, how exactly are mechanical limbs suppose to prevent him from becoming as powerful as he is capable of, when the force is a mind/concentration thing rather than physical?

The only possible disadvantage I see in not having limbs is that he can't use force lightning, but it's not like his mechanical limbs have any effect on his ability to use telekinesis, do they?

Not being able to use Lightning is a disadvantage, but Vader can still use Kinetite.

Yes, he was not as powerful as he could have been.

I can see to why having mechanical arms would not allow Vader to use lighting; but I don't understand how that prevented him from reaching his true potential. As I said before, telekinesis is a mind/concentration thing. Yoda is smaller than Vader even without his arms, yet it didn't stop him from being powerful.

#143 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingshark: Force sensitives are are linked to the force through life (basically). People like Vader and Lumiya could never reach their full potential because they were more machine than human. Lumiya explains it pretty well in Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Betrayal.

#144 Edited by kasino (470 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader had the most potential of any sith or jedi

while I would say for the most part it wasn't fulfilled he did however defeat the sith I consider the 2nd most powerful in Palpatine not to mention most of the Jedi order

at his best better then anyone

#145 Posted by ShootingNova (13065 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingshark: Because he lost majority of his Midi-Chlorians (I hate that concept).

@kasino said:

Vader had the most potential of any sith or jedi

while I would say for the most part it wasn't fulfilled he did however defeat the sith I consider the 2nd most powerful in Palpatine not to mention most of the Jedi order

at his best better then anyone

And why you think Vader is even remotely a threat to Palpatine is beyond me. Perhaps if you were speaking in regards to the movie only, then that would be less horrendously incorrect. But considering the EU, by no means is that even remotely true.

#146 Posted by kasino (470 posts) - - Show Bio

he did kill him and I only know a little of the EU, reason why he couldn't?

#147 Edited by Kingshark (172 posts) - - Show Bio

In that respect, I think Palpatine was trying to keep Anakin weak. Think about it, he easily could have cloned a new pair of legs and another arm, Star Wars characters loose limbs all the time.

According to Wookiepedia;

"As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly eight-tenths of the strength of the Emperor. But even still, Vader wielded tremendous power and skill - more than even the venerable Master Yoda. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar, he would have been even more powerful than the Emperor."

80% the strength of Darth Sidious, the greatest Sith Lord of all time. I think that certainly counts for something.

#148 Edited by Kingshark (172 posts) - - Show Bio

OK., so based of this thread I can safely come to a conclusion that discluding Plagueis or Sidious there isn't a Sith lord who was ever really stronger than Vader, thus we can call him #3 in the pecking order. However, in terms of popularity he owns all Sith lords and other Star Wars characters hands down.

That being said, I want to create a battle between EU Darth Vader vs War Hulk, but I'm afraid it'll turn into a mismatch. Any suggestions/advice on whether I should go through with it?

#149 Posted by Assumenothing80 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader became a cripple after fighting Kenobi. He may have had limitless potential before he had his limbs, lungs, so forth burnt/chopped, but now his abilities are far weaker. Fast forward to now and he is a Sith god. Why? I mean if Vader in suit was up against Tulok Hord, Marko Ragnos, Mace Windu, Yoda. Wouldn't he be in serious trouble.

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