Darth Vader: Greatest Henchmen or Main Villian

#1 Posted by Mr. Smiths (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

Reason I ask this because Darth Vader was a villian but also henchmen. Darth Sidious was the actual main villian of the Sith. But in most ways Darth Vader acted like a main villian. So what choice is it?
#2 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio

Both. Vader is (or was) the greatest villain, AND, the greatest henchmen. Thats how badass the dude was. One category couldn't contain him. (he was also a great hero in his time).

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#3 Posted by Demonturtle (455 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
"Both. Vader is (or was) the greatest villain, AND, the greatest henchmen. Thats how badass the dude was. One category couldn't contain him. (he was also a great hero in his time). "

Very true, very true!!
#4 Edited by War Killer (19937 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:

" Both. Vader is (or was) the greatest villain, AND, the greatest henchmen. Thats how badass the dude was. One category couldn't contain him. (he was also a great hero in his time). "

Well he did die a hero, saving the galaxy, so he's all three ^__^

Vader - Purge - The Hidden Blade #1
#5 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer:  I'm conflicted about that. I mean, yes, he did safe the galaxy at the end, but for years and years and years before that he helped turn it into something that needed saving...I'm not sure you can kill kids and pretty much everything else in between for over 20 years and then turn around and be called a hero because of one redeeming act. Its a tough call.
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#6 Edited by War Killer (19937 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:

" @War Killer:  I'm conflicted about that. I mean, yes, he did safe the galaxy at the end, but for years and years and years before that he helped turn it into something that needed saving...I'm not sure you can kill kids and pretty much everything else in between for over 20 years and then turn around and be called a hero because of one redeeming act. Its a tough call. "

True, I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't forgive him for the things he did, but from what I got through the movies, he had to do all of those things he did to get to where he was in the VI movie, but there could be many reasons and ways people see his "redemption."
#7 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
" @Gambler said:

" @War Killer:  I'm conflicted about that. I mean, yes, he did safe the galaxy at the end, but for years and years and years before that he helped turn it into something that needed saving...I'm not sure you can kill kids and pretty much everything else in between for over 20 years and then turn around and be called a hero because of one redeeming act. Its a tough call. "

True, I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't forgive him for the things he did, but from what I got through the movies, he had to do all of those things he did to get to where he was in the VI movie, but there could be many reasons and ways people see his "redemption." "
Agreed. I think he was a victim of circumstance and because of tragic events in his life he was easily manipulated. Thus becoming a villain. And although he sacrificed himself at the end, I just dont know if it was enough to consider him a hero. He could have lived another 100 years and never redeemed himself. Some things you just cant make up for (slaughtering a temple full of kids being one).
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#8 Edited by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader is the great hero and savior of the Star Wars series. Luke Skywalker was fairly useless in the end. Vader is the one who brought balance to the force, and saved the galaxy from the threat of the Sith. Luke helped him get there, but really, he was just the lesser son of a greater man. The Jedi Council are the real villains of the prequels, IMO. They screw the pooch at every possible turn. They alienate their savior, pushing him directly into the arms of an incredibly powerful Sith Lord, who they completely failed to identify over the course of years of close contact. Mace Windu is a particularly terrible offender, putting Anakin down at every turn, denying him the rank of Master, etc. I was actually glad that the Jedi got killed off in the prequels. They were a bunch of self-righteous idiots who couldn't foresee their own downfall, despite all their vaunted power. Yoda was also a terrible Jedi, who had all that power, and let it lapse over the years until he was no longer any kind of threat. He then sends Vader's son after him, to finish a job that the entire Jedi order failed to accomplish. The Jedi were fools and cowards, and Vader ended up being a greater force for good than any of them were.

#9 Posted by Edamame (27935 posts) - - Show Bio

They were suspicious of Anakin because he harbored the emotions of fear. 

#10 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg said:
" Vader is the great hero and savior of the Star Wars series. Luke Skywalker was fairly useless in the end. Vader is the one who brought balance to the force, and saved the galaxy from the threat of the Sith. Luke helped him get there, but really, he was just the lesser son of a greater man. The Jedi Council are the real villains of the prequels, IMO. They screw the pooch at every possible turn. They alienate their savior, pushing him directly into the arms of an incredibly powerful Sith Lord, who they completely failed to identify over the course of years of close contact. Mace Windu is a particularly terrible offender, putting Anakin down at every turn, denying him the rank of Master, etc. I was actually glad that the Jedi got killed off in the prequels. They were a bunch of self-righteous idiots who couldn't foresee their own downfall, despite all their vaunted power. Yoda was also a terrible Jedi, who had all that power, and let it lapse over the years until he was no longer any kind of threat. He then sends Vader's son after him, to finish a job that the entire Jedi order failed to accomplish. The Jedi were fools and cowards, and Vader ended up being a greater force for good than any of them were. "
I cant tell if you're being serious or not...Vader restored balance to the Force? Isn't he the one who unbalanced it in the first place? He only saved the galaxy that he himself f'd up in the name of the Sith. Thats like purposely starting a fire in your house and then being called a hero for putting it out lol. Vader was a selfish brat who broke every rule the Jedi had in order to satisfy his own agenda (primarily being with his girl, which turns out he was his own worst enemy in that regard). Mace put down Anakin cause he knew he was a b!tch from the word go. I can agree that the Jedi made several mistakes, the biggest one however was Anakin himself. The second one was talking Anakin up as the chosen one. It went straight to his head like a star athlete thinking he's better then the rest of the team, he went out and did whatever he felt like cause he was "special." 
 
Also lets not act as if Yoda "used" Luke for his own selfish scheme. He didnt even want to train him, he didnt want anything to do with the kid at first. Luke begged and Obi Wan wined until they broke the old dude down. If the Jedi were fools and cowards then how is Vader any better? Were his mistakes any less foolish? Was he any less of a coward? Striking down Mace when he's whoopin some ass was a cowardly move, slaughtering a group of kids was a cowardly move, letting the Emperor (who he knew was a Sith/badguy) manipulate him was a weak and cowardly move, choking his pregnant wife until she passes out cause he's jealous of Obi Wan was a cowardly move, I mean the list goes on and on. I'm sorry but I dont see how one final act of good washes away a lifetime of villainous acts. Vader wouldnt have needed to safe the galaxy if he hadn't helped put it in peril to begin with.
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#11 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
" I cant tell if you're being serious or not..."
No one ever can.
#12 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg said:
" @Gambler said:
" I cant tell if you're being serious or not..."
No one ever can. "
QFT..seriously I can never tell.
#13 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg said:
" @Gambler said:
" I cant tell if you're being serious or not..."
No one ever can. "
Its cause you sounds so convincing and make valid points regardless. Tricky bastard ;p
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#14 Posted by Edamame (27935 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler: Anakin brought balance to the force by bringing it down to just two Sith and two Jedi.
#15 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @Gambler: Anakin brought balance to the force by bringing it down to just two Sith and two Jedi. "
Balance of the Force wasn't/isnt determined by how many Sith and how many Jedi there were/are.
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#16 Posted by Edamame (27935 posts) - - Show Bio
Subjective.
#17 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
Fact lol
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#18 Posted by Edamame (27935 posts) - - Show Bio
Not an objective truth. Rather a subjective truth. LOL. 
 
Define what bringing balance to the force means. 
#19 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19714 posts) - - Show Bio

World's most capable hench

#20 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Emperor Gonzo Noir said:
" World's most capable hench "
I dunno. I think if one of my henchmen killed me, I'd seriously consider firing him.
#21 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84451 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" Not an objective truth. Rather a subjective truth. LOL.   Define what bringing balance to the force means.  "
No Sith. The Jedi represent harmony/good health sort of thing. And the Sith are like Cancer. When you have Cancer you're unbalanced, sick, no harmony. Get rid of the Cancer (kill off the Sith) you're healthy again :)
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#22 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11264 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm more of a fan of

 Villain wise.
My favourite character is Mace Windu. In the comics as well as in the films. Then Kit Fisto.
#23 Posted by Girth (1041 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader to me is a main villain. He wanted to kill the emperor, but he had to do it carefully. It was a matter of timing.

#24 Edited by Yumulu (762 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg said:

" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:

" World's most capable hench "
I dunno. I think if one of my henchmen killed me, I'd seriously consider firing him. "
This, I am pretty sure that killing your boss kind of disqualify you from being the best henchman.
#25 Edited by EdwardWindsor (14400 posts) - - Show Bio

Henchman for me since Anakin as a jedi he was never a master technically so was a underling jedi. When he switched he became greatly feared and did many evil things but never pushed to take control for himself, when he would of definetly pushed and possably beaten Palpatine. Granted post suit grafting Anakin was weaker than when he had his own limbs , but luke lost and arm and he went on to be hugely powerful after. I think Vader never had the will to be the main villian  he just spent his life  disillusioned  with the prophecy  and of his lost wife and children ths become a broken man and had no over real options other than to serve.

#26 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19714 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg said:
" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:
" World's most capable hench "
I dunno. I think if one of my henchmen killed me, I'd seriously consider firing him. "
didn't say he was the best, just the most capable
#27 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Emperor Gonzo Noir said:
" didn't say he was the best, just the most capable "
I disagree. A henchman who kills his boss is incredibly incapable. He's actually incapable of even being a henchman at that point. Also, that was a joke. Not sure how you failed to pick up on that.
#28 Posted by Edamame (27935 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler: But there is an elemental balance between good and evil than can never dissipate.  
 
Also, I see the Sith as the Jedi who can't control their emotions.  The Sith all function on emotions.  The Jedi can use something called the Vaapad or something like that, correct me please, to use emotions, but not be consumed by them. 
#29 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19714 posts) - - Show Bio
@Korg: you just got one of them faces man

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