Why Hasn't Daredevil Ever Had A Sidekick?

#1 Posted by constocorp (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Now i know that Daredevil is a darker character know and that everybody loves Frank Millers and Mark Waids work but why when the comics code was in play why didn't Marvel utilise this they could have had like a guide dog or something like that or a kid sidekick?

Please share your thoughts with me below

Thanks~Constocorp

#2 Posted by MatKrenz (1233 posts) - - Show Bio

Because when Stan Lee created all the Marvel heroes he didn't want them to be as stereotypical as the DC ones.

I mean does Spider-Man have one (Alpha doesn't count he was introduced 2 months ago for like 3 issues), or Black Panther or anybody else ?

#3 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidekicks is more of a DC concept. DC has a generation of multi-generational character (something Marvel is moving towards more recently). Marvel tends to have groups or partnerships, but they're rarely of a mentoring capacity.

Marvel seems to be opting for training camps (Avengers Academy) and schools (X-Men, Wolverine and the X-Men) for the heroic education of their younger characters.

#4 Posted by cattlebattle (12585 posts) - - Show Bio
@constocorp: Funny you would mention that , he was to have a cartoon where he did have a seeing eye dog that helped him fight crime named lightning..... 
 
Dog suicide
#5 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

He dosen'tt need one

#6 Posted by constocorp (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: Seriously he was gonna have a cartoon that would have been awesome

#7 Posted by ruler (296 posts) - - Show Bio

what about black widow she was partner to daredevil

#8 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12570 posts) - - Show Bio

Stan Lee hates kid/teen sidekicks.

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#9 Posted by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruler said:

what about black widow she was partner to daredevil

This.

#10 Posted by Cap10nate (2160 posts) - - Show Bio

Have there been any Marvel sidekicks since the golden age. The first thing they did when they decided to bring back Cap was to kill off Bucky retroactively.

#11 Posted by BlueArrow (256 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crash_Recovery said:

Sidekicks is more of a DC concept. DC has a generation of multi-generational character (something Marvel is moving towards more recently). Marvel tends to have groups or partnerships, but they're rarely of a mentoring capacity.

Marvel seems to be opting for training camps (Avengers Academy) and schools (X-Men, Wolverine and the X-Men) for the heroic education of their younger characters.

One word...Bucky...

#12 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

The operative word being "one"

#13 Posted by sunhawk (550 posts) - - Show Bio

introducing daredevil's sides kick Wheels the handicap able wheel chair bound crime fighting cyborg.

#14 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

A sidekick...No way in hell. Though I do think it would be cool if he had some sort of employer. Like somebody who tells him about big crimes all around the world he has to stop or new criminals. Sort of like his own personal Agent Fury

#15 Posted by The Stegman (23158 posts) - - Show Bio

He never saw one that he liked.

#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap is the one of the only premier heroes that have had a sidekick and that's only because he was created in an era where EVERY superhero had a sidekick.

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#17 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

Because honestly sidekicks aren't really much of a thing anymore. Batman is really the only character who consistently has one and that's only when writers really feel like it.

#18 Edited by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil's girlfriends, all the important ones, have either died or went crazy because of their affiliation with him.

Do you really think that giving him a sidekick would be ok?

Over Matt's dead body, lol.

#19 Posted by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

Daredevil's girlfriends, all the important ones, have either died or went crazy because of their affiliation with him.

Do you really think that giving him a sidekick would be ok?

Over Matt's dead body, lol.

Black widow is still alive and have been his sidekick.

Typhoid Mary and Elektra was insane before they meet Matt. Or at least Elektra got insane because of the death of her father not Matt. Milla is the only person that got insane because of Matt. You could also say that it was more Foggy and BW's fault that Heather Gleen killed her self and not Matt.

#20 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

DD dosen't roll like that

#21 Posted by DFChewie (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@Gambit1024 said:

You could also say that it was more Foggy and BW's fault that Heather Gleen killed her self and not Matt.

You sure could say that...

But Daredevil wouldn't. Daredevil's entire character is based on guilt, whether it is justified or not. He takes the world on his shoulders and he broods and mopes when that doesn't work out for him. Which is all the time, because taking the entire world on your shoulders never works for anybody anywhere. (Except maybe Captain America or, in the DC Universe, Superman.)

#22 Posted by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@DFChewie: Agree on your post. My point was more that it hasn't been Matt/Daredevil's fault that a lot in his life has gone wrong/bad. My point was more that there was nothing wrong per se to give Matt a sidekick (lick he would bring harm). If it would work and if Daredevil isn't more of a lone wolf/knight is another reason why he maybe shouldn't have one. However the argument that he will just bring harm into the side kicks life is not a standpoint I agree on. Also the guilt of the entire world has in someway been tone downed and less of his character with Mark Waid writing him Guess that is why some don't like him as a DD writer.

#23 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@DFChewie: Agree on your post. My point was more that it hasn't been Matt/Daredevil's fault that a lot in his life has gone wrong/bad. My point was more that there was nothing wrong per se to give Matt a sidekick (lick he would bring harm). If it would work and if Daredevil isn't more of a lone wolf/knight is another reason why he maybe shouldn't have one. However the argument that he will just bring harm into the side kicks life is not a standpoint I agree on. Also the guilt of the entire world has in someway been tone downed and less of his character with Mark Waid writing him Guess that is why some don't like him as a DD writer.

I Personally don't like Mark Waid because I find his stories lame.I don't mind that they toned down DD's depression.

#24 Posted by G_Money_Christmas (881 posts) - - Show Bio

It would be difficult because Daredevil's main attributes stem from his accident and I don't think it would work having someone who doesn't have the same abilities. Check our DD End of Days though

#25 Posted by JohnnyGat (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

Because he cannot see what the fuss of having a sidekick is?

#26 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

#27 Posted by Shark_Repellent_Bat_Spray (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueArrow said:

@Crash_Recovery said:

Sidekicks is more of a DC concept. DC has a generation of multi-generational character (something Marvel is moving towards more recently). Marvel tends to have groups or partnerships, but they're rarely of a mentoring capacity.

Marvel seems to be opting for training camps (Avengers Academy) and schools (X-Men, Wolverine and the X-Men) for the heroic education of their younger characters.

One word...Bucky...

I think it was more because Stan Lee disliked sidekicks... Thankfully Stan had nothing to do with the creation of Captain America because I quite like Bucky.

#28 Posted by RawrImADragon (206 posts) - - Show Bio

Because no one can keep up.

But I would've liked it if they kept Echo around longer as somewhat of a pseudo-sidekick or more like a partner. I think they would've made a great duo.

#29 Posted by Night Thrasher (3605 posts) - - Show Bio

1. He can't even keep his own secret identity secret for more than 50 issues.

2. His girlfriends keep dying, so imagine this man in charge of a prepubescent with a secret.

3. His villains are't really the batman type that want domination. Most of them just want more money. He can handle them solo.

#30 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

The world can't handle two horn headed heroes with sidekicks..

#31 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

He dosen't need one and he knows no teenage kid should fight a man's battle.Its too dangerous

#32 Posted by SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26 (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

The world can't handle two horn headed heroes with sidekicks..

Isn't it bad enough when we have one insanley dark franchise where a teenager called dresses in bright colored tights?

#33 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpideyIvyDaredevilFan26: I can't answer that because I just read Batman & Robin #18 and I feel horrible.

#34 Posted by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

@JohnnyGat said:

Because he cannot see what the fuss of having a sidekick is?

LOL

#35 Posted by Bogey (934 posts) - - Show Bio

A sidekick, why? Cause he's blind? He can do it himself.

#36 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

"Oblivious"?

And no, I think Foggy has been a supporting character long enough for Daredevil to be considered a sidekick. You don't have to wear a costume to be a sidekick (e.g., Jimmy Olsen).

#37 Edited by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

"Oblivious"?

And no, I think Foggy has been a supporting character long enough for Daredevil to be considered a sidekick. You don't have to wear a costume to be a sidekick (e.g., Jimmy Olsen).

He has been Matt's sidekick for many many years. But Foggy didn't know Matt was DD to around the late to mid 90's. So no, Foggy isn't Daredevil's sidekick and never has been. Foggy never helps Daredevil with his battles neither as a hero nor in a Oracle kind of role. Hell Maggie have help DD more (with injuries and such) than Foggy has. BW is without a doubt the closes DD had as sidekick. Partner would be a better term. Since a side kid is often a master/apprentice relationship rather than one there is equal. There is a clear difference between being a superheroes sidekick and the superheroes alter ego's side kick.

#38 Posted by daredevil21134 (10926 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

"Oblivious"?

And no, I think Foggy has been a supporting character long enough for Daredevil to be considered a sidekick. You don't have to wear a costume to be a sidekick (e.g., Jimmy Olsen).

He has been Matt's sidekick for many many years. But Foggy didn't know Matt was DD to around the late to mid 90's. So no, Foggy isn't Daredevil's sidekick and never has been. Foggy never helps Daredevil with his battles neither as a hero nor in a Oracle kind of role. Hell Maggie have help DD more (with injuries and such) than Foggy has. BW is without a doubt the

There is a clear difference between being a superheroes sidekick and the superheroes alter ego's side kick.

agreed

#39 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

He's blind he couldn't watch them

#40 Posted by TimeLordScience (769 posts) - - Show Bio

In Waid's run, Foggy is his sidekick.

#41 Edited by Teerack (5399 posts) - - Show Bio

Because DD is blind witch means his side kick would be deaf so their witty banter would go like this...

DD "I hate Mondays"

Sidekick "...."

DD "I hate fire alarms"

Sidekick "...."

DD "SOMEBODY GOT SAND IN THE POTATO SALAD!"

Sidekick "..."

#42 Posted by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack said:

Because DD is blind witch means his side kick would be deaf so their witty banter would go like this...

DD "I hate Mondays"

Sidekick "...."

DD "I hate fire alarms"

Sidekick "...."

DD "SOMEBODY GOT SAND IN THE POTATO SALAD!"

Sidekick "..."

Seems like you haven't read his team up with Echo.

#43 Posted by Teerack (5399 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz: I thought it was odvious that it was meant to be a bad joke :P

#44 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

"Oblivious"?

And no, I think Foggy has been a supporting character long enough for Daredevil to be considered a sidekick. You don't have to wear a costume to be a sidekick (e.g., Jimmy Olsen).

He has been Matt's sidekick for many many years. But Foggy didn't know Matt was DD to around the late to mid 90's. So no, Foggy isn't Daredevil's sidekick and never has been.

Assuming you mean 1995, keep in mind that that was 18 years ago. That's a while. That's hardly "never has been".

Foggy never helps Daredevil with his battles neither as a hero nor in a Oracle kind of role. Hell Maggie have help DD more (with injuries and such) than Foggy has. BW is without a doubt the closes DD had as sidekick. Partner would be a better term. Since a side kid is often a master/apprentice relationship rather than one there is equal. There is a clear difference between being a superheroes sidekick and the superheroes alter ego's side kick.

I think your definition of sidekick is arbitrarily narrow. I don't think sidekicks need to be costumed characters any more than superheroes do. The Shadow had Moe Shrevnitz and the Spirit had Ebony White—average joe taxi drivers both—as their sidekicks; I'd argue Foggy is as much Daredevil's sidekick. Also, I don't think you need a mentor/apprentice setup for the sidekick status. The term can imply subordinant status in terms of story focus (i.e., one is the protagonist, the other the deuteragonist) rather than in-story hierarchy such as mentor-student.

#45 Edited by tupiaz (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack said:

@tupiaz: I thought it was odvious that it was meant to be a bad joke :P

My bad then.

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

"Oblivious"?

And no, I think Foggy has been a supporting character long enough for Daredevil to be considered a sidekick. You don't have to wear a costume to be a sidekick (e.g., Jimmy Olsen).

He has been Matt's sidekick for many many years. But Foggy didn't know Matt was DD to around the late to mid 90's. So no, Foggy isn't Daredevil's sidekick and never has been.

Assuming you mean 1995, keep in mind that that was 18 years ago. That's a while. That's hardly "never has been".

Foggy never helps Daredevil with his battles neither as a hero nor in a Oracle kind of role. Hell Maggie have help DD more (with injuries and such) than Foggy has. BW is without a doubt the closes DD had as sidekick. Partner would be a better term. Since a side kid is often a master/apprentice relationship rather than one there is equal. There is a clear difference between being a superheroes sidekick and the superheroes alter ego's side kick.

I think your definition of sidekick is arbitrarily narrow. I don't think sidekicks need to be costumed characters any more than superheroes do. The Shadow had Moe Shrevnitz and the Spirit had Ebony White—average joe taxi drivers both—as their sidekicks; I'd argue Foggy is as much Daredevil's sidekick. Also, I don't think you need a mentor/apprentice setup for the sidekick status. The term can imply subordinant status in terms of story focus (i.e., one is the protagonist, the other the deuteragonist) rather than in-story hierarchy such as mentor-student.

Do I consider 95 mid 90's? I think that is the middles of middle 90's. However I can't remember Foggy ever helped DD. Give eksamples and issues. Back your opinion up with prove. If I could prove there is nothing there in any way I would love to. It is however a lot easier to prove that there is something. Besides that it was you who came with the claim and therefore you that needs to prove it.

Maybe you could use the angle protagonist/deuteragonist however it still needs to be connected to the hero, not the alter ego. Also I do consider Alfred as a helper of Batman and therefore you could call it a sidekick to Batman. Foggy doesn't even come close to have this relationship with Daredevil. However a sidekick does in someway implies that he is somehow like the main character. For instance in a group you are not each others sidekicks you are a group. Daredevil and Spider-man and not sidekicks either, they are partners that sometimes teams up. I think there is a difference in all these kinds of relationships and they are actually important to show the difference in the differed relationships since it gives a better understanding of how the character is.

#46 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@Teerack said:

@tupiaz: I thought it was odvious that it was meant to be a bad joke :P

My bad then.

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

@tupiaz said:

@fodigg said:

Wait, Foggy Nelson doesn't count?

Oblivious not.

"Oblivious"?

And no, I think Foggy has been a supporting character long enough for Daredevil to be considered a sidekick. You don't have to wear a costume to be a sidekick (e.g., Jimmy Olsen).

He has been Matt's sidekick for many many years. But Foggy didn't know Matt was DD to around the late to mid 90's. So no, Foggy isn't Daredevil's sidekick and never has been.

Assuming you mean 1995, keep in mind that that was 18 years ago. That's a while. That's hardly "never has been".

Foggy never helps Daredevil with his battles neither as a hero nor in a Oracle kind of role. Hell Maggie have help DD more (with injuries and such) than Foggy has. BW is without a doubt the closes DD had as sidekick. Partner would be a better term. Since a side kid is often a master/apprentice relationship rather than one there is equal. There is a clear difference between being a superheroes sidekick and the superheroes alter ego's side kick.

I think your definition of sidekick is arbitrarily narrow. I don't think sidekicks need to be costumed characters any more than superheroes do. The Shadow had Moe Shrevnitz and the Spirit had Ebony White—average joe taxi drivers both—as their sidekicks; I'd argue Foggy is as much Daredevil's sidekick. Also, I don't think you need a mentor/apprentice setup for the sidekick status. The term can imply subordinant status in terms of story focus (i.e., one is the protagonist, the other the deuteragonist) rather than in-story hierarchy such as mentor-student.

Do I consider 95 mid 90's? I think that is the middles of middle 90's.

I wasn't trying to imply you wouldn't, I was just ball-parking a figure to put a year on it. I don't know if it was actually '95 or not.

However I can't remember Foggy ever helped DD. Give eksamples and issues. Back your opinion up with prove. If I could prove there is nothing there in any way I would love to. It is however a lot easier to prove that there is something. Besides that it was you who came with the claim and therefore you that needs to prove it.

Maybe you could use the angle protagonist/deuteragonist however it still needs to be connected to the hero, not the alter ego. Also I do consider Alfred as a helper of Batman and therefore you could call it a sidekick to Batman. Foggy doesn't even come close to have this relationship with Daredevil. However a sidekick does in someway implies that he is somehow like the main character. For instance in a group you are not each others sidekicks you are a group. Daredevil and Spider-man and not sidekicks either, they are partners that sometimes teams up. I think there is a difference in all these kinds of relationships and they are actually important to show the difference in the differed relationships since it gives a better understanding of how the character is.

I understand the burden of proof just fine. However, I don't think giving you examples is going to mean much if we have different definitions of what constitutes a 'sidekick' to begin with. My estimation of a sidekick has as much to do with the specific relationships between the characters in question—which changes along with the writers behind the book—and role in the narrative. Yours seems to be defined by a specific archetype, including notable props, costumes, and prerequisite actions. We're not going to change those fundamentally different definitions by citing specific issues, and I'm not interested in proving my point in terms of your definition anyway. I'm happy to just declare a modus vivendi and leave it at that.

Thanks for the discussion!

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