I do not care for DD, the biggest question is, "How many X Men are going to join the team after the X Men are finished in October?"
Daredevil
Character » Daredevil appears in 4766 issues.
As a child, Matt Murdock was blinded by radioactive waste while trying to save an elderly stranger about to get hit by a truck carrying the dangerous material. In turn, his other senses were heightened to superhuman sharpness and he gained a form of "radar sense". By day, he is a successful trial lawyer; but by night, he guards Hell's Kitchen as Daredevil: the Man Without Fear.
Off My Mind: Daredevil Becomes a Team Player & Joins the New Avengers
Of course he is. Bendis and Loeb both have a strong personal connection to Daredevil. And with a new DD movie in the works, it makes perfect sense for Marvel to push him.
Of course he is. Bendis and Loeb both have a strong personal connection to Daredevil. And with a new DD movie in the works, it makes perfect sense for Marvel to push him."In the works" meaning they have hired someone to write a script. That's not being in the works, that's preparing to be in the works.
It's highly arguable if all this complimentary fiction and boosted amounts of comics for characters that have movies coming out has any effect on getting new fans ANYWAY. Much less doing it now, for a movie that won't be out until...when? Realistically. 2013? Maybe later?
Daredevil, in my opinion, went from being an example of how restarting a series can work fantastically (Kevin Smith's #1 and onward, I never disliked anyone's run) in the face of it dwindling, to being a prime example of gross and disgusting handling (The second half of Diggle's run, including Shadowland).
As much as another Daredevil #1 was pissing me off so soon after giving the title to Black Panther (Instead of giving it BACK to Daredevil), it was a legitimate chance to restart again from where the good half, the first half of Diggle's run left off, and picking up pieces from Shadowland. Now it's going to probably not be self-contained, it's going to be blended in with a billion other characters in the inter-connected Marvel Universe, too. Nothing wrong with that for some, everything wrong with that for Daredevil.
-The Mast
Could be interesting for Daredevil. Had always hoped he would join right back at the start of New Avengers with the Breakout arc, finger crossed for this.
I like DD in his own corner of the MU, if he's got nothing to do in Hell's Kitchen anymore, I suppose he'll do ok on the team.
Bendis doing DD again though ruins this for me, I hate having to give him money so's I can read DD's adventures, >:( He already ruined DD for me once.
@cosmo111687 said:Yeah, but it's a leap-frog effect. Avengers is going to come out sooner than Dare Devil, which will get viewers of the Avengers (possibly) reading the newest Avenger's comic and then, after they get acquainted to Daredevil through the Avengers comic, they'll go watch the Dare Devil movie which is slated to come out 6 months or so after The Avengers movie.Of course he is. Bendis and Loeb both have a strong personal connection to Daredevil. And with a new DD movie in the works, it makes perfect sense for Marvel to push him."In the works" meaning they have hired someone to write a script. That's not being in the works, that's preparing to be in the works. It's highly arguable if all this complimentary fiction and boosted amounts of comics for characters that have movies coming out has any effect on getting new fans ANYWAY. Much less doing it now, for a movie that won't be out until...when? Realistically. 2013? Maybe later? Daredevil, in my opinion, went from being an example of how restarting a series can work fantastically (Kevin Smith's #1 and onward, I never disliked anyone's run) in the face of it dwindling, to being a prime example of gross and disgusting handling (The second half of Diggle's run, including Shadowland). As much as another Daredevil #1 was pissing me off so soon after giving the title to Black Panther (Instead of giving it BACK to Daredevil), it was a legitimate chance to restart again from where the good half, the first half of Diggle's run left off, and picking up pieces from Shadowland. Now it's going to probably not be self-contained, it's going to be blended in with a billion other characters in the inter-connected Marvel Universe, too. Nothing wrong with that for some, everything wrong with that for Daredevil. -The Mast
Of course, whither it works or not is up to debate. But clearly Marvel believes it does, judging from all the cross-promotion they did with Thor. And I'm not arguing it's a good move at all. Putting all of these Marvel characters into the Avengers is the artistic equivalent of throwing the "Mona Lisa", "Starry Night", and "Guernica" into one massive super painting and then putting it on tour just to make tons of money. None of those painting work together, stylistically, and you'll ruin those masterpieces forever, but they'll do it anyways if it turns over a buck. It's why, in spite of all the stress DC is putting me through as a DC fan, it's nothing compared to the disgust I feel when I consider reading a Marvel comic.
Daredevil as an Avenger, any kind of Avenger?
No, no, no, no, NO.
It's bad enough Spiderman's an Avenger, don't need to add DD.
Earth's Mightiest Heroes... how in the world does DD fit into that?
Yeah, I know, New Avengers, but still... Ms. Marvel, Dr. Strange, Thing...DD.... one of these things is not like the others.
@The Mast said:I think it's markedly interesting that you say there's a leap-frog effect. The thought process you just proposed is the biggest possible leap-frog of assumption. First, you suggest The Avengers will get people READING their series. That, in and of itself, is utterly wishful thinking. Comic reading is an on-going hobby, Cosmo. People who enjoy sitting in a cinema for a couple of hours, watching Iron Man, do not necessarily want to get comics every week, or month, and read them. Not enough people read as it is.@cosmo111687 said:Yeah, but it's a leap-frog effect. Avengers is going to come out sooner than Dare Devil, which will get viewers of the Avengers (possibly) reading the newest Avenger's comic and then, after they get acquainted to Daredevil through the Avengers comic, they'll go watch the Dare Devil movie which is slated to come out 6 months or so after The Avengers movie. Of course, whither it works or not is up to debate. But clearly Marvel believes it does, judging from all the cross-promotion they did with Thor. And I'm not arguing it's a good move at all. Putting all of these Marvel characters into the Avengers is the artistic equivalent of throwing the "Mona Lisa", "Starry Night", and "Guernica" into one massive super painting and then putting it on tour just to make tons of money. None of those painting work together, stylistically, and you'll ruin those masterpieces forever, but they'll do it anyways if it turns over a buck. It's why, in spite of all the stress DC is putting me through as a DC fan, it's nothing compared to the disgust I feel when I consider reading a Marvel comic.Of course he is. Bendis and Loeb both have a strong personal connection to Daredevil. And with a new DD movie in the works, it makes perfect sense for Marvel to push him."In the works" meaning they have hired someone to write a script. That's not being in the works, that's preparing to be in the works. It's highly arguable if all this complimentary fiction and boosted amounts of comics for characters that have movies coming out has any effect on getting new fans ANYWAY. Much less doing it now, for a movie that won't be out until...when? Realistically. 2013? Maybe later? Daredevil, in my opinion, went from being an example of how restarting a series can work fantastically (Kevin Smith's #1 and onward, I never disliked anyone's run) in the face of it dwindling, to being a prime example of gross and disgusting handling (The second half of Diggle's run, including Shadowland). As much as another Daredevil #1 was pissing me off so soon after giving the title to Black Panther (Instead of giving it BACK to Daredevil), it was a legitimate chance to restart again from where the good half, the first half of Diggle's run left off, and picking up pieces from Shadowland. Now it's going to probably not be self-contained, it's going to be blended in with a billion other characters in the inter-connected Marvel Universe, too. Nothing wrong with that for some, everything wrong with that for Daredevil. -The Mast
Then you make leap the abyss of assumption by saying they'll become familiarised with Daredevil through that. 1. He may not even be on the team then. 2. He almost inarguably will not have enough character content to make people like him, that would likely come from his main title (See my point about people even getting into the comics). I have major issue with this idea that movies are a gateway to the comics. It can happen, it does happen. Nearly as much as Marvel would hope? No. Certainly not in any profitable way. They might, at best, pick up a trade or two. That in itself is a longshot to assume.
So, ignoring the whole "Movies make people interested in comics." idea, it's still a poor choice. Bendis clearly wants to write Daredevil at any cost, and I've said before that he should've just lobbied for the new #1. He would've got it. That, or put out Daredevil: End of Days. Don't crowbar him into a team where he is surplus to requirements, to the point that it's almost disrespectful to Daredevil.
Why is he on a team with Ms. Marvel? Everything Daredevil is best at, besides legal matters, is covered and then some. Sure, he could hold his own against Wolverine and maybe Spidey at a massive push...in combat solely. Cage too. What else is he bringing, though? Even if they had Spidey, forgetting Iron Fist and Wolverine, it would be overkill. I say this as someone who considers Daredevil his absolute favourite, too.
The only good to come of this is if Matt hooks up with Ms. Marvel. At least then she won't die the first time Bullseye magically shows up and decides to throw something at her.
-The Mast
What's with Solo Heroes joining teams all of sudden? Spider-Man has always been a solo hero, and now he's a Team player? Now they pushing DD onto teams too? WTF??
Seeing as how Jessica Jones is the worst candidate for Daredevil's next lover, there's a good chance he'll go for her first. The man is positively incapable of establishing healthy relationships.Jessica Jones no way in hell lol
Why do I feel that the New Avengers should be the Marvel Knights?
I mean they already have the important street heroes with the exception of Moon Knight, so why not change their name?
Eh, why not. I've always felt that one of Matt's greatest weakness' is that he doesn't reach out for help more often. Should at least make for some interesting stories.
I have been waiting for this since New Avengers #1...
Isn't it great how Daredevil has already been forgiven ( more or less ) for Shadowland, but Tony Stark still has to take crap from nearly everyone for Civil War ( even though he wasn't the only one responsible ) ? Anyway, I think it's an odd decision... But hey, New Avengers isn't one of my monthlies, so I don't mind.THIS
Hand is a lesbian, so no.Heck, if Daredevil really wanted to, he could even try hooking up with ... Victoria Hand.
It's not wishful thinking that The Avengers film will get people reading The Avenger's comic book series. It's a fact. It will draw new readers. Most people who watch the movies won't read the comic book series, but that doesn't mean there won't be people who will. Just a bit of anecdotal evidence: the first comic I read was Ultimate Spider-Man #1 (back in 2002-ish), and that was because I enjoyed the Spider-Man movie and the 90s Spider-Man cartoon so much that I wanted to read more.
"Then you make leap the abyss of assumption by saying they'll become familiarised with Daredevil through that. 1. He may not even be on the team then. 2. He almost inarguably will not have enough character content to make people like him, that would likely come from his main title (See my point about people even getting into the comics)."
He might be on the team then and he might not. That's speculation. But since Bendis is personally attached to Daredevil and since they've already gone through the trouble of putting him in, than I'm leaning towards "he will still be an Avenger". And it's in no way inarguable that Daredevil won't have enough character content for people to like him (you probably won't like the change, but there will be readers who will). Since you haven't read any of Bendis' scripts, I'm going to have to call you out on that one and say that that's a completely unfair assumption. Besides, people who like Daredevil in The Avengers (and, to repeat, there will be some), but who haven't really gotten into him before, will likely read Daredevil's main titles.
"I have major issue with this idea that movies are a gateway to the comics. It can happen, it does happen. Nearly as much as Marvel would hope? No. Certainly not in any profitable way. They might, at best, pick up a trade or two. That in itself is a longshot to assume. So, ignoring the whole "Movies make people interested in comics." idea, it's still a poor choice."
Unless if the exposure is negative (i. e. the film, video game, commercial, etc. stinks), then greater exposure = increased audience, always. However, I agree with you that the growth of comic book readers will only be marginal. But Marvel isn't so much concerned about gaining new comic book fans as much as keeping franchises alive so that they can profit off of movie, merchandising, and cross-promotion deals. And since Marvel is putting a lot of their money into pushing The Avengers and their future movie franchises, putting Daredevil in the Avengers is what makes the most sense, business-wise.
"Bendis clearly wants to write Daredevil at any cost, and I've said before that he should've just lobbied for the new #1. He would've got it. That, or put out Daredevil: End of Days. Don't crowbar him into a team where he is surplus to requirements, to the point that it's almost disrespectful to Daredevil. Why is he on a team with Ms. Marvel? Everything Daredevil is best at, besides legal matters, is covered and then some. Sure, he could hold his own against Wolverine and maybe Spidey at a massive push...in combat solely. Cage too. What else is he bringing, though? Even if they had Spidey, forgetting Iron Fist and Wolverine, it would be overkill. I say this as someone who considers Daredevil his absolute favourite, too. The only good to come of this is if Matt hooks up with Ms. Marvel. At least then she won't die the first time Bullseye magically shows up and decides to throw something at her. -The Mast"
Yeah, this is what I was saying before. I agree that it seems artistically irresponsible for Marvel to make this change to Daredevil and, being cynical about Marvel in general, I've chalked their decision up to making profit.
- The Cosmo
I believe Daredevil should say a loner. He's the Batman of MarvelAnd Batman has been part of the JLA and Outsiders
@The Mast:Why are you using yourself as an example to counter something I never said?
It's not wishful thinking that The Avengers film will get people reading The Avenger's comic book series. It's a fact. It will draw new readers. Most people who watch the movies won't read the comic book series, but that doesn't mean there won't be people who will. Just a bit of anecdotal evidence: the first comic I read was Ultimate Spider-Man #1 (back in 2002-ish), and that was because I enjoyed the Spider-Man movie and the 90s Spider-Man cartoon so much that I wanted to read more.
He might be on the team then and he might not. That's speculation. But since Bendis is personally attached to Daredevil and since they've already gone through the trouble of putting him in, than I'm leaning towards "he will still be an Avenger". And it's in no way inarguable that Daredevil won't have enough character content for people to like him (you probably won't like the change, but there will be readers who will). Since you haven't read any of Bendis' scripts, I'm going to have to call you out on that one and say that that's a completely unfair assumption. Besides, people who like Daredevil in The Avengers (and, to repeat, there will be some), but who haven't really gotten into him before, will likely read Daredevil's main titles.
Unless if the exposure is negative (i. e. the film, video game, commercial, etc. stinks), then greater exposure = increased audience, always. However, I agree with you that the growth of comic book readers will only be marginal. But Marvel isn't so much concerned about gaining new comic book fans as much as keeping franchises alive so that they can profit off of movie, merchandising, and cross-promotion deals. And since Marvel is putting a lot of their money into pushing The Avengers and their future movie franchises, putting Daredevil in the Avengers is what makes the most sense, business-wise.
Yeah, this is what I was saying before. I agree that it seems artistically irresponsible for Marvel to make this change to Daredevil and, being cynical about Marvel in general, I've chalked their decision up to making profit. - The Cosmo
I never said people do not get into comics via movies. I said the number who do Vs the number who do not is vastly different. I would wager that more than 90% of comic book movie watchers do not follow up on the source. Those that do probably do not stick with it. Generally because it's such a niche thing, and it takes continual interest. This is not like when Fight Club came out and people only had one book of source material. It DOES happen, but it's not so common that people become dedicated fans and supporters of the medium that it can be relied upon as a method of getting people into comics.
It's not an unfair assumption. Daredevil's character has always been best conveyed through his internal monologue. Look at the character in X-Force. Unless you know who they are, you are not getting major individual character insight. You're putting the pieces there yourself from what you already know. Sure, new readers can dig it, but it's better if you've already had experience with each individual character. No new reader is gonna appreciate Spidey from The New Avengers alone, for example.
Greater exposure does NOT equal that. When movies start leading to swathes of fans flocking to the source, we can discuss it further. However, the implicit fact is that movies do not generally lead to enough new, continual, dedicated fans to be considered a good source for gaining them. If they did, D.C. would not be rebooting their shit to get youngsters/new fans. Marvel would not have Ultimate or Point Ones. Also, look at Spider-Man 3. Made a bajilion dollars. Right? What do you STILL hear people saying, to this day? That it generally sucked. When a comic book movie sucks, it's generally comic FANS who think so, and the negative memory lives longer than popcorn eaters who loved it. They don't rush out to buy the comics. They just like the movie.
-The Mast
Huh? But you did say that, in that quote, that movies DON'T bring in new fans, to which I responded that I'm an example that it does.
"I never said people do not get into comics via movies."
Again, you did. But then you contradicted your earlier statement by saying that they do. But, ignoring your contradiction, I agreed that the revenue they'd gain from comic book sales would be marginal at best (from what I observe as an American. Who knows, maybe they make a huge amount of money on comic books from their movies in Brazil or Malaysia, and I just don't know about it.)
"I said the number who do Vs the number who do not is vastly different. I would wager that more than 90% of comic book movie watchers do not follow up on the source. Those that do probably do not stick with it. Generally because it's such a niche thing, and it takes continual interest. This is not like when Fight Club came out and people only had one book of source material. It DOES happen, but it's not so common that people become dedicated fans and supporters of the medium that it can be relied upon as a method of getting people into comics."
Um, again, I agreed with you on this...(I'm honestly getting the impression that you haven't truly understood anything I've said.)
"It's not an unfair assumption. Daredevil's character has always been best conveyed through his internal monologue. Look at the character in X-Force. Unless you know who they are, you are not getting major individual character insight. You're putting the pieces there yourself from what you already know. Sure, new readers can dig it, but it's better if you've already had experience with each individual character. No new reader is gonna appreciate Spidey from The New Avengers alone, for example."
It is an unfair assumption. You have no idea how Daredevil is going to be written. For instance, how do you know that he won't still be written with internal monologue? Unlike X-Force, Avengers is absolutely a gateway comic book for new fans of Marvel to get a very basic understanding of their key characters. Yes, it's better if you've already had experience with each individual character. But Avengers is just a launching-pad for that.
"Greater exposure does NOT equal that. When movies start leading to swathes of fans flocking to the source, we can discuss it further. However, the implicit fact is that movies do not generally lead to enough new, continual, dedicated fans to be considered a good source for gaining them. If they did, D.C. would not be rebooting their shit to get youngsters/new fans. Marvel would not have Ultimate or Point Ones. Also, look at Spider-Man 3. Made a bajilion dollars. Right? What do you STILL hear people saying, to this day? That it generally sucked. When a comic book movie sucks, it's generally comic FANS who think so, and the negative memory lives longer than popcorn eaters who loved it. They don't rush out to buy the comics. They just like the movie."
Let me refer you back to what I said: " Unless if the exposure is negative (i. e. the film, video game, commercial, etc. stinks), then greater exposure = increased audience, always."
And I honestly don't know why you're arguing with me. I agree with you in that I think it's artistically irresponsible of Marvel to dilute their characters by putting them in a massive super-hero team just so to support their film franchises (if, as I presume, that is indeed the case.)
@The Mast: Again, you did. But then you contradicted your earlier statement by saying that they do. But, ignoring your contradiction, I agreed that the revenue they'd gain from comic book sales would be marginal at best (from what I observe as an American. Who knows, maybe they make a huge amount of money on comic books from their movies in Brazil or Malaysia, and I just don't know about it.)Uhh, no I didn't. I said it's wishful thinking to suggest that The Avengers is going to get people into reading The Avengers on a regular basis and that it's arguable how effective movies are at gaining new fans. Then proposed that a massive percentage of people do not go to read the source. I never once said movies do not, under any circumstance, bring new fans in. You have extracted that yourself.
Um, again, I agreed with you on this...(I'm honestly getting the impression that you haven't truly understood anything I've said.)
It is an unfair assumption. You have no idea how Daredevil is going to be written. For instance, how do you know that he won't still be written with internal monologue? Unlike X-Force, Avengers is absolutely a gateway comic book for new fans of Marvel to get a very basic understanding of their key characters. Yes, it's better if you've already had experience with each individual character. But Avengers is just a launching-pad for that.
Let me refer you back to what I said: " Unless if the exposure is negative (i. e. the film, video game, commercial, etc. stinks), then greater exposure = increased audience, always." And I honestly don't know why you're arguing with me. I agree with you in that I think it's artistically irresponsible of Marvel to dilute their characters by putting them in a massive super-hero team just so to support their film franchises (if, as I presume, that is indeed the case.)
I don't have any idea? True. I just have all 512 issues of Daredevil for a joke. Really? I've read Bendis' run and I love it, I obviously own it. However, that was because it was Daredevil and Daredevil alone. Have you read his Daredevil? He will not capture that spirit in The New Avengers. He will not capture the spirit that is conveyed in Daredevil having pages dialogue, which is the best way to write Daredevil, because he won't GET the amount of dialogue he needs as a character. I don't like to say things like this, but generally, I know my shit about Daredevil to the point that challenges pertaining to his text don't necessarily go well for opponents. I have read all 512 issues of his series and all of his 616 appearances. He is at his best when he has lots of dialogue.
Is he going to get that in a book with Ms. Marvel, Luke Cage, Spidey, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Jessica, Dr. Strange...et al? No. He is not.
There is a blatant reason why Daredevil has never, ever been on a team. It's not like nobody has approached the idea. They have. He has been offered places on teams before. He has turned them down. He made a point to, and the writers made a point to. This is so contradictory. Sure, you ca argue he might do it to help get back on his feet, but he has gone through MUCH worse and came out of it. He got over the death of Elektra, Page and many other tragedies. He can get over being under some bullshit magical influence, during which he killed Bullseye. I'm not surprised they're all forgiving him. Stark did what he did of sane mind and proper thought, agree or disagree with WHAT he did, he chose to do it. Daredevil was under control by The Hand. Whilst under said influence he killed a brutal and evil mass murdering psychopath. Boo hoo.
This is just a bad creative call.
-The Mast
I'm joining the New Avengers as well. It's what all the kewl kids are doing these days!LOL! I've actually honestly got an Avengers membership card in my wallet that I got from Wizard years ago, so it's really not that hard to join.
Wow..he smacked Black Widow on the arse and he was allowed to keep that hand?!Of course he's Daredevil
Daredevil as an Avenger, any kind of Avenger? No, no, no, no, NO. It's bad enough Spiderman's an Avenger, don't need to add DD. Earth's Mightiest Heroes... how in the world does DD fit into that? Yeah, I know, New Avengers, but still... Ms. Marvel, Dr. Strange, Thing...DD.... one of these things is not like the others.Daredevil was supposed to be one of the original New Avengers.
What do they need DD for? You already have Logan for the senses, Iron Fist, Wolverine, and Spiderman are great fighters, Thing, Luke Cage, Ms Marvel, and Spiderman have the strength. What's the point of DD. Apparently he is replacing Mockingbird.Strength in #'s.He doesn't bring any special talents to the team although he is probably the best tracker on team above Wolverine but if Mockingbird won't be there (and she was far more useless on this team than he is) than I don't see why DD can't replace her.
A little funny though, Daredevil had considered joining the Avengers twice in the past, once in the late '80s and once during the Busiek/Quesada run. Both times he decided against it, on the basis that his powers works better when he's alone, since every ally around is an extra object for his radar to track so, unless he's perfectly attuned with him/her (like he was with Tasha and Spiderman), he might end up hitting his allies instead of his enemies.
I really hope the authors will consider this, at least in the first part of his membership.
Hmm-Daredevil's done some hanging out with an ad hoc group like the Defenders(and the FF) but he's NEVER been much of a "team player" before-this is an intriguing development!
Terry
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