The Death of Damian is the Worst thing that can happen in Batman

Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont think i need spoilers tags since pretty much by now everybody knows what happen.

Damian Wayne, the 5th Robin was killed recently in Batman Incorporated #8 and i have already talk a lot about what i think of Death in comics in another blogpost but my thoughts on this matter are slightly different here.

I dont think this death was made because of shock value or something similar but this is a death that really leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Not just because Im a fan of the character but because i feel that this is an step backwards in many ways.

THE NEW 52? What about the NEW Batman?

Before the New 52 was implemented I was actually really enthusiastic about it, I felt that it was an opportunity for DC to clean its continuity and open new possibilities while at the same time allowing the old things to work in different ways, Now I think very different about it specially when talking about Batman here.

I have read Batman since DC changed his universe forever in 2005 with the event of Infinite Crisis and with that evenet came Morrison's epic Batman run. Whatever you like it or not Morrison changed Batman and he changed the way people see Batman not only readers but writers too and the way he did that was by simply evolving the concept, taking it into its next logical step.

Many remember that Morrison's first arc was title Batman & Son, what not many seems to recall is the title of the first chp

Building a Better Batmovile

That right there is the core concept of Morrison's entire run, Building something better, and to do that he used all the parts that he could, this is why he tap into all those old stories of the silver age, he revived old concepts and all those things that preceded his run as base for his run and by doing so he created a new level by simply supporting himself into those old forgotten parts of Batman's own history.

Thats how he build a new Batmovile and therefore thats how he build a new Batman.

The replacement Batmen, The death and return of Bruce Wayne, The New Son, The New Red Robin, The New Batman and Robin, The New Batgirl and Oracle, The New Outsiders, The New Batmovile, The New Villains, a New Purpose.

Those things were genuinely NEW.

The idea of "new" implies that there was something old however it doesnt imply that it is something different.

Those things were the product of the evolution of Batman and that was suppose to be the new Status Quo and here is the thing about evolution, it goes up as in an spiral pattern.

However DC using the new 52 got rid of all that in the name of NEW, all got lost in the name of "progress" and we got back to the same old status quo.

The new Batman is just the same Old one in a new package, Dick Grayson no longer wears a cowl, the Batmovile cannot fly and from now on Batman no longer has a son so at the end of the day when the last page of Morrison's run had been turn and assuming Robin remains dead, if Dick is Nightwing and the Batmovile is still the same and if pretty much every is back as it was before Morrison's run and in certain cases like Oracle for example have regressed even further then...

What did we accomplished? where is that next level on top of all of this?

If the only accomplishment of this journey was the sole journey on its own then for future references you might as well completely ignore it cause it has nothing do to with this NEW Batman..

So go tell the future writers and readers to just be oblivious about it because there is nothing NEW coming from this, that there is no next stage, it doesnt exists and Batman wont move up that spiral anymore and will keep going in an never ending cycle.

The Morrison run has officially become old and obsolete and the "NEW" in my respect is just something even older and even more obsolete.

The Problems with Damian

JUST 5 YEARS?

Suffocating, There is no other word to describe what the 5 year timeline means to Batman.

Its constraining, Its limiting, its cutting his oxygen and stealing his life out of it and the reason is simple to understand.

Morrison made Batman progress not despite of his continuity but because of it, all those experiences, all those years cant be compress into 5 years, its taking away what made it advance.

Its basically like removing the engine of a car with the idea that it will go faster cause the car is lighter.

This has been a huge problem with Damian Wayne simply because he is 10 years old and even the most moderated calculus put only 7 years in the continuity of Batman, but thats just a general timeline since In Batman & Robin 0 he had a total of 5 birthdays 1 year and a half before Batman and son which indicates that he grew in real time and wasnt artificially aged, of course it doesnt help that writers just deal with this problem by ignoring the issue entirely.

How old are you again?

It almost seems like Damian just doesnt fit into this NEW 52 continuity

Robin is dead, All Hail the new Robin!

It just amazes me that the second that it was hinted of the possibility of Damian dieing a ton of people start speculating about who or when would a new Robin, i guess thats the fan mentality and even i would lie if i dont admit that I did contemplated the possibilities.

Some people say Its going to be Harper Row, becoming the 5 robin in continuity and the 3rd girl wonder

other say a big return to either Cass Cain or Stephanie Brown would be well received too.

But what people doesnt seem to think about is what does to have a new robin?

What does it mean to Batman and what does it mean to Damian.

does having a new robin so soon implies that Damian's return will be much later than sooner and if it is sooner what happens if he returns and finds himself replaced already.

would he take on a different name then or would we have 2 robins?

What does this means to the fans who still want to read about Damian?

What exactly is this "Death" you talk about?

There is a huge difference between the death of Jason Todd and the death of Damian and that is that Jason just wasnt popular when he died so not many people missed him and the impact of his dead was actually bigger than the impact that he made in life. still Jason returned to life and his return brought a lot of other interesting elements.

But with Damian and in the current state of comics, its practically impossible to thing that he will stay dead for 15 years much less a full year

Even though Morrison thought on killing him on his first appearance, he didnt, he survived and he became popular

There is the Lazarus Pit, thats how Jason return officially

Maybe he will get revived by the white lantern

Or some supernatural

Some people even say he will sell his soul to the devil to return like it was hinted in Batman 666

And some even say that he will be back before the end of Batman Inc.

So at the end of the day, What is this death about?

because even if you consider that the death of Robin is bad because of the absence he provokes on batman as well as the inconcequense which leaves Morrison's run in, on the other hand the death of Damian is still part of Morrison's run.

Therefore the inevitable return of Damian becomes nothing more than a complete disconnection of Morrison entirely, this of course assuming that Robin stays dead by the end of Morrison's run.

His return marks the end of everything Morrison created because a resurrected Damian would just be something else entirely or just a pale copy of Morrison.

THE MAIN PROBLEM

There are 2 possibilities and only 2

  • Either Damian comes back to life soon
  • or he doesnt come back soon

And even though this will be my humble opinion, BOTH CHOICES SUCK

You may notice that I dont include "he wont come back ever" because its just not a realistic choice, because if it isnt soon maybe in 10 or 20 or 50 years someone somewhere will try this character again.

so the manner in question is simply When will he be back and he can come back sooner or later

Either way, he is just not going to be here for some time, writers wont be able to write his stories anymore and for a long time and that is exactly why this is such a terrible thing.

Whatever if it is a year or 20 years it is still a huge step backwards, it simply ending that world that Morrison created..

Im not discrediting writers like Snyder, Layman, Tomasi or Hurwitz by thinking they cant create a new world for batman like Morrison did, and in some cases Snyder has created some genuinely new interesting concepts too as well as utilizing the own history of batman and respecting his continuity.

What Im questioning is the sole idea of making Batman new utilizing new parts and forget about what made Batman good in the first place.

I read comics because i want to see what happens next, what will be the next step, the next adventure and how will the story progress and thanks to the new 52 and the lost of Morrison's concepts i feel that we are not progressing and its because we are not, we are not moving forward anymore

I dont want an story where Batman deals with the dead of a robin cause we already had that or where he gets a new robin who is a girl or not because robin left/died, already cover.

We are moving Backwards. and DC thinks that is something New just because we are seeing the same scenery from another point of view.

Where did all that progress go?

End of Blog Post

Check out my Personal Blog lets-talk-about-comics.blogspot.com

Also Check out Batwatch.net

#1 Posted by Onemoreposter (3954 posts) - - Show Bio

........Robins not dead yet........

he can make it

#2 Posted by BatWatch (2366 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I've had a couple of blogs recently that I forgot to attach to a thread. I've asked some mods to move them but have received no help. Lame.

Anyway, I thought you had a whole bunch of good thoughts in here. That was very interesting about the first real issue of Morrison's new run being called "Building a Better Batmobile." I assume you did mean Batmobile, right? Like you pointed out, that does seem to be the direction and point of Morrison's entire run until now. I mean, if not for the reboot then a lot of Morrison's progress would still be intact, and this would be one loss, albeit a major one, among many gains, but because of the reboot, it does pretty much start us back at square one except perhaps Bruce will still have Batman, Inc.

I definitely feel that the DCNU has been a net loss for DC in terms of story, and it might end up being a financial loss as well in the long run. It is quite annoying that DC claims to be going in new directions while rehashing old stories.

You are also very right that the strength of Morrison's stories are based on his ties to past continuity, and that has been largely wiped out by the DCNU. Very sad.

I do hope they do not replace Damian immediately. It would cheapen his death in my view, but April's cover makes it look like Bruce is looking at someone, so...I can't help but wonder if that is the new Robin.

Personally, I'm guessing Damian will be dead for a few years. There is a chance he might be resurrected by the end of Batman, Inc. but I'm inclined to think that will not be the case since they are emphasizing the fallout. Maybe, but...I don't know.

#3 Posted by Stormbox (2001 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by Onemoreposter (3954 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Onemoreposter said:

@Stormbox said:

@Onemoreposter said:

........Robins not dead yet........

he can make it

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/comic-book-preview/1988/batman-family-death-reaction-covers/753785/#95

I think these covers kind of negate any possibility damian might have had of returning, at least in the short term

People though Alfred wasnt going to make it and Jason's face was going to be mangled after Death of the Family based on a hand full of panels and covers. We kno how that turned out.

this is something completely different

#6 Posted by havoc1201 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@Onemoreposter said:

@Stormbox said:

@Onemoreposter said:

........Robins not dead yet........

he can make it

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/comic-book-preview/1988/batman-family-death-reaction-covers/753785/#95

I think these covers kind of negate any possibility damian might have had of returning, at least in the short term

People though Alfred wasnt going to make it and Jason's face was going to be mangled after Death of the Family based on a hand full of panels and covers. We kno how that turned out.

this is something completely different

Jasons face is mangled rhto last issue

#7 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch said:

Man, I've had a couple of blogs recently that I forgot to attach to a thread. I've asked some mods to move them but have received no help. Lame.

Anyway, I thought you had a whole bunch of good thoughts in here. That was very interesting about the first real issue of Morrison's new run being called "Building a Better Batmobile." I assume you did mean Batmobile, right? Like you pointed out, that does seem to be the direction and point of Morrison's entire run until now. I mean, if not for the reboot then a lot of Morrison's progress would still be intact, and this would be one loss, albeit a major one, among many gains, but because of the reboot, it does pretty much start us back at square one except perhaps Bruce will still have Batman, Inc.

I dont understand the question

I definitely feel that the DCNU has been a net loss for DC in terms of story, and it might end up being a financial loss as well in the long run. It is quite annoying that DC claims to be going in new directions while rehashing old stories.

You are also very right that the strength of Morrison's stories are based on his ties to past continuity, and that has been largely wiped out by the DCNU. Very sad.

I do hope they do not replace Damian immediately. It would cheapen his death in my view, but April's cover makes it look like Bruce is looking at someone, so...I can't help but wonder if that is the new Robin.

Personally, I'm guessing Damian will be dead for a few years. There is a chance he might be resurrected by the end of Batman, Inc. but I'm inclined to think that will not be the case since they are emphsizing the fallout. Maybe, but...I don't know.

I dont think we will get a new robin at least in the next 6 months minimum

that in the case that we get it as soon as possible and if we get a new robin i dont think that Damian will return in no less than 2 years

@havoc1201 said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@Onemoreposter said:

@Stormbox said:

@Onemoreposter said:

........Robins not dead yet........

he can make it

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/comic-book-preview/1988/batman-family-death-reaction-covers/753785/#95

I think these covers kind of negate any possibility damian might have had of returning, at least in the short term

People though Alfred wasnt going to make it and Jason's face was going to be mangled after Death of the Family based on a hand full of panels and covers. We kno how that turned out.

this is something completely different

Jasons face is mangled rhto last issue

I know that, what exactly is your point?

#8 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep!

#9 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

It just stinks that Morrison had to kill Damian, because he was my favorite member of the Bat-family (besides Batman). Best costume, most powerful, possibly the smartest, and he was always really interesting to read.

#10 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8435 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: Actually the flying Batmobile was already used in Batman and Robin first six issues. People love to complain about the 5 years,but no one stop and think a little about it,Damian was genetically involved and aged,let's think if the Heretic is Damian clone how he can be more older?? Simple Genetic Science and more Dc already says about the 5 years thing,Batman act 3 years before the five years (Because he was considered a legend),he just became know to people in the 5 years thing.

#11 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21 said:

@arnoldoaad: Actually the flying Batmobile was already used in Batman and Robin first six issues.

that wasnt the flying batmovile, I checked

People love to complain about the 5 years,but no one stop and think a little about it,Damian was genetically involved and aged,let's think if the Heretic is Damian clone how he can be more older??

which is why he had 5 birthdays 1.5 years before now.

look the numbers just dont add up, and it is never explain if he was artificially aged or not.

specially cause he WASNT artificially age before the new 52 because there was more than 5 years timeline

Simple Genetic Science and more Dc already says about the 5 years thing,Batman act 3 years before the five years (Because he was considered a legend),he just became know to people in the 5 years thing.

thats really too simplistic thinking

and it completely misses the point i was trying to make about Morrison's run

and finally that bolded part, you dont know if he was active 3 years before JL#1, in Batman Annual #1 he was active only a year before that

Hurwitz presented a different timeline in Tec and BTDK and also Tomasi in B&R, everybody his own idea and there is no coordination at all

#12 Posted by Avenger85 (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

I am so sad to see the little guy go. :(

Time for a new, and improved KILLER Batman, starting with Talia and her dad splattered all across the wall !

#13 Posted by Humanoid (132 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@BatWatch said:

Man, I've had a couple of blogs recently that I forgot to attach to a thread. I've asked some mods to move them but have received no help. Lame.

Anyway, I thought you had a whole bunch of good thoughts in here. That was very interesting about the first real issue of Morrison's new run being called "Building a Better Batmobile." I assume you did mean Batmobile, right? Like you pointed out, that does seem to be the direction and point of Morrison's entire run until now. I mean, if not for the reboot then a lot of Morrison's progress would still be intact, and this would be one loss, albeit a major one, among many gains, but because of the reboot, it does pretty much start us back at square one except perhaps Bruce will still have Batman, Inc.

I dont understand the question

I definitely feel that the DCNU has been a net loss for DC in terms of story, and it might end up being a financial loss as well in the long run. It is quite annoying that DC claims to be going in new directions while rehashing old stories.

You are also very right that the strength of Morrison's stories are based on his ties to past continuity, and that has been largely wiped out by the DCNU. Very sad.

I do hope they do not replace Damian immediately. It would cheapen his death in my view, but April's cover makes it look like Bruce is looking at someone, so...I can't help but wonder if that is the new Robin.

Personally, I'm guessing Damian will be dead for a few years. There is a chance he might be resurrected by the end of Batman, Inc. but I'm inclined to think that will not be the case since they are emphsizing the fallout. Maybe, but...I don't know.

I dont think we will get a new robin at least in the next 6 months minimum

that in the case that we get it as soon as possible and if we get a new robin i dont think that Damian will return in no less than 2 years

@havoc1201 said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@Onemoreposter said:

@Stormbox said:

@Onemoreposter said:

........Robins not dead yet........

he can make it

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/comic-book-preview/1988/batman-family-death-reaction-covers/753785/#95

I think these covers kind of negate any possibility damian might have had of returning, at least in the short term

People though Alfred wasnt going to make it and Jason's face was going to be mangled after Death of the Family based on a hand full of panels and covers. We kno how that turned out.

this is something completely different

Jasons face is mangled rhto last issue

I know that, what exactly is your point?

His point was that the comic book cover revealed that Jasons face got mangled.. and it did.

#14 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Humanoid said:

@havoc1201 said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@Onemoreposter said:

@Stormbox said:

@Onemoreposter said:

........Robins not dead yet........

he can make it

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/comic-book-preview/1988/batman-family-death-reaction-covers/753785/#95

I think these covers kind of negate any possibility damian might have had of returning, at least in the short term

People though Alfred wasnt going to make it and Jason's face was going to be mangled after Death of the Family based on a hand full of panels and covers. We kno how that turned out.

this is something completely different

Jasons face is mangled rhto last issue

I know that, what exactly is your point?

His point was that the comic book cover revealed that Jasons face got mangled.. and it did.

ok lets go back

@Onemoreposter said that Damian might still be alive

to which @Stormbox pointed that the covers confirm that he is dead

and then he replied that people thought that Alfred was going to die with practically no evidence and that Jason's face was going to be burn

on which did happen and one which didnt

...

so what is his side again?

#15 Posted by havoc1201 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: i was just saying that Jason was burned, when you first commented you didnt say that one happened and the other didnt so i wrote jason was mangled thats all

#16 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@havoc1201 said:

@arnoldoaad: i was just saying that Jason was burned, when you first commented you didnt say that one happened and the other didnt so i wrote jason was mangled thats all

...

Im completely lost on this

why do you mention that, I already knew, and regardless of that what does that have to do with anything

#17 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8435 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: I believe that you do not usually read the interviews with the writers and publishers of the titles because it has already been explained several times already and was told that he acted 3 years before (you can be sure that I will find the link for you),because after some mistakes and complaining the editors ''rebooted'' his origins.

Of course that it's simple and...logic or everything has to be complicated?? Not because something is not stated or confirmed, does not mean it isn't true, know that in the comics there are certain things that are implicit, not everything has to be said the clear,precisely so that readers think of the possibilities, of course this is not always used and may actually be a mistake,but in Damian case it is implicit the possibility that he was genetically aged,the existence of the clone implied this even more. Pre-New 52 Damian was genetically perfected and grown in an artificial womb and New 52 too,again it was implicit... Look to DOTF initially was implied the Joker knows who Batman is,but wasn't confirmed if he really knows,besides saying things like he knew who Bruce and his allies really is.

@arnoldoaad said:

look the numbers just dont add up, and it is never explain if he was artificially aged or not.

specially cause he WASNT artificially age before the new 52 because there was more than 5 years timeline

thats really too simplistic thinking too,isn't it?

If you read all the titles,would see that has been changing, coordinating editorial this getting better or you did not realize that certain references some stories passed before or during DOTF? If you read Detective comics 16,you would know it's take place while DOTF happened?

The flying batmobile in Talon 5

#18 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21 said:

@arnoldoaad: I believe that you do not usually read the interviews with the writers and publishers of the titles because it has already been explained several times already and was told that he acted 3 years before (you can be sure that I will find the link for you),because after some mistakes and complaining the editors ''rebooted'' his origins.

Of course that it's simple and...logic or everything has to be complicated?? Not because something is not stated or confirmed, does not mean it isn't true, know that in the comics there are certain things that are implicit, not everything has to be said the clear,precisely so that readers think of the possibilities, of course this is not always used and may actually be a mistake,but in Damian case it is implicit the possibility that he was genetically aged,the existence of the clone implied this even more. Pre-New 52 Damian was genetically perfected and grown in an artificial womb and New 52 too,again it was implicit...

I read enough interviews, I also read one by Morrison in which he explicitly said he was NOT going to explain in comics how is that Robin aged or anything

I also remember another Morrison's interview in which he said that Batman Inc took place with continuity before the new 52

because that is good editorial management dont you think?

Look to DOTF initially was implied the Joker knows who Batman is,but wasn't confirmed if he really knows,besides saying things like he knew who Bruce and his allies really is.

2 points, one is that he obviously know he knew who all of them are, otherwise pretty much none of the tie-ins makes any sense

and 2 I think the story did proof that he knows, but that wasnt the angle, the angle was that he doesnt care, for Joker Bruce Wayne doesnt matter, his objective is Batman and he sees them as 2 completely different beings

and if that wasnt enough he saw Batman unveil his identity to Joker in R.I.P., hell he goes to Wayne Mannor to bury Dr Hurt in Batman & Robin Must die.

If you actually put some thought into that, If you actually awknowlede the existence of Morrison's run, The entire argument of Batman not telling the others that Joker was in the Batcave completely fells apart

yes, i know what you will say, you dont need those, the story of Snyder is self-sustain, thats ok, even that could be a good thing, but it is also a bad thing

Like I said, Ignore Morrison's Run, the last 6 years of Batman matter SH*T, Thats what the new 52 did

@arnoldoaad said:

look the numbers just dont add up, and it is never explain if he was artificially aged or not.

specially cause he WASNT artificially age before the new 52 because there was more than 5 years timeline

thats really too simplistic thinking too,isn't it?

If you read all the titles,would see that has been changing, coordinating editorial this getting better or you did not realize that certain references some stories passed before or during DOTF? If you read Detective comics 16,you would know it's take place while DOTF happened?

I do read all the titles, im not seeing your point here

but lets see the chps 0 which to me had been one of the biggest editorial messes in batman

first Batman & Robin, we are shown Damian beng born, and then we cut back and he is a little toddler and Talia has the Bat Cowl, we cut back again to his birthdays, he has 5 birthdays, in which he finally wins against his mother on his 10th birthday, 1 year and half before the present

which means that Damian has at least 12 years at the moment of his demise and batman existed for all those years, and dont say that he is just celebrating his birthday every other week because shut up.

The flying batmobile in Talon 5

thats not the flying Batmovile, is the non-flying batmovile that Bruce used in B&R first arc and Batman Inc #1, which didnt fly

However, lets say you are right, lets say its the same batmovile and it can fly

WHY IS IT NOT USED TO FLY?

pre-new 52 it fly on every single scene it was in, in fact i dont even remember if had wheels on any moment

now it is always on wheels always fighting the trafic and when is not used Batman uses the model Finch designed for his first horrible Batman TDK, so What the hell is the point of having it if it is not used.

and dont point out that scene of B&R 7 cause the car wasnt flying there, it just jump on a ramp

#19 Posted by Mr_Holmes (49 posts) - - Show Bio

I know Morrison said this was the plan from the beginning, but you know I really would have thought those plans would have been aborted. His comics are so optimistic, I just can't believe he's done what he did. This is the guy who wrote this:

Hard to believe it's the same writer, really. Morrison wouldn't really kill a character unless he really thinks the character has been played out, like Jean Grey. Damian is the opposite - so much potential wasted. The story of Robin dying has already been done. I can't really suspend my belief to think Batman could continue after this.

#20 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr_Holmes: yeah, its just so weird, also the solicits of Batman Inc #12 just came out and it doesnt seem like the end of Morrison's run yet much less the end of the book

#21 Posted by ThePRez (276 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a question. The real reason behind Damian's death is because of Morrison leaving DC and it was his creation?

#22 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThePRez said:

I have a question. The real reason behind Damian's death is because of Morrison leaving DC and it was his creation?

first of all Morrison is not really leaving DC, he still has Multiversity coming out and he is working in a Wonder Woman project, supposedly WW Earth One, he is only leaving ongoing books

and apparently he had plans for Damian to die eventually but he doesnt own the character, DC can(and will) revive him eventually

#23 Posted by X9 (753 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing is....they killed the coolest kid of comic books.

Just that.

#24 Posted by timelord (607 posts) - - Show Bio

As someone who dose not read Batman INC Damian's death came out of no where for me and I'm hoping it doesn't stick. If it does I won't be reading anymore Bat Books Damian was one of the best characters IMO.

#25 Posted by TDK_1997 (14474 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think it was a bad idea for him to go but because of that we got that amazing #18 of Batman and Robin.But I don't think he will be gone for long.

#26 Posted by Lvenger (18474 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: Surely you knew this was inevitable right? Morrison wanted to kill Damian straight away but Tomasi, who was the editor of Batman at the time, convinced him to hold off on it. Still for the all the development Tomasi and Morrison have put into Damian and the Bat Family, it would have always ended with Damian's death. That was Morrison's intent for the character and I'd trust no one else to kill off Damian than the guy who created him. Sure it sucks but it makes his tenure as a character and a Robin all the more meaningful IMO.

#27 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@arnoldoaad: Surely you knew this was inevitable right? Morrison wanted to kill Damian straight away but Tomasi, who was the editor of Batman at the time, convinced him to hold off on it. Still for the all the development Tomasi and Morrison have put into Damian and the Bat Family, it would have always ended with Damian's death. That was Morrison's intent for the character and I'd trust no one else to kill off Damian than the guy who created him. Sure it sucks but it makes his tenure as a character and a Robin all the more meaningful IMO.

I think completely the opposite

and for the record the death of Stephanie Brown didnt made her tenure as robin the more meaningful, and i would think the same of Jason's, it made his dead memorable but not his time as robin.

This just comes as unnecessary and as something that wont stick anyways

#28 Posted by Lvenger (18474 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

I think completely the opposite

and for the record the death of Stephanie Brown didnt made her tenure as robin the more meaningful, and i would think the same of Jason's, it made his dead memorable but not his time as robin.

This just comes as unnecessary and as something that wont stick anyways

That's different. Stephanie never made a good Robin. She didn't fit into that role particularly well. Although I'm apathetic to her, most of her fans appreciate the Spoiler and Batgirl runs over her time as Robin. Agreed on the Jason point but Damian had a lot of spunk and attitude to him which made his development from soulless assassin to a caring son trying to live up to his father's legacy matter even more when Morrison killed him. I don't see it as unnecessary at all. If you think about, characters that go on long enough eventually clock up a bad run or go through a horrible status quo change and at least Damian is prevented from that by an honourable death. Would you rather he stuck around and got worse over time through an inopportune writer in the future?

#29 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@arnoldoaad said:

I think completely the opposite

and for the record the death of Stephanie Brown didnt made her tenure as robin the more meaningful, and i would think the same of Jason's, it made his dead memorable but not his time as robin.

This just comes as unnecessary and as something that wont stick anyways

That's different. Stephanie never made a good Robin. She didn't fit into that role particularly well. Although I'm apathetic to her, most of her fans appreciate the Spoiler and Batgirl runs over her time as Robin. Agreed on the Jason point but Damian had a lot of spunk and attitude to him which made his development from soulless assassin to a caring son trying to live up to his father's legacy matter even more when Morrison killed him. I don't see it as unnecessary at all.

Steph was just robin so she could die her run was never meant to be good, it was just really bad planning from the begining for that stunt.

and it is unnesesary cause you will see him around in 1-2 years, and it is still unnesesary cause it tells an story that we already seen with Jason's death

If you think about, characters that go on long enough eventually clock up a bad run or go through a horrible status quo change

well, thats what is happening right now, the new status quo is Damian is dead

and at least Damian is prevented from that by an honourable death. Would you rather he stuck around and got worse over time through an inopportune writer in the future?

thats a really hypothetical idea for an unknown time future

sorry but i would had liked to see other writers like Snyder, Layman and Tomasi to had keep on using the character if not others

the potential lost is way bigger than the potential to blew it up

#30 Edited by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

In glad Damian is dead, he didnt deserve to be Robin, its the best thing to happen in the new 52 comics so far. Damian was more of a psychopathic villain than a hero. We can all celebrate by spitting and dancing on his grave, although I wuld have preferred that Damian was erased from existence rather than be killed, being killed makes him a cheap rip off of Jason. But whats done is done, but i hope hes the "robin" that stays dead, as I believe Jason needs to keep the title of being the Robin that died and comeback.

#31 Posted by spidershamrock (1080 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't wait until Damian comes back, he is my favourite Robin after Dick and the more I read of him the more I love him. He is a tough kid who is incredibly vulnerable inside and just seeks approval.He wants to do good and he is the perfect candidate for Batman after Bruce dies(Dick is Nightwing)

#32 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@batwatch: jasontodd13 has returned, HIDE YOUR DAMIAN WAYNE, AND RHTO POSTS!!!!

#33 Posted by KidSupreme (824 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just annoyed .. I didn't like this Robin but I don't want him dead either, simply cause that means Batman will get another Robin and then it just loses meaning being a Robin. Every Robins gets replaced every few years it just becomes pointless to even bother to follow.

That's my two cents and I'm sticking to it!

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