Is Damian Wayne a Good Robin?

  • 171 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a three part series that will try to answer that simple question by analyzing Damian in terms of the various roles Robin fills both as Batman's most famous partner in fighting crime and as a character in a comic book. This will not be about which Robin is best, whether or not Damian is a strong character, or if the younger Wayne deserves to wear the famous domino mask. This is not a contest, but an evaluation.

To see this blog with more images, Click Here.

Over the years, Robin has come to mean a great deal of things to both Batman and readers. We will look at three of those things today starting with the earliest defined purpose of Robin and moving towards more recent understandings of the role of the Boy Wonder.

1. DOES DAMIAN GIVE BATMAN AN EXCUSE TO TALK?

If you look back at the commentary of the writers who added Robin to the Batman mythos, you will find that the original purpose of the character was charmingly simple. Batman was a lone figure which meant he was silent almost all the time which does not make for the most fascinating of stories. In the early days of comics, the internal monologue was not really yet developed, so the most common way to explain a heroes actions was to use a narrator which made things feel kind awkward and removed. How do you fix this problem? Throw in a trusty sidekick who constantly asks questions of the protagonist! Thus was born Robin.

Interestingly enough, Robins seem to be getting gradually less extroverted with time. Dick always had something to say whether it was asking Bruce questions or making snappy remarks to the bad guy. When Jason came along, he was perhaps a little less chatty, but he still had to smart off on a regular basis, and he also frequently asked Batman about the case. Things kind of changed with the more introverted Tim who was much less pithy and usually only talked business while in the field. Now we get to Damian who might actually be a little more extroverted than Tim, but he does not talk much because he seems to be mimicking Bruce's stoic and broody way. I suspect that if Damian were not so concerned about how others perceive him, he would probably be rather talkative, but at the moment, he only seems to open his mouth to make a snarky remark.

Still, Damian serves that most basic role of giving Batman a conversational partner even though he does not provide as many opportunities for dialogue as most of the previous Robins.

Talk-O-Meter Robin Ranking:

2. DOES DAMIAN MAKE BATMAN LOOK BETTER BY COMPARISON?

I was having a conversation with a big Dick Grayson fan the other day, and she told me how she was reading through The Batman Chronicles and found it funny how often Dick Grayson tripped in the midst of adventures and needed to be rescued by Batman. Dick, the ultimate acrobat, trips over his own feet on a regular basis. Take that logic!

That is something that probably wouldn't occur in comics these days, but have we really come that far? There is a reason Robin is often called the Boy Hostage. In the process of three seconds, I can think of three different times various Boy Blunders have had to rely on Batman to save them when they got in over their head. What better way to show how awesome your headlining character is than compare him to a lanky, immature, untrained amateur?

Whereas all the previous Robins have fit this role pretty well, Damian flies in the face of it; he is no Boy Hostage. In the past several years as he has held the role of Robin, I can think of no time he has been held at a villains mercy. There very well may be such an example that escapes my recollection, but still, Damian is not an easy target. He regularly takes out groups of enemies that would overwhelm the vast majority of martial arts masters. His detective skills could use a little help, but he has actually progressed quickly in that regard. He does need some development in terms of emotional maturity, but Batman is hardly the best example in that field.

Victim-O-Meter Robin Ranking: Bad Robin!

3. DOES DAMIAN SERVE AS A RELATABLE CHARACTER FOR KIDS?

Though Robin was originally created as a plot device for conversation, the creative community quickly observed a second even more useful byproduct of Robin's creation. Readers related to him. Sure, Batman is awesome, and we would all love to be the Caped Crusader, but even as a young kid, some part of you knows that you could never be that awesome, but hey, there is this kid about your age who can keep pace with the Dark Knight. No, he can't punch three bad guys out at one time, but can punch out one. You could probably do that too, right?

It's a simplistic concept, and it is difficult to know just how much Robin actually helps young readers relate to comics, but it is clear that DC believed in the formula because every DC hero, except for Superman, soon had a sidekick tagging along at his or her heels. Where do you think the Teen Titans originated anyway?

In this respect, Damian is probably the least relatable of all the Robins. Now, none of the Robins really had a normal life; unless your parents were taken away by killers, you probably did not truly feel the Robins' pain, but all the other Robins were much more fallible in their abilities than Damian. Furthermore, being raised on the streets or at a circus might not be the most common upbringing, but it is still more easily imagined than being raised to be a modern day Alexander by your crazy mother, her army of bat-ninjas, and the League of Assassins.

On the flip side, I find it very ironic that Damian haters always talk about how the kid has such a lousy attitude. If Damian is supposed to be a character that modern youth find relatable, then what better avatar for their presence in a comic than a snide, cocky, prideful, snooty, snarky, big-mouthed punk. Think about it! Isn't Damian basically just a more intelligent version of the kids who call you names on X-Box Live?

Relate-O-Meter Robin Ranking: Okay Robin

CONCLUSION

Damian does not fair so well in the first round, but there are still many more functions of Robin which have not been considered. At some point, we will revisit this topic.

#1 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you should do away with the bullet point list and decide whether or not you, personally, think he brings anything to the table. As for me? Yeah, I think he's cool. He's a different Robin from most in that he's not plucky and full of charm (wit, certainly, but not charm), he's gone much farther than other Robins much faster (as far as pushing the envelope goes) and I personally believe he perfectly demonstrates what Bruce Wayne would have been at eleven years old.

#2 Posted by Lvenger (18256 posts) - - Show Bio

He's a better Robin in other ways. Snarky, bad tempered, arrogant, cocky. Quite an excellent compliment and change to the past Robins. I don't want all the Robins to have the same role as you've given. Damian throws that tradition to the wind excellently. True he doesn't beat Dick or Tim but I'd take Damian over Stephanie or Jason any day.

#3 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

...hmmm

by far this is your weakest article at the moment.

for one, all the pictures on the article are from pre-new52 comics which was Damian as the Robin of Dick, not Bruce, which marks the obvious problem the entire article, they had 2 completely different relations

the one with Dick was more symbiotic cause it was practically a nice batman and a mean robin, the contrast makes it work. when what we get with Bruce is a more father-son relationship, you cant qualify #1 without specifying which batman is entering in conversation, which btw you didnt qualify at all

#2 has exactly the same problem and i will add that the "by comparison" how does that make it a good trait for a robin?

as for #3 I completely disagree, not because your point isnt good, but because it depends of the writer

look for example Batman #713, the final Batman before the reboot, and was written by Fabian Nicieza, who think writes one of the best Damian characterizations overall, and the entire story is told from the perspective of Damian as him telling the story to other kids and I point this out cause overall Damian is the most child like of all robins because he is a child

he is not meant to be relatable in the sense that kids will understand the character is not very complex to understand, he is a kid who is a ninja and is supersmart, but is the first part, that he is a kid that really makes it relatable, because is an escapist fantasy for kids, when he is not overly dark

compare that with Dick, who is a kid who work in a circus, Jason who is a kid from the street, and Tim who is practically a very normal kid who is a genius

maybe Tim is the most relatable but all are escapist fantasies and Damian is no more unrelatable than Dick or Jason, you are basically qualifying his attitude in this point and not how kids will see this attitude which more likely they will relate cause they are kids

and finally this

Furthermore, being raised on the streets or at a circus might not be the most common upbringing, but it is still more easily imagined than being raised to be a modern day Alexander by your crazy mother, her army of bat-ninjas, and the League of Assassins.

you are just focusing on one aspect of him, how about the fact that his parents are separated, and he wants them to stay together, the idea of trying to relate to a father that you barely know or had heard about or having problems with your own mother because of such separation, its different from being an orphan but you can see that children whose fathers are separated or divorce will relate to that conflict.

#4 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice post, as always from you

#5 Posted by havoc1201 (490 posts) - - Show Bio

when they first introduced Damian i didnt like him but he has really grown on me i love how he is a hard a$$ but then you see the side that is looking for his fathers approval and he really does want to make his father proud, I feel he is a great Robin and i cant wait to see what the future holds let hope its not the same future Morrison showed us lol

#6 Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

I think you should do away with the bullet point list and decide whether or not you, personally, think he brings anything to the table. As for me? Yeah, I think he's cool. He's a different Robin from most in that he's not plucky and full of charm (wit, certainly, but not charm), he's gone much farther than other Robins much faster (as far as pushing the envelope goes) and I personally believe he perfectly demonstrates what Bruce Wayne would have been at eleven years old.

I think Bruce would have been raised better, but I love Damian as well.

Like I said in the beginning, this is about how well Damian fits the established role of Robin. Anybody can say whether or not they like a character. Comparing it to the historical role of Robin is something that I have never seen done.

@Lvenger said:

He's a better Robin in other ways. Snarky, bad tempered, arrogant, cocky. Quite an excellent compliment and change to the past Robins. I don't want all the Robins to have the same role as you've given. Damian throws that tradition to the wind excellently. True he doesn't beat Dick or Tim but I'd take Damian over Stephanie or Jason any day.

True. He definitely has his advantages, but again, that is not the purpose of this article. As much as I love pre-52 Tim, there is nobody I would rather see in the role of Robin right now than Damian.

@arnoldoaad:

The pictures and the commentary represent Damian's relation to Batman. I specifically avoided (unless I tripped up somewhere) speaking of Bruce in particular. This is about how this version of thy Boy Wonder fits with the Dark Knight...not so much how Damian fits with Bruce. None of the points examined are specific to Bruce or Dick.

Regarding point 2, all Robins have made Batman look better in comparison. That is part of the role of Robin. It makes him a good plot device. Is that how Robin should be used? Maybe, maybe not. Inarguably, it is how he has been used in the past.

I maintain that either being a circus performer with an otherwise normal family, being a street kid, or being a genius neglected kid is easier to imagine than Damian's life. However, you do bring up interesting ideas about the separated parents and the kid caught in the middle. I had not considered that.

@FatihBATMAN said:

Nice post, as always from you

Yay! One person liked my post. Thanks, Faith.

@havoc1201 said:

when they first introduced Damian i didnt like him but he has really grown on me i love how he is a hard a$$ but then you see the side that is looking for his fathers approval and he really does want to make his father proud, I feel he is a great Robin and i cant wait to see what the future holds let hope its not the same future Morrison showed us lol

Agreed on all points except that I have always liked Damian. I think he is a pretty cool character.

#7 Posted by comicace3 (3469 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch: Good post I believe Damian is one of the funniest robins. You should make a thread or post about the bat-family robins relationships as step brothers and relationship with batman. It'd be pretty cool...

#8 Posted by chocobojam (288 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Damian bratty attitude. Its like how should a teenager with assassin skills and a son of a billionaire should act in his age.

#9 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch said:

@arnoldoaad:

The pictures and the commentary represent Damian's relation to Batman. I specifically avoided (unless I tripped up somewhere) speaking of Bruce in particular. This is about how this version of thy Boy Wonder fits with the Dark Knight...not so much how Damian fits with Bruce. None of the points examined are specific to Bruce or Dick.

Regarding point 2, all Robins have made Batman look better in comparison. That is part of the role of Robin. It makes him a good plot device. Is that how Robin should be used? Maybe, maybe not. Inarguably, it is how he has been used in the past.

I maintain that either being a circus performer with an otherwise normal family, being a street kid, or being a genius neglected kid is easier to imagine than Damian's life. However, you do bring up interesting ideas about the separated parents and the kid caught in the middle. I had not considered that.

yeah but all the pics are related to the same batman and "None of the points examined are specific to Bruce or Dick." thats my point exactly, you cant do that because both batmen are completely different you cant say that he is an average guy to talk to when points of conversation are diferent

#2 I still dont understand it

I could understand something like "How Robin makes Batman a better Batman" thats pretty much the argument for Tim Drake, but not how he makes him better by comparison, how is that a positive trait for being robin?

and you still need to separate how would that work with both Batmen

#3 I just think that all of them are equally imaginable, the relatability just comes from how is the character portrayed and that depends of the writer

just look at how he is written in Brian Miller's Batgirl or in Nicieza's Red Robin, he was raised to be an assassin but he is still a kid

some writers just write him as a mini-bruce

#10 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian is actually the worst Robin of them all. Hes a murderer who likes killing, hes more villain than hero.

#11 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

Damian is actually the worst Robin of them all. Hes a murderer who likes killing, hes more villain than hero.

Which why he's such a fun read!

#12 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing that wasn't considered here is the motives behind him being Robin. For example, unlike every other character that's worn the R (Perhaps on this or any earth) Damian gave up everything to be Robin. As has been touched upon a few times, he literally gave up the world to be Robin. So yes, he does mess up. He has murdered. Perhaps his future does end with him in a rather "lonely place of dying", but you can't deny that he's committed and that he tries his best. I'd still say he's better than Stephanie, and even Jason for that matter.

#13 Edited by MaxSchreck (97 posts) - - Show Bio

---Whereas all the previous Robins have fit this role pretty well, Damian flies in the face of it; he is no Boy Hostage. In the past several years as he has held the role of Robin, I can think of no time he has been held at a villains mercy. There very well may be such an example that escapes my recollection, but still, Damian is not an easy target. He regularly takes out groups of enemies that would overwhelm the vast majority of martial arts masters. His detective skills could use a little help, but he has actually progressed quickly in that regard. He does need some development in terms of emotional maturity, but Batman is hardly the best example in that field.

Oh , that has been at a villains mercy quite a few times and Dick or someone else quite often had to get him out of dangerous situations , mostly because he seems to care very little whether he will get wounded in combat or not ,which is understandable , since his mother often let him fight hordes of her ninja until Damian was on the brink of death .

In Battle for the Cowl Damian has to be saved from Killer Croc and Poison Ivy.

In Batman and Robin , he was captured by Professor Pyg ... true , he managed to untie himself , but Pyg would have overhelmed him with his Dollotrons if Dick would not have come to help him . In that scene Damian and Dick sort of become the dynmic duo for the first time. Damian begins to respect Dick.

Later he is captured by the Joker . He releases him ,though , so he can come to Dicks help and save him from Doctor Hurt . Damian fails and Dick and he have to be saved by the original Batman.

At the end of the first arc of Peter J. Tomasis run on Batman and Robin Damian is captured and tortured by NoBody.

The last issue of Batman and Robin began with Damian being captured by the Clown Prince of Crime.

And he definately fulfilled the role of showing how badass the main hero is in Red Robin (even though he was not held hostage in it).Personally I thought it went a bit too far in that series ... Its not a good thing if you make a member of the batfamily look incompetent .

#14 Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3 said:

@BatWatch: Good post I believe Damian is one of the funniest robins. You should make a thread or post about the bat-family robins relationships as step brothers and relationship with batman. It'd be pretty cool...

I'm with you there. He's definitely the funniest Robin. I have not considered focusing on the relationship between the Bat Brothers. I'll file that away for consideration.

@chocobojam said:

I like Damian bratty attitude. Its like how should a teenager with assassin skills and a son of a billionaire should act in his age.

Well, he's not even a teenager yet. I wonder how the character will develop. He is so much fun because he combines childish ignorance and pride with a lethal skill set, but the cockiness will be less charming when he is older and less oblivious to social protocols.

@arnoldoaad:

1. But it was not about the nature of the conservations but the amount of the conversations.

2. (shrugs) Makes sense to me.

3. There is definitely some serious variation in the way Damian is portrayed, but I don't know that it is any worse than the variation of most characters. The different takes on characters is one of the most unique things about the comic medium.

@JasonTodd13 said:

Damian is actually the worst Robin of them all. Hes a murderer who likes killing, hes more villain than hero.

You pretty much say the same thing on every Damian thread.@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

One thing that wasn't considered here is the motives behind him being Robin. For example, unlike every other character that's worn the R (Perhaps on this or any earth) Damian gave up everything to be Robin. As has been touched upon a few times, he literally gave up the world to be Robin. So yes, he does mess up. He has murdered. Perhaps his future does end with him in a rather "lonely place of dying", but you can't deny that he's committed and that he tries his best. I'd still say he's better than Stephanie, and even Jason for that matter.

Oh, there are a lot of positive points for Robin, no doubt about it. I love the brat, but this is just comparing him to the roles previously established for Robin. As others have pointed out, who says Damian even has to follow the template of previous Boy Wonders? Still, I have an eight point list of previous roles of Robin, and this just hits the first three. By the time I finish the list, I'll probably think of some more ways to compare him.

Regarding your take on Damian, I agree that he tries really hard, but it seems to me that he is trying more to gain the approval of his father figures rather than trying really hard to be a hero. I think that is a distinction Damian will eventually have to confront.

@MaxSchreck:

Good points all around though the Poison Ivy/Killer Croc one is the only one that really fits that template in my mind because in all the other scenarios, he managed to free himself. I guess the Joker one also qualifies to some degree, but regardless, he is almost never a character who just waits for Batman to save him which is great but, for better or worse, does not fit the typical role as well as previous incarnations.

#15 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch said:

@arnoldoaad:

1. But it was not about the nature of the conservations but the amount of the conversations.

2. (shrugs) Makes sense to me.

3. There is definitely some serious variation in the way Damian is portrayed, but I don't know that it is any worse than the variation of most characters. The different takes on characters is one of the most unique things about the comic medium.

1- but he obviously going to have more conversations with Dick than with Bruce, not only cause with Dick is more like a partner relationship and Bruce is parent relationship but because Bruce barely talks anyways, they are too similar

2- I dont mean it doesnt make sense, i just dont think is a positive for robin, it is positive for batman if robin sucks so bad that it makes him look good but it doesnt makes robin good

3- Im not sure what to say to that

#16 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: No, he just plain sucks.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Trying his best? He has a bloodlust, and heroes arent suppose to be murderers, he hasnt even attempted to not kill at all, and not tried to follow Batmans rules.

#17 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@TheCrowbar: No, he just plain sucks.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Trying his best? He has a bloodlust, and heroes arent suppose to be murderers, he hasnt even attempted to not kill at all, and not tried to follow Batmans rules.

he only kills when he feels he has to he doesnt have a "bloodlust" If did then every villian he fights would be dead. Damian is trying his hardest to please his father, but its kinda hard to train yourself to not do something that you've have been trained to do since birth. Damian has his moments but I feel that deep down Damian is just a kid who wants to make his father proud of him which is something i can relate to.

#18 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Trying his best? He has a bloodlust, and heroes arent suppose to be murderers, he hasnt even attempted to not kill at all, and not tried to follow Batmans rules.

Yep, because as the person above me pointed out he doesn't kill every villain he comes across. He's not constantly fighting the urge to kill in every panel he appears in either, so he certainly doesn't have a blood lust. Numerous heroes have killed other people. Hell, Superman himself executed General Zod at one point. And he has been trying to follow Bruce's rules, otherwise as I pointed out already he'd be killing every criminal he comes across. Unlike the others he was conditioned from birth to be a killing machine, and in a little over a year he's tried to overcome that and has been successful for the most part. So yes, i'd say that considering that he's going against his upbringing and what he's been taught his entire life, and gave up the entire world to be Robin that he's trying his best.

*shrug* I tend to compare them more on how their differences cause each to be a different type of Robin myself. And it's personal opinion, but your first two points aren't criteria i'd use to judge a Robin.

I can only agree on that in terms of how Damian sees Bruce. With Dick, he never tried to gain his approval, in fact didn't even like Dick at first, unlike his father who he of course instantly craved attention from. Though he doesn't view Dick as a father to begin with.

#19 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

I enjoy him as robin.

#20 Posted by The Stegman (23017 posts) - - Show Bio
@havoc1201 said:

when they first introduced Damian i didnt like him but he has really grown on me i love how he is a hard a$$ but then you see the side that is looking for his fathers approval and he really does want to make his father proud, I feel he is a great Robin and i cant wait to see what the future holds let hope its not the same future Morrison showed us lol

This absolutely. I also love the relationship he formed with Dick as well, and how he still has at least, some type of respect for him. Damian's a great character imo, and my second favorite Robin behind Tim.
Online
#21 Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad:

1. Still, a more chatty character makes for more chatting.

2. I don't disagree. This is about how well Damian fits the mold not whether he should fit the mold.

@Nathaniel_Christopher:

I agree that Damian did not like Dick at first, but I think it is pretty crazy to deny he had a father type relationship with Dick very quickly...certainly by the end of the series.

@JamesKM716 said:

I enjoy him as robin.

As do I.

#22 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch said:

@arnoldoaad:

1. Still, a more chatty character makes for more chatting.

2. I don't disagree. This is about how well Damian fits the mold not whether he should fit the mold.

1- that would also depend of the writer and not the character, he is very chatty with Morrison or Nicieza, and besides it doesnt take into account the quality of the conversation, look for example at Jason Todd who pre-crisis was really chatty and annoying and post-crisis was almost a proto-damian

and the funny thing is that i understand your point, but you didnt qualify him Talk-O-Meter Robin Ranking: nothing written

however i do understand that he is not that very talky, but he is talky enough, and i fail to see how talking to much or too little does anything, is the quality of the conversation that should matter and not only with Batman but everyone else

2- what exactly is the mold then?

are you talking about how he is as a robin compared with the other robins or how he is as an stereotypical sidekick

cause if is as a robin, is it compared to all of them including steph, only the 4 in new52 continuity or with all robins ever including the robot robin of DC 1.000.000

#23 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19: He likes killing because that is what hes been taught to do by the league of assassins, look at the comic Batman and Son, he turned up smug at Batman's side after his attempt to kill Tim, beating the crap out of him. And he shows no remorse for killing one of the bad guys in that story, in fact he does not show any remorse at all when he kills people. Damian will never make his father proud as long as he continues what he does, hes the ultimate disgrace to the Robin legacy and I wished he just dies, he isnt a good character, a very annoying attitude like a brat, and a very unlikable personality, hes a villain, not a hero. If you can relate to a murderer and villain then theres something wrong with you. Damian clearly likes killing and it is clear he wont stop.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Superman punished himself, he showed remorse for his actions, which Damian has not done, Superman remains a hero because he knows whats right and wrong whereas Damian does nothing, no remorse, no nothing, hes the sort who wont apologise for his actions. Hes not doing enough, hes a waste of space in the Dc Universe, uninteresting and a character that needs to die or get retconned from existence.

#24 Posted by entropy_aegis (14208 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13:If you dont like the character then stop reading him,plenty of us do appreciate him simple as that,and its ironic coming from a guy with your username and avatar.

And Batman & Son? the character has 360 more appearances after that,try to atleast educate yourself first.You wanna know who was a real waste of space? Pre-Flashpoint Jason Todd,the guy with multiple personality,costume and backstory disorder.

#25 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Its unavoidable not to read about that little jerk, i am a big batman fan so i try and read all the batman comics the library gets in, and all i see is Damian, there are good stories to read, but they had to put Damian in them. And whats ironic about Jason?, hes nothing like Damian.

No Jason wasnt a waste of space, it was awesome that he returned from the dead, and became the Red Hood to kill the sum that deserve to die. He hasnt got multiple personality, read batman and robin, its proven hes mentally sane when hes locked in arkham. And by the way the other Robins tend to change costumes a lot like Dick Grayson. and theres no background disorder.

#26 Posted by entropy_aegis (14208 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@entropy_aegis: Its unavoidable not to read about that little jerk, i am a big batman fan so i try and read all the batman comics the library gets in, and all i see is Damian, there are good stories to read, but they had to put Damian in them. And whats ironic about Jason?, hes nothing like Damian.

No Jason wasnt a waste of space, it was awesome that he returned from the dead, and became the Red Hood to kill the sum that deserve to die. He hasnt got multiple personality, read batman and robin, its proven hes mentally sane when hes locked in arkham. And by the way the other Robins tend to change costumes a lot like Dick Grayson. and theres no background disorder.

Jason Todd couldn't stick to one personality,he changed his costumes more oftenly then people change their underwear,one second he's wannabe Nightwing,next he's wannabe Batman or he's wannabe Robin etc,etc.I dont even wanna get started on Countdown to Final Crisis THE WORST EVENT EVER and from I understand Jason was one of the reasons why it happened.

His only trait was that he was badass(Winick) so badass that if Winick had his way Jason would have replaced everyone in Gotham,under Winicks pen he was a mary sue,under others he was a waste of space.

#27 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick Grayson has changed into many different costumes more than Jason, the Robin outfit, the many different Nightwing Costumes, the batman costume from Knightsend, and the batman outfit in batman and Robin. Jason had the same personality, it looks like he changed personalities because hes filled with Rage, Rage can make people look like they have different personalities, he wasnt a wannabe Robin, he was Robin before the Joker killed him, he wore the altered Robin costume in the Teen Titans because he wanted to show he was better than Tim as Robin. The WORSE EVENT ever was when they created Damian actually.

Jason is a living example of what happens when a hero fails to save someone close to them, thats awesome, and wanting to punish Batman for letting the Joker live, thats awesome too.

#28 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Superman punished himself, he showed remorse for his actions, which Damian has not done, Superman remains a hero because he knows whats right and wrong whereas Damian does nothing, no remorse, no nothing, hes the sort who wont apologise for his actions. Hes not doing enough, hes a waste of space in the Dc Universe, uninteresting and a character that needs to die or get retconned from existence.

Wrong. He showed remorse when he killed Nobody, killing your entire argument.

Not doing enough? Personal opinion, which you shouldn't use to argue against someone else's opinion of a character.

#29 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: he didnt show remorse when killed the gost guy in batman and son, even bragged about it to Tim, showing the decapitated head to him, he was smug after beating Tim up. Its not a personal opinion its a fact, he hasnt done anything to even make him an actual hero, all i have seen is him being a villain, if he wasnt batmans son, he be sent to arkham or blackgate where he belongs.

#30 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: he didnt show remorse when killed the gost guy in batman and son, even bragged about it to Tim, showing the decapitated head to him, he was smug after beating Tim up. Its not a personal opinion its a fact, he hasnt done anything to even make him an actual hero, all i have seen is him being a villain, if he wasnt batmans son, he be sent to arkham or blackgate where he belongs.

No he didn't, but he shows remorse now. It's called character development. Acting one way at an earlier point in your life doesn't define you for the rest of your life.

If you've only seen him be a villain i'd suggest you read more, as it sounds like you've only seen him kill people, when he's killed very very few. So for you to think that you must have only read a few issues that are far apart.

Either way its your personal opinion, which has no effect on me.

#31 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: it doesnt change the fact that he still murders people, in damians case yes it does define him.

perhaps he only likes killing when he feels like it, some murderers are picky on who they want to kill and when.

#32 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: it doesnt change the fact that he still murders people, in damians case yes it does define him.

perhaps he only likes killing when he feels like it, some murderers are picky on who they want to kill and when.

Accept he doesn't still murder people, and he hasn't actually killed villains as often as you seem to think.

In Damian's case it defines him? Personal opinion.

"perhaps he only likes killing when he feels like it, some murderers are picky on who they want to kill and when." Personal opinion.

#33 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: hes a murderer and enjoys it, it defines him by fact not opinion. And all of this doesnt change the fact he is a CRAPPY character, the worst in the DC Universe.

#34 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: hes a murderer and enjoys it, it defines him by fact not opinion. And all of this doesnt change the fact he is a CRAPPY character, the worst in the DC Universe.

Personal opinion.

#35 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

No FACT, name any good stories hes been in, go on!

#36 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

No FACT, name any good stories hes been in, go on!

What is or isn't a good story is a subject that itself depends on personal opinion.

And personally i'd say the character was well written throughout Dick's time as Batman, specifically in Batman and Robin.

#37 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: no good stories then. I read one of the Batman and Robin comics, and Damian was horrible he couldnt save scarlett, what a douche, he thinks hes better than everyone and yet he fails to save one girl, PATHETIC!

#38 Posted by SmashBrawler (5491 posts) - - Show Bio

He's a fantastic Robin.

#39 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: no good stories then. I read one of the Batman and Robin comics, and Damian was horrible he couldnt save scarlett, what a douche, he thinks hes better than everyone and yet he fails to save one girl, PATHETIC!

And that's your personal opinion.

#40 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: WRONG, fact, if he cant save one girl, how can even think of even trying being a hero, even though hes a murderer.

#41 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: WRONG, fact, if he cant save one girl, how can even think of even trying being a hero, even though hes a murderer.

Which is your personal opinion of the story, the character, and the concept of a hero.

I fail to see why you're trying to change my opinion.

#42 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Wrong again, other people know hes a bad character you know, you seem to think im the only person who hates Damian. I fail to see why youre trying to change my opinion. And im so fascinated on what your opinion on this terrible character is.

#43 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Wrong again, other people know hes a bad character you know, you seem to think im the only person who hates Damian. I fail to see why youre trying to change my opinion. And im so fascinated on what your opinion on this terrible character is.

I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm simply stating, as you just did, that it is an opinion and has nothing to do with mine, and therefore think you should stop trying to change mine, especially seeing as you're the one who responded to a comment i'd made about the character.

I already gave my opinion on the character for the most part. It was the first post you responded to.

I don't think you're the only person who hates Damian. (Not sure where you got that from.) I simply don't think it matters that you or anyone else hates him in terms of what I said, as I was answering a question someone had asked in terms of whether or not I personally thought Damian was a good Robin. That has nothing to do with your opinion or anyone elses.

#44 Posted by entropy_aegis (14208 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

No FACT, name any good stories hes been in, go on!

You mean Grant Morrison's entire tenure as Batman? his team up issues with Supergirl and Steph,the first arc of Tomasi's Batman & Robin,these have been critically recognized everywhere,now you start naming good stories for Todd.The only 2 that come to mind are Cult and Under the Hood.

You cannot argue with any objectivity whatsoever,you just hate Damian cause he's a much better character than your favorite one.

#45 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

Im not trying to change your opinion, im just trying to find out why you like a murderous psychopath villain as Robin. it confuses me why you would a person whos disgracing the Robin legacy, even Carrie Kelly and Stephanie Brown were better Robins (Damian is no where near, Dick's, Jason's and Tim's reputations as Robin).

#46 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

Im not trying to change your opinion, im just trying to find out why you like a murderous psychopath villain as Robin. it confuses me why you would a person whos disgracing the Robin legacy, even Carrie Kelly and Stephanie Brown were better Robins (Damian is no where near, Dick's, Jason's and Tim's reputations as Robin).

I already gave my answer to the question and have nothing more to say on it, as you haven't raised any interesting points of discussion about it or the character. If you don't think he's a good character than that's again your opinion and has nothing to do with me. If what I said about the character originally isn't enough for you then that's again your problem and has nothing to do with me. If you don't like the character, i'm not sure why you don't just leave it at that.

The short answer is that I don't agree with anything you just said, except part of the last statement, so therefore i'm able to like the character.

#47 Posted by entropy_aegis (14208 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: WRONG, fact, if he cant save one girl, how can even think of even trying being a hero, even though hes a murderer.

Lamest excuse I've ever come cross,Batman failed to save a girl in the Venom storyline,he's clearly a terrible hero.And you talk about murder,why dont you go and read about the back ground,training etc of real life terrorists,guerrilla fighters etc and then come back.

Funnily enough the same terrorists and killers trained Jason Todd and resurrected him,hypocrisy and double standards both from you and the characters.

#48 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: that story with steph and supergirl was terrible because damian was in it. no i hate damian because hes a murdering psychopath villain whos disgracing the Robin legacy. You like damian more because you cant accept the fact Jason is far better.

Good Jason Todd Stories:

  • Batman: Under the Hood
  • Red Hood: The Lost Days
  • Teen Titans: Life and Death (The battle with Tim at the Teen Titan Tower)
  • Batman: Battle for the Cowl
  • Batman: A Death in the Family
  • Countdown
#49 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: my question is different from the topic question, and you cant answer the question of liking a psycho killer? I give up man, you cant answer a simple question, and i guess i wont know why you like a disgrace to the Robin legacy.

@entropy_aegis: The difference there is Batman wasnt strong enough, with Damian, he was trained by assassins, he should have been able to save scarlett, very pathetic. Jason is not a murderer, hes a killer who kills scum, big difference and he does it to punish batman, therefore far better than damian who had psychopathic bloodlust.

#50 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1555 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: my question is different from the topic question, and you cant answer the question of liking a psycho killer? I give up man, you cant answer a simple question, and i guess i wont know why you like a disgrace to the Robin legacy.

I already answered the question, but no you're right you won't ever understand the answer, because you don't see the character in the same way I do.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.