Batman Incorporated #8 Discussion

#1 Posted by TDK_1997 (15060 posts) - - Show Bio

We saw the mind-blowing 8th issue of Grant Morrison's grand plan for Batman and the last page was a heart attack for me and a lot of Damian Wayne fans.

So what do you think?Is he dead?Will Bruce find a way to save him?

Also you can just leave your opinion for the issue here.

#2 Posted by StMichalofWilson (4097 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn. Poor Bats. :'(

#3 Edited by Avenger85 (2017 posts) - - Show Bio

Now what happens next is that Bruce just mourns for the next few issues of Batman & Robin, then gets a new Robin and goes back to his old crime fighting ways.

lol Bat-Gandhi.

Bullshit non-kill codes.

#4 Posted by MaxSchreck (123 posts) - - Show Bio

One minute of silence for Damian please .... I`ll miss him a lot T_T

#5 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope Bruce breaks the no kill code, time to put that Frank Castle Degree to work!

#6 Posted by RustyRoy (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm very pissed right now, he was one of my most favorite comic book heroes. I really hope that Batman kills Talia an that pathetic Heretic, its time he crossed the line.

#7 Posted by noj (1089 posts) - - Show Bio

What an awesome issue! I will be pissed if Damian doesnt come back by the end though and BEYOND pissed if Harper Row becomes the new Robin. Morrisons Batman and Robin is what got me into comics.

#8 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio
@noj what's wrong with Harper?
Moderator
#9 Posted by noj (1089 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: I dont have any problems with her character I just wouldnt want her to be Robin though if anything I would want her to be the new Harold or Spoiler. But really I would be pissed if any character other than Damian became Robin at this point.

#10 Posted by TDK_1997 (15060 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj: I think that actually this was just part of Morrison's plan and he will somehow get Damian back in the end.Even if he doesn't get him back it was still good that Morrison did his death and it was done in a good,heroic way.

#11 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

I wanna see this now B Time for Batman to man up, and go back to his real roots for those who don't know. He needs to take notes from the guy on the bottom right.

#12 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

for the peeps demanding that Batman start breaking his no killing rule, than im sorry guys than you dont understand who he is. it is integrated into his character that he shouldn't kill, no matter the circumstances. He wouldnt be who he is if he killled, even if it is just one person. That would allow him to make excuses and do it again, he isnt Punisher, he is Batman and if yal really cared about that you would see that Batman would be entirely compromised as a character. He wouldnt be who he is anymore and you would lose most of his fans just so he could kill "one person".

#13 Posted by charlieboy (7095 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't ever want to see Batman become like the Punisher. I don't know why people think that would be a good thing.

#14 Posted by EdBlank (573 posts) - - Show Bio

The same people play violent video games and watch torture porn "horror". Not that the games or the movies make you a bad person, but the same people who are literally angry that Batman isn't killing people are probably surrounded by images of death. I bet they watch gore vids online, too. To some, the superhero is pase. They prefer a psycho killer with a really good excuse to go on a spree. That ain't a hero, people.

#15 Posted by supermanfan1234 (206 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe h'ell return in issue 12

#16 Posted by noj (1089 posts) - - Show Bio

People get it out of your heads BATMAN ISNT THE PUNISHER! In fact Batman is a much better character than the Punisher because he doesnt kill. Even beyond what the refusal to not kill does for his character it opens the door to way more stories. I'm sure youve heard it said that a hero is only as good as his villains well the proof is in the pudding. Batman is one of the most popular fictional characters of all time. He pretty much has had comics coming out nonstop since his debut. This is largely due to how great his villains are and how they challenge him and open the door to even more stories. Then we look at Punisher who has virtually no rouge gallery other than expendable mobsters and murderers. He has struggled to maintain an ongoing for years with his last volume only going up to 16 issues even though it was critically acclaimed.

You guys also realize that even if Batman did start killing he would never be allowed to kill his main villains only leaving him to kill low thugs and C list villains. How would that make him a better character?

#17 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2430 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should absolutely no break his no kill rule. If you want killing by a super hero go read Punisher or a Wolverine book. Theres a reason Batman does not kill.

Online
#18 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is a vigilante ,his 10 yr old son has been killed , I 'd don't care what anyone says ,it's time to get vigilant, by all means neccessary.

#19 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

#20 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

No but it's time to get tougher! Batman would put down anybody and is prepared to do so at a moments notice, if it had to be done. We are talking about his kid here.

#21 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Give me a break, you just want a kill scene. Batman is not that pathetic excuse of a comic book hero called the Punisher. Plus you are talking about Revenge. Revenge and Justice are not the same thing.

#22 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

No but it's time to get tougher! Batman would put down anybody and is prepared to do so at a moments notice, if it had to be done. We are talking about his kid here.

i know, but it would also show how he would never be compromised even if he is son is dead. Im expecting Batman to be more brutal, but I would never want him to cross that line. I would even have a problem if he intented to kill someone but it turns out that person lived. It would be the wrong thing to do if he started killing because his son died, countless fathers have lost their sons in the pages of comic books, should all of them start killing because their son died? Batman is who he is because of his unwavering principles and values. ya Damian broke those rules, but he grew up in that kind of life and honestly, in my book if he would have lived he shouldnt have been Robin anymore. It is holding your values in the face of true despair that makes you a hero

#23 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: Give me a break, you just want a kill scene. Batman is not that pathetic excuse of a comic book hero called the Punisher. Plus you are talking about Revenge. Revenge and Justice are not the same thing.

What would you prefer to happen,let him sit back and do nothing please! Do you know that Batman is prepared to take down just about any hero, for the duration if he had too, what do you call that? Bat's doesn't mess around, and he needs to address the Damian issue asap! I can also tell you know very little of the Punisher, that guy doesnt play, and believes in his own form of justice.The punisher isn't the issue here though.

#24 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

No but it's time to get tougher! Batman would put down anybody and is prepared to do so at a moments notice, if it had to be done. We are talking about his kid here.

i know, but it would also show how he would never be compromised even if he is son is dead. Im expecting Batman to be more brutal, but I would never want him to cross that line. I would even have a problem if he intented to kill someone but it turns out that person lived. It would be the wrong thing to do if he started killing because his son died, countless fathers have lost their sons in the pages of comic books, should all of them start killing because their son died? Batman is who he is because of his unwavering principles and values. ya Damian broke those rules, but he grew up in that kind of life and honestly, in my book if he would have lived he shouldnt have been Robin anymore. It is holding your values in the face of true despair that makes you a hero

I disagree.Damian came a long way and proved himself deserving of the mantle of Robin, which happened to be passed by a former and original Robin. This is something no other Robin in dc history can boast of, none. Bruce excepted this ! You shoud be angry that he let a little kid get involved in his secret life, and as a result eventually dying which I'm angry over. Damian was a great character.

#25 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: I can't believe I have to say this again, Batman is NOT PUNISHER! You clearly refuse to understand that.

#26 Edited by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@wessaari said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

No but it's time to get tougher! Batman would put down anybody and is prepared to do so at a moments notice, if it had to be done. We are talking about his kid here.

i know, but it would also show how he would never be compromised even if he is son is dead. Im expecting Batman to be more brutal, but I would never want him to cross that line. I would even have a problem if he intented to kill someone but it turns out that person lived. It would be the wrong thing to do if he started killing because his son died, countless fathers have lost their sons in the pages of comic books, should all of them start killing because their son died? Batman is who he is because of his unwavering principles and values. ya Damian broke those rules, but he grew up in that kind of life and honestly, in my book if he would have lived he shouldnt have been Robin anymore. It is holding your values in the face of true despair that makes you a hero

I disagree.Damian came a long way and proved himself deserving of the mantle of Robin, which happened to be passed by a former and original Robin. This is something no other Robin in dc history can boast of, none. Bruce excepted this ! You shoud be angry that he let a little kid get involved in his secret life, and as a result eventually dying which I'm angry over. Damian was a great character.

Me personally, I didnt like the kid. I felt he was a spoiled brat, yet very talented. I feel that in the end he proved himself that had what it took to be a hero, but if he didn;t end up dying he would have yet another person's blood on his hands. I feel that he added alot to the Batman mythos and proved to both Dick and Bruce a very unique take on Robin and created unique relationships between them. I hated his personality, because I really hate the little kid who gets what he wants mentality. I feel he really developed in the latest B&R issues and that makes me happy. But if he were alive today, I think he should have taken up the mantle of Redbird for a while. His death, though anticlimactic due to Morrison stating that he wanted Damian to die when he first came out, and now his death being leaked, will resonate within a good portion of the DCU. I felt he had alot of potential and once he grew out of that bratty selfish mentality I would like him alot more. I just didnt like his character, but I feel he did his best to be a hero and I respect that alot. In the end, he died a hero.

As for being mad at Bruce for allowing a little kid to be involved, I think you should be directing your anger towards Talia for that one. She is the one that trained him to be a killer, she is the reason why it has taken so long for him to develop and accept his father's principles, so for Bruce to try and mold him into something good actually makes sense to me. I feel that once he has broken the rules (the no killing rule, which Jason wasn't even accused of yet he was almost fired for being too "rough") so many times Bruce became a hypocrite to Damian, and treated him with higher regards than the other previous Robins. He was given alot of rope and in the end still relented into killing. I don't like that, I dont like how Bruce is in concern for Damian. If he was a little more stricter in his rules, but opened up to him more as a real father, I feel that Damian's progression would have been more meaningful. But Bruce let him do his thing, rarely revoked him for it, and in the end Damian's character development was alot slower. Am I glad that Damian wanted to change his ways and be a hero, I am more than happy for that. But i will not excuse his crappy behavior, and I wouldnt blame Bruce for his death. In the end, Talia is the one with the most blame here.

#27 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: Well Said sir!

#28 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio

:(

Moderator
#29 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

WOO

Moderator
#30 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should NEVER kill. If people want Heretic dead then there is a perfectly reasonable way to do it: Jason Todd. Have Todd come in, see the body of a dead Robin, and kill Heretic. He could then explain to Bruce that he knew the torment he must have been feeling, and so stepped in to ensure that he stayed true to his no kill rule. While this could hurt the newly rebudding alliance of Jason and Bruce, I think it would show a lot of growth in Jason's character.

#31 Posted by noj (1089 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: Damian did break the rule several times but at the very end when the chips were down he followed his father's no kill rule. To me that's what makes Damian's death even more tragic. The way I read it Damian could've killed the Heretic with the crossbow before he died but he chose to follow his fathers teachings and only shot him to incapacitate him. If Damian had killed he would still be alive. He really proved himself in the end. Though I don't believe its really the end for Damian. At least I hope not.

#32 Posted by JakeN7 (13183 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

What an awesome issue! I will be pissed if Damian doesnt come back by the end though and BEYOND pissed if Harper Row becomes the new Robin.

This. Also,

Morrisons Batman and Robin is what got me into comics.

Me too!

#33 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Suprman said:

@wessaari: Well Said sir!

@wessaari

said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@wessaari said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

No but it's time to get tougher! Batman would put down anybody and is prepared to do so at a moments notice, if it had to be done. We are talking about his kid here.

i know, but it would also show how he would never be compromised even if he is son is dead. Im expecting Batman to be more brutal, but I would never want him to cross that line. I would even have a problem if he intented to kill someone but it turns out that person lived. It would be the wrong thing to do if he started killing because his son died, countless fathers have lost their sons in the pages of comic books, should all of them start killing because their son died? Batman is who he is because of his unwavering principles and values. ya Damian broke those rules, but he grew up in that kind of life and honestly, in my book if he would have lived he shouldnt have been Robin anymore. It is holding your values in the face of true despair that makes you a hero

I disagree.Damian came a long way and proved himself deserving of the mantle of Robin, which happened to be passed by a former and original Robin. This is something no other Robin in dc history can boast of, none. Bruce excepted this ! You shoud be angry that he let a little kid get involved in his secret life, and as a result eventually dying which I'm angry over. Damian was a great character.

Me personally, I didnt like the kid. I felt he was a spoiled brat, yet very talented. I feel that in the end he proved himself that had what it took to be a hero, but if he didn;t end up dying he would have yet another person's blood on his hands. I feel that he added alot to the Batman mythos and proved to both Dick and Bruce a very unique take on Robin and created unique relationships between them. I hated his personality, because I really hate the little kid who gets what he wants mentality. I feel he really developed in the latest B&R issues and that makes me happy. But if he were alive today, I think he should have taken up the mantle of Redbird for a while. His death, though anticlimactic due to Morrison stating that he wanted Damian to die when he first came out, and now his death being leaked, will resonate within a good portion of the DCU. I felt he had alot of potential and once he grew out of that bratty selfish mentality I would like him alot more. I just didnt like his character, but I feel he did his best to be a hero and I respect that alot. In the end, he died a hero.

As for being mad at Bruce for allowing a little kid to be involved, I think you should be directing your anger towards Talia for that one. She is the one that trained him to be a killer, she is the reason why it has taken so long for him to develop and accept his father's principles, so for Bruce to try and mold him into something good actually makes sense to me. I feel that once he has broken the rules (the no killing rule, which Jason wasn't even accused of yet he was almost fired for being too "rough") so many times Bruce became a hypocrite to Damian, and treated him with higher regards than the other previous Robins. He was given alot of rope and in the end still relented into killing. I don't like that, I dont like how Bruce is in concern for Damian. If he was a little more stricter in his rules, but opened up to him more as a real father, I feel that Damian's progression would have been more meaningful. But Bruce let him do his thing, rarely revoked him for it, and in the end Damian's character development was alot slower. Am I glad that Damian wanted to change his ways and be a hero, I am more than happy for that. But i will not excuse his crappy behavior, and I wouldnt blame Bruce for his death. In the end, Talia is the one with the most blame here.

Both of you are entitled to your opinions regardless of how far left they may be of the masses.

#34 Posted by wessaari (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Suprman said:

@wessaari: Well Said sir!

@wessaari

said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@wessaari said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Suprman said:

@evilvegeta74: So because you want him to kill, means he has to do it. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

No but it's time to get tougher! Batman would put down anybody and is prepared to do so at a moments notice, if it had to be done. We are talking about his kid here.

i know, but it would also show how he would never be compromised even if he is son is dead. Im expecting Batman to be more brutal, but I would never want him to cross that line. I would even have a problem if he intented to kill someone but it turns out that person lived. It would be the wrong thing to do if he started killing because his son died, countless fathers have lost their sons in the pages of comic books, should all of them start killing because their son died? Batman is who he is because of his unwavering principles and values. ya Damian broke those rules, but he grew up in that kind of life and honestly, in my book if he would have lived he shouldnt have been Robin anymore. It is holding your values in the face of true despair that makes you a hero

I disagree.Damian came a long way and proved himself deserving of the mantle of Robin, which happened to be passed by a former and original Robin. This is something no other Robin in dc history can boast of, none. Bruce excepted this ! You shoud be angry that he let a little kid get involved in his secret life, and as a result eventually dying which I'm angry over. Damian was a great character.

Me personally, I didnt like the kid. I felt he was a spoiled brat, yet very talented. I feel that in the end he proved himself that had what it took to be a hero, but if he didn;t end up dying he would have yet another person's blood on his hands. I feel that he added alot to the Batman mythos and proved to both Dick and Bruce a very unique take on Robin and created unique relationships between them. I hated his personality, because I really hate the little kid who gets what he wants mentality. I feel he really developed in the latest B&R issues and that makes me happy. But if he were alive today, I think he should have taken up the mantle of Redbird for a while. His death, though anticlimactic due to Morrison stating that he wanted Damian to die when he first came out, and now his death being leaked, will resonate within a good portion of the DCU. I felt he had alot of potential and once he grew out of that bratty selfish mentality I would like him alot more. I just didnt like his character, but I feel he did his best to be a hero and I respect that alot. In the end, he died a hero.

As for being mad at Bruce for allowing a little kid to be involved, I think you should be directing your anger towards Talia for that one. She is the one that trained him to be a killer, she is the reason why it has taken so long for him to develop and accept his father's principles, so for Bruce to try and mold him into something good actually makes sense to me. I feel that once he has broken the rules (the no killing rule, which Jason wasn't even accused of yet he was almost fired for being too "rough") so many times Bruce became a hypocrite to Damian, and treated him with higher regards than the other previous Robins. He was given alot of rope and in the end still relented into killing. I don't like that, I dont like how Bruce is in concern for Damian. If he was a little more stricter in his rules, but opened up to him more as a real father, I feel that Damian's progression would have been more meaningful. But Bruce let him do his thing, rarely revoked him for it, and in the end Damian's character development was alot slower. Am I glad that Damian wanted to change his ways and be a hero, I am more than happy for that. But i will not excuse his crappy behavior, and I wouldnt blame Bruce for his death. In the end, Talia is the one with the most blame here.

Both of you are entitled to your opinions regardless of how far left they may be of the masses.

its not like Damian is just everybody's favorite character. There are a good percentage of people who really dont like the kid. So what if it is against the masses :P

#35 Posted by Avenger85 (2017 posts) - - Show Bio

Times change. And now is the time for a new, KILLING Batman.

#36 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: It is what it is!

#37 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Errr...

... I've nothing else to add

#38 Posted by RustyRoy (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

@noj what's wrong with Harper?

There's nothing wrong about her but why does she needs to be robin or a costume hero? Why can't a normal civilian interact with Batman without becoming a part of the batfamily?

#39 Posted by RustyRoy (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

I never wanted Batman to kill someone before but if he doesn't kill the person responsible for the death of his ten year old son then he is as much a cold hearted monster as the one who killed his son. People see him as just a character,an icon with strict, incorruptible moral but I see him as a man who suffered unimaginable tragedies, a father who lost his son. I'm not saying he should kill every other villains just the ones who killed his son. This could be the evolution of the character, that he can cross the line if he needed to and the reaction of his friends,family and enemies will be interesting to see. If he doesn't kill and take another robin as a partner then it will be death in the family all over again, he will become a one-dimensional character just like superman used to be. People need to let him grow as a character that's how he survived and remained one of most popular comic book characters.

#40 Posted by TDK_1997 (15060 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: You happy?

#41 Edited by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should really hand a beating over Talia and that scumbag,the Heretic.

I really want to see Talia bleeding ont the floor.

#42 Posted by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

We saw the mind-blowing 8th issue of Grant Morrison's grand plan for Batman and the last page was a heart attack for me and a lot of Damian Wayne fans.

So what do you think?Is he dead?Will Bruce find a way to save him?

Also you can just leave your opinion for the issue here.

lmao. cheap.

#43 Posted by X9 (767 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm...so...pissed...with this issue.

Really, why? The way the New 52 are being written they could've killed Tim instead of Damian. (sorry, I like Tim but let's face it...he's not essential to the Bat Family anymore) He's the character who's grown the most and created strong bonds with other characters.

It was pretty stupid to kill him right now.

Plus, the writers said he was "as dead as Bruce's parents and that he may be the first character who remains dead. If that's so, than I'm pissed in double. Everyone gets back to life but him?

Even Jason, it would've made sense if he remained dead. His return pre New 52 was pretty lame. Now I'm ok with the character, but anyway

Bummed :(

#44 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10130 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it.

#45 Posted by darkman61288 (781 posts) - - Show Bio

Daiman's death I think is going to have a big impact in the Trinity War. This death changes Batman's personality like when Jason Todd die. This will impact his relationship with the League. This is the revelation about Batman that is talked about in Jl 20.

I can imagine the conversation:

" Clark, Diana you two cnat be together that is as simple as that" says Batman

"Bruce you cant actually think we would make that kind of sacrifice" says Clark

" My son died fighting my war on Crime. Dont you talk to me about sacrifice."

#46 Posted by TDK_1997 (15060 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkman61288 said:

Daiman's death I think is going to have a big impact in the Trinity War. This death changes Batman's personality like when Jason Todd die. This will impact his relationship with the League. This is the revelation about Batman that is talked about in Jl 20.

I can imagine the conversation:

" Clark, Diana you two cnat be together that is as simple as that" says Batman

"Bruce you cant actually think we would make that kind of sacrifice" says Clark

" My son died fighting my war on Crime. Dont you talk to me about sacrifice."

I actually didn't thought a bout this but yeah.it will affect him a lot and it will be one of the reasons maybe for the Trinity War.

#47 Posted by entropy_aegis (15437 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone: Say's the guy who most likely hasn't even read it.

#48 Posted by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@turoksonofstone: Say's the guy who most likely hasn't even read it.

?

#49 Posted by RustyRoy (13840 posts) - - Show Bio

@X9 said:

I'm...so...pissed...with this issue.

Really, why? The way the New 52 are being written they could've killed Tim instead of Damian. (sorry, I like Tim but let's face it...he's not essential to the Bat Family anymore) He's the character who's grown the most and created strong bonds with other characters.

It was pretty stupid to kill him right now.

Plus, the writers said he was "as dead as Bruce's parents and that he may be the first character who remains dead. If that's so, than I'm pissed in double. Everyone gets back to life but him?

Even Jason, it would've made sense if he remained dead. His return pre New 52 was pretty lame. Now I'm ok with the character, but anyway

Bummed :(

I totally agree with you. Damian's relationship with Bruce and other family members was unique. It was actually pretty great to Bruce teach his son how to behave,be good, I really wanted to see how he would grow up, but maybe DC doesn't want their characters to age. I really hope they bring back in a couple of months, I won't complain about comic characters death not being permanent. Just make his return better and badasser than his death.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.