Does anyone actually like or support what happened to Daken?

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#1 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

About 5 years ago, Marvel introduced and began establishing a new character to their universe called Daken. He was the son of Wolverine. It's not a fantastic concept and he was far from the greatest character, but they actually invested a lot of time and effort in making the character relevant and prominent - even put him on the flag-ship title at the center of one of their biggest events. Then, a few months ago, when his solo book was cancelled due to low sales, Marvel seemed to have made the decision that since their book couldn't sell well enough the best thing to do would be to kill off the character in his final issue.

It is just a great big bitch-slap to the face of anyone who actually wound up following the character on account of the enormous push Marvel gave the character. And their prize for doing what Marvel wanted them to do by following the character? A sloppy and unimaginative death that means very little and was swept under the rug quickly as if Daken never existed.

#2 Posted by Project_Worm (3405 posts) - - Show Bio

No doubt there are people who support it there were always a ton of people who hated Daken for the simple fact that they didn't actually know who he was, and thought he was just a wannabe Wolverine. Not me however, I always thought His character had tons of potential. It's just the kind of thing Marvel does... They hype characters and then drop em' off at an abyss *cough* Sentry *cough*

#3 Posted by Onemoreposter (4052 posts) - - Show Bio

No body friend. He'll be back.

#4 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

He died?

Huh. Shows how much I care.

#5 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

My point is more that they just killed off a character they gave such a prominent push to really abruptly just because he didn't sell rather than anything else.

#6 Edited by Donovan Montgomery (5445 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

He died?

Huh. Shows how much I care.

@X35: Muramasa blade?

#7 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Donovan Montgomery:

From Wikipedia

After months of trying, he failed at becoming the head of the underworld in Los Angeles, and he was defeated using the powerful drug Heat, that gave him hallucinations and burned down his healing factor. Dying, he returned to New York to "go out with a bang", drugging his father and taking him to watch his "show". He bombed the headquarters of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four, installed bombs around the city and drugged and easily subdued Mister Fantastic. After a long battle with the heroes of the city, and without a healing factor he started to die. Daken asked for his father, hugged him and asked him to forgive him. But before Logan could say anything, Daken said he was actually sorry for putting a bomb at the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning and immolated himself with a bomb, leaving no body to bury. Wolverine rushed to his school to find nothing but a little doll of him, realizing that Daken's plan was just to leave him with nothing.
#8 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

That was just... lame :(

#9 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14698 posts) - - Show Bio

Daken who?

#10 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

how can anyone support Daken?

#11 Posted by Donovan Montgomery (5445 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35: wow...why hasn't a real villain ever been able to do that stuff???

#12 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@clemj said:

how can anyone support Daken?

This is less about Daken really and more about the circumstance about how quick Marvel were to wash their hands of something because it fared below expectations.

Like... look at it as if... when Ms. Marvel's new series fails, imagine if they then decided like Daken to just kill her off for no reason except she couldn't sell in the final issue of her series. Regardless of how many stories they left unresolved and the death had zero impact except to punctuate the failure of her book. Or Bucky... he's a character who's had a similar massive push and has recently taken up his own book. If Winter Soldier's sale begin to dwindle, and Marvel cancelled the book ending with Bucky dying... it's just a huge insult to people who were willing to follow these characters which is exactly what Marvel wanted us to do by giving them these pushes. If i make sense... i've been sipping cider most the night so i'm probably a bit incoherent. :)

#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

I never liked Daken, though he was more interesting than his dad. That said, that's pathetic. I read the wikipedia article, and that is just so stupid.  
 
Marvel just don't care about their characters any more. The worst part is that the people who actually followed Daken will just keep buying crap after crap and Marvel won't even realise they've done something wrong. 

#14 Edited by NyxEquitis (401 posts) - - Show Bio

Pathetic as it may be, I never liked him at all. IMO a bad use of a character. Not gonna shed any tears at his death.

#15 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35: I saw it as a waste of a decent character and a sad attempt to get any sales on the final issue. My bet is that he'll be back.

Moderator
#16 Edited by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

You've got to remember there was still unresolved stories for Daken.........like prominent stuff too......so killing him off seems to have litch just been a way to punctuate his series and an excuse for marvel to get rid of something that didn't hit their expectations in sales.......

There was plenty of things that could've been done with daken that didn't require him having a solo book but... as the norm marvel doesn't care, hates their readers, etc.

#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33452 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel love to kill there characters 
 
Daken - Dead 
Toxin -Dead 
Sabra - Dead 
Crimson Dynamo - Dead 
Echo - Dead 
Red Guardian - Dead 
Eric O'Grady - Dead 
 
all in the last few months 

#18 Posted by Reality (135 posts) - - Show Bio

He's not dead.

@spiderbat87 said:

Marvel love to kill there characters Daken - Dead Toxin -Dead Sabra - Dead Crimson Dynamo - Dead Echo - Dead Red Guardian - Dead Eric O'Grady - Dead all in the last few months

Sabra's not dead.

#19 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reality said:

He's not dead.

@spiderbat87 said:

Marvel love to kill there characters Daken - Dead Toxin -Dead Sabra - Dead Crimson Dynamo - Dead Echo - Dead Red Guardian - Dead Eric O'Grady - Dead all in the last few months

Sabra's not dead.

I know the writer says so but there's nothing in the actual comic to suggest otherwise. Imagine if the writer had died shortly after he wrote that story, nobody would've ever known she survived from a "glancing hit".

#20 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33452 posts) - - Show Bio
@Reality said:

He's not dead.

@spiderbat87 said:

Marvel love to kill there characters Daken - Dead Toxin -Dead Sabra - Dead Crimson Dynamo - Dead Echo - Dead Red Guardian - Dead Eric O'Grady - Dead all in the last few months

Sabra's not dead.

she just got shot in the head didnt she?
#21 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Daken - Dead
Toxin -Dead
Sabra - Dead
Crimson Dynamo - Dead
Echo - Dead
Red Guardian - Dead
Eric O'Grady - Dead
all in the last few months

Don't forget Madame Masque who had the worst death of them all in stupid Moon Knight >.<

#22 Posted by Reality (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

she just got shot in the head didnt she?

Not in the head, but the writer said she was alive.

@X35 said:

I know the writer says so but there's nothing in the actual comic to suggest otherwise.

I'm sorry, but that's not a valid argument. Many things are written so they look like something else. It happens all the time.

Imagine if the writer had died shortly after he wrote that story, nobody would've ever known she survived from a "glancing hit".

I'm not sure how that's relevant at all?

#23 Posted by Reality (135 posts) - - Show Bio

And I should clarify, when I said "He's not dead" I meant that he's going to be coming back eventually.

#24 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33452 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35 said:

@spiderbat87 said:

Daken - Dead
Toxin -Dead
Sabra - Dead
Crimson Dynamo - Dead
Echo - Dead
Red Guardian - Dead
Eric O'Grady - Dead
all in the last few months

Don't forget Madame Masque who had the worst death of them all in stupid Moon Knight >.<

Yea and I'm sure there are a few others I'm missing, some one should do a eulogy for all the characters Marvel deems unimportant and kill's off for on reason 
#25 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@spiderbat87 said:

Daken - Dead
Toxin -Dead
Sabra - Dead
Crimson Dynamo - Dead
Echo - Dead
Red Guardian - Dead
Eric O'Grady - Dead
all in the last few months

Don't forget Madame Masque who had the worst death of them all in stupid Moon Knight >.<

She's dead :O Bendis -__-

#26 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Crappest death of them all. Moon Knight pushed her over and she hit her head off a fire hydrant.

And then Moon Knight spent the next issue bragging about how he killed her to her father.

#27 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35: pats Marvel set out to make "cooler" "More Modern' versions of characters in first decade of the 2000s, it is still a success for them, they squeezed a few extra bucks outta people

Makes a bring back Madame Masque shirt <3

#28 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: Crappest death of them all. Moon Knight pushed her over and she hit her head off a fire hydrant.

And then Moon Knight spent the next issue bragging about how he killed her to her father.

That's fcking ridiculous. I mean, that really... Sigh.

#29 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33452 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: Crappest death of them all. Moon Knight pushed her over and she hit her head off a fire hydrant.

And then Moon Knight spent the next issue bragging about how he killed her to her father.

That's fcking ridiculous. I mean, that really... Sigh.

hay X post the scan to show just how stupid it was 
#30 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reality said:

@spiderbat87 said:

she just got shot in the head didnt she?

Not in the head, but the writer said she was alive.

@X35 said:

I know the writer says so but there's nothing in the actual comic to suggest otherwise.

I'm sorry, but that's not a valid argument. Many things are written so they look like something else. It happens all the time.

Imagine if the writer had died shortly after he wrote that story, nobody would've ever known she survived from a "glancing hit".

I'm not sure how that's relevant at all?

Of course it's relevant. If something's not in a book, then there's no concrete evidence to suggest otherwise. Chris Claremont said loads of his interpretations and ideas about X-Men characters that wound up not being canon at all. Plenty of people clearly interpreted Sabra being shot as a death, there's nothing whatsoever in the comic to suggest it's anything but, and it wasn't until the day after that the writer came out and said "oh no, it was just a glancing hit, she's ok".

#31 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

Of course it's relevant. If something's not in a book, then there's no concrete evidence to suggest otherwise. Chris Claremont said loads of his interpretations and ideas about X-Men characters that wound up not being canon at all. Plenty of people clearly interpreted Sabra being shot as a death, there's nothing whatsoever in the comic to suggest it's anything but, and it wasn't until the day after that the writer came out and said "oh no, it was just a glancing hit, she's ok".

But the story is ongoing, is it not? If not then you would be right, I guess, but they could bring her back just as easily without an explanation, much like it was done with Sabretooth.

#32 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: Crappest death of them all. Moon Knight pushed her over and she hit her head off a fire hydrant.

And then Moon Knight spent the next issue bragging about how he killed her to her father.

That's fcking ridiculous. I mean, that really... Sigh.

hay X post the scan to show just how stupid it was
Madame Masque's Death (Alex Maleev, Moon Knight #11)
Moon Knight #11

The only thing missing is the next panel where Moon Knight adds insult to injury to all the Madame Masque fans by saying "Whoa, there's nothing wrong with her face, she's crazier than me!"

#33 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@X35 said:

Of course it's relevant. If something's not in a book, then there's no concrete evidence to suggest otherwise. Chris Claremont said loads of his interpretations and ideas about X-Men characters that wound up not being canon at all. Plenty of people clearly interpreted Sabra being shot as a death, there's nothing whatsoever in the comic to suggest it's anything but, and it wasn't until the day after that the writer came out and said "oh no, it was just a glancing hit, she's ok".

But the story is ongoing, is it not? If not then you would be right, I guess, but they could bring her back just as easily without an explanation, much like it was done with Sabretooth.

but that story is written by another writer as opposed to Slott who's writing the main story......and she's pretty minor to the story

#34 Posted by Walker696 (984 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw Daken they killed off Toxin?????? I kinda liked Daken and yes I agree with the main point of the article Marvel has been introducing characters and building them up the past few years just to either kill them off or forget about them (Sentry and Blue Marvel are the mains ones so far). And my friends wonder why I stop buying and just started downloading comics. Who knows they may kill off the Avengers again if their sales drop.

#35 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

@ReVamp said:

@X35 said:

Of course it's relevant. If something's not in a book, then there's no concrete evidence to suggest otherwise. Chris Claremont said loads of his interpretations and ideas about X-Men characters that wound up not being canon at all. Plenty of people clearly interpreted Sabra being shot as a death, there's nothing whatsoever in the comic to suggest it's anything but, and it wasn't until the day after that the writer came out and said "oh no, it was just a glancing hit, she's ok".

But the story is ongoing, is it not? If not then you would be right, I guess, but they could bring her back just as easily without an explanation, much like it was done with Sabretooth.

but that story is written by another writer as opposed to Slott who's writing the main story......and she's pretty minor to the story

Meh, just being written by different people doesn't mean much. But I guess I should read it before I go on any further.

#36 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33452 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

@X35 said:

@ReVamp said:

@X35 said:

Of course it's relevant. If something's not in a book, then there's no concrete evidence to suggest otherwise. Chris Claremont said loads of his interpretations and ideas about X-Men characters that wound up not being canon at all. Plenty of people clearly interpreted Sabra being shot as a death, there's nothing whatsoever in the comic to suggest it's anything but, and it wasn't until the day after that the writer came out and said "oh no, it was just a glancing hit, she's ok".

But the story is ongoing, is it not? If not then you would be right, I guess, but they could bring her back just as easily without an explanation, much like it was done with Sabretooth.

but that story is written by another writer as opposed to Slott who's writing the main story......and she's pretty minor to the story

Meh, just being written by different people doesn't mean much. But I guess I should read it before I go on any further.

I'm pretty sure the issue she was in was just a one shot and Slott or anybody else will not be carrying it on 
#37 Posted by FinnVarra (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Man I wasn't even aware that he had died. I just don't understand why Marvel invests so much time in a character only to throw them away on a whim. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, they do this all the time.

Just ask this guy.
#38 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
Daken is great.  
 
I don't mind his "death" all that much honestly. It was appropriately vague and there is more than sufficient an opening for any writer that wishes to bring him back at any given time. The only thing I hope for is that, whoever eventually does, treats him well. Aka, Remender, hands off.
Moderator
#39 Posted by The_Peter_Cosmic (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@Walker696 said:

Screw Daken they killed off Toxin?????? I kinda liked Daken and yes I agree with the main point of the article Marvel has been introducing characters and building them up the past few years just to either kill them off or forget about them (Sentry and Blue Marvel are the mains ones so far). And my friends wonder why I stop buying and just started downloading comics. Who knows they may kill off the Avengers again if their sales drop.

They killed Toxin's host (off panel and mentioned casually so could still be alive), the Toxin symbiote is being featured prominently in Venom's ongoing.

#40 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33452 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Peter_Cosmic said:

@Walker696 said:

Screw Daken they killed off Toxin?????? I kinda liked Daken and yes I agree with the main point of the article Marvel has been introducing characters and building them up the past few years just to either kill them off or forget about them (Sentry and Blue Marvel are the mains ones so far). And my friends wonder why I stop buying and just started downloading comics. Who knows they may kill off the Avengers again if their sales drop.

They killed Toxin's host (off panel and mentioned casually so could still be alive), the Toxin symbiote is being featured prominently in Venom's ongoing.

It was Pat the made the character interesting, without him it's not Toxin 
#41 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: Agreed. The dynamic between Pat and the Toxin symbiote was really interesting and had a lot of potential but it was like Marvel just forgot about the character. And now that they could have done something great with him, the only thing Remender did was that:

"Beaten to death in a gutter." -Rick Remender on the fate of Pat Mulligan, Toxin's former host. "It took place off panel, but Blackheart killed him to acquire the symbiote."
"I think everybody responded well to Anti-Venom, and it was cool, but a lot of the symbiotes have become too sympathetic. We wanted to give Venom his own Venom. You've got Carnage out there, but we wanted one more. Eddie Brock as Toxin is a revenge-fueled nightmare monster." -Rick Remender

Seriously, that's really infuriating. He used Pat like cannon fodder only to use the Toxin symbiote for making a new bad guy! Even if they didn't show his death, I don't think that there's a lot of writers who care enough to resurrect him.

That's really a waste of a great character and it's a perfect example of what's wrong with Marvel. They mishandle great characters with a lot of potential and kill them off later for shock value, what a shame! :(

#42 Posted by The_Peter_Cosmic (401 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: I actually found the symbiote's childishness curiosity and the desire validation from Pat to be the most interesting aspect of the character. In the Toxin series anyway. Regardless, the symbiote hasn't shown any aspects of that personality so far so I'm, as of yet, disappointed as well.

#43 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35 said:


From Wikipedia

After months of trying, he failed at becoming the head of the underworld in Los Angeles, and he was defeated using the powerful drug Heat, that gave him hallucinations and burned down his healing factor. Dying, he returned to New York to "go out with a bang", drugging his father and taking him to watch his "show". He bombed the headquarters of the Avengers and the Fantastic Four, installed bombs around the city and drugged and easily subdued Mister Fantastic. After a long battle with the heroes of the city, and without a healing factor he started to die. Daken asked for his father, hugged him and asked him to forgive him. But before Logan could say anything, Daken said he was actually sorry for putting a bomb at the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning and immolated himself with a bomb, leaving no body to bury. Wolverine rushed to his school to find nothing but a little doll of him, realizing that Daken's plan was just to leave him with nothing.
From the outside looking in.....that sounds pretty f'n badass, but thats me.
Moderator
#44 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Daken better return!

#45 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Daken got screwed bad, he even had an action figure or two! I liked the guy and considered him a wild card, I'm gonna put him in my Kidpool Kills the Marvel Universe as more than just a reference!

#46 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

It's Marvel, death is at worst a minor inconvenience.

#47 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

He'll be back.

#48 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

I never liked Daken that much but in the Dark Avengers he was my favorite member with Bullseye.He was a character that wasn't that interesting to me till last year and I don't believe that he will stay dead much.5 months max.

#49 Posted by HellionVulcan (3781 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

My point is more that they just killed off a character they gave such a prominent push to really abruptly just because he didn't sell rather than anything else.

well the whole drug addiction thing made him not likeable any more to me its marvels own fault they screwed daken up but i hope he never died thou as theres still so much they could do with him .

#50 Posted by HellionVulcan (3781 posts) - - Show Bio

@FinnVarra said:

Man I wasn't even aware that he had died. I just don't understand why Marvel invests so much time in a character only to throw them away on a whim. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, they do this all the time.

Just ask this guy.

to be fair Ares stayed dead like a week before coming back for like 5 issues in chaos war before being chained up & never seen or heard from again .

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