What are Cyclops' crimes against...?

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#1 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America says that he's under arrest for Crimes against... (He was interrupted), but it leads the reader to assume that he's under arrest for Crimes against humanity?

But... what crimes? Granted he's been kind of a jerk, and he has done some bad stuff, but almost everyone in this event is a jerk. Are they blaming him for the actions of his subordinates?

The only evil thing he's done is kill Professor X... and even then he was being attacked and gave him many warnings.

Cyclops has been gradually getting more dark, but this event just feels like an excuse to make the Avengers look good at the expense of Cyclops.

#3 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@LeeSensei: We'll apparently see it in AvX #12 so stay tuned?

#4 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

^Anything he does in AvX 12 doesn't count. Captain America said that he was guilty before, but none of his actions have been evil.

The worst he's done is... try to take his granddaughter from the Avengers and kill Professor X in self-defense after begging him to stop attacking.

I know that they're trying to portray Cyclops as a bad guy, but they've failed miserably at it. Any of the P5 except for him can be seen as bad guys... but Cyclops is being targeted by everyone. It makes those traitors and the Avengers seem like hypocritical jerks who are worse than Cyclops. While they're so busy trying to provoke the Phoenix, Cyclops was saving the world. And now this.

#5 Posted by Aero_gt (840 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops was right all along. I won't spoil it, but it will be a bittersweet end for Cyclops and Cap.

#6 Posted by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

forcing paradise onto humanity is still a form of dictatorship, best form but still a crime against humanity he also been housing a weapon of mass destruction in Hope

#7 Edited by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasino said:

forcing paradise onto humanity is still a form of dictatorship, best form but still a crime against humanity he also been housing a weapon of mass destruction in Hope

Did he ever enforce his anti-war threats?

I'd argue stagnation, and withholding resources is worse than "forcing paradise" on to humanity.

@Aero_gt: You read it?

#8 Edited by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2: no he didn't but threats and capability are enough to be taken down

he does have possession of something that can destroy everything

understand I'm totally for Cyclops in this, he is protecting his people the best he can while the Avengers rarely has helped them but i can understand as having a your own nation and an army with destructive force it could be seen as threatening to the rest of the world

#9 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aero_gt said:

Cyclops was right all along. I won't spoil it, but it will be a bittersweet end for Cyclops and Cap.

PM me and spoil it there :p

#10 Posted by Kurolegacy (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasino said:

@soduh2: no he didn't but threats and capability are enough to be taken down

he does have possession of something that can destroy everything

understand I'm totally for Cyclops in this, he is protecting his people the best he can while the Avengers rarely has helped them but i can understand as having a your own nation and an army with destructive force it could be seen as threatening to the rest of the world

While I can understand the notion of protecting his people, he did take things a bit too far once he became the host of the Phoenix, especially when you think about it enough. Back when he established pax Utopia, he also had the P5 dispose of the world's weapons. While initially that may seem like something to enforce peace as people no longer has the means of engaging war against each other, when you think about it you realize that in addition to that, he's also taken away humanity being able to defend itself should it need to come to that while he has an island of super powered beings.At that point, he was holding all of the guns.

#11 Posted by LoganX360 (121 posts) - - Show Bio

I was being patient with the Avengers Vs xmen story line .... but .. what the hell is this crap ? ? first off , dont u need to have some form of high level telepathy to even be a host to the phoenix wat is this crap , why is cyclops wearing a thong jock strap , Y does the match fighting power stunts in VS matches dont make any sense . How many times is ironman in tin foil gonna go up against the phoenix & Not die , but yet xavier the only & most experience person to ever confront the phoenix get a migraine & die . Captain America surviving a charged up Chest plate from an advanced gambit & not even stun ' to Spiderman Surviving Phoenix punches from Colossus izzz u buggin ' ?? to hope , okay we get the point u look like jean grey with ms marvel power stunts wtf is going on ? & magneto acting like a confused new mutants student ... cmon someone explain this Not so Avengers vs Xmen <~~ name title for sales cause its really Everyone Vs People who cant really host the phoenix .

Peace :)

#12 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aero_gt said:

Cyclops was right all along. I won't spoil it, but it will be a bittersweet end for Cyclops and Cap.

Spoil it for me in a PM

#13 Posted by ghostrider fan1 (778 posts) - - Show Bio

@LeeSensei: id say that cyces had the most control through the series BUT the rest of them were doing terrible things.

1. making an ultimatum against the world that if you dont go along with their plan, they'll MAKE you

2. Namor attacks Wakanda and floods a lot of it, killing many

3. Magik being a total evil bi!ch and throwing heroes to a demon pit

4. Colossus attacking the jean gray school because he got rejected (that was so stupid)

5. Frost mind controlling other mutants and killing those who hated on mutants

i can say that he did defend himself in killing xavier, but then he wen crazy ape sh!t!!! lol

lastly, can you PM me what happens too?

#14 Posted by ghostrider fan1 (778 posts) - - Show Bio

oh and another one for emma is she nearly KILLED hawkeye, burning him to a crisp. but of course, as i said, that was not cykes

#15 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostrider fan1 said:

@LeeSensei: id say that cyces had the most control through the series BUT the rest of them were doing terrible things.

1. making an ultimatum against the world that if you dont go along with their plan, they'll MAKE you

2. Namor attacks Wakanda and floods a lot of it, killing many

3. Magik being a total evil bi!ch and throwing heroes to a demon pit

4. Colossus attacking the jean gray school because he got rejected (that was so stupid)

5. Frost mind controlling other mutants and killing those who hated on mutants

i can say that he did defend himself in killing xavier, but then he wen crazy ape sh!t!!! lol

lastly, can you PM me what happens too?

None of those were Cyclops and the Ultimatum was just. If you were the most powerful being in the world, you wouldn't tell people to cut out that genocide and war bs?

#16 Posted by ghostrider fan1 (778 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: i said that none of those were cykes. and also, yes from your viewpoint that does sound nice... until you realize they have become overlords who are now taking away your freedom. dont believe me? look at emma

#17 Edited by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

^Except they didn't and the world loved them for it. Everyone except for the Avengers.

Funny thing. Emma nearly killed Hawkeye for breaking into their home, brutalizing their children, and kidnapping Cykes granddaughter. So Cyclops heals him. How does Hawkeye repay this kindness? By trying to kill him. Lol.

@kasino said:

forcing paradise onto humanity is still a form of dictatorship, best form but still a crime against humanity he also been housing a weapon of mass destruction in Hope

The world loved them for bringing peace. Everyone except for the Avengers. So they break into his house and kidnap his granddaughter. It's not a crime against humanity. They fed the starving, created crops, gave them clean water and free energy, stopped war cleaned up the planet etc.. And once Cyclops is defeated the Marvel Comics Earth is going to go back to being a terrible.

And Hope isn't a WMD. Hope is his granddaughter. But even if she was a WMD... it doesn't matter. IIRC around 20 countries are known to have WMD's and at least 10 more have the economic, scientific, and military advancements to make them in a short amount of time. And the Avengers have the Professor X, Scarlet Witch, Thor, Doctor Strange, and the Hulk with them. They have 'WMD's' too. And before that they had the Sentry.

#18 Posted by lorex (954 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops crimes are that his actions the the actions of the P5 disrupted the status quo of the world. Even the Civil War did not do that, outside of New York anyway.

#19 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

@Aero_gt said:

Cyclops was right all along. I won't spoil it, but it will be a bittersweet end for Cyclops and Cap.

Spoil it for me in a PM

Ditto

#20 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: @lorex: @LeeSensei: @soduh2: @ApatheticAvenger: @Aero_gt: This was all obviously forced to make the Avengers look good. If nothing else it took Scott going Dark Phoenix to even be pushed to such extremes given that editorial knew no other way than to pen anything on Scott. Even with the cosmic space chicken lollygagging within him he was able to maintain some form of control.

From what I understand this issue seems to end on a rather mean-spirited note anyway,however, I feel that everything won't be so cut and dry from the Avengers or the X-Men.

#21 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kurolegacy: yes I think we both can agree he has made some mistakes in steps of bringing the world a utopia but because it was with the power of lets say a nuclear weapon it could be seen as tryantical, however i don't think he meant to come off as such and others actions made him more of tyrant then he ever set out to beI'm totally with Scott in this but I get how he needs to be taken down from someone else point of view

#23 Posted by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: you sure? I hope so

#24 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasino: Remember what his original goal was.

#25 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye said:

@TheCrowbar: @lorex: @LeeSensei: @soduh2: @ApatheticAvenger: @Aero_gt: This was all obviously forced to make the Avengers look good. If nothing else it took Scott going Dark Phoenix to even be pushed to such extremes given that editorial knew no other way than to pen anything on Scott. Even with the cosmic space chicken lollygagging within him he was able to maintain some form of control.

From what I understand this issue seems to end on a rather mean-spirited note anyway,however, I feel that everything won't be so cut and dry from the Avengers or the X-Men.

@One_Eye said:

@TheCrowbar: @lorex: @LeeSensei: @soduh2: @ApatheticAvenger: @Aero_gt: This was all obviously forced to make the Avengers look good. If nothing else it took Scott going Dark Phoenix to even be pushed to such extremes given that editorial knew no other way than to pen anything on Scott. Even with the cosmic space chicken lollygagging within him he was able to maintain some form of control.

From what I understand this issue seems to end on a rather mean-spirited note anyway,however, I feel that everything won't be so cut and dry from the Avengers or the X-Men.

It sucked for Cyclops. I can't wait until Cap dies again. He really deserves it this time.

#26 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasino said:

@Kurolegacy: yes I think we both can agree he has made some mistakes in steps of bringing the world a utopia but because it was with the power of lets say a nuclear weapon it could be seen as tryantical, however i don't think he meant to come off as such and others actions made him more of tyrant then he ever set out to beI'm totally with Scott in this but I get how he needs to be taken down from someone else point of view

Actually everyone in the world loved them for bringing world peace except the Avengers. It said that in the comics.

#27 Posted by redwingx (756 posts) - - Show Bio

What's funny is that Cyclops gets jailed but Scarlet Witch becomes a hero. The writers really hates Cyclops. Also Wolverine is a douche, this whole event started thanks to that character.

#28 Posted by maki0129 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, give me a break. Suddenly you people are saying Cyclops is the good guy in this tale?

The Phoenix was destroying every planet in the way on its path to Earth, did Cyclops honestly expect the Avengers to sit idly by and let the Phoenix reach Hope and see what happened? They weren't even trying to kill her, they were only trying to lock her up and take her to a safe place while they dealt with the Phoenix, but Cyclops decided to just eyebeam Cap's ass, and assume they were doing it because they wanted to oppress mutants. Then he goes Phoenix, and while he is Phoenix he does do some nice things, along with some very questionable things like destroying every weapon in the world and holding every nation to an ultimatum, but its shown from the start that none of the Phoenix Five have the Phoenix force fully under control, Magik is suddenly holding people in a hellish prison, Emma goes all serial killer, Namor INVADES and nearly destroys Wakanda, and Cyclops tries to hold Hope prisoner against her will.

But sure... The Avengers are the bad guys here. Were they shortsighted at times, definitely, but fucking Cyclops was an asshole throughout this whole series, and Cyclops being an ass has been an ongoing issue for years.

Let's recap the last few years of Cyclops' history if we will:

- Cheated on his wife with a blonde, who wore his wife's favorite GENOCIDE costume.

- Founded a squad of assassins, in which he stuck TWO underage mutant girls.

- Allowed a known terrorist and mutant supremacist into the X-Men

- Unconstitutionally founded his own nation just off the coast of San Francisco.

- Ordered an untrained mutant teenage girl into battle against a bunch of mercenaries.

- Declared every citizen of Utopia part of his "army", forcing Wolverine to split off to his own school to protect them from Cyclops isolationist militaristic views.

- Invited a cosmic force known for destroying countless planets into Earth's backyard without ANY guarantee that it wouldn't incinerate Earth too.

- Threatened every nation of the world with destruction if they even think about armed conflict.

- Hunted down the Avengers for no apparent reason, and ordered their arrest into a hellish prison.

- Betrayed Emma Frost for her share of the Phoenix powers before even hitting Dark Phoenix stage.

- Killed Charles Xavier.

BUT THE AVENGERS ARE THE BAD GUYS HERE.

SERIOUSLY.

#29 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12922 posts) - - Show Bio

AvX was garbage written to make all heroes look like juvenile,imbecilic,pieces of crap. anyone who is actually believes this is who these characters are is either an A.an idiot, b.Is gullible C. had some kind of problem with one side to begin with D. is just ignorant or E.all of the above

Online
#30 Posted by maki0129 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

It's hard not to have a problem with Cyclops, he's been nothing short of a complete jackass ever since the end of Whedon's run on the X-Men.

#31 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@maki0129 said:

Oh, give me a break. Suddenly you people are saying Cyclops is the good guy in this tale?

The Phoenix was destroying every planet in the way on its path to Earth, did Cyclops honestly expect the Avengers to sit idly by and let the Phoenix reach Hope and see what happened? They weren't even trying to kill her, they were only trying to lock her up and take her to a safe place while they dealt with the Phoenix, but Cyclops decided to just eyebeam Cap's ass, and assume they were doing it because they wanted to oppress mutants. Then he goes Phoenix, and while he is Phoenix he does do some nice things, along with some very questionable things like destroying every weapon in the world and holding every nation to an ultimatum, but its shown from the start that none of the Phoenix Five have the Phoenix force fully under control, Magik is suddenly holding people in a hellish prison, Emma goes all serial killer, Namor INVADES and nearly destroys Wakanda, and Cyclops tries to hold Hope prisoner against her will.

But sure... The Avengers are the bad guys here. Were they shortsighted at times, definitely, but fucking Cyclops was an asshole throughout this whole series, and Cyclops being an ass has been an ongoing issue for years.

Let's recap the last few years of Cyclops' history if we will:

-1.) Cheated on his wife with a blonde, who wore his wife's favorite GENOCIDE costume.

-2.) Founded a squad of assassins, in which he stuck TWO underage mutant girls.

-3.) Allowed a known terrorist and mutant supremacist into the X-Men

- 4.) Unconstitutionally founded his own nation just off the coast of San Francisco.

- 5.) Ordered an untrained mutant teenage girl into battle against a bunch of mercenaries.

- 6.) Declared every citizen of Utopia part of his "army", forcing Wolverine to split off to his own school to protect them from Cyclops isolationist militaristic views.

- 7.)Invited a cosmic force known for destroying countless planets into Earth's backyard without ANY guarantee that it wouldn't incinerate Earth too.

- 8.) Threatened every nation of the world with destruction if they even think about armed conflict.

- 9.) Hunted down the Avengers for no apparent reason, and ordered their arrest into a hellish prison.

- 10.) Betrayed Emma Frost for her share of the Phoenix powers before even hitting Dark Phoenix stage.

- 11.) Killed Charles Xavier.

BUT THE AVENGERS ARE THE BAD GUYS HERE.

SERIOUSLY.

1.) Jean had already locked lips with Wolverine during that time and essentially ignored him. Their relationship was all but dead and Jean gave her blessing to the relationship afterwards.

2.) He wasn't the founder of X-Force, Cable was. And Cyclops disbanded it, Wolverine is the one that continued it.

3.) 200 mutants left on the planet, and he had no help from anyone else outside his race.

4.) Was forced to, to avoid his people being murdered and enslaved by Norman Osborn during Dark Reign. Mind you, he came to Asgard and the Avenger's aid during Siege.

5.) To save the lives of innocent people.(Though sorta dickish)

6.) He didn't force Wolverine out, he let Wolverine go and whoever wanted to go, with his blessing, hell he gave them a Blackbird for crying out loud. Psylocke was both on his security team and with Wolverine's X-Force.

7.) He didn't invite the Phoenix Force to Earth. It was coming and there was nothing anyone could do about it. Keeping Hope in a "safehouse" wasn't going to stop something that could incinerate planets. He gave his word to Cable he'd protect Hope from the Avengers. Remember even in the end Tony Stark couldn't figure out how to stop the Phoenix. His first plan caused the Phoenix 5 to be created, they didn't grab power it was thrusted on them.

8.) How dare the most powerful being enforce world peace.

9.) The apparent reason was because they attacked him. Invaded his country and threatened the lives of his people.

10.) Emma goaded him into taking the power, you see that in Uncanny X-men.

11.) Who was already attacking him while the Avengers sieged him.

#32 Edited by maki0129 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

1.) Jean had already locked lips with Wolverine during that time and essentially ignored him. Their relationship was all but dead and Jean gave her blessing to the relationship afterwards.

Then get a divorce like a grown ass man.

2.) He wasn't the founder of X-Force, Cable was. And Cyclops disbanded it, Wolverine is the one that continued it.

Actually If you see X-Force no.1 It was Cyclops that convinced Wolverine to continue X-Force once Messiah Complex was over (after which, the squad had been disbanded), and he was also the one that stuck Laura and Rahne in there.

3.) 200 mutants left on the planet, and he had no help from anyone else outside his race.

And that makes it OK to work with Magneto who threatened to exterminate the entire human race more than once?

4.) Was forced to, to avoid his people being murdered and enslaved by Norman Osborn during Dark Reign. Mind you, he came to Asgard and the Avenger's aid during Siege.

He could have just as easily seeked refuge in any nation, I'm pretty sure the QUEEN OF WAKANDA woudln't have minded to give it to them, but no, he decided to create his own like that was the only logica way out. IT WASN'T.

5.) To save the lives of innocent people.(Though sorta dickish)

Still unacceptable, specially since he didn't even think about it.

6.) He didn't force Wolverine out, he let Wolverine go and whoever wanted to go, with his blessing, hell he gave them a Blackbird for crying out loud. Psylocke was both on his security team and with Wolverine's X-Force.

He turned his whole little nation state into a militaristic isolationalist nation, he went power mad, to the extreme that even FUCKING WOLVERINE went "Woah, dude too far".

7.) He didn't invite the Phoenix Force to Earth. It was coming and there was nothing anyone could do about it. Keeping Hope in a "safehouse" wasn't going to stop something that could incinerate planets. He gave his word to Cable he'd protect Hope from the Avengers. Remember even in the end Tony Stark couldn't figure out how to stop the Phoenix. His first plan caused the Phoenix 5 to be created, they didn't grab power it was thrusted on them.

The Phoenix Force didn't need to get to Earth, Cyclops could have just as easily allowed the Avengers to take Hope with the condition that he could accompany her and then helped the Avengers develop countermeasures against the Phoenix Force, instead he wanted to force the power of the most powerful cosmic entity known to man to a small girl who wouldn't have been able to handle it at the moment, all because of some vague messianic delusion that all of mutant kind had already been forcing on her.

8.) How dare the most powerful being enforce world peace.

You can't ENFORCE peace, and you certainly can't force peace with threats, the U.S. of A has been trying that sort of interventionist policy for ages, and the rest of the world isn't all that crazy about it in case you hadn't noticed.

9.) The apparent reason was because they attacked him. Invaded his country and threatened the lives of his people.

And once he had control of the most powerful force on Earth and was essentially untouchable by any of them, he instead of deciding to renegotiate just branded them all criminals and allowed Magik to create her hell prison to retain them in. Awesome stuff...

10.) Emma goaded him into taking the power, you see that in Uncanny X-men.

"I can't believe you." - Emma Frost, AvX #11

Even if she goaded him, he didn't have to leave her at the Avengers' mercy like that.

11.) Who was already attacking him while the Avengers sieged him.

Already attacking him because by now it was obvious they had all gone batshit crazy. Which everyone warned them against BEFOREHAND... like... WAAAAAAAY before.

#33 Posted by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

@LeeSensei said:

^Anything he does in AvX 12 doesn't count. Captain America said that he was guilty before, but none of his actions have been evil.

The worst he's done is... try to take his granddaughter from the Avengers and kill Professor X in self-defense after begging him to stop attacking.

I know that they're trying to portray Cyclops as a bad guy, but they've failed miserably at it. Any of the P5 except for him can be seen as bad guys... but Cyclops is being targeted by everyone. It makes those traitors and the Avengers seem like hypocritical jerks who are worse than Cyclops. While they're so busy trying to provoke the Phoenix, Cyclops was saving the world. And now this.

It's sad but true.

#34 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@maki0129 said:

1.) Jean had already locked lips with Wolverine during that time and essentially ignored him. Their relationship was all but dead and Jean gave her blessing to the relationship afterwards.

Then get a divorce like a grown ass man.

2.) He wasn't the founder of X-Force, Cable was. And Cyclops disbanded it, Wolverine is the one that continued it.

Actually If you see X-Force no.1 It was Cyclops that convinced Wolverine to continue X-Force once Messiah Complex was over (after which, the squad had been disbanded), and he was also the one that stuck Laura and Rahne in there.

3.) 200 mutants left on the planet, and he had no help from anyone else outside his race.

And that makes it OK to work with Magneto who threatened to exterminate the entire human race more than once?

4.) Was forced to, to avoid his people being murdered and enslaved by Norman Osborn during Dark Reign. Mind you, he came to Asgard and the Avenger's aid during Siege.

He could have just as easily seeked refuge in any nation, I'm pretty sure the QUEEN OF WAKANDA woudln't have minded to give it to them, but no, he decided to create his own like that was the only logica way out. IT WASN'T.

5.) To save the lives of innocent people.(Though sorta dickish)

Still unacceptable, specially since he didn't even think about it.

6.) He didn't force Wolverine out, he let Wolverine go and whoever wanted to go, with his blessing, hell he gave them a Blackbird for crying out loud. Psylocke was both on his security team and with Wolverine's X-Force.

He turned his whole little nation state into a militaristic isolationalist nation, he went power mad, to the extreme that even FUCKING WOLVERINE went "Woah, dude too far".

7.) He didn't invite the Phoenix Force to Earth. It was coming and there was nothing anyone could do about it. Keeping Hope in a "safehouse" wasn't going to stop something that could incinerate planets. He gave his word to Cable he'd protect Hope from the Avengers. Remember even in the end Tony Stark couldn't figure out how to stop the Phoenix. His first plan caused the Phoenix 5 to be created, they didn't grab power it was thrusted on them.

The Phoenix Force didn't need to get to Earth, Cyclops could have just as easily allowed the Avengers to take Hope with the condition that he could accompany her and then helped the Avengers develop countermeasures against the Phoenix Force, instead he wanted to force the power of the most powerful cosmic entity known to man to a small girl who wouldn't have been able to handle it at the moment, all because of some vague messianic delusion that all of mutant kind had already been forcing on her.

8.) How dare the most powerful being enforce world peace.

You can't ENFORCE peace, and you certainly can't force peace with threats, the U.S. of A has been trying that sort of interventionist policy for ages, and the rest of the world isn't all that crazy about it in case you hadn't noticed.

9.) The apparent reason was because they attacked him. Invaded his country and threatened the lives of his people.

And once he had control of the most powerful force on Earth and was essentially untouchable by any of them, he instead of deciding to renegotiate just branded them all criminals and allowed Magik to create her hell prison to retain them in. Awesome stuff...

10.) Emma goaded him into taking the power, you see that in Uncanny X-men.

"I can't believe you." - Emma Frost, AvX #11

Even if she goaded him, he didn't have to leave her at the Avengers' mercy like that.

11.) Who was already attacking him while the Avengers sieged him.

Already attacking him because by now it was obvious they had all gone batshit crazy. Which everyone warned them against BEFOREHAND... like... WAAAAAAAY before.

1.) Relationships are complicated, bashing him over the head about this isn't very fair either. Remember Apocalypse had just finished riding his body like crazed cowboy on a bronco.

2.) Actually X-Force existed well before then http://www.comicvine.com/x-force/49-4604/

3.) Xavier had trusted Magneto before, Rogue trusted Magneto. Considering the fire power Magneto could bring to protecting Utopia and the remaining mutants? Yeah.

4.) Storm supported the creation of Utopia. There were no other alternatives given. He can't just go to Africa without an invitation of Asylum and moving 200 people at once that far would be logistically impossible even for Marvel.

5.) No other options on the table. She was the only one there who could even stand a chance.

6.) It was only isolationist during Siege, because of Norman Osbourne and during Age of X because of Legion's reality warping. The X-men often aided San Francisco and fought for their safety, like when the Celestials came knocking and Cyclops stood up for them, he could've just stayed in Utopia.

7.) They didn't have any countermeasures, Tony Stark's one idea to shoot the Phoenix Force backfired and empowered the Phoenix 5. He even admits in AvX 12 he had no way of stopping or countering the Phoenix. This is explicit, there was no way to stop the Phoenix.

8.) Uhhh yeah you can, when the UN goes into wartorn regions and inforces DMZs? Sorta like North and South Korea.

9.) They had kidnapped Hope by that time, he wanted to bring Hope back to Utopia and reignite the phoenix in her to have her restore mutantkind. Everywhere he attacked was to get Hope back.

10.) Uncanny X-men shows more details and dialogue than AvX. We see what they're thinking in that series.

11.) By AvX 11, Cyclops had still killed no one and healed Hawkeye when he was immolated. Real batshit crazy there!

#35 Posted by antemiusenteri (239 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone can say cyclops was right and he killed Xavier in self defense and "his the real mutant messiah " and so on and so on but the important thing here , and something i'v been looking forward to for such a long time is Scott Summers AKA Cyclops and his white bimbo are no longer the leaders of the X-men , he is out (hopefully for a while ) of the mutant race proverbial office so he can be right all he want , his not ordering or leading anyone , and that can not be argued away.

#36 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@antemiusenteri: Emma isn't a bimbo, she's rather smart. And no one cares if he's not "leading" mutants anymore. No one is anymore, there are too many mutants.

#37 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

@antemiusenteri: Emma isn't a bimbo, she's rather smart. And no one cares if he's not "leading" mutants anymore. No one is anymore, there are too many mutants.

I'd say Scott should think of his "imprisonment" as a well deserved vacation.

#38 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@antemiusenteri: She isn't a bimbo in the slightest. She's highly intelligent had 5 relationships in her life and being almost 30 which can be normal. And she's been faithful to Scott when in her right mind shoving Namor away when he kept advancing. The only time she "caved" was under the influence of the Phoenix Force and she even came clean about it crying to him. Emma isn't a bimbo in the slightest and saying so is just ignorance on her character.

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#39 Posted by Rickbarry (1762 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: That's a pretty spot on assessment of Emma. I don't see where folks can get the bimbo vibe aside from the blonde hair. *Shrugs.*

I'll finish this. *Righteous Optic Blast.* How long is he going to be in lame Avengers jail?

#40 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@maki0129: You do realize Cable specifically told Cyclops to protect Hope, because she needed to get the Phoenix in order for the world to be saved, right? None of the Avengers have ever had anything to do with the Phoenix and continued to poke Scott with a stick until he broke. This is exactly what the Hellfire Club did to Jean.

Scarlet Witch directly and indirectly ended the lives of tens of thousands of mutants in the blink of an eye.

You know, if Cable, the time-traveling father of Hope were to tell me that in order for not only the mutant-race to be saved, but for all of mankind to be saved that the Phoenix needed to be put within his daughter, I wouldn't ignore Cyclops/Cable, who clearly have far more experience than ANY Avenger with the Phoenix and shoot it with a laser, hoping to destroy the embodiment of life and death. The Phoenix was going to Earth, regardless if Hope was put on the moon or not.

Let' see. Oh, also Rachel was there too. Someone who had control of the Phoenix for nearly a decade?

The only thing you should take from AvX is that the Avengers are massive idiots, and this was one of the worst written events to ever be produced by Marvel.

#41 Posted by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

mutants should name a day after Scott, did so much for them then anyone I can think of

#42 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2809 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by Pyrogram (36379 posts) - - Show Bio

I am loling so hard, if some of you think cyclops broke no laws your idiots.

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#44 Posted by royers13 (46 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pyrogram: Name One law that Cyclops broke. Name one that he specifically broke if you can. The Avengers declared war on the sovereign nation of Utopia, to kidnap one of its citizens. Then when that nation resisted the avengers intended to imprison all of them. Then a cosmic force gives Cyclops enough power to bring paradise on earth, and he does, making the world happy.  
 
People, illegally attacked the Nation that he was in charge of. So yeah, it makes sense that he chased around the ones who did it and imprisoned him. Kind of sounds familiar if your from the United States.
 
He was trying to find and bring back a citizen of his nation that had been taken, which countries do quite often.
 
He did not kill a single person until he was attacked with full force by the most powerful beings on earth, even by those he held closest too him. You think that might cause someone to mentally snap?
 
Hell, he didn't break any laws until he was pushed over the edge by a fearful group of super-powered people. And even when that is the case, he is willing to accept responsibility for the actions of his subordinates, who were the ones that you could say had committed crimes against humanity..
 
So in comparison to Cyclops breaking the law, CA broke far more. 
 
Short list of CA's list of crimes:
 
1. Bringing an army of Earth's mightiest heroes into a Sovereign nation and making demands.
 
2. Assaulting that Nation, Which is known often as a declaration War.
 
3. Attempting to kidnap a member of that nation.
 
4. Attempting to Imprison all the people of that Nation
 
5. Lead the Avengers as a Terrorist group to try and dismantle the peace that had been established, by the people that the world had been praising for you know, making earth into a paradise.
 
If Captain America is a representative of the United states of America, he should be tried as a war criminal, because he started a war on a sovereign nation without Senate giving approval. 
 
I mean seriously, The US and Soviet Union never went to war because if either attacked there was a high chance that a button would be pressed. In the long run, all Captain America did was force Cyclops to push it. Cyclops was stable up until that final battle.
 
So I now dare you. Tell me what laws Cyclops broke.
#45 Posted by Pyrogram (36379 posts) - - Show Bio

@royers13 I admit captain broke laws to.

But cyclops broke these laws, Murder against professor X - its still murder even in self defense. He will still have to technically go to court.

War crimes - His action directly or indirectly got wakanda attacked.

Treason - attacking the USA - Was he still an american citizen or not?

You said cyclops broke no laws until - so you admit he broke laws.

He committed assault against members of the avengers in non-self defense. Kidnap against members of the avengers. So false imprisonment against a US Citizen.

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#46 Posted by tahmidk (283 posts) - - Show Bio

oh my fucking gosh, just read avx 12, exactly like civil war. Tony Stark was clearly the villain, yet at the end they try and put some kind of spin on it to make him the hero?! cyclops was doing the right thing, but then he was corrupted by the phoenix. avengers are self righteous assholes, in my opinion cyclops was a hero

#47 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

@antemiusenteri said:

Everyone can say cyclops was right and he killed Xavier in self defense and "his the real mutant messiah " and so on and so on but the important thing here , and something i'v been looking forward to for such a long time is Scott Summers AKA Cyclops and his white bimbo are no longer the leaders of the X-men , he is out (hopefully for a while ) of the mutant race proverbial office so he can be right all he want , his not ordering or leading anyone , and that can not be argued away.

Being a mutant is hardly even a thing any more, there all just superhumans now. Avengers that happen to have an X-Gene

#48 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

I hear alot of back and forth about Utopia being a soverign nation. Can anyone provide any kind of proof one way or the other? I genuinely curious.

#49 Posted by royers13 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram:

Ok, so I don't know where you get your ideals of law from. The avengers declared war. So when you are a soldier in war and someone is attacking you, chances are you are going to kill them. Heck, I'm from Arizona, if someone is threatening your safety and you give them ample warning that you will shoot them, if they do not stop, you have full legal rights to shoot to kill. He killed professor X in self defense, NOT MURDER!!! especially in times of armed conflict.

The USA actively took action against them, So while i guess you can say he has duel citizenship he is the leader of a sovereign nation who responded to actions taken against Utopia.

Yeah I say until, because when you snap under the power of the Phoenix you don't really have any form of control.

And again, considering it as a war again, Wakanda was harboring enemies. Look at the United States again, when we have the power to do so we go in with force and weapons if Enemies of the state are being harbored there.

and you say false imprisonment of the Avengers and how they did not attack in self defense? Ok, again, the avengers attacked them first and sparked the whole event. After the Phoenix 5 had actually saved a few of the Avengers lives, The avengers broke into utopia again and took Hope. So again, if you seriously think that they did the whole false imprisonment and assault charge thing. Then I guess we should arrest the entire United States Military.

#50 Posted by Pyrogram (36379 posts) - - Show Bio

@royers13 said:

@Pyrogram:

Ok, so I don't know where you get your ideals of law from. The avengers declared war. So when you are a soldier in war and someone is attacking you, chances are you are going to kill them. Heck, I'm from Arizona, if someone is threatening your safety and you give them ample warning that you will shoot them, if they do not stop, you have full legal rights to shoot to kill. He killed professor X in self defense, NOT MURDER!!! especially in times of armed conflict.

The USA actively took action against them, So while i guess you can say he has duel citizenship he is the leader of a sovereign nation who responded to actions taken against Utopia.

Yeah I say until, because when you snap under the power of the Phoenix you don't really have any form of control.

And again, considering it as a war again, Wakanda was harboring enemies. Look at the United States again, when we have the power to do so we go in with force and weapons if Enemies of the state are being harbored there.

and you say false imprisonment of the Avengers and how they did not attack in self defense? Ok, again, the avengers attacked them first and sparked the whole event. After the Phoenix 5 had actually saved a few of the Avengers lives, The avengers broke into utopia again and took Hope. So again, if you seriously think that they did the whole false imprisonment and assault charge thing. Then I guess we should arrest the entire United States Military.

I PM;d you the other thing without realizing as well.

If you say no laws are broken you have no idea of the law, and if we use law in the UK he committed murder. He is not a US citizen so cant use self defecne as a defence, and if he is a US citizen its treason to fight the GOV, so he comits eitherway.

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