The New Role and Direction for Cyclops and the X-Men

#201 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@BransonHuggins said:

This whole thing with the mutants is getting to be a little bit stale, no matter what. Look, it makes no sense that they would continue to be in a world that held this much prejudice openly for this long. And they know it too. Hence the need to have some huge big mutant scare that would get all the people back on the side of hate, and give Cyclops and the X-Men an excuse to be hated and persecuted again. Marvel really needs to do us all a favor and move on. The X-Men could be so much more then a continues re-hash of the same "bigotry is bad" message. We get it, it's bad. I'm not saying the real world still doesn't have these issues, we clearly do, but I am saying that in the context of the comic world, it is time to move forward instead of continuing to go backwards to the same key plot points over and over. Just wait, eventually Bendis will make Magneto whole sale evil again too (I kid, but honestly it wouldn't shock me), maybe Emma will go back to being the White Queen (and not this tame, "I'm a good guy version either, or her Gen X incarnation, no I mean straight up Hellfire Club awesomness).

I think your missing the point here. If it was only a matter of non-mutants calling mutants ignorant names and being bigoted that would be one thing, but they live in a world in which humans use institutional power to subordinate, annihilate, enslave and ghettoize mutants. This is going far beyond bigotry and has more to do with apartheid and genocide. You cannot expect mutant kind to just "move on" in a world where this normally happens and not do anything to put themselves in a position where humanity cannot put them under their thumb. If humanity wants to whine about being afraid of mutants or not liking the change in the world that's going to come with their existence that's one thing, but mutants are not obligated to sacrifice their freedom and well being to accommodate humanity's fears and anxieties, or to even care about them for that matter.

#202 Posted by 80sBaby (1347 posts) - - Show Bio

I would really like to see a concentrated effort by mutants to be accepted into the world as equals. I don't think that angle has ever really been explored. I doubt we'll see that as it goes against the entire premise of mutants and the X-Men but it'd be different.

#203 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@soduh2 said:

@Dernman: "Hey I know you are perfectly happy with who you are now but sorry you should have been a mutant and I'm going to change you whether you like it or not. What you want doesn't matter because I know better then you and I'm right."

You can't blame Cyclops for what person had their X-genes activated. You can't even blame Scarlet Witch or Hope. The Phoenix "chose" who would get the genes activated. You don't have to be a Cyclops supporter to understand that.

Cyclops didn't know if it was going to be the PF, the host, or a combination of the two. Heck we're still not sure how much influence was involved in the parties. We don't even know if people were picked and it wasn't just some blanket use of the power and see what sticks to who. Cyclops didn't even care about none of that. All he cared about was restarting the mutant race and if the PF didn't come he would have done it another way. You honestly think that Cyke wouldn't have still activated the mutant gene if he could stop the PF and couldn't choose? He refused to even consider any other option but doing what he did and was practically begging for the PF to come. Cyclops didn't even know at first about the PF until she came back. He only believe she would ignite the gene. You honestly tell me that while all this was going on the Cyclops didn't figure that people who didn't want it were going to get activated? That not only didn't try to prevent it but went out of is way to make sure it happened? Why because they don't count as people because the gene isn't activated? EDIT: To to mention making the decision for all the future babies that will change once they hit puberty.

There was no reason to think Cyclops was actively concerned about restoring the Mutants until the time period leading up to Avengers vs X-men. Before that he was resistant to even think about the Phoenix until Cable brought it up in X-sanction. Cyclops' primary concern was (and has always been) the protection and strengthening of the mutant race. If he really cared about restoring the mutant population prior to this storyline he would have been more willing to cooperate with Scarlet Witch (as opposed to bringing her to justice).

#204 Edited by Dernman (15264 posts) - - Show Bio
@soduh2

There was no reason to think Cyclops was actively concerned about restoring the Mutants until the time period leading up to Avengers vs X-men. 

Gonna call bull on that one.  It was always one of his priorities since the moment of depowering even more so since Hopes birth. Just because he was also dealing with other things doesn't mean he wasn't actively concerned about that.

  Before that he was resistant to even think about the Phoenix until Cable brought it up in X-sanction. 

 That's simply not true at all and if it was (which it isn't) shows negligence on his part.
 

  Cyclops' primary concern was (and has always been ) the protection and strengthening of the mutant race. If he really cared about restoring the mutant population prior to this storyline he would have been more willing to cooperate with Scarlet Witch (as opposed to bringing her to justice)

Again not true. One of he primary concerns was always to reignite the the mutant race to continue it's survival. The reason he didn't want Wanda's help is because of a combination of not trusting her,  she could only do it on a one on one bases and there for not making much of a  difference in the existence of mutants species, and he had a mad on for making sure she paid.
#205 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@soduh2:

There was no reason to think Cyclops was actively concerned about restoring the Mutants until the time period leading up to Avengers vs X-men.

Gonna call bull on that one. It was always one of his priorities since the moment of depowering even more so since Hopes birth. Just because he was also dealing with other things doesn't mean he wasn't actively concerned about that.

Before that he was resistant to even think about the Phoenix until Cable brought it up in X-sanction.

That's simply not true at all and if it was (which it isn't) shows negligence on his part.

Cyclops' primary concern was (and has always been ) the protection and strengthening of the mutant race. If he really cared about restoring the mutant population prior to this storyline he would have been more willing to cooperate with Scarlet Witch (as opposed to bringing her to justice)

Again not true. One of he primary concerns was always to reignite the the mutant race to continue it's survival. The reason he didn't want Wanda's help is because of a combination of not trusting her, she could only do it on a one on one bases and there for not making much of a difference in the existence of mutants species, and he had a mad on for making sure she paid.

The five lights showed that Mutant numbers were "increasing" now while we can agree that Cyclops (and other X-men) would like an opportunity for the mutant race to be restored to the pre-house of M population Cyclops was never actively working toward that goal. Before schism he was primarily concerned with the protection of the mutant race, and after schism he had his original goal as well as establishing the premere Mutant Superhero team (X-stinction team). The mutant race being restored had to have been at most a number three on his list of priorities before X-sanction.

Quote from X-sanction:

Cyclops: "Nathan, I've always believed in you--even in hope-- that she was or will be the Messiah for the mutant race.But... the phoenix force-- there's so much we don't under stand and so much I've-- we've lost because of it."

Around 12:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDiRk5NlaaM

#206 Posted by Dernman (15264 posts) - - Show Bio
@soduh2:

  The five lights showed that Mutant numbers were "increasing" now while we can agree that Cyclops (and other X-men) would like an opportunity for the mutant race to be restored to the pre-house of M population Cyclops was never actively working toward that goal.

Wrong in the sense beast said the numbers were not enough to sustain the species and they would still die out and making sure it would be was too actively on minds. Just because they didn't have ideas to act on doesn't mean it wasn't. 

Before schism he was primarily concerned with the protection of the mutant race, and after schism he had his original goal as well as establishing the premere Mutant Superhero team (X-stinction team) 

No Just because you don't see him in a lab somewhere working on it, or some adventure does not mean it wasn't a primary concern. He is a leader of the mutant race with many mutants he works with to act on his behalf some of which he knows could be better off taking point one his primary goals..  


 Quote from X-sanction:

Cyclops: "Nathan, I've always believed in you--even in hope-- that she was or will be the Messiah for the mutant race.But... the phoenix force-- there's so much we don't under stand and so much I've-- we've lost because of it." 


Having concerns about how to use it doesn't mean he's resistant to using it or think about it. He's just worried about handling it right. If anything the quote supports what I'm saying.
#207 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

Having concerns about how to use it doesn't mean he's resistant to using it or think about it. He's just worried about handling it right. If anything the quote supports what I'm saying.

Here you are definitely splitting hairs, I'm not even giving you the entitled to a different opinion speech, you are REACHING a lot if you think this quote supports you in the slightest. Cable had to reassure him and make him promise (as a father promises a son) to go through with it. There is nothing in that quote that supports you, at all. Not unless you know the writers and they were telling you what the characters were thinking, all we have is a justifiably cautious Cyclops being reassured by his son from the future.

No Just because you don't see him in a lab somewhere working on it, or some adventure does not mean it wasn't a primary concern. He is a leader of the mutant race with many mutants he works with to act on his behalf some of which he knows could be better off taking point one his primary goals..

We can only go by the actions and statements of the characters. All of the mutants would love an opportunity for the restoration of the mutant race (which is why a lot of them followed Cyclops instead of Wolverine at the beginning). You're the one making assumptions here.

Wrong in the sense beast said the numbers were not enough to sustain the species and they would still die out and making sure it would be was too actively on minds. Just because they didn't have ideas to act on doesn't mean it wasn't.

Like I said, at most it was number three on on their priority. But you cannot blame Cyclops for the way the Phoenix decided who would be restored or the fact that the phoenix was coming in the first place. Or the unsubstantiated claim that Cyclops would "probably" come up with a "similar" plan to force the phoenix on to unwilling holders of the X-gene.

#208 Posted by Kurolegacy (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimlim said:

Couldn't resist doing this up!

That combined with the body gesture and new costume tuned to Bachalo's art makes that seem more sinister than inviting.

#209 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4853 posts) - - Show Bio
I am personally Happy for Cyke, and where he is going. I think him being the New Magneto is AWEsome plus having Magneto himself follow Scott is Dope.  I wish him the best may he protect all the mutants, but hopefully never crosses the line any further.  He Was Right  ( + )
#210 Posted by Perfect 10 (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

@blur1528: where can i get it? i so want that as a t-shirt

#211 Posted by Perfect 10 (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT! let the revolution begin. we are finally getting back on track. now we just need jean grey to come back and all will be right with the wrold. MUTANTS RULE AND HUMANS ARE SUCH A BORE.

X

#212 Posted by SUNMAN (7262 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure I like the next costume. But its certainly a ballsy move to have Cyclops straight up executing and torturing people now

#213 Posted by JohnnyGat (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kurolegacy said:

@slimlim said:

Couldn't resist doing this up!

That combined with the body gesture and new costume tuned to Bachalo's art makes that seem more sinister than inviting.

I can help with that. His new mask doubles as 3D glasses and he's watching the Avengers in 3D and Cyke is like, I don't like these guys but damn is this 3D thing so real. You can tell by the grin on his face he's reaching out during a Black Widow scene.

#214 Posted by slimlim (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyGat: "My precciiooouusssss..."

#215 Posted by slimlim (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Perfect 10: i did the artwork, but its not prepped for t-shirt printing. not yet anyway ;)

#216 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually liked him in X-Factor and X-Men in the 80's and 90's. I'm not sure I like how his character has been since the melding with Apocalypse. Some stuff I do like but he just seems like a totally different character now. Wolverine acts more like Cyclops [then] than Cyclops himself does now. Does that sound right?

#217 Posted by kid Apollo (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@ozeol: welcome to the AGE OF CYCLOPS

Online
#218 Posted by Kurolegacy (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis said:

I actually liked him in X-Factor and X-Men in the 80's and 90's. I'm not sure I like how his character has been since the melding with Apocalypse. Some stuff I do like but he just seems like a totally different character now. Wolverine acts more like Cyclops [then] than Cyclops himself does now. Does that sound right?

Yea and it makes sense considering in Consequences 4 Wolverine admitted that Scott gave him a role model that even to the day he follows asking himself 'What would Scott Summers do?'

#219 Posted by csl316 (170 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem said:

@csl316 said:

@kadeem said:

@RoastedRay said:

I think it would be interesting to see them fade out magneto. See him die and then have Wolverine and Cyclops be the new "Xavier and Magneto"

I think it would also be interesting if Cyclops became too much of a fanatic dicator and terrorist, and Magneto had to step up as the leader of the X-Men to stop him.

Now that's something potentially awesome.

Cyclops to me will always be the dork in the 90's cartoon, but it's nice to see him change in such profound ways.

There are people think that Cyclops's new direction is out of character for him but that is not how I read it. If we look at Scott's characterization he up until recently had a reputation for being a boy scout. His powers were of a destructive nature, and he developed them relatively early in his child hood compared to most mutants. On top of this Scott's optic blasts did not have a true off switch like most mutants' powers, so he had no real choice in rather or not he wanted to live a strictly self regulated life or not. If he didn't his powers could kill those around them so he grew up to be kind of anal about rules and protocol.

When he was learning to be disciplined with his powers who did he learn discipline from? None other than Prof. X, who with the lessons in self regulation also instilled in Scott Xavier's moral, philosophical and political beliefs. These occurrences had a deep impact on the formation of Cyclops's personality. The good soldier boy was formed from the mix of Xavier's indoctrination and his fear of hurting others with his powers if he lack self control. When more recently it became apparent that Xavier has been manipulative with his own team, and that Xavier's ideals failed to help the condition of mutants, it in essence devastated Cyclops's sense of person hood. Realizing that being the obedient boy scout and political idealist was not going to make the world better off, he evolved into the Cyclops we see today that is much more critical and actively involved with the direction of the world through more radical means. What do you guys think though?

Very cool synopsis. It's like figuring out you've been following a pointless lie. Maybe not that extreme, but I can see how it would affect him so.

#220 Posted by frogjitsu (481 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really get the whole, "Wolverine and Cyclops are the new Xavier and Magneto" idea. Wolverine and Cyclops are more alike now in there ideals than ever before, and more than Xavier and Magneto ever were. Both Logan and Scott believe in Xavier's dream, but take it upon themselves to fight the hard battles and proactively defend mutants to ensure there survival. They are like two sides of the same coin really.

#221 Posted by imblackjames (275 posts) - - Show Bio

Idk maybe im alone on this one but i dont think cyclops is at all at fault for AvX i think it was captain americas fault. cyclops had a good thing going for the earth then cap decided he wasnt having it causing cyclops to retaliate....

#222 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@imblackjames said:

Idk maybe im alone on this one but i dont think cyclops is at all at fault for AvX i think it was captain americas fault. cyclops had a good thing going for the earth then cap decided he wasnt having it causing cyclops to retaliate....

I think there is even more validity to this point then what your post says. Remember that most of his time as an Avenger, Captain America did absolutely nothing to help mutants out of their oppression. The Cap. even admitted to it when Cyclops called him out on it. When the government passed the Mutant Registration Act, Captain America did absolutely nothing to oppose it. If you recall though during the Civil War story arc when the government passed the Super Human Registration Act, Captain America was all of a sudden willing to go as far as to organize a super powered military resistance against the government when it affected someone like him. In some ways though I think Steve Rodger's is very much like the old Scott Summers. Old Summer's and Rodger's both allowed themselves to be defined by a particular form of indoctrination. Had Steve Rodger's been a mutant child from Magneto's Genosha, I bet that the comics we would read about him would be about him defending freedom by leading an elite group of mutant heroes known as The Brotherhood of Mutants from villains like The Avengers to defend mutant kind under the name General Genosha. Now that I think about it that is one "What If?" story I would read. Do you read what went on in Cyclops & Captain America's character history any differently though?

@csl316 said:

@kadeem said:

@csl316 said:

@kadeem said:

@RoastedRay said:

I think it would be interesting to see them fade out magneto. See him die and then have Wolverine and Cyclops be the new "Xavier and Magneto"

I think it would also be interesting if Cyclops became too much of a fanatic dicator and terrorist, and Magneto had to step up as the leader of the X-Men to stop him.

Now that's something potentially awesome.

Cyclops to me will always be the dork in the 90's cartoon, but it's nice to see him change in such profound ways.

There are people think that Cyclops's new direction is out of character for him but that is not how I read it. If we look at Scott's characterization he up until recently had a reputation for being a boy scout. His powers were of a destructive nature, and he developed them relatively early in his child hood compared to most mutants. On top of this Scott's optic blasts did not have a true off switch like most mutants' powers, so he had no real choice in rather or not he wanted to live a strictly self regulated life or not. If he didn't his powers could kill those around them so he grew up to be kind of anal about rules and protocol.

When he was learning to be disciplined with his powers who did he learn discipline from? None other than Prof. X, who with the lessons in self regulation also instilled in Scott Xavier's moral, philosophical and political beliefs. These occurrences had a deep impact on the formation of Cyclops's personality. The good soldier boy was formed from the mix of Xavier's indoctrination and his fear of hurting others with his powers if he lack self control. When more recently it became apparent that Xavier has been manipulative with his own team, and that Xavier's ideals failed to help the condition of mutants, it in essence devastated Cyclops's sense of person hood. Realizing that being the obedient boy scout and political idealist was not going to make the world better off, he evolved into the Cyclops we see today that is much more critical and actively involved with the direction of the world through more radical means. What do you guys think though?

Very cool synopsis. It's like figuring out you've been following a pointless lie. Maybe not that extreme, but I can see how it would affect him so.

Do you have an opinion about how Scott's new direction has effected his relationship with Emma?

#223 Posted by God_Spawn (38138 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem:

Do you have an opinion about how Scott's new direction has effected his relationship with Emma?

Their relationship is over. Bendis has said so himself and has already written the break up for the new Uncanny X-Force book.

Moderator
#224 Posted by blastaar (110 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine who? Cyclops is way cooler atm.

Let's hope for MORE books about Cyclops and LESS about Wolverine.

#225 Posted by Agypt2020 (60 posts) - - Show Bio

Another Marvel Now blunder. oh how I miss the old days of Stan Lee and Chris Claremont and the crew. Change and new perspectives in Mutant coexistence with Humans. Why Jean is so instrumental as a conscious to Scott, he is not Wolverine and they f***ked him up to! So back to original Cyclops and what he truly believes in Xavier's Dream and nothing less.

#226 Posted by Impala (264 posts) - - Show Bio

STOP WITH THAT STUPID XAVIER DREAM, HE IS DEAD AND HIS DREAM IS DEAD. WHY SHOULD SOMEONE FOLLOW OTHERS DREAMS WHEN HE GOT HIS OWN

#227 Posted by Dernman (15264 posts) - - Show Bio
@soduh2: If you're going to reply to me at least use the reply button or quote so I know or was that your intention? 

Here you are definitely splitting hairs, I'm not even giving you the entitled to a different opinion speech, you are REACHING a lot if you think this quote supports you in the slightest. Cable had to reassure him and make him promise (as a father promises a son) to go through with it. There is nothing in that quote that supports you, at all. Not unless you know the writers and they were telling you what the characters were thinking, all we have is a justifiably cautious Cyclops being reassured by his son from the future.

No I wasn't splitting hairs. It was clear and I don't need your permission nor would I call for a difference of opinion. Nor was I reaching. It's clear what he meant and you're just plain wrong. 
Also it did so support one of my point which was he believed before hand what she and it was going to do. Which was reactivate the X Gene. 

We can only go by the actions and statements of the characters. All of the mutants would love an opportunity for the restoration of the mutant race (which is why a lot of them followed Cyclops instead of Wolverine at the beginning). You're the one making assumptions here. 


No I'm not.  They made small mentions to it. We also know about when Beast was studying Hope to see how she was different and in what way she would restore the race.That's not an assumption. Not to mention IIRC when they were raiding sinister's labs. It's not a huge assumption just because they are not showing it every single issue. The assumption is that they weren't. 

Like I said, at most it was number three on on their priority. But you cannot blame Cyclops for the way the Phoenix decided who would be restored or the fact that the phoenix was coming in the first place. Or the unsubstantiated claim that Cyclops would "probably" come up with a "similar" plan to force the phoenix on to unwilling holders of the X-gene. 

And like I said your wrong. I've already addressed this. The strength and survival of their species was always one of their top priorities. You've failed to support your argument.  

  But you cannot blame Cyclops for the way the Phoenix decided who would be restored or the fact that the phoenix was coming in the first place. Or the unsubstantiated claim that Cyclops would "probably" come up with a "similar" plan to force the phoenix on to unwilling holders of the X-gene.


I have already addressed why I can blame Cyclops or the hosts. In an earlier post.

 

Cyclops didn't know if it was going to be the PF, the host, or a combination of the two. Heck we're still not sure how much influence was involved in the parties. We don't even know if people were picked and it wasn't just some blanket use of the power and see what sticks to who. Cyclops didn't even care about none of that. All he cared about was restarting the mutant race and if the PF didn't come he would have done it another way. You honestly think that Cyke wouldn't have still activated the mutant gene if he could stop the PF and couldn't choose? He refused to even consider any other option but doing what he did and was practically begging for the PF to come.    Cyclops didn't even know at first about the PF until she came back. He only believe she would ignite the gene.  You honestly tell me that while all this was going on the Cyclops didn't figure that people who didn't want it were going to get activated? That not only didn't try to prevent it but went out of is way to make sure it happened?      Why because they don't count as people because the gene isn't activated?    EDIT:

 To to mention making the decision for all the future babies that will change once they hit puberty.

 The only unsubstantiated claim is the hosts didn't have any influence on the PF when they have in fact been shown to have influence.  

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