The one unjustifiable mistake Cyclops made in this event was withholding the information he received from Cable. This could have altered the course of this event, let the Avengers know about Cable's bad future. Though it's difficult to tell whether or not they would have listened to Cable's warning after he tried to kill Captain America, Iron Man, and the Falcon.

What about when he killed Professor X?

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

He had the phoenix force. Scott was talking to Jean Grey about something feeling "off" when he only had 1/5 of the Phoenix force, he certainly did not have control when the entire phoenix was within him.

@McKlayn said:

Really? Dude Cyclops went to Captain America when the witch went crazy before house of M, was all like she needs to be brought to justice blah blah, hes all like

"She's a Avenger we will handle it"

No other explanation just the respect and trust of Cyclops. Cap shows up says basically the same thing, gets the same reply but that's not enough. he can shove that shield up his ass he deserved to get his head optic blasted off

This.

@frozenedge said:

Cap would've given him the whole "Are we sure the future Cable saw was our definite, sure as hell gonna happen future or just one possible future out of many" speech. Which he isn't wrong to think considering all the alternate and possible future crap everybody in Marvel has been through

Some form of collaboration would've helped, however, all Cap could think was to just watch the X-Men more closely.

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

@xeon1cs said:

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

So he has the power over reality itself and he can't think of a way to stop Xavier other than killing him?

@fodigg said:

@xeon1cs said:

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

So he has the power over reality itself and he can't think of a way to stop Xavier other than killing him?

"Think" while your mind is being driven by a cosmic entity.

@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:

And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.

Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.

Right, so it follows that he genuinely wanted the Phoenix, at least initially when all five got it, so he's responsible for any actions committed while empowered by the Phoenix Force whether it was influencing him or not.

Edit: If Scott got drunk off his ass and ran over Xavier in a car he'd be no less responsible for killing him, is my argument.

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:

And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.

Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.

Well, Cyclops claimed that something felt "off" when he only had 1/5th of the phoenix force. The Avengers actions (taking out Namor, Colossus, and Magik) gradually increased the amount of phoenix he had inside of him. While he took the rest of the Phoenix for himself AFTER he, unwillingly mind you, gained half of it.

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: No, he didn't ask for the power, Tony Stark accidentally gave it to him.

If you're drugged without your consent you're not liable for what you do under that drug's influence.

True, and that's what I would argue happened if I were Scott's legal counsel, but it could be countered the pursuit of additional power after that initial indicated quite clearly that he wanted the power and took it willingly, if not forcefully, and his own testimony would support that. Even if you argued that his desire for more power was influenced by the initial taste, it's not like addicts and alcoholics are given a pass when they go out for more drug to feed their habit. They're still culpable.

@aaunderoath said:

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.

Right, so it follows that he genuinely wanted the Phoenix, at least initially when all five got it, so he's responsible for any actions committed while empowered by the Phoenix Force whether it was influencing him or not.

Edit: If Scott got drunk off his ass and ran over Xavier in a car he'd be no less responsible for killing him, is my argument.

Exactly, except the same rules should apply to Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, Magik, Colossus, Namor, Magneto, Quicksilver, Spider-Woman, Pym, Venom, Kaine, etc. But they don't, every other person in the Marvel universe who is now a hero that has at one point or another been the cause for the lose of innocent lives, whether it be mind control, outside entity, or their own creation(ultron), they should be facing the same consequences as Cyclops. But they aren't Cyclops is the first person to take the rap for "not being of sound mind". Hell even Steve Rogers was "possessed" by Red Skull during Cap Reborn but a simple "whoa woops I wasn't in control" was good enough. Yet Cyclops isn't even posing a defense, HE accepts that stuff went down when he wasn't in control so he's doing his time, no complaints. He was right in that the Phoenix could jump start the mutant population and he was also right that the Avengers never helped them when they needed it.

Not all those things are synonymous. I'd hardly rate mind control and unforeseen consequences with insanity, let alone willing possession. However, I would agree that Scarlet Witch getting a pass was ridiculous.

@soduh2 said:

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:

And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.

Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.

Well, Cyclops claimed that something felt "off" when he only had 1/5th of the phoenix force. The Avengers actions (taking out Namor, Colossus, and Magik) gradually increased the amount of phoenix he had inside of him. While he took the rest of the Phoenix for himself AFTER he, unwillingly mind you, gained half of it.

Not a bad point except that by pointing out he felt that he was being influenced even as early as when he'd just received 1/5th power and didn't seek help proves he was aware of the danger and is culpable.

---

Edit: To be clear to all three of you, I think the whole event was crap and that ever major character (e.g., Scott, Logan, Storm, Emma, Cap) was written horribly out of character. I'm just arguing that, as written, Scott is the clear bad guy who did bad stuff and is responsible for that. But I wouldn't defend the quality of that writing.

@fodigg: "Not a bad point except that by pointing out he felt that he was being influenced even as early as when he'd just received 1/5th power and didn't seek help proves he was aware of the danger and is culpable."

Technically he did seek help when he created the echo of Jean Grey. But also by creating the echo, seeking help, it showed that he still lacked his humanity. Sort of an inception sort of way, Cyclops' methods of mantaining his humanity showed how far from it he was. Also looking at the dinner he and Emma were eating while the Avengers were fighting them.

sorry the middle picture didnt show up

@allthatsgeek: Honestly....like Wolverine is some saint now.

@McKlayn said:

ok as a big big supporter of Cyclops ima try not to get into the who did what when where, Scott did some actions you could say he shouldn't depending on how you look at them. in the comic though HE ADMITS THAT, and accepts whatever punishment.

SO WHY ON EARTH can't they make Cap admit he was just as wrong, that he helped to push him over the top and that HE COULD OF handled things better.

and no not that lame line "We should of helped mutants more" cause as much as that is true, its not the only thing you screwed up on. For god sakes admit your at least 50 percent responsible for all the deaths caused by the Phoenix in the last battle, it's this type of writing of Him and Wolverine that makes me and many other readers absolutely hate them and not care what Cyclops did, he was right and they need to stfu.

Because if Cap admits he was wrong, everything about their new flagship Uncanny Avengers title would crumble into pieces.