Something Cyclops supporters (like myself) need to admit:

  • 121 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

The one unjustifiable mistake Cyclops made in this event was withholding the information he received from Cable. This could have altered the course of this event, let the Avengers know about Cable's bad future. Though it's difficult to tell whether or not they would have listened to Cable's warning after he tried to kill Captain America, Iron Man, and the Falcon.

#2 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Once the Avengers set their minds to something , you already know what next , regardless of!

#3 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2: There's the whole "Can I even trust Avengers, the guys that never help us out, regardless of us coming and fighting THEIR war against Norman Osborn,"

#4 Posted by fodigg (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

What about when he killed Professor X?

#5 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

He had the phoenix force. Scott was talking to Jean Grey about something feeling "off" when he only had 1/5 of the Phoenix force, he certainly did not have control when the entire phoenix was within him.

#6 Posted by trutrutru (51 posts) - - Show Bio

kind of irrelevant as far as im concerned. wouldnt have changed a thing

#7 Posted by God_Spawn (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

@trutrutru said:

kind of irrelevant as far as im concerned. wouldnt have changed a thing

Yup.

Moderator
#8 Posted by God_Spawn (37294 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops: Cap, I have to tell you something Cable told me.

Cap: You mean the guy that just tried to kill all of us?

Cyke: Yeah...

Moderator
#9 Posted by McKlayn (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? Dude Cyclops went to Captain America when the witch went crazy before house of M, was all like she needs to be brought to justice blah blah, hes all like

"She's a Avenger we will handle it"

No other explanation just the respect and trust of Cyclops. Cap shows up says basically the same thing, gets the same reply but that's not enough. he can shove that shield up his ass he deserved to get his head optic blasted off

#10 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@trutrutru said:

kind of irrelevant as far as im concerned. wouldnt have changed a thing

pretty much

#11 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn said:

Really? Dude Cyclops went to Captain America when the witch went crazy before house of M, was all like she needs to be brought to justice blah blah, hes all like

"She's a Avenger we will handle it"

No other explanation just the respect and trust of Cyclops. Cap shows up says basically the same thing, gets the same reply but that's not enough. he can shove that shield up his ass he deserved to get his head optic blasted off

This.

#12 Posted by lorex (945 posts) - - Show Bio

Once Captain America showed up with the Avengers to force Cyclops to give up Hope it was too late from then on to talk about it.

#13 Posted by frozenedge (1142 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap would've given him the whole "Are we sure the future Cable saw was our definite, sure as hell gonna happen future or just one possible future out of many" speech. Which he isn't wrong to think considering all the alternate and possible future crap everybody in Marvel has been through

#14 Posted by samuel_larson_10 (283 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn said:

Really? Dude Cyclops went to Captain America when the witch went crazy before house of M, was all like she needs to be brought to justice blah blah, hes all like

"She's a Avenger we will handle it"

No other explanation just the respect and trust of Cyclops. Cap shows up says basically the same thing, gets the same reply but that's not enough. he can shove that shield up his ass he deserved to get his head optic blasted off

yeah x men should have handled it

#15 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozenedge said:

Cap would've given him the whole "Are we sure the future Cable saw was our definite, sure as hell gonna happen future or just one possible future out of many" speech. Which he isn't wrong to think considering all the alternate and possible future crap everybody in Marvel has been through

Some form of collaboration would've helped, however, all Cap could think was to just watch the X-Men more closely.

#16 Edited by allthatsgeek (127 posts) - - Show Bio

Hypocrite line of the year:

Hello Slim, killed anyone lately?

IDK, HAVE YOU?!

#17 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

#18 Posted by fodigg (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

So he has the power over reality itself and he can't think of a way to stop Xavier other than killing him?

#19 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@allthatsgeek said:

Hypocrite line of the year:

Hello Slim, killed anyone lately?

IDK, HAVE YOU?!

I lol'd.

@fodigg said:

@xeon1cs said:

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

So he has the power over reality itself and he can't think of a way to stop Xavier other than killing him?

Power and control are two different things. His power had doubled mere moments before.

#20 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@xeon1cs said:

@fodigg said:

What about when he killed Professor X?

What about it?

Professor X tried to mentally shut Cyclops down. Scott was forced to retaliate in self-defense. You'd think Xavier of all people would know you don't do that to a Phoenix Host. I guess Wolverine forgot to mention that to the Avengers as well.

So he has the power over reality itself and he can't think of a way to stop Xavier other than killing him?

"Think" while your mind is being driven by a cosmic entity.

#21 Posted by fodigg (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:

And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.

Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.

#22 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.

#23 Edited by fodigg (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.

Right, so it follows that he genuinely wanted the Phoenix, at least initially when all five got it, so he's responsible for any actions committed while empowered by the Phoenix Force whether it was influencing him or not.

Edit: If Scott got drunk off his ass and ran over Xavier in a car he'd be no less responsible for killing him, is my argument.

#24 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: No, he didn't ask for the power, Tony Stark accidentally gave it to him.

If you're drugged without your consent you're not liable for what you do under that drug's influence.

#25 Posted by aaunderoath (165 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.

Right, so it follows that he genuinely wanted the Phoenix, at least initially when all five got it, so he's responsible for any actions committed while empowered by the Phoenix Force whether it was influencing him or not.

Edit: If Scott got drunk off his ass and ran over Xavier in a car he'd be no less responsible for killing him, is my argument.

Exactly, except the same rules should apply to Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, Magik, Colossus, Namor, Magneto, Quicksilver, Spider-Woman, Pym, Venom, Kaine, etc. But they don't, every other person in the Marvel universe who is now a hero that has at one point or another been the cause for the lose of innocent lives, whether it be mind control, outside entity, or their own creation(ultron), they should be facing the same consequences as Cyclops. But they aren't Cyclops is the first person to take the rap for "not being of sound mind". Hell even Steve Rogers was "possessed" by Red Skull during Cap Reborn but a simple "whoa woops I wasn't in control" was good enough. Yet Cyclops isn't even posing a defense, HE accepts that stuff went down when he wasn't in control so he's doing his time, no complaints. He was right in that the Phoenix could jump start the mutant population and he was also right that the Avengers never helped them when they needed it.

#26 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:

And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.

Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.

Well, Cyclops claimed that something felt "off" when he only had 1/5th of the phoenix force. The Avengers actions (taking out Namor, Colossus, and Magik) gradually increased the amount of phoenix he had inside of him. While he took the rest of the Phoenix for himself AFTER he, unwillingly mind you, gained half of it.

#27 Edited by fodigg (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: No, he didn't ask for the power, Tony Stark accidentally gave it to him.

If you're drugged without your consent you're not liable for what you do under that drug's influence.

True, and that's what I would argue happened if I were Scott's legal counsel, but it could be countered the pursuit of additional power after that initial indicated quite clearly that he wanted the power and took it willingly, if not forcefully, and his own testimony would support that. Even if you argued that his desire for more power was influenced by the initial taste, it's not like addicts and alcoholics are given a pass when they go out for more drug to feed their habit. They're still culpable.

@aaunderoath said:

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@fodigg: Scott isn't making a defense for himself. His goal was to save his people, he did that. He's happy to take those consequences, justified or not, because he got what he wanted.

Right, so it follows that he genuinely wanted the Phoenix, at least initially when all five got it, so he's responsible for any actions committed while empowered by the Phoenix Force whether it was influencing him or not.

Edit: If Scott got drunk off his ass and ran over Xavier in a car he'd be no less responsible for killing him, is my argument.

Exactly, except the same rules should apply to Scarlet Witch, Wolverine, Magik, Colossus, Namor, Magneto, Quicksilver, Spider-Woman, Pym, Venom, Kaine, etc. But they don't, every other person in the Marvel universe who is now a hero that has at one point or another been the cause for the lose of innocent lives, whether it be mind control, outside entity, or their own creation(ultron), they should be facing the same consequences as Cyclops. But they aren't Cyclops is the first person to take the rap for "not being of sound mind". Hell even Steve Rogers was "possessed" by Red Skull during Cap Reborn but a simple "whoa woops I wasn't in control" was good enough. Yet Cyclops isn't even posing a defense, HE accepts that stuff went down when he wasn't in control so he's doing his time, no complaints. He was right in that the Phoenix could jump start the mutant population and he was also right that the Avengers never helped them when they needed it.

Not all those things are synonymous. I'd hardly rate mind control and unforeseen consequences with insanity, let alone willing possession. However, I would agree that Scarlet Witch getting a pass was ridiculous.

@soduh2 said:

@fodigg said:

@TheCrowbar: @soduh2:

And if he hadn't taken on the Phoenix--the full Phoenix anyway--willingly, you may have a case there. In fact, if I were Scott's lawyer I'd angle that the Avengers were responsible for infecting the Phoenix Five to begin with and from then on they weren't in control. But, Scott's not making that defense. He was perfectly happy to have the Phoenix and he pushed to get all of it. He's responsible for what happened to Charles.

Not that Wolverine isn't now as big a hypocrit as Beast, but you know, the writers hate the characters.

Well, Cyclops claimed that something felt "off" when he only had 1/5th of the phoenix force. The Avengers actions (taking out Namor, Colossus, and Magik) gradually increased the amount of phoenix he had inside of him. While he took the rest of the Phoenix for himself AFTER he, unwillingly mind you, gained half of it.

Not a bad point except that by pointing out he felt that he was being influenced even as early as when he'd just received 1/5th power and didn't seek help proves he was aware of the danger and is culpable.

---

Edit: To be clear to all three of you, I think the whole event was crap and that ever major character (e.g., Scott, Logan, Storm, Emma, Cap) was written horribly out of character. I'm just arguing that, as written, Scott is the clear bad guy who did bad stuff and is responsible for that. But I wouldn't defend the quality of that writing.

#28 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: "Not a bad point except that by pointing out he felt that he was being influenced even as early as when he'd just received 1/5th power and didn't seek help proves he was aware of the danger and is culpable."

Technically he did seek help when he created the echo of Jean Grey. But also by creating the echo, seeking help, it showed that he still lacked his humanity. Sort of an inception sort of way, Cyclops' methods of mantaining his humanity showed how far from it he was. Also looking at the dinner he and Emma were eating while the Avengers were fighting them.

#29 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

sorry the middle picture didnt show up

#30 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2767 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by mrmisanthrope (103 posts) - - Show Bio

As Cap got there, Emma told Cyclops that Cap would not listen no matter what he said, and had already made his mind and wanted to take Hope.

Cable also told Cyclops that war was unavoidable, that it was the only way.

#32 Posted by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

@allthatsgeek: Honestly....like Wolverine is some saint now.

#33 Posted by McKlayn (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

ok as a big big supporter of Cyclops ima try not to get into the who did what when where, Scott did some actions you could say he shouldn't depending on how you look at them. in the comic though HE ADMITS THAT, and accepts whatever punishment.

SO WHY ON EARTH can't they make Cap admit he was just as wrong, that he helped to push him over the top and that HE COULD OF handled things better.

and no not that lame line "We should of helped mutants more" cause as much as that is true, its not the only thing you screwed up on. For god sakes admit your at least 50 percent responsible for all the deaths caused by the Phoenix in the last battle, it's this type of writing of Him and Wolverine that makes me and many other readers absolutely hate them and not care what Cyclops did, he was right and they need to stfu.

#34 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn said:

ok as a big big supporter of Cyclops ima try not to get into the who did what when where, Scott did some actions you could say he shouldn't depending on how you look at them. in the comic though HE ADMITS THAT, and accepts whatever punishment.

SO WHY ON EARTH can't they make Cap admit he was just as wrong, that he helped to push him over the top and that HE COULD OF handled things better.

and no not that lame line "We should of helped mutants more" cause as much as that is true, its not the only thing you screwed up on. For god sakes admit your at least 50 percent responsible for all the deaths caused by the Phoenix in the last battle, it's this type of writing of Him and Wolverine that makes me and many other readers absolutely hate them and not care what Cyclops did, he was right and they need to stfu.

Because if Cap admits he was wrong, everything about their new flagship Uncanny Avengers title would crumble into pieces.

#35 Posted by iSummers (45 posts) - - Show Bio

cyclops was right

#36 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap was right also.

#37 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops will always win in a stare down!

#38 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless he is looking in a mirror.

#39 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

Cap was right also.

HAHAHAHA

Good one.

#40 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar said:

@Dernman said:

Cap was right also.

HAHAHAHA

Good one.

Truth can be funny.
#41 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@Dernman said:

Cap was right also.

HAHAHAHA

Good one.

Truth can be funny.

It can be. But Cap wasn't right in the least.

#42 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar said:

@Dernman said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@Dernman said:

Cap was right also.

HAHAHAHA

Good one.

Truth can be funny.

It can be. But Cap wasn't right in the least.

Except that he was.
#43 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Feel free to elaborate.

#44 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar: I've already been down that road multiple times.
#45 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman:

#46 Posted by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is noone on here pointing out how horribly out of character AVX was for almost everyone involved

Online
#47 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheCrowbar: Oh right because a biased fanmade picture that doesn't tell the whole story is suppose to mean something.
#48 Posted by Dernman (14714 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:

Why is noone on here pointing out how horribly out of character AVX was for almost everyone involved

That was pointed out several times.
#49 Posted by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: I'm talking about this thread

Online
#50 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Take a chill pill.It's a parody.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.