Scott Summers, Child Soldier

Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

A friend of mine updated me somewhat on the goings-on in the Marvel Universe the other day, and I was rather surprised to hear that Cyclops is in prison. Yes, he also mentioned why, but neither of us were really able to come up with any really good reason as to why he should be locked up- in a ruby-quartz insulated cell, no less (you'll note that Cyclops is locked up more securely than the Green Goblin ever was...). Which led to a mutual realization- Cyclops is a child soldier.

Some of you may argue that Cyclops was above an age at which he would be considered a child when the X-men were formed, but keep in mind that he'd been living with Professor X for quite some time beforehand. Scott Summers was trained, from an early age, to fight. He led a team of similarly young individuals into combat, acting as a field leader of sorts (keeping in mind that Professor X was, often, telepathically ordering the X-men in battle), and the group was often placed in life-threatening and otherwise extremely dangerous situations. Cyclops (and, for that matter, the rest of the X-men) was discouraged from communicating with individuals outside the X-men, which is important largely due to the fact that it's an extremely necessary part of indoctrination. The group participated in regular combat training, and were taught that they were in constant danger from the outside world and could only trust the professor (and one another).

The Geneva Convention prohibits the use and training of child soldiers under Article 77.2 of the Additional Protocol I of the conventions of 12 August 1949. Those of you who recall the short-lived KONY craze from a year or so back will probably be aware of the fact that the use of child soldiers is a war crime.

In summary, Scott Summers is (was?) a child soldier, and Professor X is a war criminal.

EDIT: Apparently Cyclops is no longer in prison. Woot.

#1 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

A little dated your info

Scott isn't in prison anymore, he is out recruiting mutants for his revolution, bt they have all been of age as long as the time warping chick was old enough to be at that club.

As for your point, realism in comics especially from the 60's is a bad idea lol, and Scott was doing the same thing on Utopia except he actually treated them like soldiers.

#2 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Oops, thanks for the correction, will amend the OP.

I assume you're referring to Sway? She wasn't in the same group as Cyclops; I'm afraid one of us is missing the point here.

#3 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

Not to mention that technically speaking, the whole 'mutants don't have the same rights as normal people' thing is basically the point of their existence. So even if this were brought up, it would probably be hand-waved by the human populace as 'does it matter if you fire a gun that's three years old or ten? A weapon is a weapon regardless of age.'

#4 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@Blood1991: Oops, thanks for the correction, will amend the OP.

I assume you're referring to Sway? She wasn't in the same group as Cyclops; I'm afraid one of us is missing the point here.

No not Sway a new mutant who appeared in All New X-Men. As for your point as much as I love Captain America if you commit a crime and aren't an Avenger you go to prison. You could say that Scott was raised to do this being a child soldier which yes he was, Xavier made alot of mistakes in recruiting kids, but his belief was that youth is being targeted as well as adults so they should be given the right to spread tolerance and help with his dream as well.

#5 Edited by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: Have you read the Dark Phoenix Saga? Jean Grey ate an entire solar system and didn't go to prison. Wolverine has killed god knows how many people and isn't in prison. Kativa Rao is responsible for the death of a number of people, including children, and hasn't gone to prison. I could go on and on...

Cyclops was imprisoned for things he did while posessed by the Phoenix Force, and normally that doesn't really count.

Scott Summers has one dream for mutantkind, and that's survival. He did what he thought needed to be done to acheive that 'dream'.

@JonSmith: Hm, true.

#6 Posted by McKlayn (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@Blood1991: Have you read the Dark Phoenix Saga? Jean Grey ate an entire solar system and didn't go to prison. Wolverine has killed god knows how many people and isn't in prison. Kativa Rao is responsible for the death of a number of people, including children, and hasn't gone to prison. I could go on and on...

Cyclops was imprisoned for things he did while posessed by the Phoenix Force, and normally that doesn't really count.

Scott Summers has one dream for mutantkind, and that's survival. He did what he thought needed to be done to acheive that 'dream'.

@JonSmith: Hm, true.

So was cable, like father like son i guess ;D

#7 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn: Technically I'm not really qualified to discuss Cable, but from what little of his stories I've read I'd have to agree.

#8 Posted by McKlayn (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: hes typically more often then not thought of as a born and breed soldier, Cyclops is typically forgotten in the whole idea. So i was more drawing from what is considered Common knowledge about cable and comparing it to how you pointed out a little know secret about his father. The two are very similar in just about every aspect, as well as Hope (although the hope character is far from developed on that level) are all three Child Soldiers, hell Even Rachel Summers to some point. The whole damn family :D

#9 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha, the bastardization of Charles Xavier continues.

#10 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn: Hm, fair point.

@John Valentine: Bastardization?

#11 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33899 posts) - - Show Bio

The OP has a good point, Id like to see that explored more

#12 Posted by McKlayn (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@McKlayn: Hm, fair point.

@John Valentine: Bastardization?

There was like a decade (starting around the Onslaught Saga ) were it seemed like marvel was intentially trying to ruin Professor Xavier's image in order to 'write' him out and push other characters into the leadership role.

#13 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

You kind of just need to give teen heroes a pass. They are a genre staple and for good reason.

#14 Edited by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn: You know what's truly awesome about the Onslaught saga? That scene where Jean Grey finds out Professor X has been in love with her literally since the very start of the X-men. Seriously, he admits it in the first issue. Her face is just priceless.

Also, have you heard of Vulcan? Or, for that matter, Krakoa?

#15 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah whenever people call Cyke out on sending students on missions and stuff they seem to forget that the Prof did it to.

#16 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Yes, thank you!

#17 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3614 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

I think at this point it's pretty well accepted that Xavier wasn't really the best teacher but, in his defence, he did keep the O5 from falling under the influence of someone worse. Keep in mind who else was recruiting around then: Magneto, Sebastion Shaw, Mystique, Sinister, and the super evil Canadian government.

And, yeah, the guy was super nuts back in those days (what with all the mind wipes and faking his own death for no reason), but under his watch the O5 never had to make the mistakes that Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Rogue, Wolverine or any of the other would be young heroes did. And look at the impact he eventually had on those characters. Wolverine gets it, he's trying to do the same thing, but he's got a whole team of X-men to protect his students, which actually is how Xavier did it with the new Mutants -he didn't even want Kitty to be on the X-men!

anyway, yeah, the O5 were technically child soldiers.. but, y'know, context.

Certainly he had more justification than, say, Batman or Green Arrow.. or Captain America..

#19 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: Nice picture, your point being?

@dangallant984 said:

I think at this point it's pretty well accepted that Xavier wasn't really the best teacher but, in his defence, he did keep the O5 from falling under the influence of someone worse. Keep in mind who else was recruiting around then: Magneto, Sebastion Shaw, Mystique, Sinister, and the super evil Canadian government.

And, yeah, the guy was super nuts back in those days (what with all the mind wipes and faking his own death for no reason), but under his watch the O5 never had to make the mistakes that Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Rogue, Wolverine or any of the other would be young heroes did. And look at the impact he eventually had on those characters. Wolverine gets it, he's trying to do the same thing, but he's got a whole team of X-men to protect his students, which actually is how Xavier did it with the new Mutants -he didn't even want Kitty to be on the X-men!

anyway, yeah, the O5 were technically child soldiers.. but, y'know, context.

Certainly he had more justification than, say, Batman or Green Arrow.. or Captain America..

I'd argue that the rest of the original five weren't child soldiers to the same degree that Cyclops was.

#20 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3614 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares:i dont know i just found the picture and thought it was weird that he thought his powers was too dangerous and would not want it one day and adult scott now would never think that way

#21 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: Hm, that's true. Interesting point.

#22 Posted by Vec (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: Nice picture, your point being?

@dangallant984 said:

I think at this point it's pretty well accepted that Xavier wasn't really the best teacher but, in his defence, he did keep the O5 from falling under the influence of someone worse. Keep in mind who else was recruiting around then: Magneto, Sebastion Shaw, Mystique, Sinister, and the super evil Canadian government.

And, yeah, the guy was super nuts back in those days (what with all the mind wipes and faking his own death for no reason), but under his watch the O5 never had to make the mistakes that Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Rogue, Wolverine or any of the other would be young heroes did. And look at the impact he eventually had on those characters. Wolverine gets it, he's trying to do the same thing, but he's got a whole team of X-men to protect his students, which actually is how Xavier did it with the new Mutants -he didn't even want Kitty to be on the X-men!

anyway, yeah, the O5 were technically child soldiers.. but, y'know, context.

Certainly he had more justification than, say, Batman or Green Arrow.. or Captain America..

I'd argue that the rest of the original five weren't child soldiers to the same degree that Cyclops was.

I might be wrong but isnt iceman the youngest of the 5, but regardless Prof X poured more responsibility on Scott that any other X-Man ever.

#23 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vec: you're right about Iceman.

but I think with Cyclops, it was more that he felt he needed to shoulder that responsibility more than the others.

#24 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vec: Correct. Iceman was 16, I believe.

@dangallant984: Yes and no. Xavier did place responsibility on Cyclops more than the others, which led him to feel the need to shoulder responsibility more than his teammates.

#25 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@Vec: Correct. Iceman was 16, I believe.

@dangallant984: Yes and no. Xavier did place responsibility on Cyclops more than the others, which led him to feel the need to shoulder responsibility more than his teammates.

I won't disagree with that, but you can see why a young Cyclops might feel that much more of a debt to Xavier than the others did, and therefore that much more of a responsibility.

#26 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

@Squares said:

@Vec: Correct. Iceman was 16, I believe.

@dangallant984: Yes and no. Xavier did place responsibility on Cyclops more than the others, which led him to feel the need to shoulder responsibility more than his teammates.

I won't disagree with that, but you can see why a young Cyclops might feel that much more of a debt to Xavier than the others did, and therefore that much more of a responsibility.

You bring up a very good point. Xavier either adopted Cyclops or merely allowed him to leave the orphanage he'd been in for years.

#27 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: yeah, that, but also a purpose. That's probably why he was the most zealous, he really didn't have anything going for him besides Xavier's faith.

#28 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

I brought this up over a year ago during my Cyclops blog post:

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/thecrowbar/the-crowbar-swings-who-is-cyclops/87-71332/

#29 Edited by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: Well, yes, but Cyclops was hardly alone in his purposelessness. Hell, Beast was disowned before coming to the school, if I recall correctly.

@TheCrowbar: Interesting. Have anything to add?

EDIT: Fun fact: this isn't the first post I've made about Cyclops, either.

#30 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: the Beast was his own man, and the first to leave, if I recall. Cyclops didn't leave until Storm made him.

#31 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: What does Beast's ragequitting Utopia have to do with anything?

#32 Edited by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

@Squares: the Beast was his own man, and the first to leave, if I recall. Cyclops didn't leave until Storm made him.

@Squares said:

@dangallant984: What does Beast's ragequitting Utopia have to do with anything?

I meant that he was the first to leave the school and the X-men, because he was the most independently minded. Y'know, back in the 60's.

#33 Posted by lorex (958 posts) - - Show Bio

That would be a great plot point to exploit in the future. For example in Wolverine and the X-Men (cause thats where the kids are) have someone from a UN Human Rights Council, not a anti-mutant biggot but a child rights advocate, incorruptable and dedicated. Have them come to investigate concerns that the school is training mutant children in the use of their powers to be used as child soldiers. To stoke the fire further you could have the original 5 or others be caught on camera fighting other mutants, the military, Avengers or someone else. Have it all end up court with Wolverine on trial. While not the most action packed it could be interesting and the anti-mutant elements around the would could certainly be weaved in

#34 Posted by Imperius_Rex (452 posts) - - Show Bio

Heck yeah he's a child soldier. Or was. But that's what makes him so great. He's been running offensive and defensive missions since he was a young boy. That's why I consider him easily one of the best leaders in the MU. and if people say that's what he was doing on utopia. Duh! Of course he was. He doesn't know any other way. He knows his race must be strong to survive. The mentality of a soldier.

#35 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: I'd disagree, but he was really just a comic relief character back then and didn't really get much attention back then.

#36 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: no way!!, I mean, in a way, they all were, but he was always the passionate one. And he was the first to leave.

#37 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: No, I'd definately say him and Iceman were usually the comic relief.

#38 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: I'm sure he quit within the first year, none of the others did.

#39 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: Methinks it would be beneficial to both of us to re-read some of the original run of the X-men. I know my memory's kind of rusty...

#40 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

haha! maybe...

I dunno, though; I just went back and read every X-men comic from the beginning about a year or so ago, and if I never read another Stan Lee comic again in my life, I think I'll be okay with that.

The whole thing, including subsequent titles and the original runs of both X-factor and Excaliber, took me just over a month and I'm pretty sure it caused some permanent brain damage.

#41 Posted by Squares (7485 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

haha! maybe...

I dunno, though; I just went back and read every X-men comic from the beginning about a year or so ago, and if I never read another Stan Lee comic again in my life, I think I'll be okay with that.

The whole thing, including subsequent titles and the original runs of both X-factor and Excaliber, took me just over a month and I'm pretty sure it caused some permanent brain damage.

I know what you mean! I did pretty much the same a little over two or three years ago (I just read what I could get my hands on, and skipped most of the Liefeld era). Brain damage is right- a lot of that stuff was just mind-numbing.

#42 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: I'd read most of them, from the 80's on, and stopped just after Whedon's run. Then, about two years ago, somebody gave me some pirate digital copies of every issue of every of every X-men serries, I'm talking the old backup stories from X-men Classics and everything., up to about the 500s, and I just totally devoured them. It's probably what brought me back in, round about Re-genesis.

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