Is Cyclops a mutant supremecist?

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#1 Edited by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops seems to be going further and further down the Magneto path. It's one thing to go to extremes to protect the mutants that are under his care, but why would he risk the destruction of Earth by the Phoenix in the hopes that Hope will be able to use it to create more mutants? Why is it so important that more mutants be born? While there is the possibility of mutants being born that can change the world for the better, any given mutant could be powerful enough to destroy the world. Why can't the mutants that exist already just live out their lives and let the mutants fade away? Could it be that Cyclops is becoming a human hater? Could it be that he has a plan for global mutant domination?

#2 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

Cyclops seems to be going further and further down the Magneto path. It's one thing to go to extremes to protect the mutants that are under his care, but why would he risk the destruction of Earth by the Phoenix in the hopes that Hope will be able to use it to create more mutants? Why is it so important that more mutants be born? While there is the possibility of mutants being born that can change the world for the better, any given mutant could be powerful enough to destroy the world. Why can't the mutants that exist already just live out their lives and let the mutant fade away? Could it be that Cyclops is becoming a human hater? Could it be that he has a plan for global mutant domination?

I'm going to say that everything that happened in this issue pretty much set the tone for Scott's team. If they're willing to go to extremes to save the world, the life of the dreaming celestial, and everyone on planet Earth I'm going to go ahead and say no they don't hate humans, nor does Scott in particular.

Also people are throwing around The Phoenix destroying earth argument around. however I just think it is just lazy writing.

As for the importance of the mutant race, well first off all the mutants that were lost were lost due to outside circumstances. They didn't just die out they were destroyed by an outside force. That's like asking why would you want your family back if they were murdered. That's to say that yes you love them and yes you miss them, but it's also about the lack of control you had, not to mention said murder that robbed you of what is essentially a big chunk of potential life.

Mutant births are both just like human births and different. Everyone has that particular piece of potential attached to us. We can make the world better or help in it's destruction. Mutants in some cases this is just a bit more literal seeing as the level of personal power they can accrue but in the end it's not like the same isn't true of humans in the Marvel U. There are many mutates that could give mutants a run for their money in destructive power, and that's not even pointing at being such as godlings, demons, magical practitioners, cosmic beings, and abstracts that are not human in some senses of the word.

If the opposite were true and humans were dying out, you know like AoA where there is literally one team of them left, should they just lie down and die because the mutants of that world think they should? Do the mutants have less of a right to live than we? Should the Avengers have the decision of what happens to a group of people that they are directly involved with making an endangered species? More so should the X-men trust that they have their best interests at heart when day in and day out they are hunted and murdered in their own homes without a word from said Avengers? Remember Civil War? Because I do. I remember Tony Stark trying to get the X-men to register while they were still in the process of burying a group of murdered "former mutants". And just because they were former mutants does that mean they suddenly ceased to be friends, family, lovers, and confidants? I understand that Emma wanted them out of the school, but her concerns were made valid in rather spectacular fashion with an RPG and a bus full of teenagers. It might be a skewed example, but it's also one that happened. Gee thanks Avengers we couldn't have done it without you. You know, get murdered and then have you try to boss us around in a way that has actually at one point been used to persecute us particularly as a social group (Mutant registration you say?).

The X-men have seen The Pit (literally even) and yet they keep on keeping on. They've saved the world more times than can be counted, and then they get spit on and murdered. If Scott did hate humans I could relate, I really could, but the fact of the matter is that no he doesn't. We've even seen a potential future Cyke in a world were mutants are relegated to interment camps and even dystopian future Scott is trying to work with humans to change the world. Heck he even got told by Dr. Doom of all people how by being so selfless people will never understand him and hate him for it.

That's not to say that all of this is set in stone and this is the way Marvel is gonna play it, but let's be honest even before all this zany AvX stuff we knew for a fact that Cyclops cares about people and that has hardly changed even if he's being made out to be the villain in the view of some.

#3 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3623 posts) - - Show Bio

To look at the human element involved in Cyclops' new stance; this is a man who lost his family, spent a large part of his childhood in an orphanage, found a new home and sense of validation as the leader of the original X-Men and has spent a large part of his adult life acting as the battlefield captain for Professor Xavier's dream. He found his raison d'être as being the leader of the X-Men. With the loss of so many mutants introducing the possibility of mutant extinction, he may be over-compensating for the sheer fact that his life's mission started as defending the emerging mutant species and he may feel like a failure with the species being pushed to the brink of oblivion. His recent actions may be the psychic cry of a man looking over the brink of his species collapse and the need to adopt extreme measures to maintain his sanity.

Do I think he's a mutant supremacist? No. He's just become more similar to an outlook closer to young Malcolm X that was once personified by Professor X/Dr. Martin Luther King's ideal of peaceful coexistence versus Magneto/young Malcom X's militant outlook. He resembles Magneto in this personality clash mainly because he is started to preemptively strike at targets rather than take the benign and defensive measures favored by Professor X.

#4 Posted by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer: I'm not saying all mutants should die now. I'm saying they should live out their lives and die of natural causes, and that years from now, when they have all gone, would the world be any better or worse without mutants in it? Of course Cyclops would want to protect the mutants that exist now, but is it worth the risk of another Apocalypse or Proteus type mutant coming into the world just so that a gene can be passed on?

@PhoenixoftheTides: That's my point exactly. Prof X is MLK and Magneto is Malcomb X, and Cyclops is becoming more and more Malcomb X. Magneto started out as a mutant who would protect his race by any means possible, and it seems as if Cyclops is going the same route.

#5 Edited by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

@Soulstealer: I'm not saying all mutants should die now. I'm saying they should live out their lives and die of natural causes, and that years from now, when they have all gone, would the world be any better or worse without mutants in it? Of course Cyclops would want to protect the mutants that exist now, but is it worth the risk of another Apocalypse or Proteus type mutant coming into the world just so that a gene can be passed on?

@PhoenixoftheTides: That's my point exactly. Prof X is MLK and Magneto is Malcomb X, and Cyclops is becoming more and more Malcomb X. Magneto started out as a mutant who would protect his race by any means possible, and it seems as if Cyclops is going the same route.

Still should we stop having children as humans because they might grow up to be dictators or murders? Hitler, Saddam Hussein, John Wayne Gacy, there are a ton of famous names and everyday you can look in the papers for not so famous ones. Mutants are people, saints and sinners just like the rest of us. They have more personal power in some cases, but then how many world leaders are sitting on Nukes that they could decide to use for any reason at all, at any moment? Not every mutant is a world buster, but likewise there are more than a few people whom aren't mutants that equally could very well be. And some of them are men in suits glad handing the voting public or ruling over them with iron fists.

And my point is yes, the world is worst off because it has lost a people. I'm saying that losing any culture is a loss because that is literally a way of life and a human experience that has come to an end for all time. What if you wake up tomorrow and you're the last person alive in your country? What if you're the last of your race? Your social group? Your generation? If we as humans can have remorse over whales or wolves or any other endangered creature, how then do we explain genocide of an entire people as if it's so different? It's not okay just because there are different cultures that might be similar, extinction is a big thing to stare down and we as humans might find that out the hard way. So yeah it's a big deal and bigger if you're the one looking down the gun barrel and this is happening to a group of people that were watching their population explode and that in a few generations very well might have been the end game of humanity or perhaps they and humanity eventually become one, either way that was the look of things and now they're walking on the graves of their friends while being dictated to by the very government that has failed to protect them in many cases and has been the source of their persecution in others.

#6 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3623 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

@PhoenixoftheTides: That's my point exactly. Prof X is MLK and Magneto is Malcomb X, and Cyclops is becoming more and more Malcomb X. Magneto started out as a mutant who would protect his race by any means possible, and it seems as if Cyclops is going the same route.

I disagree that Cyclops would protect his race by any means possible. I doubt he would condone the eradication of humans to save mutants the way Magneto used to condone, for example. The X-Men still defend innocent civilians, whether they are mutant or not. It is possible that he could go that route if the writers choose to, though. He did merge with Apocalypse for some time so they have a get out of jail free card to remove some of his guilt.

#7 Edited by tg1982 (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if Cyclops is a mutant supremacist, but he sure seems to be going down that same path Magneto has been down, only more whiney about it. (and I blame the writers)

#8 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't say he's a supremacist. But I think he will do what is necessary to save his fellow Mutants.

#9 Posted by Enosisik (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they should make him one. He's always had the boy scout, clean cut leader image but this side of him and the idea that he 'might' turn bad makes him far more interesting. I could see Cyclops and Emma and Colossus turning bad and starting their own evil mutant group to fight against Magneto's X-men for a year or so before everything goes back to normal.

#10 Edited by jrock85 (2850 posts) - - Show Bio

Character derailment.

#11 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85 said:

Character derailment.

Agree.
#12 Posted by tg1982 (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

Character derailment.

Personally I think they been doing it since Morrison's run way back when (really since when he "sacrificed" himself to Apocalypse...

Cyke used to be my favorite X-Man back in the 90's (when I first got into comics) and I even got a few old school back issues and the Essential X-Men starting with the Giant X-men #1.

#13 Posted by jrock85 (2850 posts) - - Show Bio

@tg1982: I think it mostly started with Fraction's run on Uncanny and its being perpetuated in this AvX monstrosity.

#14 Posted by tg1982 (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Fair enough. And to be fairit wasn't necessarily Morrison's run but just around that time/era (although he wasn't helping matters, IMHO) I felt that the whole Cable and Jean searching for Cycke mini was foreshadowing all this in a general way. When Jean hugs him after they find him and the narration says something like "But Cable knows anything touched by Apocalypse's evil won't be the same ever again" or something stupid like that, I was just thinking "great now they're goning to make him "edgy" and "dark", and then stopped reading X-Men and now Cyclops is "edgy" and "dark" (not necessarily from that mini) I knew that this direction was the way they were going with his character, and eventually I think he willbe the next "Magneto", I hope I'm wrong, because the thought makes me want to vomit.

#15 Posted by jrock85 (2850 posts) - - Show Bio

@tg1982 said:

@jrock85: Fair enough. And to be fairit wasn't necessarily Morrison's run but just around that time/era (although he wasn't helping matters, IMHO) I felt that the whole Cable and Jean searching for Cycke mini was foreshadowing all this in a general way. When Jean hugs him after they find him and the narration says something like "But Cable knows anything touched by Apocalypse's evil won't be the same ever again" or something stupid like that, I was just thinking "great now they're goning to make him "edgy" and "dark", and then stopped reading X-Men and now Cyclops is "edgy" and "dark" (not necessarily from that mini) I knew that this direction was the way they were going with his character, and eventually I think he willbe the next "Magneto", I hope I'm wrong, because the thought makes me want to vomit.

That's Marvel for ya.

#16 Posted by tg1982 (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Yeah. Thankfully Cap is back atleast. So I can still get good characterization (thanks to Brubaker). Hopefully once all the AvX stuff is over Cycke's character could be rebooted or something. (I can hope)

#17 Posted by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@Enosisik said:

I think they should make him one. He's always had the boy scout, clean cut leader image but this side of him and the idea that he 'might' turn bad makes him far more interesting. I could see Cyclops and Emma and Colossus turning bad and starting their own evil mutant group to fight against Magneto's X-men for a year or so before everything goes back to normal.

Where have you been for the past while?

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#18 Edited by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

Cyclops seems to be going further and further down the Magneto path. It's one thing to go to extremes to protect the mutants that are under his care, but why would he risk the destruction of Earth by the Phoenix in the hopes that Hope will be able to use it to create more mutants? Why is it so important that more mutants be born? While there is the possibility of mutants being born that can change the world for the better, any given mutant could be powerful enough to destroy the world. Why can't the mutants that exist already just live out their lives and let the mutant fade away? Could it be that Cyclops is becoming a human hater? Could it be that he has a plan for global mutant domination?

Why should he just let the mutants die out? That's asinine cause it goes against everything that Cyclops stands for. His whole life since the age of 15 was to protect mutantkind and hope for a better world for mutants and humans that is what he is trying to do but now since there are only 200 or less of his species he is trying to fight for survival at this point. It's like telling the Avengers to stop saving human lives cause a new super villain will just pop up to strike them down and this villain could be a planet destroyer himself and since there are billions of people in the world, it is highly likely that could happen. Mutants may be Cyclops' primary focus at this point and rightfully so, but he told Celestials straight up that Earth is his world to protect along the Dreaming Celestial.

His letter to humanity in UXM 11 settles your question. While Cyclops did make the threats to people in case they pushed him or threatened his kind like what he did to the Mayor after she was gonna sink Utopia and Cykes said he would kill her if she tried something like that. He says he lied about it, his bluff is gone.

So in short, is Cyclops a mutant supremacist? No.

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#19 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

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#20 Posted by jrock85 (2850 posts) - - Show Bio

Its best to just disregard everything that happens in AvX.

#21 Posted by Daycrawler (547 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@jrock85 said:

Character derailment.

Agree.

Disagree. It's just valid, long term character development that you happen not to like.

Cykes character has been changing and growing more complex and darker for years and it's been pretty consistently handled.

I like what's happening. They've taken a boy scout, one dimensional character, stuck in a personality development rut, and added some good layers of complexity to the point that he could either come back from the edge and be a more harder-edged, heroic Cyke of old, or tip over the edge and become a morally ambiguous 'villain'.

Character derailment would be like what Bendis has done to Marvel Boy over in Avengers. Taken a complex and interesting character and turn him into wallpaper for issues on end only to finally bring into a prominent role, but with few of his previous character traits/personality in tact. This kind of thing has definitely not happened to Cyke.

#22 Posted by KainScion (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

no, hes not there. yet. very close if you've been reading avx.

#23 Posted by daak1212 (7866 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#24 Posted by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me make it clear again that I am not saying all mutants should die. I'm saying what's the big deal if no new mutants are born. Of course Cyclops should do whatever he can to protect the existing mutants. But is it worth risking the destruction of all species for the multiplication of one? Would it be so terrible for Scott and Emma (or Jean) to grow old together with human children?

#25 Edited by JohnnyGat (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

Let me make it clear again that I am not saying all mutants should die. I'm saying what's the big deal if no new mutants are born. Of course Cyclops should do whatever he can to protect the existing mutants. But is it worth risking the destruction of all species for the multiplication of one? Would it be so terrible for Scott and Emma (or Jean) to grow old together with human children?

I think Scott is looking at it from an undecided future. I mean who are they to say that these 200 and the Lights will be the last mutants for the rest of time. No one can say that the 200 are going to be the last I mean just look at the Lights, were it not for Hope their powers would have gone haywire and caused more damage to those around them. Now let's imagine they accept dying out as the foreseeable "last" mutants what if these mutant activation starts happening again long after the Xmen are gone what would happen to them, who would these mutants turn to. By reviving the mutant population he's not just making more mutants he's preserving a culture one that is beneficial to future generations of possible mutants something to let them know that they're not alone and not only that the PF's power might also be able to stop these haywire activation that some of the lights have encountered and that alone is reason enough that Scott is doing this not because it's against humanity but for the mutants that have just "become" mutants. The thing is despite M-day we cannot completely rule out the existence of new mutants entirely and that's how I see what the Xmen see.

And this whole PF risk business is weak, Scott wants to control it, the Avengers wants to isolate Hope while trying to stop the PF, Logan believes that if he kills Hope the PF will just go away. Now the point is Scott isn't the only one risking the lives of the entire universe. Scott's justification is that though the PF is such a threat it has been to Earth before, even in alternate realities and one thing Scott would point out is that it never destroyed Earth. Okay now let's take a look at the Avengers, they would isolate Hope and Logan wants to kill Hope, now stop to think what if Hope really would be able to handle the Phoenix better than even Rachel, what if if Hope were dead the PF would just blast through earth or choose a host more unstable.

To use the PF in terms of the AvX storyline, yes one could come to the conclusion that Scott is becoming a mutant supremacist but it also means you have to accept that, that same threat one could also come to the conclusion that the Avengers are human supremacist not wanting to give Scott a chance to revive his people. I've made mention before that the only way that these two sides would steer clear from either elitist concept is to work together considering neither of their goals in dealing with the PF would harm the other (with a little secrecy of course).

#26 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Amen to that.

#27 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer said:

@ExtraLarge said:

Cyclops seems to be going further and further down the Magneto path. It's one thing to go to extremes to protect the mutants that are under his care, but why would he risk the destruction of Earth by the Phoenix in the hopes that Hope will be able to use it to create more mutants? Why is it so important that more mutants be born? While there is the possibility of mutants being born that can change the world for the better, any given mutant could be powerful enough to destroy the world. Why can't the mutants that exist already just live out their lives and let the mutant fade away? Could it be that Cyclops is becoming a human hater? Could it be that he has a plan for global mutant domination?

I'm going to say that everything that happened in this issue pretty much set the tone for Scott's team. If they're willing to go to extremes to save the world, the life of the dreaming celestial, and everyone on planet Earth I'm going to go ahead and say no they don't hate humans, nor does Scott in particular.

Also people are throwing around The Phoenix destroying earth argument around. however I just think it is just lazy writing.

As for the importance of the mutant race, well first off all the mutants that were lost were lost due to outside circumstances. They didn't just die out they were destroyed by an outside force. That's like asking why would you want your family back if they were murdered. That's to say that yes you love them and yes you miss them, but it's also about the lack of control you had, not to mention said murder that robbed you of what is essentially a big chunk of potential life.

Mutant births are both just like human births and different. Everyone has that particular piece of potential attached to us. We can make the world better or help in it's destruction. Mutants in some cases this is just a bit more literal seeing as the level of personal power they can accrue but in the end it's not like the same isn't true of humans in the Marvel U. There are many mutates that could give mutants a run for their money in destructive power, and that's not even pointing at being such as godlings, demons, magical practitioners, cosmic beings, and abstracts that are not human in some senses of the word.

If the opposite were true and humans were dying out, you know like AoA where there is literally one team of them left, should they just lie down and die because the mutants of that world think they should? Do the mutants have less of a right to live than we? Should the Avengers have the decision of what happens to a group of people that they are directly involved with making an endangered species? More so should the X-men trust that they have their best interests at heart when day in and day out they are hunted and murdered in their own homes without a word from said Avengers? Remember Civil War? Because I do. I remember Tony Stark trying to get the X-men to register while they were still in the process of burying a group of murdered "former mutants". And just because they were former mutants does that mean they suddenly ceased to be friends, family, lovers, and confidants? I understand that Emma wanted them out of the school, but her concerns were made valid in rather spectacular fashion with an RPG and a bus full of teenagers. It might be a skewed example, but it's also one that happened. Gee thanks Avengers we couldn't have done it without you. You know, get murdered and then have you try to boss us around in a way that has actually at one point been used to persecute us particularly as a social group (Mutant registration you say?).

The X-men have seen The Pit (literally even) and yet they keep on keeping on. They've saved the world more times than can be counted, and then they get spit on and murdered. If Scott did hate humans I could relate, I really could, but the fact of the matter is that no he doesn't. We've even seen a potential future Cyke in a world were mutants are relegated to interment camps and even dystopian future Scott is trying to work with humans to change the world. Heck he even got told by Dr. Doom of all people how by being so selfless people will never understand him and hate him for it.

That's not to say that all of this is set in stone and this is the way Marvel is gonna play it, but let's be honest even before all this zany AvX stuff we knew for a fact that Cyclops cares about people and that has hardly changed even if he's being made out to be the villain in the view of some.

@god_spawn said:

@ExtraLarge said:

Cyclops seems to be going further and further down the Magneto path. It's one thing to go to extremes to protect the mutants that are under his care, but why would he risk the destruction of Earth by the Phoenix in the hopes that Hope will be able to use it to create more mutants? Why is it so important that more mutants be born? While there is the possibility of mutants being born that can change the world for the better, any given mutant could be powerful enough to destroy the world. Why can't the mutants that exist already just live out their lives and let the mutant fade away? Could it be that Cyclops is becoming a human hater? Could it be that he has a plan for global mutant domination?

Why should he just let the mutants die out? That's asinine cause it goes against everything that Cyclops stands for. His whole life since the age of 15 was to protect mutantkind and hope for a better world for mutants and humans that is what he is trying to do but now since there are only 200 or less of his species he is trying to fight for survival at this point. It's like telling the Avengers to stop saving human lives cause a new super villain will just pop up to strike them down and this villain could be a planet destroyer himself and since there are billions of people in the world, it is highly likely that could happen. Mutants may be Cyclops' primary focus at this point and rightfully so, but he told Celestials straight up that Earth is his world to protect along the Dreaming Celestial.

His letter to humanity in UXM 11 settles your question. While Cyclops did make the threats to people in case they pushed him or threatened his kind like what he did to the Mayor after she was gonna sink Utopia and Cykes said he would kill her if she tried something like that. He says he lied about it, his bluff is gone.

So in short, is Cyclops a mutant supremacist? No.

This, all of this. Cyclops will never get the credit he deserves, at the end of the day he's as important to the Marvel Universe as Cap and Iron Man. He's exceeded Xavier in every way. Is he more militant? Yes. Is he more willing to do what needs to be done than more reserved leaders like Cap? Absolutely? Is he a mutant supremacist? No.

#28 Posted by oviouslyjeangrey (400 posts) - - Show Bio

I think he just doesn't want his race to die and if the phoenix destroyed the earth wouldn't it destroy the little mutants that are left.

#29 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure he's exceeded Xavier.

#30 Posted by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

Not sure he's exceeded Xavier.

I am ;).

#31 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@ReVamp said:

Not sure he's exceeded Xavier.

I am ;).

That would imply he's followed Xavier's dream and done it better than him, which he hasn't by any stretch of means.

#32 Posted by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@ReVamp said:

Not sure he's exceeded Xavier.

I am ;).

That would imply he's followed Xavier's dream and done it better than him, which he hasn't by any stretch of means.

Perhaps, but Xavier's dream became just that, a faded dream, the moment M-Day happened. I don't believe for a second Xavier would have been able to make the kind of calls Cyclops has made to keep the mutant race from being wiped out entirely, he's too much of an idealist. Don't get me wrong, Xavier deserves tremendous credit, he founded the X-Men and trained Scott to succeed him as best he could (with some very poor moral choices thrown in, but hey he's only human). At the end of the day though, the student has surpassed the master.

#33 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Perhaps, but Xavier's dream became just that, a faded dream, the moment M-Day happened. I don't believe for a second Xavier would have been able to make the kind of calls Cyclops has made to keep the mutant race from being wiped out entirely, he's too much of an idealist. Don't get me wrong, Xavier deserves tremendous credit, he founded the X-Men and trained Scott to succeed him as best he could (with some very poor moral choices thrown in, but hey he's only human). At the end of the day though, the student has surpassed the master.

All of which means that Cyclops is a leader which is better for the situation at hand. The two of them have two very different things in mind, which affects the leadership style that each of the two have. I don't think you can compare one to the other, taking into account how different the situations are/were when each of them was a leader.

#34 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Perhaps, but Xavier's dream became just that, a faded dream, the moment M-Day happened. I don't believe for a second Xavier would have been able to make the kind of calls Cyclops has made to keep the mutant race from being wiped out entirely, he's too much of an idealist. Don't get me wrong, Xavier deserves tremendous credit, he founded the X-Men and trained Scott to succeed him as best he could (with some very poor moral choices thrown in, but hey he's only human). At the end of the day though, the student has surpassed the master.

All of which means that Cyclops is a leader which is better for the situation at hand. The two of them have two very different things in mind, which affects the leadership style that each of the two have. I don't think you can compare one to the other, taking into account how different the situations are/were when each of them was a leader.

One succeeded the other as commanding leader of the X-Men, it's really that simple. Just because Cyclops' way of leading is different than Xavier's, and the situations they led in are different, doesn't mean you can't draw a reasonable comparison between the two. Cyclops still believes in Xavier's dream, he's made that quite clear more than once in recent memory, the survival of the mutant species is what's more at stake at the present time. I don't believe Xavier would have been able to see that were he still in charge, which is arguably one of the reasons he has been so accepting of Scott taking command, he knows he's the better person for the job now.

That doesn't mean that Xavier would be better suited to going back to being leader of the X-Men once mutants are no longer endangered, I firmly believe Cyclops would STILL be better suited to lead. Xavier's time has passed, his students are the future.

#35 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

One succeeded the other as commanding leader of the X-Men, it's really that simple. Just because Cyclops' way of leading is different than Xavier's, and the situations they led in are different, doesn't mean you can't draw a reasonable comparison between the two. Cyclops still believes in Xavier's dream, he's made that quite clear more than once in recent memory, the survival of the mutant species is what's more at stake at the present time. I don't believe Xavier would have been able to see that were he still in charge, which is arguably one of the reasons he has been so accepting of Scott taking command, he knows he's the better person for the job now.

Yes, but they aren't working towards the same goal. Scott may believe in the dream, but right now he's worried about the Mutant race's survival.

That doesn't mean that Xavier would be better suited to going back to leading the X-Men once mutants are no longer endangered, I firmly believe Cyclops would STILL be better suited.

But until the this happens, I won't draw comparisons to say that one is better than the other. They're different and I'll leave it at that.

#36 Posted by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

One succeeded the other as commanding leader of the X-Men, it's really that simple. Just because Cyclops' way of leading is different than Xavier's, and the situations they led in are different, doesn't mean you can't draw a reasonable comparison between the two. Cyclops still believes in Xavier's dream, he's made that quite clear more than once in recent memory, the survival of the mutant species is what's more at stake at the present time. I don't believe Xavier would have been able to see that were he still in charge, which is arguably one of the reasons he has been so accepting of Scott taking command, he knows he's the better person for the job now.

Yes, but they aren't working towards the same goal. Scott may believe in the dream, but right now he's worried about the Mutant race's survival.

That doesn't mean that Xavier would be better suited to going back to leading the X-Men once mutants are no longer endangered, I firmly believe Cyclops would STILL be better suited.

But until the this happens, I won't draw comparisons to say that one is better than the other. They're different and I'll leave it at that.

Fine by me.

#37 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: :)

#38 Posted by lorex (958 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say how militant or mutant supremecist he becomes depends entirely on how many mutants there are in the world. He is not a mutant supremecist not but he does see it as his duty to protect mutants from extinction. If the pressure is taken off and over time more mutants are born/revealed then he will probabley will not become any darker and probably mellow some. If things get worse and mutants are not only killed but become actively hunted by the government then he could go full tilt Magneto and begin to view the world strictly through an us or them filter, taking whatever steps he deems necessary to save mutants. I guess time will tell.

#39 Posted by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe the whole point of AvX is for Scott to feel so betrayed by the Avengers and humanity in general that he turns villian, and then the Extinction team becomes the new Brotherhood.

#40 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

Just found this and had to post it :)

#41 Edited by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

Maybe the whole point of AvX is for Scott to feel so betrayed by the Avengers and humanity in general that he turns villian, and then the Extinction team becomes the new Brotherhood.

No, this is wrong for plenty of reasons,

  • Scott is feeling about as betrayed as he is going to get right now cause of the Avengers hence the fighting. The only way they would drive him either further is by killing Hope, Emma or another wide cast of mutants which is not something the Avengers will do as it would be out of character.
  • Scott isn't about killing heroes either. He may disagree with the stance of the Avengers but he is not attempting to slaughter them like cattle nor does he condone the killing of bad guys unless extremely necessary. And we have to wait to see how this "no more Avengers" solicit thing plays out cause due to solicitation synopses there are still Avengers fighting.
  • He already stated in his press release that he lied about all his threats, go figure.
  • The Avengers are not about ridding the world of mutants cause the X-Men are heroes.
  • X-Men are one of Marvel's biggest franchises and Gillen has been writing them as one of the best books that is being shipped out. No way is Marvel going to ruin that. Emma and Scott are also one of the biggest couples making the series even more popular. Marvel may have subpar writers at times but they aren't stupid about turning away a cash cow.
  • They are all heroes. Scott may go nuts one day but that doesn't mean the rest of the X-Men will. Emma is no longer a villain, Magneto is no longer a villain and the same goes for the rest. They were brought up on certain ideas and even on the brink of extinction they are still fighting the good fight (not technically now since this is a cheap Civil War like event.) . Cyclops may be a bit darker now and will kill bad guys when necessary and if all else fails, but guess what? So will Cap which he has done before.
Moderator
#42 Posted by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

I admit it's unlikely, but of the extinction roster, only Cyclops, Storm and Hope have not been at least slightly villianous in the past. Hope is still a bit of a wild card (and potentially not around post:AvX). Given the pressure that Cyclops is under, it is easy to imagine that this team could go down a darker path, especially with Magneto as the eager counselor.

#43 Posted by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge said:

I admit it's unlikely, but of the extinction roster, only Cyclops, Storm and Hope have not been at least slightly villianous in the past. Hope is still a bit of a wild card (and potentially not around post:AvX). Given the pressure that Cyclops is under, it is easy to imagine that this team could go down a darker path, especially with Magneto as the eager counselor.

I think they are as dark as they are gonna get. And Magneto isn't sitting there by Scott's ear whispering sweet nothings about a could be better world.

Moderator
#44 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@ExtraLarge said:

I admit it's unlikely, but of the extinction roster, only Cyclops, Storm and Hope have not been at least slightly villianous in the past. Hope is still a bit of a wild card (and potentially not around post:AvX). Given the pressure that Cyclops is under, it is easy to imagine that this team could go down a darker path, especially with Magneto as the eager counselor.

I think they are as dark as they are gonna get. And Magneto isn't sitting there by Scott's ear whispering sweet nothings about a could be better world.

Quite the opposite actually, in Children's Crusade he made it VERY clear he didn't want Scott to become like him when Cyclops was demanding the Scarlet Witch's head.

#45 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

Logical conclusion really , the marvel mutants have had their share of oppression at the hands of humans that exceeds real world racism (did nazis, gay bashers or islamophobic pr!ck ever use giant robots to wipe them out in broad daylight). Cyke has been saving humans from the moment of his character conception, did he get any thanks? nooo.... just bricks and beer bottles smashed at his face. It is good that he decides to go aggro on those ungrateful saps.

btw for some reason I find disarmed frost to be hot, where is that from and are there any pics?

#46 Edited by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

btw for some reason I find disarmed frost to be hot, where is that from and are there any pics?

That's quite odd IMO but I'm not going to pass judgement on someone cause different people have different things. Uncanny X-Men volume 2 issues 1-3. She loses her arm in issue 1. That specific image is Uncanny X-Men #3

Moderator
#47 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Thank you very much kind sir, I appreciate your help

Hotness indeed, I used to hate her characterization but there is something about badass injured women I can't resist

#48 Posted by God_Spawn (38292 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: I'm glad I could help. The new Uncanny X-Men has been my favorite series so far. It shouldn't disappoint if you choose to pick it up.

Moderator
#49 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by DATNIGGA (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

@ExtraLarge: Magneto was pissed at humanity so he randomly killed humans, attacked country's ect.. he was a terrorist. Cyclops is not a terrorist hes a leader how simply wants to protect his people each leader has there differences...

Magneto: Vengeful blood lusted terrorist

Result? he was feared hated & killed alot of people

Professor x: Pacifistic leader, activist

Result? even though he did good things many mutants still died left and right

Cyclops: leader ,activist but... if you blow up, attack or kill any of his people he will retaliate & hit you with the full force of the extinction team

Result? mutants are still hated.. but people know not to mess with Utopia

you see... the mutant race is almost extinct. cyclops & the x men have saved the world as many times as the avengers if not more than them but still dont get the respect they so rightfully deserve. he saves humanity, humans kill his people. hes at the point where this can no longer be excepted. he protects humans as well but his race is a #1 Priority & if his people get attack he will retaliate & has a right to just like the US would attack someone for hurting innocent Americans

its harsh but it has to be done.. sentential's , purifiers, operation zero tolerance Osborn... they have to many enemies to sit around and play the pacifistic superhero role

is he like magneto? nope hes just tired of people's crap & willing to protect his race at all costs

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